Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[OkaPoka]

that's a lot of effort for an analogy

[IcemanCh]

could you explain what transparency is?[/spoiler]

So like, imagine you've got a curtain, and behind the curtain is a big fat messy glob of brainjuice containing all your thoughts about the game. Everyone has their own special and unique glob of brainjuice, is part of being human. When you talk about things in the game, you're extracting stuff from your brainjuices and presenting them to rest of the game, basically by parting the curtain a little and sharing a little sample.

In it's most extreme form, you just make the curtain entirely see-through and everyone can just see all of your brainjuice, it's spilling out everywhere and it's kind of disgusting and no one really wants to look at it but it's also sorta compelling and they can't help but look. Practically speaking, though, it's kinda helpful to form your thoughts about things in a coherent way so that other people don't have to do a lot of work to figure out what the heck all that juice shit is that's happening. That would be, like, making a big ol' soup and when you come out the curtain parts and everyone can take a bit of a look at the big messy yucky glob and then they're given this delicious soup to eat and drink and they kinda get the best of both worlds. A bit of a view of the messy shit behind the curtain and a nice taste of coherency, and they can tell that that soup came from that glob because they can see that both have the same qualities, child like mother.

Thing is, if you're mafia, your brainjuice isn't like everyone else's. Your brainjuice is all contained in a neat little vat and there's nothing messy about it. It has air bubbles and shit, it's basically curated. So when you're bringing out your soup and ladle, people will see the vat behind the curtain and they'll be like, what? Who are you? And like, mafia can dress up their brainjuice and try to make it all messy, they can have these delicious soup recipes to feed everyone, but when it comes down to it, when they're doing the "transparent" thing and showing everyone what they think, there's no foundation to it, all they have is a silly-looking vat, they had to invent everything to make it seem like other people's ugly crap, they can't really part the curtain because if they do then people will notice that there's a disconnect between the soup and what's behind. And they're kinda smug about it, too, more often than not, you know. Power and secrecy does things to people.

Makey sense?

This is..... I think.... the most beautiful post I've ever seen. The use of brain juice is amazing.

Also, you are either the best scum player ever or you are town. I'm going to lean town but I think ICs should always be lynched before LYLO.


I'm catching up and I really like your display of reads. I think it is a bit complicated and I need something to decipher it but the concept is cool.

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: iceman

ill leave it here because i have no idea what you would want to policy lynch an IC and simultaneously compliment them

[nancy]

honestly, even if this sounds like sheeping...
I agree with ever single point you made, except...
I dont think Oka asking questions is AI and,
while Stan feels relaxed, his trinity read could be based off a little TMI and coming from scum, so I dont think that is AI either[/spoiler]

Sorta disagree. I think there's a lot of alignment information in the way someone asks questions and what they get from those questions.

Like, take our wagons in the last votal.

Formerfish (3) - OkaPoka, IcemanCh, TrinityNZ
Flicker (2) - nancy, Stan1ey
IcemanCh (1) - Formerfish
stan1ey (1) - SargeAlpha

Not Voting (2) - Eragon, Flicker

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

So I'm a little wary of SA, right? Let's say SA votes Iceman, and a bit later I vote Iceman too. Now, why am I voting with someone who I think could be mafia? Is that a weird thing from me? Well, the way you figure that out is a) look at what I've done to figure out Iceman's alignment, b) look at what I've done to figure out SA's alignment, c) ask me questions about either/both if you're not satisfied with my process.

If I've just hopped on with SA and not done anything to figure him out or to figure out why he's on that wagon, that's kinda weird, no? Maybe you should prod me about that? Okay, and how do I respond?

"Oh hm, good point Eragon, yeah that's a little weird maybe this isn't a great wagon and I should unvote and look elsehwere. Do you have any thoughts on this other person?" Okay, that's pretty towny on a generic level, you can probably feel better about me from that.

"Uh, didn't think about it, it's not important so whatever." That's kinda scummy on a generic level, no? Maybe want to keep a closer eye on me.

"Well I have A, B, C, D, E reasons and listen to all this babble about how complicated this situation is and all of the great lengths I went to to figure things out." Hummmm, that feels kinda played up, you might think, yeah?

The game is all about figuring things out and the way people go about trying to do that is super important. Questioning is right up there with analysis as far as getting a read on someone is concerned, I think.

