NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[HitAlt]

It's bad enough to get lynched.
And just to be sure - I DO NOT CLAIM POWER.
I just dislike anyone speculating PRs out loud as it never helps town.

[brassherald]

It's bad enough to get lynched.
And just to be sure - I DO NOT CLAIM POWER.
I just dislike anyone speculating PRs out loud as it never helps town.

So, just to be clear, He-Man is not your main?

[Inferno390]

Yeah, like
Hit, I’m gonna be blunt. Your playstyle screams scum. Tonally, it does not feel like it comes from a town stance, and the way you’ve been read weak is driving me up a wall.
But I am acutely aware that lynchbait is a thing. And I know when to back down.
Plus, this whole dramonic exchange... really bothers me.
You’re not off my naughty list yet. But:
VOTE: dramonic

P-edit: I think that dramonic means you’re a scum PR.
But either way, it’s a real weaksauce excuse for his read on Duck. It sounds like it was pulled out of left field.

[Inferno390]

To be clear, a lot of that last post was aimed @Hit.

[brassherald]

I think Scum PR being protected by a goon is kind of dumb. All people do is think like, "Hey, this person is important delay their lynch a minute", then. Maybe duck is just not scum reading a person who we don't have mod information on?

Always consider the possibilities, and consider this. PR is less important than having part of your team town read for scum, if the scum is smart.

[HitAlt]

Yes.
Also no, but yes.
Brass is so towny. MoI too. Pikachu is either town here or their scumrange is way over what I though it was. I've read their games now too, and what I remember the best have been towngames with similarities to this.
Ausuka and Duck I'm still very suspicious of, but it's something between paranoia and the fact that neither of them has been posting as much as I think they normally "should". But as discussed, their alignments should be clear D2/D3 so not worried about them yet.

We really have a solid chance to just pick this game apart after a few flips.

[Ausuka]

VOTE: No Lynch

looking back at it I think this post is towny? The discussion going on up to this point wasn't really game-relevant and I think this provokes discussion whereas mafia would be satisfied with the gamestate as is.

at least in town!elbirns world he is reaction testing but the question I would ask is, let me know if you get anything useful? You generally don’t

this does look kinda awkward and waffly to me, on a reread? profii, what were you trying to say here?

Inferno feels genuine.

Also, I find it amusing that people are saying that Rask’s vote generates no discussion while we’re sitting here literally discussing it.

And yes ^ this is absolutely true and also makes me feel good about Inferno.

oshit xyzzy are you town this time?

tw why did you townread xyzzy from what they posted?

Agreed. In my onion I think the first reaction test (elbirn) is fine but the second one (rask) a bit LAMIST especially considering he never really followed up on it other than his read on inferno.
VOTE: rask

I still hate this and it still seems like a completely made up reason to hop onto Rask.

Tonereading profi's 86 and 114 as a bit defensive.

This also seems fake to me? Like, tonereading as x alignment is normal. The fact that Sky talked about tonereading it as a quality (defensiveness) and added "a bit" to soften it makes it look faked.

I like 87 for not jumping to conclusions I guess. We're supposed to get out of RVS but Inferno says this isn't a damning issue for now which is true. I don't think calling the entrance out is scummy, as it generates discussion and a seasoned player would know that the arguments formed in RVS are weak (so it's hard for scum to really push a mislynch). Correct?

In that case I think Elbirn would know that. If inferno or Profii is scum this could be Elbirn trying to grant him some credit but apart from that idk what the scum benefit of opening like this is.

In short yay we're out of RVS but I have no reason to believe either of those 3 is hard scum right now

I think this is weird tonally and I don't like it. The fact that he asked "correct?" for his opinion is really strange and I think it's trying to make himself look towny and uninformed- I don't see why town would ask something like that. The top part, "I like x i guess but y says z which is true." is also off. Looking at another town early game from HWS (https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go) this seems very different.

I go to bed and literally the entire world posts while I'm asleep. LITERALLY!

Serious question to everyone, can anyone read profii? Because I always scum read him and its happening again, and I know I can't read him.

Also, HitAlt, am I one of the people you have played with in the past?

I dunno why but I get that a lot - I tend to stick to things that are factual or logical and people tend to be really scared of it but idk why.

for example, no lynching vote is a bad play as it is against our only way of killing scum. It's undisputable, it's not LAMIST as dave said, I'm just highlighting something that people were not talking about to get people to discuss it.

then a wagon formed on Rask - I think we will find opportunistic scum in there, but I'm just popping by on my lunch break so I'll check the VC later.

this feels genuine.

I'm done for today, I can continue and hopefully finish rereading tomorrow.

[profii]

For that 82 quote
If someone is reaction testing by post 82 maybe it could have been scum perpetrating as “I’m so obviously trying to scum hunt, look at me catching them out here” - I don’t think anyone is going to slip from it particularly so early in the game

Elbirns gone completely off my radar so tbh I’d forgotten. He should post more

[Raskolnikov]

Ok am I the only one still waiting for hitalt to like substantiate his uberstrong scumreads
I guess dramonic scum from early post and now pr thing
Skygazer scum still can't find anything why in the iso to that read

but once you turn that interrogation-style lamp towards their faces, they start to make more and more mistakes with their trajectory..

why is it so hard to go into some details or specifics here. I feel like it should be easiest thing in the world

blows my mind people are even talking pretty much everything else about hitalt other than being interested in this (except for MoI I guess)

Hitalt are you missing all the prompts to do this or are just choosing not to?

