Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Irrelephant11]

@skitter and BV, answering you will require quoting, so I’ll do it when I’m not on mobile tomorrow. Partial answers:

BV I thought Bernie’s associations were interesting, I hadn’t inspected him closely, I had a (paranoid) feeling he might be scum, I voted there. It didn’t reveal much but I’ve since seen a lot of towniness from him, so he’s a townread.

Skitter I didn’t vote Mom at the start of the day because I was *certain* she was scum, I voted her because her EOD1 made her do the most dramatic drop in my reads. I’m still not certain but if she was town I would have expected a better response to pressure than she gave. Like she basically didn’t address anything from D1, so meh, she definitely doesn’t deserve a townread atm

[Shoshin]

Feels like Mom has given up.

[Shoshin]

Hey BV, I found this while looking back at town Irrelephant's play in the Newbie game:

Oh yeah, I forgot you've been stellar today. lol I keep looking at D1 and a little of D2 which on my first read through I wrote the note "Shoshin more likely town, no scum, no town, idk" as I read it.

That's pretty consistent with how he's been playing this game, lots of back-and-forth on everyone. So, I dunno. Might be worth looking at his scum game to see if his votes shifted around as much as here, but I get the sense this is a town-tell for Irrelephant.

[Nauci]

UNOFFICIAL Votecount Record Day 2

Momrangal (4) -

Bernie Sanders #1660

,

Irrelephant11 #1662

,

skitter30 #1663

,

Bernie Sanders

#1893[/size],

skitter30

#1947[/size],

northsidegal/Errantparabola

#1953[/size],

GeminiTwin12/the worst

#2073[/size],

Irrelephant11 #2081

Keyser Soze (2) -

Shoshin #1629

,

stungun0404/Gustavo #1674

,

Shoshin

#1928[/size],

Irrelephant11

#2100[/size]

GeminiTwin12/the worst (1) -

skitter30 #1627

,

Nauci #1768

,

northsidegal/Errantparabola #1770

,

skitter30 #1776

,

Bernie Sanders #1839

,

Irrelephant11 #1936

,

Keyser Soze

#2109[/size]

stungun0404/Gustavo (1) -

Invisibility/Not_Mafia

#2010[/size]

Shoshin (1) -

stungun0404/Gustavo #1695

,

stungun0404/Gustavo

#1783[/size]

UNVOTE/Not Voting (1) -

Shoshin #1927

,

Nauci

#2055[/size]

Invisibility/Not_Mafia -

Irrelephant11 #1692

Bernie Sanders (0) -

None

Nauci -

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1826

northsidegal/Errantparabola -

None

skitter30 -

Shoshin #1784

,

Irrelephant11 #1910

Mathdino/BlackVoid -

Nauci #1638

Irrelephant11 -

None

Vote Record By Player Day 2

Spoiler:

Momrangal

- None

Keyser Soze

-

GeminiTwin12/the worst

#2109

GeminiTwin12/the worst

-

Nauci #1826

,

Momrangal

#2073

stungun0404/Gustavo

-

Keyser Soze #1674

,

Shoshin #1695

,

Shoshin

#1783

Shoshin

-

Keyser Soze #1629

,

skitter30 #1784

,

UNVOTE/Not Voting #1927

,

Keyser Soze

#1928

UNVOTE/Not Voting

-

Invisibility/Not_Mafia

-

stungun0404/Gustavo

#2010

Bernie Sanders

-

Momrangal #1660

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1839

,

Momrangal

#1893

Nauci

-

Mathdino/BlackVoid #1638

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1768

,

UNVOTE/Not Voting

#2055

northsidegal/Errantparabola

-

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1770

,

Momrangal

#1953

skitter30

-

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1627

,

Momrangal #1663

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1776

,

Momrangal

#1947

Mathdino/BlackVoid

- None

[Nauci]

Vote Record By Player Day 2

Reposting this because I somehow deleted Irrelephant's vote record line before.