Anyway, digression aside, I did have a similar thought to you about stan's post, but I liked where he was coming from more than not and put that bit aside to keep tabs on as the game progresses. I'm sort of in wait-and-see mode with him. He's been following me around a little, but he's also had his own take on things, so I'm not like, super worried? It's pretty early and if he keeps up like this then I think I'll have a pretty good bead on him by the time we near the end of the phase. Plus, if he's mafia and he's clearing townies for us then that's never a bad thing.

[Formerfish]

could you explain what transparency is?[/spoiler]

So like, imagine you've got a curtain, and behind the curtain is a big fat messy glob of brainjuice containing all your thoughts about the game. Everyone has their own special and unique glob of brainjuice, is part of being human. When you talk about things in the game, you're extracting stuff from your brainjuices and presenting them to rest of the game, basically by parting the curtain a little and sharing a little sample.

In it's most extreme form, you just make the curtain entirely see-through and everyone can just see all of your brainjuice, it's spilling out everywhere and it's kind of disgusting and no one really wants to look at it but it's also sorta compelling and they can't help but look. Practically speaking, though, it's kinda helpful to form your thoughts about things in a coherent way so that other people don't have to do a lot of work to figure out what the heck all that juice shit is that's happening. That would be, like, making a big ol' soup and when you come out the curtain parts and everyone can take a bit of a look at the big messy yucky glob and then they're given this delicious soup to eat and drink and they kinda get the best of both worlds. A bit of a view of the messy shit behind the curtain and a nice taste of coherency, and they can tell that that soup came from that glob because they can see that both have the same qualities, child like mother.

Thing is, if you're mafia, your brainjuice isn't like everyone else's. Your brainjuice is all contained in a neat little vat and there's nothing messy about it. It has air bubbles and shit, it's basically curated. So when you're bringing out your soup and ladle, people will see the vat behind the curtain and they'll be like, what? Who are you? And like, mafia can dress up their brainjuice and try to make it all messy, they can have these delicious soup recipes to feed everyone, but when it comes down to it, when they're doing the "transparent" thing and showing everyone what they think, there's no foundation to it, all they have is a silly-looking vat, they had to invent everything to make it seem like other people's ugly crap, they can't really part the curtain because if they do then people will notice that there's a disconnect between the soup and what's behind. And they're kinda smug about it, too, more often than not, you know. Power and secrecy does things to people.

Makey sense?

I think I love this.

[IcemanCh]

1) What sort of activity can we expect from you this game? My goal is to be very active. So far I'm failing. I want to try to do be in the mix as much as possible.
2) Have you played forum mafia before, and if so, where, and how has that informed your play? I've played three games here and several TOS games on another non-mafia centric site.
3) Do you prefer hunting mafia or manipulating town, and why? I prefer manipulating town. Mostly cause I'm bad at it and want to get better.

[OkaPoka]

but do you policy lynch ics?

[IcemanCh]

UNVOTE:


I'm shocked that no one pointed out that FF was at L-2 from RVS. It took 2 pages?

So far I'm leaning Town on trinity. I've seen her scum game..... this game she feels more natural.

[Eragon]

could you explain what transparency is?[/spoiler]

So like, imagine you've got a curtain, and behind the curtain is a big fat messy glob of brainjuice containing all your thoughts about the game. Everyone has their own special and unique glob of brainjuice, is part of being human. When you talk about things in the game, you're extracting stuff from your brainjuices and presenting them to rest of the game, basically by parting the curtain a little and sharing a little sample.

In it's most extreme form, you just make the curtain entirely see-through and everyone can just see all of your brainjuice, it's spilling out everywhere and it's kind of disgusting and no one really wants to look at it but it's also sorta compelling and they can't help but look. Practically speaking, though, it's kinda helpful to form your thoughts about things in a coherent way so that other people don't have to do a lot of work to figure out what the heck all that juice shit is that's happening. That would be, like, making a big ol' soup and when you come out the curtain parts and everyone can take a bit of a look at the big messy yucky glob and then they're given this delicious soup to eat and drink and they kinda get the best of both worlds. A bit of a view of the messy shit behind the curtain and a nice taste of coherency, and they can tell that that soup came from that glob because they can see that both have the same qualities, child like mother.