[Raskolnikov]

except dramonic pr thing is wrong because in context it would refer to scum pr

[HitAlt]

Hitalt are you missing all the prompts to do this or are just choosing not to?

No.
Absent-minded because of IRL.
Tired all the time too.
It took me more than I ever thought possible to make that one longer post.
I'll try to make another tomorrow.

[Raskolnikov]

writing an extremely barebones one or two sentences why dram or sky is scum should literally take 1 minute if you feel that strongly on the read
the fact that it's like pulling teeth to get substance or specifics on your strongest reads when you keep speaking to there being a mountain of evidence and people should sheep you doesnt make any sense to me

[Raskolnikov]

IDK what's going on this game
I feel like most people I townread earlier starting lurking and push on like gutreads and using loose associations
I need logic and cases and things I can follow

dramonic is like one of the few people I think I can actually somewhat follow why their voting
dramonic scumreads HA afaik because hit spent his time on like baseless speculation and self defense instead of having any substance to his scumreads and I think that's actually just true.

case against dramonic seems to be his judgments are too easy or exaggerated and so trying to put a scum agenda onto everything

small element I agree with is when dramonic says things like duck is gaining scumpoints it is easy to just say things like that. in context though duck defending hit based on their game isn't really right either though given hit was actually backing up his points and reads in that game
dramonic idk because since if the slots hes been going hard on are even partially scum hes actually been super protown and they're more or less what im looking at too. flipside if not the case I think he doesn't have to be doing what's he's doing putting himself out there either (unless cwing flub)

[Skygazer]

Tonereading profi's 86 and 114 as a bit defensive.

This also seems fake to me? Like, tonereading as x alignment is normal. The fact that Sky talked about tonereading it as a quality (defensiveness) and added "a bit" to soften it makes it look faked.

Not sure what you mean about tonereading as a quality? I can say that that wasn't meant to soften anything, more to point out that profii wasn't being full blown defensive, just a bit. In hindsight though it just looks like he was trying to get information out of Gus which is NAI to me.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: The worst
I think TW defending the fuck out of hitalt and glossing over literally everything there is bad regardless of hitalts alignment. though I have extra concern is TW potentially whiteknighting a hitalt town and duck feeling justified defending as such on the basis of knowing he's town and like dismissing hitalt scum and hitalt wagon out of hand.
I read that game they played and hitalt here really isnt very similar to hitalt there, hitalt there actually went into detail when pressed on his scumreads and made convincing meta+tonal arguments
when I read that game it did blindside me a bit how strong hitalt were there and I did think ok hitalt should get some space in 814, but getting back into this game its even more clear how much nothing hes doing here in comparison and if anything expectation should be higher (though it's tempting strong meta judgment on that 1 game sample size not necessarily reliable either though)

Also I feel like he's kinda complacent here. impression is he's pointing things out but not actually scumhunting

[Skygazer]

If dram was trying to point out PRs then that's really bad. I'm not seeing why people are assuming he means scum power role? The post is rather unclear in that regard (at least to me).

[Raskolnikov]

inb4 "why not vote hitalt"

[Raskolnikov]

If dram was trying to point out PRs then that's really bad. I'm not seeing why people are assuming he means scum power role? The post is rather unclear in that regard (at least to me).

its a response to 943, first sentence, I missed it at first too

[Skygazer]

Okay yeah that makes sense, completely missed that.

[Chickadee]

Hitalt are you missing all the prompts to do this or are just choosing not to?

No.
Absent-minded because of IRL.
Tired all the time too.
It took me more than I ever thought possible to make that one longer post.
I'll try to make another tomorrow.

When you do that, could you answer my question to you as well?

[dramonic]

We have a competing wagon in flubs,

HA could be a good PR

, TW might just be bad at scum.
Those are three valid reasons (albeit the third might not be I dont know the guy besides site chat)

If you ever thought I was a town-PR, you should never say something like this out loud..!
VOTE: dramonic - my mind is actually made at this point I think.

There's no fucking way you

really

thought I meant town-pr

@inferno: You're asking me to justify TW's bad play. I can only speculate on the reason behind it.

[Inferno390]

No, I am asking you to justify associating Duck with Hit given his play. So far all of your responses don’t actually hold water, so

[dramonic]

I did, several times. The fact youve got a confbias doesn't make things not there.
There's no logical reason for the defense and when confronted about it he literally went "nah".
What game are you even reading?

[dramonic]

Im gonna take a step back for now cuz im all out of chill from you two muffins

[Flubbernugget]

inb4 "why not vote hitalt"

There's some actual veracity to this given you are aware of the looking deadline and are voting a vanity wagon