Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[nancy]

UNVOTE:


I'm shocked that no one pointed out that FF was at L-2 from RVS. It took 2 pages?

So far I'm leaning Town on trinity. I've seen her scum game..... this game she feels more natural.

It's honestly not a big deal for someone to be at L-2.

[IcemanCh]

or as a scum player they can do exactly what you are doing, leading an inexperienced town to have extreme paranoia against an ic and get a free mislynch

I think you are stretching what I'm saying.

[OkaPoka]

what im saying is experienced scum can easily pull of IC lynches

I also feel like scum is going to night kill the active/most experienced players first. So it brings in the whole..... why is the IC still alive after a few nights?

i mean these can probably be the exact words some scum SE's use when they want to lynch an IC

[IcemanCh]

Meh. I've said something similar in every game I've played so far.

[nancy]

so Tl;dr

Paint blob A is town
Paint blob B is scum

Paint blob A is all spread around and messy and a thin layer because it is spread and lots of different things coursing through it and wild

Paint blob b is neatly within the lines because the person is wary about going outside of the lines?

tl;dr transparency is showing your work. "I think X is town." Leave it there, you're not being transparent. "I had A, B, C thoughts/feelings that led me to think X is town." That's transparency. "I can't seem to articulate why but I think X is town, here are posts that made me feel things." Also transparency.

[Eragon]

but do you policy lynch ics?

Trying to pull up a bunch of other stuff but I'll answer this now since you've asked twice.

On D1 or D2 no. After that I think you should yes. Here is why.

As a town player and IC is just a more experienced player to help find scum. To me they only have a slight advantage although most of that is lost because new players can be a pain in the ass.

As a scum player they are like a super heros. They can easily sway new players into confusion and mislynches. There is a much bigger advantage to a scum!IC.

I also feel like scum is going to night kill the active/most experienced players first. So it brings in the whole..... why is the IC still alive after a few nights?


I just think that a town!IC makes LYLO super difficult.


Of course if we have a strong read on someone other then the IC we would lynch them instead.

Tldr..... If we have no super strong roads then IC should be lynched before LYLO.

did you think about scum killing people for other reasons?

Scum can kill someone for many reasons
1.they townread scum
2. they are correct on their reads
3. they are towny and won't get lynched but are likely to not have TP on them

while attacking IC leads to the possibility of hitting a TP

(on top of the fact that Nancy has been very towny)

im not saying we absolutely follow every word they say, im just saying we dont PL them because they are an IC, a good player, and didnt die early...

[nancy]

but do you policy lynch ics?

Trying to pull up a bunch of other stuff but I'll answer this now since you've asked twice.

On D1 or D2 no. After that I think you should yes. Here is why.

As a town player and IC is just a more experienced player to help find scum. To me they only have a slight advantage although most of that is lost because new players can be a pain in the ass.

As a scum player they are like a super heros. They can easily sway new players into confusion and mislynches. There is a much bigger advantage to a scum!IC.

I also feel like scum is going to night kill the active/most experienced players first. So it brings in the whole..... why is the IC still alive after a few nights?


I just think that a town!IC makes LYLO super difficult.


Of course if we have a strong read on someone other then the IC we would lynch them instead.

Tldr..... If we have no super strong roads then IC should be lynched before LYLO.

No, Iceman. You don't treat the IC different to any other player in the game as far as their alignment goes. If someone who is very town and proactive doesn't die, that can be reason to suspect them. Like, why are you still alive, you're never getting lynched in this game according to people's reads and you're trying to solve the game with us, why do scum not want you dead? If the answer isn't "well they've been hard defending scum all game and tunneling on townies" then it very well might be "well they're mafia". Or they might just be town anyway and mafia didn't kill them because they're silly.

That's never a reason to just close your eyes and policy lynch them. You don't do that with anyone, IC or no. Can't really overemphasize this point, it's a mind-numbingly stupid, obscenely -EV thing to do.