Spoiler:

Momrangal

- None

Keyser Soze

-

GeminiTwin12/the worst

#2109

GeminiTwin12/the worst

-

Nauci #1826

,

Momrangal

#2073

stungun0404/Gustavo

-

Keyser Soze #1674

,

Shoshin #1695

,

Shoshin

#1783

Shoshin

-

Keyser Soze #1629

,

skitter30 #1784

,

UNVOTE/Not Voting #1927

,

Keyser Soze

#1928

UNVOTE/Not Voting

-

Invisibility/Not_Mafia

-

stungun0404/Gustavo

#2010

Bernie Sanders

-

Momrangal #1660

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1839

,

Momrangal

#1893

Nauci

-

Mathdino/BlackVoid #1638

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1768

,

UNVOTE/Not Voting

#2055

northsidegal/Errantparabola

-

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1770

,

Momrangal

#1953

skitter30

-

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1627

,

Momrangal #1663

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1776

,

Momrangal

#1947

Mathdino/BlackVoid

- None

Irrelephant11

-

Momrangal #1662

,

Invisibility/Not_Mafia #1692

,

skitter30 #1910

,

GeminiTwin12/the worst #1936

,

Momrangal #2081

,

Keyser Soze

#2100

[the worst]

ugh that avi is so good

[Nauci]

Readthrough Notes and Responses - Beginning of Day 2 through page 76

Spoiler:

1664 1670 1671 @Irrelephant

: My biggest objection to your statement was the sheer arbitrariness of "two scum on wagon and one off." Mastina discouraged it

twice

in that guide (which also says scum are less likely to be on a mislynch wagon). I don't understand on what grounds you made that statement, and why you would go so far as to ask us who of the rest is likely to be scum. It more appear-to-be-scum-hunting rather than real analysis. I want to know what aspects of the "lynch and the counterwagons" you're referring to and how they "felt" and what logic directs you to conclude 2 on 1 off from those things. Even after 1683, it's unclear why 2 on 1 off vs 1 on 2 off (et al).

As someone trying to sort people I demand that you (and Shoshin) not *just* stir up conversation but *contribute* your own thoughts because it's very easy to sit back and stir shit up and look productive as scum while not giving us thought processes and point of view content that is hard to fake.

I do not claim that my vote tracker effort is alignment indicative; I do claim that it was a more pro-town use of my time than continuing to drop 1600 word posts that make everyone dread reading the game.

___

1672

-Irrelephant I take back my view that mom-bernie being s/s is implausible. I thought at the time that it was implausible because while momrangal voteparked there and fucked off early, them voting each other was unnecessary. But I take that back because voting mom as a counter wagon doesn't get credit after the switch to hammering Gamma. However, my standalone analysis that the progression felt towny stands.

___

1698 1705 @Irrelephant

, your reads change really often, and usually seemingly closer to popular opinion/likely lynches...

___

1701 1702 @Gustavo

Town having to work together probably means you should pay more attention to who's voting where! And also stop calling people's posts "crappy shit" and telling them to stfu. Abrasiveness is generally anti-town because it's hard to read people when irritated.

If voting with your scumreads doesn't change your mind, does it mean you don't think about why someone you think is scum might vote someone (regardless of who)? How does telling someone to

not

ask questions/post analysis/vote help town? Were we supposed to read your mind and know that you voted with your scum read because you didn't see it, and factor that into our analysis via magic? Or know that you're town (if you are) magically?

It's ridiculous to keep interlacing posts insulting players with posts demanding teamwork and posts lambasting disagreement as not-teamwork.

___

1739

Okay

@Bernie

we have got to come back to this "I feel like I might've been the NK target last night" bit.

___

1744

-Errant lol yeah I was hoping for Math to get all NAUCI IS TOWN GODDAMNIT for 6 pages again. C'est la vie.

___

1746 @the worst

u fockin' wot m8

Whichever night you meant, please explain

___

1749

-Keyser I don't think Math made any scummy posts. But I think it's impossible to sort Math without a whole lot more posts, so I absolutely don't town read him. (I do think it's very possible to read him when he posts a lot, but, sadness.) I realize that the RL stuff factors in heavily, but I think Math is like me and would still make an effort to poke in a little even if unbelievably busy. Quiet Math != VT Math...

___

1756 @Keyser

I can't express how much I appreciate this post. I was feeling a bit paranoid/lost WRT Shoshin.

I also giggled at the "bludgeoned Gamma to death" bit. I think this was a pretty good example of "villagery fury."

___

1777 -The Worst

There are so many things wrong with the post, and the amount of OMGUS from TW only making maybe last place.

___

1782

-Gustavo



___

1783 @Gustavo

Thank you.