Thing is, if you're mafia, your brainjuice isn't like everyone else's. Your brainjuice is all contained in a neat little vat and there's nothing messy about it. It has air bubbles and shit, it's basically curated. So when you're bringing out your soup and ladle, people will see the vat behind the curtain and they'll be like, what? Who are you? And like, mafia can dress up their brainjuice and try to make it all messy, they can have these delicious soup recipes to feed everyone, but when it comes down to it, when they're doing the "transparent" thing and showing everyone what they think, there's no foundation to it, all they have is a silly-looking vat, they had to invent everything to make it seem like other people's ugly crap, they can't really part the curtain because if they do then people will notice that there's a disconnect between the soup and what's behind. And they're kinda smug about it, too, more often than not, you know. Power and secrecy does things to people.

Makey sense?

so Tl;dr

Paint blob A is town
Paint blob B is scum

Paint blob A is all spread around and messy and a thin layer because it is spread and lots of different things coursing through it and wild

Paint blob b is neatly within the lines because the person is wary about going outside of the lines?

[Eragon]

honestly, even if this sounds like sheeping...
I agree with ever single point you made, except...
I dont think Oka asking questions is AI and,
while Stan feels relaxed, his trinity read could be based off a little TMI and coming from scum, so I dont think that is AI either[/spoiler]

Sorta disagree. I think there's a lot of alignment information in the way someone asks questions and what they get from those questions.

Like, take our wagons in the last votal.

Formerfish (3) - OkaPoka, IcemanCh, TrinityNZ
Flicker (2) - nancy, Stan1ey
IcemanCh (1) - Formerfish
stan1ey (1) - SargeAlpha

Not Voting (2) - Eragon, Flicker

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

So I'm a little wary of SA, right? Let's say SA votes Iceman, and a bit later I vote Iceman too. Now, why am I voting with someone who I think could be mafia? Is that a weird thing from me? Well, the way you figure that out is a) look at what I've done to figure out Iceman's alignment, b) look at what I've done to figure out SA's alignment, c) ask me questions about either/both if you're not satisfied with my process.

If I've just hopped on with SA and not done anything to figure him out or to figure out why he's on that wagon, that's kinda weird, no? Maybe you should prod me about that? Okay, and how do I respond?

"Oh hm, good point Eragon, yeah that's a little weird maybe this isn't a great wagon and I should unvote and look elsehwere. Do you have any thoughts on this other person?" Okay, that's pretty towny on a generic level, you can probably feel better about me from that.

"Uh, didn't think about it, it's not important so whatever." That's kinda scummy on a generic level, no? Maybe want to keep a closer eye on me.

"Well I have A, B, C, D, E reasons and listen to all this babble about how complicated this situation is and all of the great lengths I went to to figure things out." Hummmm, that feels kinda played up, you might think, yeah?

The game is all about figuring things out and the way people go about trying to do that is super important. Questioning is right up there with analysis as far as getting a read on someone is concerned, I think.

Anyway, digression aside, I did have a similar thought to you about stan's post, but I liked where he was coming from more than not and put that bit aside to keep tabs on as the game progresses. I'm sort of in wait-and-see mode with him. He's been following me around a little, but he's also had his own take on things, so I'm not like, super worried? It's pretty early and if he keeps up like this then I think I'll have a pretty good bead on him by the time we near the end of the phase. Plus, if he's mafia and he's clearing townies for us then that's never a bad thing.

um. ok.
more what I meant was the specific questions Oka was asking, not asking questions in general.

also, I agree with you on Stan, he shouldn't be townread based on his town!trinity post, but neither should he be considered scum.
NAI if you will

[Eragon]

1) What sort of activity can we expect from you this game? My goal is to be very active. So far I'm failing. I want to try to do be in the mix as much as possible.
2) Have you played forum mafia before, and if so, where, and how has that informed your play? I've played three games here and several TOS games on another non-mafia centric site.
3) Do you prefer hunting mafia or manipulating town, and why? I prefer manipulating town. Mostly cause I'm bad at it and want to get better.

oh your homesite is ToS?

[IcemanCh]

but do you policy lynch ics?

Trying to pull up a bunch of other stuff but I'll answer this now since you've asked twice.

On D1 or D2 no. After that I think you should yes. Here is why.

As a town player and IC is just a more experienced player to help find scum. To me they only have a slight advantage although most of that is lost because new players can be a pain in the ass.

As a scum player they are like a super heros. They can easily sway new players into confusion and mislynches. There is a much bigger advantage to a scum!IC.

I also feel like scum is going to night kill the active/most experienced players first. So it brings in the whole..... why is the IC still alive after a few nights?


I just think that a town!IC makes LYLO super difficult.


Of course if we have a strong read on someone other then the IC we would lynch them instead.

Tldr..... If we have no super strong roads then IC should be lynched before LYLO.

