NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Ausuka]

i think i'm going to stop being lazy right about now

[Taly]

Also, it only takes a question and I'll elaborate on reads/a read.

[dramonic]

Thank you for the textbook example of "caught for the wrong reason" Taly. We'll put you in the wiki

[Raskolnikov]

Need VC about now, though gist of it looks like HA and dramonic are lead wagons and flub kind of third, potentially actually no longer viable with deadline.
I'd definitely lynch HA or flub over dramonic here FTR.

Reads like some of what dramonic is getting wagoned over is for saying hit was PR when he was actually talking about scum PR and people either read or don't care when pointed out (bad sign on any wagon imo)
Also from where I'm at dramonic's push on hitalt is more than justified but people are scumreading him for it. Unless it's more the format or how he does it but yeah.

I really don't like hitalt treating what his main interest should be in explaining into his scumreads like

as if it's work he has to do and has been putting off (I think town should want to do it

and viewing it like a pain in the butt is more likely of a scum pov).

Rather his focus has almost entirely giving townreads in a reactive (logic around wagon on him) sense, going into them instead of scumreads and mostly appealing to not be lynched. Problem is I've seen this approach from scum trying to save themselves, it's more a super heavy diplomatic focus. I think town tend more to try to convince people of where their actually coming from or delineate their scum reads such that if they do get lynched you can tell people to follow or judge them on their own merit, less about survival and more about getting the points across for the greater wincon. Scumreading on like 948 suggests he isn't even paying attention to dramonic and reading his posts in context, if you do you can't walk away saying that's what dramonic actually said there, but then not commenting since that was pointed out either. A distinction is I can understand missing it from most people but hitalt should have read the exchange to give a hard scumread judgment based on it and should've followed it in general as something from his top scumreads. My feeling is hitalt just gave hard scumreads on sky and dramonic

but hasn't actually really been following what they've been doing this game any more than in the loosest sense possible.

[Raskolnikov]

VOTE: HitAlt
L-3, 4 or 2 I think. Need VC but definitely it's l-1 or hammer.
Inferno unvoted to go to dram so wagon is not as big as I thought earlier.

[Raskolnikov]

*definitely it's not

[Inferno390]

@Rask: I have not mentioned that at all in my push on dramonic. Niether has Taly. How are you coming to this conclusion on the wagon?

[Raskolnikov]

Impression is 1042 response to profii is saying it's bad, though maybe he was just talking in general

I actually townread you but I think hit's probably scum and dramonic sees similar as me

Actually have to go now so I can't really read ISOs but can you post what you think the "smoking gun" is on dramonic for you

[Raskolnikov]

@MOD (Or Aristo) please VC

I'm probably phoneposting rest of day

[Flubbernugget]

I completely missed that there was a dramonic wagon

[HitAlt]

I really don't like hitalt treating what his main interest should be in explaining into his scumreads like as if it's work he has to do and has been putting off (I think town should want to do it and viewing it like a pain in the butt is more likely of a scum pov).

And it benefits scum!Hit immensely to openly admit it..?
If you want to lynch me, call it policy and just do it.
Don't call me scum because I've been too lazy to wall on a computer after a workstretch every day.
I could've just as well NOT played D1 the way I started, if I just wanted to lay back and "fly under the radar".
I chose to try and generate discussion - I chose to do it while putting myself to the frontline.
I don't regret it at all because if I get lynched it's my own fault for not finding the combination of time and energy to towntell.

[Inferno390]

@Rask: It’s a combination of
1) The lack of an actual read on Duck other than defending Hit. And the entire “read” is based on mere speculation on why scum!Duck would do such a thing, none of which are any good. It’s a really weak read that dram is pushing way too hard.
This is paired with 2) the apparent reversal on Duck, where for most of the game he either only has good things to say about Duck or nothing to say at all. And then the moment Duck starts doing something that dramonic doesn’t agree with he becomes confscum. It doesn’t make sense and is honestly a pretty scummy move.
3) The entire confbias coming from every one of his scumreads. Taly, TW, Hit. Taly’s is the worst of the three (he’s more or less said he’s ignoring Taly’s posts because davesaz was scum), but TW and Hit are bad too. dramonic hasn’t even considered the fact that he might be wrong about Hit. And the fact that Duck disagrees automatically makes him scum. That’s ridiculous play, especially since dramonic has nothing to back up his read on Duck.
4) dramonic’s first response to my pressure this entire time has been to blow me off and be baity and nasty. That is not a town response to pressure.