This post helped me figure out what the bad vibes I had gotten were about. I felt like I had a good grasp of her state of mine through her posts but her vote pattern pinged me several times.

___

1784

-Shoshin Like here!

___

1792 @Shoshin

Why?

___

1792 1797 1801

-Shoshin -Errant Good catch y'all.

___

1803 @Shoshin

Why? here also.

___

1805 @irrelephant

Actually I was silently eating crow because for all of my hesitations and circumstantial worries, I was leaning scum on Gamma albeit with increasing doubt.

___

1812 @the worst

Towntelling as in what you think my towntells are, or what you consider to generally be town tells?

___

1813

-Keyser

Still don't like it but still think this is also town fury.

Not sure if I understand why pre-flip hypothesizing is town AI, however.

___

1824 @BlackVoid

TBH I'm a bit fuzzy on my thought process back at page 5. I think that it was I thought Shoshin's reaction was really genuine, and Skitter's reaction to her analysis of Math was very genuine, and then their continued interactions were not likely to be faked. Looking back, I feel exactly the same way that Skitter's correction of Shoshin's potential misconception was very towny, but don't know why I would have thought it made s/s more plausible than scumshoshin/townskitter, because I now don't have that reaction.

WRT 151, I think it felt like it was "quick" because I was reading all of those pages in a catchup instead of real time.

___

1829 @Keyser

I think you should do a similar analysis for the progression of TW's reads on momrangal, and how often TW voted/FOSed people who FOS him. I'm not saying this Socratically like it'll have an obvious conclusion; only that they are important thought processes we need to investigate.

___

1832 @irrelephant

TBH, I don't think anything I'm doing would be out of my potential scum game (if I ever had a good one). I'm capable of thinking to do anything of the things I've done so far. However, any one of those things would be waaaay more difficult for me to do (a large part of why I procrastinated so long that game, mixed with how I kept getting away with it and not being FOSed by anyone but you for lurking), so the amount of intense thought process posts I've been making would have taken me a maaaaassive amount of time (whereas as town, the tryhard zuihitsu wallposts come to me very fluidly). So the same post that I spent so long working on that I got replaced out, I would have finished in 6 hours as town that game.

On one hand, it's very complimentary to each other that we're FOSing each other so hard because we think we'd be such capable scum players, but on the other hand, it's really not helping anybody (us included) sort us. I'm going to continue to try and force you to post things that would be extremely difficult for scum you to come up with, and, I'm guessing, vice versa.

___

1833 @Skitter

I think one component of why it was really hard to start a mom wagon yesterday was that she wasn't around. I know I moved off briefly because one of the reasons I FOSed her was low content, but pressure wasn't producing any content so I wanted to use my one vote to turn over other rocks. Meanwhile, Gamma was responding but not in ways that could break exisitng confbias.

I scumread the slot more for all of the inexplicable town reads on her very few (not terribly towny) posts than for her posts, so I question less why she didn't get votes and more why so many people actively defended her.

Actually, it's not just the inexplicable town reads. It's all of the seemingly inexplicable reads thrown around this game, a large portion of which have been regarding momrangal. While reads based on circumstances (like wagon momentum) are sensible, I get very bad feelings about how people seem to find her few posts and much silence indicative any which way, especially when it changes. I will give leeway for those things changing immediately after the flip since quite a bit was predicated on gamma's alignment, but no excuses on day 1.

___

1836 @Gustavo

Nauci = good as in... town? Or a good vote and you think I'm scum with Shoshin? I think it's the latter but don't want to misinterpret.

___

1838

-Irrelephant I wish to try this in a hydra someday. It worked for Meji, after all!

___

1840 @Gustavo

Agree to disagree on 102? I think that calling people out for exclusively fluff/look-busy posts is a very strong scum hunting tactic.

As for 675, my post meant that my scum pile was so large I didn't know where to start, so I picked an arbitrary reason to start there. In addition, putting someone to -2 is good pressure/scum hunting when >4 votes are required for a lynch.

I'm not bothering with links but I never stop turning over rocks day 1. There's plenty of people to stick to momentum wagons but just because there are 4 days (or whatever other number) left doesn't mean there aren't more opportunities to explore other avenues. I end a lot of days on what people like to call vanity votes but I consider them due diligence.