[Eragon]

1) What sort of activity can we expect from you this game? My goal is to be very active. So far I'm failing. I want to try to do be in the mix as much as possible.
2) Have you played forum mafia before, and if so, where, and how has that informed your play? I've played three games here and several TOS games on another non-mafia centric site.
3) Do you prefer hunting mafia or manipulating town, and why? I prefer manipulating town. Mostly cause I'm bad at it and want to get better.

oh your homesite is ToS?

No.....

I'm a super nerd that plays EVE. My alliance has a forum and we play TOS in the a sub forum. Lots of fun but they are usually super gimmicky with a ton of PRs.

oh ok

"just tunneling on stupid nonsense and yelling at each other,"
-is it ok if I quote you on this in my sig?

Lmao, I mean you can if you really want to, not until the game ends though.

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Now that nancy's responded, I want to know: What was the point of

this

question? You don't seem to have a problem with them, given you answered them (in post 18, although with less detail than basically everyone else). It also seems fairly obvious that at least one of the ways nancy uses them is for hunting, given how she'd already started sorting people based on their answers (12, 15). Plus, it seems a little off to me how it took you so long to wonder about them.

because some people like to play RQS over RVS and usually RQS ends up with a stalled game with no where to go because game quickly devolves into asking questions about NAI things.

Hey, @FF @stan @Trinity, does this feel like a scum-scum interaction to you? Feel free to punt on it.

I think they are both overreacting to the situation. Oka seems to have played a game with RQS in it, as he stated how games turn out after they appear. So he would know what nancy was doing and why. The questions are pretty standard, and didn't oka answer them himself?

Flicker is giving off a scum caught for reasons they cant believe they were caught for, so they think they should lash out and play like really aggressively. I dont like their play here at all so far.

Could they be the scum team here? Meh... If I were to guess which was scum if it was 50/50 it'd be flicker right now (and just an aside. I find it weird that you corrected me in a post when I was unsure of your gender so I used a general term to address you. Like I didn't call you a dude. And its not a huge thing, just seemed odd to make your priority with my posting.)

town

has iceman even posted?


also, I dont like the fact that you are asking about a scumteam of 2 people(that might be newbies. I dont know) and have had almost zero thread presence

C'mon, its not a huge deal to make that joke. And Iceman had posted at that point, mostly to say that he wasn't forgetting about the game. He seems to be here now. I have like 2 games played with him recently. We'll see whats up with him.

what joke??

[Eragon]

so Tl;dr

Paint blob A is town
Paint blob B is scum

Paint blob A is all spread around and messy and a thin layer because it is spread and lots of different things coursing through it and wild

Paint blob b is neatly within the lines because the person is wary about going outside of the lines?

tl;dr transparency is showing your work. "I think X is town." Leave it there, you're not being transparent. "I had A, B, C thoughts/feelings that led me to think X is town." That's transparency. "I can't seem to articulate why but I think X is town, here are posts that made me feel things." Also transparency.

got it

[nancy]

(and just an aside. I find it weird that you corrected me in a post when I was unsure of your gender so I used a general term to address you. Like I didn't call you a dude. And its not a huge thing, just seemed odd to make your priority with my posting.)

Uh, I don't think that's weird at all and it's perfectly within anyone's right to insist on how people gender them. Is not your place to find it weird how other people engage with their own gender. Am not really sure what the point of this aside is since this isn't even remotely game-related. I really don't want anyone to feel like they can't speak up for themselves this game.

[nancy]

call me lazy but i was looking for trinity to either contradict herself or say something like "yeah i was being sarcastic and i knew i was putting formerfish at l2 just doing it for the shits and giggles xd"

You're so lazy!!!!

(I don't really think you're lazy.

Okay, maybe a little lazy. <3)

[nancy]

huh?

Your unvote is weird.