[Taly]

Thank you for the textbook example of "caught for the wrong reason" Taly. We'll put you in the wiki

Please tell me why and how I'm even caught in the first place when all of your posts directed toward anything remotely about me are dismissive, flippant, and callous.

As town, you have no justification for your push here, and I'm actually a little stung by you degrading my post toward you about this...

Impression is 1042 response to profii is saying it's bad, though maybe he was just talking in general

I actually townread you but I think hit's probably scum and dramonic sees similar as me

Actually have to go now so I can't really read ISOs but can you post what you think the "smoking gun" is on dramonic for you

I just want to hear the reasons behind

dramonic

town here because they're playing unbelievably anti-town at the moment.

1)

dramonic

on 870 and 871 show that he literally has no care and is throwing associatives revolving around his individual and barely-formulated scumreads, he writes

Flubb

off as a lynchbait counterwagon but doesn't explain how.

2)

His entire read on me is based on

Dave

and he's not even communicating with me on the gamestate beyond saying he doesn't give AF about my posts. 1011

3)

His push on

Hit

doesn't have a lot of stated reasoning and a lot of his responses are just pushing off any post that brings up a point to him. 802 - 920 - 1052

I can even go further on depth with my problems on

dramonic

right now.

I understand that I'm becoming pretty blinded by

dramonic's

abysmal response to me, but I'm legit getting annoyed and he's actively creating a dichotomy within the game if he's town.

But I don't think he's town, because town he has no incentive to have the approach to the game that he has, and as scum, it makes much more sense to be sitting on popular wagons while deflecting ANY argument his way.

And I know that

dramonic

is an older player and deviates from currrent site-meta - but so I have to an extent - and I can't even perceive how he's town with this mindset.

[Taly]

Walking out the door, I'm busy today, I'll post later.

But I'm not backing down on this.

[Inferno390]

Also, there are a lot of screwy terms in this game that I’m going to have to address at some point.
I know 100% for a fact that dramonic’s use of confbias is wrong, because I have more than once shown bad cases of confbias and have read the page on the wiki. Will get to that when I beat the living daylights out of his response.
Also, the vanity wagon definition is a little flawed. I want to go into more detail with that.

I’ll get that done when I get to a computer as well.

[MagnaofIllusion]

This is probably my main computer time for the weekend so I’ll try to make the most from it. I will say I will keep an eye on the thread and phone post a vote if I need to move as deadline nears. I will say if I end up moving it will be to dramonic over Hitalt. While some of the points being made about dram are bad (Taly’s 1043 in particular is reviving my scum lean on that slot … replacing a slot doesn’t magically make scummy posting of the prior slot holder disappear and insisting to be read only from your own posting aka Replacement Haloing I think is suspect) but Inferno has made some valid observations (top of which is his analysis that Dram’s pairing of Duckling and HitAlt as partners makes no sense). The one thing eating at the back of my mind is all the WIFOM (“Why would scumHitAlt do that?”) language I see flying to clear HitAlt. It’s suspect because no-one is answering the question of “Why would TownHitAlt play as he is?” also because the answer to both is bad play and that’s NAI. If I’m wrong on my read and HitAlt is scum at least one of those Townreading HitAlt on WIFOM is scum with him.

Still feel most likely that Flubber is scum who is mostly active lurking and watching counter-wagons form to save his ass. Either HitAlt of Dram flips Town and he should be Vigged / Lynched / Whatever It Takes as soon as possible.


--

As town or as scum?
I mean we know each other real well but from my chair I don't think we have any special meta tells.
I'm just playing pretty close to the chest here and realize that you're one of those people I can't just sort out in a day sort of things.
I have a healthy respect for your play and what you are capable of.

A scum clearly. Why would you ever think I would be suggesting Town Andy has a reason to kill me overnight? That’s odd parsing. Your last line here is exactly why I think scum you would have a vested interest in getting rid of me N1 regardless of my play.