I was extremely unhappy with the Gamma wagon ending the day early and no other people I wanted to vote were even around, so vote parking in hopes that there were posts before ending the day seemed like the sensible option. What alternative do you suggest if you were working with the same premises? Or do you just find my premises "not acceptable"?

Why was it so clear at the start of day 2 that Math had stopped playing? He made repeated posts promising a return.

Also why do you think the TW vote is terrible?

Why is it perfectly okay for you to tell people to stfu and tell us we're all blind and terrible and bullshit and asshats, but not okay for anyone else to be anything but patient and kind to you and sheep all of your viewpoints? This is some narcissistic bullshit right here. There's no reason you couldn't have just asked me for clarifications or pointed out why you thought my votes weren't pro-town without using explicitly sardonic language. This is the shit Irrelephant touched on as well: it makes people not want to interact with you (skitter) or participate in this game (irrelephant). You shower us in condescension yet feel entitled to respect and teamwork (and people seeing things your way). Not only is it just plain irritating to read, it psychologically antithetical to teamwork.

___

1860 @Errant

Oh god I suddenly feel very weird about myself for spending 5 hour chunks on a forum mafia game. What am I even doing with my life excuse me I need to apologize to my boyfriend

___

1881 @momrangal

I mean you can't play the "before I could even get back from VLA" card if you were going to be VLA for long past the deadline... That's a pretty manipulative way to frame that progression.

What do you mean by "betrayed"? Does that imply some sort of sense of "loyalty" and expectation that irrelephant was in your pocket? Why does your point of view have that expectation? (Yeah, what @Shoshin said in 1882.)

___

1889 @momrangal

Now I have no idea what you are or were trying to say.

As of this page I'm still feeling Skitter/Keyser as very town, lean town on Errant and BS, slight TR on Shosin and Gustavo, and and a ??? for most of the rest of the game for either conflicting things or lack of things. I am concerned that I haven't seen much that I want to strongly scumread but I think I'm just being too forgiving.

Besides the individual questions/comments in the above wall, I have these questions/comments:

-

@People who think/thought Skitter is scummy: why?

-Are we all collectively silently deciding to mostly not discuss the lack of night kill because it could be any one of like a dozen reasons? I've never seen a game with this little setup spec. In fact, it's especially weird after Irrelephant spent hours and hours thinking of every game theory possibility, but that was with a semi-open Newbie setup.

-I don't know if this will change in another 10 pages, but I don't feel like I have nearly as much information that would allow me to make reads as I want. Do others feel this way? Because we never really chimed in on Bernie's idea of hypoclaims in a game w/ low information and high eagerness to flip-hypothesize. (I am extremely against any other forms of claims however, even with Math out).

It's fucking 4 AM I have to be up in 3 hours for class. RIP. May not have time to finish this kind of catch up before Sunday. Would y'all prefer I skim the rest and give tl;dr, or do you still want more of these granular thought to text walls for sorting me?

[brassherald]

Votes have not changed, being lazy and skipping the VC

[the worst]

nauci.......all of those 3 posts of mine are 2 questions of unabashed busywork and one weak shadethrow.
I'd like you to please try and guess the answers to both, and explain what your actual issues with that post are, why you think it's scum motivated and why you think "omgus" is bad + comes from scum!me in this instance

[Nauci]

I didn't realize that the TW wagon fell apart long before I was even paranoid about ending the day too early and unvoting.

Skitter, Irrelephant, Errant, BS: Did you move because your <current vote target> is scummier than tw to you, or because you town read something(s) tw post?

[the worst]

I'm used to seeing walls of solving from you fam. not walls of shadethrowing and asking questions with obvious answers. :c

[Nauci]

nauci.......all of those 3 posts of mine are 2 questions of unabashed busywork and one weak shadethrow.
I'd like you to please try and guess the answers to both, and explain what your actual issues with that post are, why you think it's scum motivated and why you think "omgus" is bad + comes from scum!me in this instance

For the first and third, I legitimately want you to answer/explain. I do not know what you are trying to say, and I think town benefits from knowing your answers.

As for the other one:

-OMGUS FOSing is not scum hunting or casing. It's confbias.
-I continue to find that you post reads without providing thought processes and want thought processes. I want to understand why you think your wagon had scum on it besides that they are voting you, and why you townread momrangal previously but threw it away with relative ease today.
-Why do you consider 3 votes on you "pushing a cw this hard," especially when 2 of the 3 also scumread momrangal and created the wagon on day 1?