Why was it weird? He just pointed out that trinity voting brought me to l-2, and his vote was on me as well. Since his vote on me was in rvs and we are clearly out of it, it would make sense to move or at least remove a rvs vote which is currently the leading wagon based solely off of rvs votes.

Naked unvotes are wolfy.

It's slightly a meme.

Are you always this... logical?

[nancy]

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Now that nancy's responded, I want to know: What was the point of

this

question? You don't seem to have a problem with them, given you answered them (in post 18, although with less detail than basically everyone else). It also seems fairly obvious that at least one of the ways nancy uses them is for hunting, given how she'd already started sorting people based on their answers (12, 15). Plus, it seems a little off to me how it took you so long to wonder about them.

because some people like to play RQS over RVS and usually RQS ends up with a stalled game with no where to go because game quickly devolves into asking questions about NAI things.

Hey, @FF @stan @Trinity, does this feel like a scum-scum interaction to you? Feel free to punt on it.

I think they are both overreacting to the situation. Oka seems to have played a game with RQS in it, as he stated how games turn out after they appear. So he would know what nancy was doing and why. The questions are pretty standard, and didn't oka answer them himself?

Flicker is giving off a scum caught for reasons they cant believe they were caught for, so they think they should lash out and play like really aggressively. I dont like their play here at all so far.

Could they be the scum team here? Meh... If I were to guess which was scum if it was 50/50 it'd be flicker right now (and just an aside. I find it weird that you corrected me in a post when I was unsure of your gender so I used a general term to address you. Like I didn't call you a dude. And its not a huge thing, just seemed odd to make your priority with my posting.)

town

Talk to me about this, Eragon? Am not really sure I'm seeing the same thing you're seeing.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: iceman

ill leave it here because i have no idea what you would want to policy lynch an IC and simultaneously compliment them

I don't like this vote from you Oka. Iceman is a newbie and he is going to have some newbie ideas. I remember the days of my first few games and I thought that I was going to change the world. I was going to make people play the game the way I thought it should be best played. I was going to lynch people to make them active and to make them change their evil ways by leading lynches on them no matter what. The idea that an IC shouldnt last very long in the game isn't without merit. Think about it. If IC is town they are the best player for town because of experience, scum will want to kill them to try and deny town their best player. If IC is scum they are never going to be killed if everyone just town reads the IC because they are teaching the game.

Most of the time getting to lynch an IC before endgame doesn't happen because scum kills them early, but when you think about it an IC playing late into the game is something to be suspect about. I don't think that there are many scum teams out there playing the long con with the IC and getting away with it, ya know?

[nancy]

@Flicker would super super appreciate your thoughts on players other than OkaPoka right now.

[Eragon]

I know its weak but I like the fact that he is putting his opinion out there on someone(flicker) who seems like mis-lynch bait and/or noob town(sorry flicker) without trying to strong-arm the Lynch.
If I were scum id likely be trying to strong-arm a flicker mis-lynch based on some posts

[Eragon]

I like that FF is putting reasons out and explaining some scummy things he sees of Flicker, without trying to manipulate the entire town and strong-arm the Lynch

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: iceman

ill leave it here because i have no idea what you would want to policy lynch an IC and simultaneously compliment them

I don't like this vote from you Oka. Iceman is a newbie and he is going to have some newbie ideas. I remember the days of my first few games and I thought that I was going to change the world. I was going to make people play the game the way I thought it should be best played. I was going to lynch people to make them active and to make them change their evil ways by leading lynches on them no matter what. The idea that an IC shouldnt last very long in the game isn't without merit. Think about it. If IC is town they are the best player for town because of experience, scum will want to kill them to try and deny town their best player. If IC is scum they are never going to be killed if everyone just town reads the IC because they are teaching the game.