Oh hi drealmerz didn't see you there.

Is this actual knowledge or are you just playing a game with HitAlt here? Because HitAlt being Dreal would be very helpful in assessing his play.

--

I get into 1v1s a lot... usually as town, though. I have a long history of 1v1s and even 1v2s and 1v3s...

I often catch scum with this method.

You probably need to provide some support for this because I find people who claim that they 1v1 to catch scum tend to be either greatly overstating or scum.

I'm going to need my high-townreads to lmk if I'm tunneling dramonic too hard because I will piledrive that slot and feel little-to-no remorse if it flips town at this point in time.

Considering how ick your vote change to Dram is I would reward you with rope for this statement if Dram does end up getting lynched as a deadline push and is Town. Doubly so if Flub would be revealed as scum due to Vig or Investigation action..

If he’s scum then my concerns evaporate in a cloud of floral scented happiness.

[profii]

I am probably going to vote Dram but I prefer flubber so just waiting for the VC to see if it’s worth sticking or will dram be the way we are going

Someone said plenty of time but I disagree as it’s hard to get everyone going in a specific direction quickly, particularly at weekend so just making my intentions known for now

[Elbirn]

hey y'all sorry for going a couple days with no posts, I'm catching up now

Who are you?

[dramonic]

@Taly: Your predecessor condemned your slot by being completely obvscum and you're getting pissy with me because of it. You're caught, get over yourself.

[dramonic]

Calling my play antitown because you're caught scum is really classy btw.

[Inferno390]

hey y'all sorry for going a couple days with no posts, I'm catching up now

Who are you?

Um
This slot would be called “half the game” imo

[Elbirn]

Spoiler:

-Is passive aggressively tunneling Taly despite giving no reads on him after davesaz replaces out

It's the same playerslot. I don't care what Taly has to say.

-only provided original reads on davesaz. No other original content from the slot after that exchange

Townread deleted.

There's so many things wrong with this post.

VOTE: dramonic VOTE: dramonic VOTE: dramonic

In what world does town literally dismiss an entire replacement slot and tunnel their scumread based off a predecessor, while ignoring the other slot's posts?

Maybe this vote will encourage you

TO CARE

about

ANY

of

MY

posting

IN THIS GAME

because they

HOLD WEIGHT

.

I'm not moving my vote until you drop this

"you're scum and I want your lynch for reasons that vaguely apply because I don't want to try to read you more"

approach.

I completely disagree with the

Hit

lynch and you seem borderline apathetic about me having any opinion at all, despite it being different from yours.

~~~

Side note, I'm not sure about

TW

read at the moment, but there's more worthy people for me imo.

I think scum-

TW

WKing town-

Hit

is more possible than any reality regarding

Hit

-scum, but I have people I'm borderline tunneling to the ground at the moment.

*anime man looking at a butterfly but the man is Dramonic and the butterfly is this post* "Is this a scumflail?"



The joke is that it's not, in case that wasn't obvious. This reads like spazzy emotional town

[dramonic]

It's not flailing it's a tantrum

[Elbirn]

VOTE: Xyzzy

Flashwagon this. Xyzzy has naught but fluffposting and walls of "I like this post" with no real substance or analysis and actually clicking through their wall of post links only furthers the disappointment.

Scum is lurking through this game and letting us run up lynch baity people for playing poorly but not necessarily scummy. Rally to me boys and girls and xirs, the dark times end now

[Inferno390]

@MoI: I think Taly’s problem is not that his slot was being scumread before he replaced in and it hasn’t disappeared, as much as it is dramonic tagged the slot as scum and then has followed up with “I’m gonna ignore everything that Taly does because it’s a scum slot.” Which is incredibly confbias and horrendously bad play.

It’s stuff like post 1068 above that really show this. And it’s really, really stupid. If someone replaces out after being scummy, sure those reads don’t stand. But you don’t go around ignoring the replacements read because their play doesn’t fit your read/you’re confbiased/whatever. You at least give the player a chance to post before you go noosing him.
Because there’s this thing. It’s called being wrong on a read. And it happens. And that fact of life needs to be sucked up and gotten over.