[the worst]

it's really obvious gamestate stuff that I'm sure I've already talked about???

i was a conspicuous cw to mom here.
the fact that {you, skitter, mom} actively read like scumbuddies is like, a fucking honeypot fmpov.
you're also both weakly shading me, ignoring my reads and really clumsily positioning me for a mislynch

I am not easy to mislynch, even if I am kinda only half engaged with this game. sorry to disappoint you but i'm not going to roll over and take this shit.

[the worst]

it's actually high key difficult to remain engaged when
there's probs 3 scum
and i have 3 players sitting at the bottom of my reads list

like unless one of you flips town i can't really see a reason why i'd get interested in this game

[Nauci]

I'm used to seeing walls of solving from you fam. not walls of shadethrowing and asking questions with obvious answers. :c

I don't ask questions when the answers are obvious to me (in fact, I apparently answer those questions on Keyser's behalf compulsively).

If I'm asking, I want to know, whether it's because I do not understand, or I want to hear it in your own words (usually the former!).

I'm not sure when you think you've seen me game solve because I rarely have strong game solving posts or opinions in day 1 or 2. Just a shit ton of posts like these walls asking for clarifications and correcting misconceptions and pushing people for more content.

If someone's willing to interact with me I'll push them hard and case them (like with Irrelephant here, or Xiao Long in Mini Normal 1957, or Gorny in Newbie 1828, or Mathblade in Team Mafia Tiebreaker. But this game has neither setup spec to narrow shit down, or scummy people who were around to actually press and respond before I started bootcamp.

But I'm not really giving a shit about how you read

me

. I need you to answer so we can read

you

. I don't think I'm the one who hasn't posted enough alignment indicative content.

[Nauci]

it's really obvious gamestate stuff that I'm sure I've already talked about???

i was a conspicuous cw to mom here.
the fact that {you, skitter, mom} actively read like scumbuddies is like, a fucking honeypot fmpov.
you're also both weakly shading me, ignoring my reads and really clumsily positioning me for a mislynch

I am not easy to mislynch, even if I am kinda only half engaged with this game. sorry to disappoint you but i'm not going to roll over and take this shit.

I have literally been repeatedly asking you to explain your thought processes and scum reads.

Is that how you define "ignoring"?

You realize that I've not even been actively casing you? I've been asking you questions to get more information for half of the game.

You don't answer BV because you want him to ask you questions directly and and succinctly. You don't answer my succinct and direct questions at you because??

Spoiler: This is the collection of The Worst's posts on reading Nauci.

What is Nauci

null

TW who do you think is scum?
if deadline was right now I want some names of who would you lynch and in what order

also interested in your momrangal read, I read it you saying she's NAI and voting my impression was as pressure but then she did content and I haven't seen you respond/update there

you're correct my Mom vote was mostly pressure. her response didn't rock my world so I'm gonna need to spend some time processing it.

kinda not an easy question to answer right now but maybe something like Mom > Gamma > Nauci right now, but my scumreads are currently the slots I also feel the most bland about...which has me realising I'll be deeply boring until I have more time.

Math nsg and skitter are viable scumspects but I have really low interest in pushing either of the 3 currently

I'm in "everyone voting me but Bernie could easily be scum and I don't currently know where to go next" mode. I also don't have time to sort thru them or take the time to analyse Mom's last few posts, but my gut is telling me Nauci is not town here.

So... chill.

I'm like 15 pages of splotchy reading behind but Nauci is not feeling like town!Nauci.

if I was active lurking as scum I'd go closer to the prodge range, as much as I love charismatic spamming it is an awful strat when you want to be townread.

I don't want a 1500 page essay. Simply two or three sentences to say why Nauci isn't town Nauci in your opinion, then I leave you.

so what impressed me about Nauci's playstyle when I was scum vs. her was how transparently conspicuously town she was. she was constantly critical, open minded and worked well with others townies.

she feels less attached and engaged here and I cannot shake the feeling that her posting is pushing an agenda and specific preconceived stances rather than actively forming opinions fluidly as she goes.

if that makes sense??

Despite multiple posts announcing a scumread on me, it takes quite a few people/posts pressing you on what "town!Nauci" means before you explain what it is and why you don't think it is happening.

My question is, how is it not?