Most of the time getting to lynch an IC before endgame doesn't happen because scum kills them early, but when you think about it an IC playing late into the game is something to be suspect about. I don't think that there are many scum teams out there playing the long con with the IC and getting away with it, ya know?

maybe he is town but im not getting many scumreads rn and i feel like his post on nancy is fake and the comment on IC's sounds like he wants to keep his lynch options open

[OkaPoka]

it feels like it was phrased in a way that allows iceman to build upon it later to attack nancy w/o really needing to build a legitimate in game case on her

like instead of saying something about nancy feels off, feels like she is controlling town he goes with the proposition that cannot really be argued against

[Formerfish]

or as a scum player they can do exactly what you are doing, leading an inexperienced town to have extreme paranoia against an ic and get a free mislynch

Bro this is a bad line of thinking you are allowing yourself to go down. Its basically saying that someone is town until they are not. I played a game as scum where I was getting run up and went with a doc claim as a fake. I knew that my time was limited because after the first night of not dying and laughing it off to those wacky scumbags and their wifomy choices I had a much harder time explaining it the next day. By the 3rd i was a lynch no matter what. My role in that game after my claim was to cause as much damage as I could in the time I had.

Again, scum will usually kill town!ICs before we can ever get really suspicious of them. If they are alive long enough for us to be suspicious they deserve a closer look.

Ninjas everywhere: This full catch up is taking me a lot longer then anticipated. I apologize im like spamming the thread from a few pages ago, its my 1st day off in a week, I have my daughter and im chasing after her a bit, and sometimes I forget im making a post and then just post it without looking at all the ones posted in the meantime because im still a page behind those.

[OkaPoka]

alright then who do you suggest i put my vote on and why?

[Eragon]

ST-{none}
T-{Formerfish, Nancy}
LT-{Trinity, Stan1ey
N-{Sargealpha}
NS-{oka, flicker, iceman}
S-{none}

I dont have any ST because I normally reserve that bracket for either
1. confirmed town
2. I can't see any way at all they ever ever flip scum

And I dont have any solid SR's rn so none in the S bracket

[Formerfish]

what im saying is experienced scum can easily pull of IC lynches

I also feel like scum is going to night kill the active/most experienced players first. So it brings in the whole..... why is the IC still alive after a few nights?

i mean these can probably be the exact words some scum SE's use when they want to lynch an IC

And what he is saying is that only when an IC is alive on like day 3 should you look into them more and think about them as a viable lynch candidate based on the fact that scum didnt kill them night 1 or 2. He is not saying that the IC gets powerlynched on day 1 on page 4 because they could hurt us if they arent town so we might as well bite the bullet now and throw the baby out with the bathwater. Stop trying to make it seem like Iceman is about to run a train on nancy. Sorry for the visuals there.

[Formerfish]

what joke??

Oka made a joke about the scum team being the 2 people who havent really posted much. In a newbie that could very well be what happens sometimes. Town has a want to get out there and meet each other. We want to size each other up, really get each others weight. We can only really do that by being right next to them, or as I know it to be called, dancing. This is how I town hunt and where I get my reads from. Scum has to be weary of everything they do each time they interact with people because its all a lie. What scum says to one person they have to say to all, and when you are lying lies tend to build on themselves until there is this invisible web. Then you have town people who start to dive into every word someone has posted and you start to see the web being built over time. Thats why is so hard for scum to hide forever, and why newbie scum try to hide until they cant anymore.

[Formerfish]

(and just an aside. I find it weird that you corrected me in a post when I was unsure of your gender so I used a general term to address you. Like I didn't call you a dude. And its not a huge thing, just seemed odd to make your priority with my posting.)

Uh, I don't think that's weird at all and it's perfectly within anyone's right to insist on how people gender them. Is not your place to find it weird how other people engage with their own gender. Am not really sure what the point of this aside is since this isn't even remotely game-related. I really don't want anyone to feel like they can't speak up for themselves this game.

I mean I guess this might not be the best place for this and I apologize for being it up in the first place, but I just felt like I had been chastised for something I didn't feel I had really done. We don't need to talk about it anymore right now.