Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[skitter30]

ftr i haven't actually played with scum!him but i've skimmed a few of his scumgames

[Shoshin]

Elephant is a town read, and i feel like hes succumbing to a bit of paranoia. I dont really like it when i have pretty confident townreads and i cant really work with them

Why is Irrelephant a townread?

[Shoshin]

ftr i haven't actually played with scum!him but i've skimmed a few of his scumgames

Where have you seen him do something similar as scum?

[Errantparabola]

a) it's a plausible theory, but (b) I never said Key was "so much scummier."

Saying that you said that was not my intention. I meant to say that your vote sort of implied to me that that was where your priorities were

Skitter, I'll check that out at some point.

VOTE: Mom

[Irrelephant11]

Mmm
So if momrangal is town I'd expect one of two things depending on her read strength of me here
If hard scumreading, vote and push convincingly as priority.
If anything but, engage with me.
But this reaction is kind of evasive and somewhat talking around the point or of making judgment.[/quote]
I don't think you or Mom have anything impressive to say about each other, honestly.

Can you summarize your Mom case? I know other people's but from a quick look it seems like yours consists of these two posts?

Momrangals first focus here on a townread somewhat betraying(?) her rather than on who is scum or analyzing anything given gamma flipped is no bueno.

I'm not against voting Mom, I just think the worst has higher scum equity. Without as much time to play the past couple of days, I haven't had a chance to ISO my scumreads and compare, but my gut says the worst being a bad vote on Gamma means he's more likely than Mom to flip red. I'll help lynch Mom if that's town consensus, but I think Mom and Keyser are equally likely to be off-wagon scum and I'm not sure which it is (I haven't considered them both being scum yet, but idk from memory that seems unlikely)

[skitter30]

ftr i haven't actually played with scum!him but i've skimmed a few of his scumgames

Where have you seen him do something similar as scum?

i was vaguely following along with this one

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10167187

[Irrelephant11]

I don't think you or Mom have anything impressive to say about each other, honestly.

Can you summarize your Mom case? I know other people's but from a quick look it seems like yours consists of these two posts?

Momrangals first focus here on a townread somewhat betraying(?) her rather than on who is scum or analyzing anything given gamma flipped is no bueno.

Mmm
So if momrangal is town I'd expect one of two things depending on her read strength of me here
If hard scumreading, vote and push convincingly as priority.
If anything but, engage with me.
But this reaction is kind of evasive and somewhat talking around the point or of making judgment.

I'm not against voting Mom, I just think the worst has higher scum equity. Without as much time to play the past couple of days, I haven't had a chance to ISO my scumreads and compare, but my gut says the worst being a bad vote on Gamma means he's more likely than Mom to flip red. I'll help lynch Mom if that's town consensus, but I think Mom and Keyser are equally likely to be off-wagon scum and I'm not sure which it is (I haven't considered them both being scum yet, but idk from memory that seems unlikely)

EBWOP

[Shoshin]

ftr i haven't actually played with scum!him but i've skimmed a few of his scumgames

Where have you seen him do something similar as scum?

i was vaguely following along with this one

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10167187

That specific post you just quoted should clear BV as town here.

[Errantparabola]

Skitter, I'll check that out at some point.

Checked it out.
conclusion: plausible-ish

i'm checking mafia during lecture. am I the new nauci?

[Shoshin]

It's unlikely that Key/Mom are scum together, still need to check interactions between the two of them and the worst.

[Shoshin]

i'm checking mafia during lecture. am I the new nauci?

You're on your way.

[skitter30]

ftr i haven't actually played with scum!him but i've skimmed a few of his scumgames

Where have you seen him do something similar as scum?

i was vaguely following along with this one

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... #p10167187

That specific post you just quoted should clear BV as town here.

why?

[Shoshin]

Nuance isn't there in his game as scum, it's very mechanical, almost surgical. There's a real person trying to solve the game in his posts here. I mean, I could be wrong, but I got a very different vibe from reading his scum post. Though to be fair, I didn't read it in context.

[skitter30]

idk.

i'm tending town but i don't feel comfortable locktowning him just yet

[Shoshin]

Part of the thing about BV's play as scum there is that there's a lot more mechanical commentary ("X happened, it's reasonable; Y happened, it's weird; if Z's the case, W") than actual analysis of what could be going through people's minds, which is what you see here.