Where have I not been transparent? Have I not been constantly critical? I've cased several people and changed my mind after a lot of evaluation on several people (irrelephant, gamma, shoshin), updated my reads very transparently for people who swing back and forth from null (bernie, errant, etc.) and I've kept my reads on several people after repeated evaluation (skitter, keyser). I've clearly been critical of you the whole time.

Have I not worked well with others? Do said others agree here? Would you care to explain where in my 1600 word posts I stay up until 3 AM writing are less engaged than you've seen before?

What agenda do you think I've been pushing? That the most town read people in the game are town, and the people who aren't posting enough should post more? Or like, illuminati takeover of the solar system?

Nauci how do you rate your reads on powerful playstyles generally? do you tunnel as town?

I do not tunnel as town, basically ever. I am literally constantly evaluating new data and if I maintain a view it's because I haven't seen data otherwise.

nauci is probably town too

super interested in why you think this, the nullness of my read on Nauci is like. nibbling at the back of my skull.

what part of the wagon composition is bugging you? note for myself to reconsider this.[/quote]

> calls Gamma and Nauci partners
> Gamma and Nauci start a PL wagon at EOD to avert from Gamwagon

this is almost too good
almost

It's somewhat unclear where the first part happened but I do think the fact that Gamma did that right after I did looked really gross and I quickly unvoted because I was scumreading him (but simultaneously unhappy with his wagon composition).

I see tryhard!Nauci
but no not towntelling

I'll do Nauci>Skitter>Mom I think

@TW I'm not comfortable letting you off though
I thought your play was working with your townreads and get stuff done, so?
You really think skitter nauci are scum duo after you?
Or you think BV and consequently math is now scum for busywork catchup I think they generally do?
Granted I don't like quotewall stuff but BV will take stances and commit to things when he's finished, probably regardless of align

Talk more about your mom read given you were townreading her yesterday

quoting to remind myself to hit u up when I'm not @ a job
gamestate is highly highly consistent with Nauci and skitter being scum with Mom. in retrospect vesides recognising that I shouldn't be lynched she hasn't done a lot. I think I was being stupid yday.

This is the collection of your posts shading me. Almost none of it presents any explanation of your read, and what little is circumstantial and/or outdated. For example, obviously I was not defending scum!Gamma. You went from thinking I was pushing momrangal as a CW to Gamma to pushing you as a cw to Momrangal. Is that plausible to you?

It's lazy and gross to dismiss all of my contributions this game as "no towntelling" and it's worse that you keep saying you've already explained.

[the worst]

dude i'm not gonna wallpost if you ask me to

if we're actually TvT here you've got massive issues with my playstyle that you need to re-assess. have you read any towngames of mine?

[the worst]

you actually sound actively frustrated here which has like thrown a curve ball fmpov

but this is 100% a playstyle issue. you get what's on my mind when it occurs to me and a snippet of where I'm at if you ask for it. it sounds like what I'm giving isn't enough for you but I have 0 interest in typing walls out regardless of the potential benefits.

I'm really happy for you that you have a hobby you're so passionate about that you're driven to stay up until 3am posting about it but what. I'm meant to give you a free townread over it? you don't like my stance because I'm not going "OH EFFORT NAUCI YAY TOWN"?

back awwfff

[the worst]

I guess maybe I should have done my homework on how many damn essays this game would produce but like most of the list isn't spewing massive NAI wallposts rife with wonky questions and then having a tantrum because they're not being townread over it. :/

[the worst]

I'm gonna have to work on what to think about how genuinely annoyed you feel rn. Calling it a night.

[Nauci]

Spoiler: Mathdino Case on The Worst in Open 719

Subject: Open 719: Stack The Deck! (D4)

-The Worst - not really seeing scum TW

what does scum tw look like?

he looks like town

that's the problem. he can be motivation-read but he also knows i know that since i've gone over his scumgames with him

Subject: Open 719: Stack The Deck! (D4)

he's VERY good at replicating his town meta

i don't intend to fall for the trap of metaing him again

from his scumgame:

Regardless of alignment I tend to get lazy around power players. But I'd say I play a more tryhard scum game, and definitely a lazier town game if I can get away with it. It's largely not intentional, there's just big battles of personalities which I don't really have the energy to get involved in.