[IcemanCh]

1) What sort of activity can we expect from you this game? My goal is to be very active. So far I'm failing. I want to try to do be in the mix as much as possible.
2) Have you played forum mafia before, and if so, where, and how has that informed your play? I've played three games here and several TOS games on another non-mafia centric site.
3) Do you prefer hunting mafia or manipulating town, and why? I prefer manipulating town. Mostly cause I'm bad at it and want to get better.

oh your homesite is ToS?

No.....

I'm a super nerd that plays EVE. My alliance has a forum and we play TOS in the a sub forum. Lots of fun but they are usually super gimmicky with a ton of PRs.

[nancy]

"just tunneling on stupid nonsense and yelling at each other,"
-is it ok if I quote you on this in my sig?

Lmao, I mean you can if you really want to, not until the game ends though.

[Formerfish]

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Now that nancy's responded, I want to know: What was the point of

this

question? You don't seem to have a problem with them, given you answered them (in post 18, although with less detail than basically everyone else). It also seems fairly obvious that at least one of the ways nancy uses them is for hunting, given how she'd already started sorting people based on their answers (12, 15). Plus, it seems a little off to me how it took you so long to wonder about them.

because some people like to play RQS over RVS and usually RQS ends up with a stalled game with no where to go because game quickly devolves into asking questions about NAI things.

Hey, @FF @stan @Trinity, does this feel like a scum-scum interaction to you? Feel free to punt on it.

I think they are both overreacting to the situation. Oka seems to have played a game with RQS in it, as he stated how games turn out after they appear. So he would know what nancy was doing and why. The questions are pretty standard, and didn't oka answer them himself?

Flicker is giving off a scum caught for reasons they cant believe they were caught for, so they think they should lash out and play like really aggressively. I dont like their play here at all so far.

Could they be the scum team here? Meh... If I were to guess which was scum if it was 50/50 it'd be flicker right now (and just an aside. I find it weird that you corrected me in a post when I was unsure of your gender so I used a general term to address you. Like I didn't call you a dude. And its not a huge thing, just seemed odd to make your priority with my posting.)

[OkaPoka]

or as a scum player they can do exactly what you are doing, leading an inexperienced town to have extreme paranoia against an ic and get a free mislynch

[nancy]

trinity is town because i don't see a new player interact that much and be scum

nancy ur town because i don't see you interacting that much to be scum

stanley feels like a rational town player

---

i thought trinity might have been scum with the rvs vote thing she did on FF but i don't think so anymore, mainly because i think her not understanding it was l2 seems genuine

flicker seems a bit defensive but nothing concrete yet

former is town because reasons

---
unvoted because we are out of rvs

and ill read that eragon post later

Hum. What interactions are you looking at from Trinity?

"Because reasons", rip, I cry forever.

[OkaPoka]

also i don't think ive played a game with rqs with it i just read some theory in MD about rvs vs rqs so i was seeing what nancy was going for here

[nancy]

Distancing alpha-omega Blueline 42 Redbull between flicker and Oka?

Oh my god.

[OkaPoka]

call me lazy but i was looking for trinity to either contradict herself or say something like "yeah i was being sarcastic and i knew i was putting formerfish at l2 just doing it for the shits and giggles xd"

[nancy]

that's a lot of effort for an analogy

I'm very weird.

[Formerfish]

huh?

Your unvote is weird.

Why was it weird? He just pointed out that trinity voting brought me to l-2, and his vote was on me as well. Since his vote on me was in rvs and we are clearly out of it, it would make sense to move or at least remove a rvs vote which is currently the leading wagon based solely off of rvs votes.

[OkaPoka]

yeah ff is town

[nancy]

This is..... I think.... the most beautiful post I've ever seen. The use of brain juice is amazing.

Also, you are either the best scum player ever or you are town. I'm going to lean town but I think ICs should always be lynched before LYLO.


I'm catching up and I really like your display of reads. I think it is a bit complicated and I need something to decipher it but the concept is cool.

Making me blush. Also, lmao at lynching IC's before lylo. Iceman pls.

God I'm having too much fun.

[Formerfish]

has iceman even posted?


also, I dont like the fact that you are asking about a scumteam of 2 people(that might be newbies. I dont know) and have had almost zero thread presence

C'mon, its not a huge deal to make that joke. And Iceman had posted at that point, mostly to say that he wasn't forgetting about the game. He seems to be here now. I have like 2 games played with him recently. We'll see whats up with him.