[Shoshin]

I'm not worried about BV at the moment.

Let's talk about Key. I still don't understand how anyone makes 414 or 547 without some sort of ulterior motive biasing those interpretations.

I also don't like the way he interacts with Gamma (it's like he's doing anything possible to avoid voting Gamma even though all his posts suggest that he suspects him).

543 doesn't square with the explanation in 629.

1224 is lots of mechanical commentary (like, this is the sort of stuff I'd see BV posting as scum rather than town).

Key eventually votes Mom - this is when Gamma's at L-1 and Mom's V/LA - to "make this a two-horse race." And he stresses that his reads feel bad. So he's not even committing to anything on Gamma or Mom or anyone else. He's very passive with respect to both wagons.

But if anyone thinks he's town, I'd like to hear why.

[Shoshin]

The surprise in 630 feels fake too.

[Irrelephant11]

Shoshin what do you think of Not_Mafia's slot? Also what do you think of my VCA? Also also is it safe yet for me to townread both Nauci and skitter because I've wanted to all game but have been hesitant because their perspectives often align with each other but not always my own, so then I think one of them is scum using the other as a town benchmark, but idk which or if maybe they're both just town?

Also skitter you were right I wasn't considering context with your read of Nauci, I was mostly skimming your EOD1 and that just stuck out to me.

pedit: stungun was 100% certain he was town, which idk what to do with and is part of why I've let my Key-push sit and wait for other flips

But wow yes "passive" has been my scumread on him the wholeeeee game

[Shoshin]

It's safe to townread Skitter for the moment because even though I haven't checked the meta, I believe BV, and he's right about the drive in her pushes this game.

[skitter30]

keyser, is english your first language? Your posts feel very ... cage-y or put-upon or artificial maybe? Idk what the right word is exactly but they feel kinda off in a general sense. Or like affected is maybe a good word?

your posts don't feel very real to me. idk how to explain that better right now.

Idk why moving duckling is a problem for you?

I didn't give nsg a read. 'null' is not a read. I don't know where to put you; you're unsorted, by which I mean there's things I like (your early game observations), and things I don't like (tonally you feel really really really off). unsorted != null.

he hasn't really done anything to change this impression basically

like tonally he feels weird and he like summarizes a lot and expects other people to come to conclusions for him almost? i said somewhere earlier that he almost feels like he's narrating a discussion between two other parties when there's conflict without really coming to his own conclusion. but idk if that's how usually plays as town or scum without doing a whole meta thing that i really doubt i'm going to do in the nearish future; i'm kinda prioritizing the actively scummy people right now

[skitter30]

Also skitter you were right I wasn't considering context with your read of Nauci, I was mostly skimming your EOD1 and that just stuck out to me.

yes, and this is the second time you've voted me without actually paying attention to the context of what i'm saying

like the things you've been voting me for don't actually match up to what i'm doing

[Shoshin]

Also what do you think of my VCA?

I'm not sure what this refers to, which post?

[Shoshin]

like tonally he feels weird and he like summarizes a lot and expects other people to come to conclusions for him almost? i said somewhere earlier that he almost feels like he's narrating a discussion between two other parties when there's conflict without really coming to his own conclusion. but idk if that's how usually plays as town or scum without doing a whole meta thing that i really doubt i'm going to do in the nearish future; i'm kinda prioritizing the actively scummy people right now

I don't think you need meta to see how scummy this is. His posts are fake, he's narrating instead of analyzing, his vote on Mom was convictionless, he didn't want to vote Gamma despite suspecting him, and his interpretations in 414 and 547 betray an informed perspective.

What makes Mom scummier?

[Shoshin]

I also don't really care what Stun thought. His slot's probably town but that doesn't mean he was right about Key a few pages into the game.

[Irrelephant11]

Also skitter you were right I wasn't considering context with your read of Nauci, I was mostly skimming your EOD1 and that just stuck out to me.

yes, and this is the second time you've voted me without actually paying attention to the context of what i'm saying

like the things you've been voting me for don't actually match up to what i'm doing

I'm having trouble sorting you/am paranoid about you
sorry bout it