As scum I loathe bussing and try to consider my partner/s as remote possibilities at best. The biggest tell I can see from myself is that I try to adjust my style to suit apparent PRs and conftown as scum while as town, I tend to totally disregard their asses and try to work with "obvtown" or sort "probtown" players

Also. Low key I abhor drawing scum but it happens to me a lot. xD (2:2 finished games on MS and I'm almost policy lynch in a Discord server I play in sometimes because of how often I'm evil)

Lowlight of my year so far: trying to explain my scumgame without softclaiming scum with Not_Mafia

Subject: Open 719: Stack The Deck! (D4)

VOTE: Math lmfao still at page 20

D1 paranoia here was this is the first time Math hasn't tried to read me by like page 3. I was trying to work out if he had me pinned for a future mislynch but afrer one post (I'll find it if ppl want)

I figured he was just being cautious bc he's underestimated my scum range before.

Lukewarm associatives and WIFOM about how scum!tw would play with town!math after our last game noice

welcome back

- i've literally played 2 games with you? the first time i replaced in and read you by VCA in my first posts. the second time, yeah, i'd seen 2 of your towngames (counting the one i modded) and i figured you were playing it and locked a townread on you.
the bolded is true though. so what exactly are you voting me for?

- that kind of WIFOM logic is also how i got a read on beefster in earthbound (based on how scum!beef would play against me after the last time i lynched him).
so are you voting me for anything other than BoP?

Subject: Open 719: Stack The Deck! (D4)

You had really good intuition with noticing the bad D1 wagons all around. mutant and Screenplay were easy mislynches, and often are lynchbait in other games. Townhunting is often more important than scumhunting. Problem is I think Espeonage assumed you were scum who already knew they were town.

You nailed Jay and Montosh. Jay really outplayed town with the super convincing roleblocker claim.

the worst, you fully know i think highly of your towngame
and also your scumgame
i just don't believe you think i'm scum here

Subject: Open 719: Stack The Deck! (D4)

1. Stay in the background D1, make smart sounding statements but don't step on any toes. Never be the scummiest person.

2. Broadcast that you're gonna claim PR. Bonus points if you do this as town anyway.

3. Openly push scum wincon without looking like you're trying to. Play dumb at every opportunity. If experienced players are trying to lynch town, defer to them. Bonus BONUS points if they're trying to lynch good town.

4. Get indignant when people try to lynch you. OMGUSing acceptable.

5. Ham it alllll the way up to the point where half your posts are scumclaims while the other half are "townslips" and dumbtells because you're having fun playing scum and you're having fun fucking with town's heads. You're having even more fun when you know you won't get lynched through a PR claim.

sound about right?

Well since I am having a little trouble deciding how to feel about The Worst refusing to respond to any of my questions (any of anyone's questions?), I went to look up a little wisdom. We all are sad Math isn't here and think he's pretty good at reading The Worst, Not_Mafia, and more, right? So here's Math's posts casing TW from our game. And some quotes from TW on his own scum play from somewhere else.

I'll let y'all decide for yourselves if this stuff applies here because I don't want to confbias, I only want to provide evidence. I have to go find some The Town games but preferably when it's not 6 AM.

[Nauci]

you actually sound actively frustrated here which has like thrown a curve ball fmpov

but this is 100% a playstyle issue. you get what's on my mind when it occurs to me and a snippet of where I'm at if you ask for it. it sounds like what I'm giving isn't enough for you but I have 0 interest in typing walls out regardless of the potential benefits.

I'm really happy for you that you have a hobby you're so passionate about that you're driven to stay up until 3am posting about it but what. I'm meant to give you a free townread over it? you don't like my stance because I'm not going "OH EFFORT NAUCI YAY TOWN"?

back awwfff

AGAIN: I. Don't. Care. What. Your. Read. Of. Me. Is. I have no problem posting the kind of content that lets everyone else sort me.

YOU

don't get a free townread for

not

posting or saying "I already answered that" "I refuse to answer" "it's hard to be engaged" "your questions need to be more succinct" "the answers are obvious."

[the worst]

ok that's fine

why are we yelling at each other again?

[the worst]

that's like
months old commentary around selfmeta from my second scumgame onsite

if you have some spare time read some of my more recent games? I can probably sort out links tomorrow if you want. actually Mathdino has pwnt me as scum more recently than open 719 too, check almost50's sharing is caring

[the worst]

town!Math has pwnt scum!me, rather