Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[OkaPoka]

though tbh im starting to doubt a lot of my solid townreads, i think nancy is my only solid townread left, everything else is shifting towards null or scum

Um, why?

people aren't doing things im expecting them to do

[nancy]

we all have our preferences.

No, like, it's a sitemeta thing. We don't claim at L-2 here. People sometimes claim early out of frustration or stupidity or something, but if you're sane and in a sane game you don't claim before you're actually seriously threatened with a lynch, which is at L-1, when someone is thinking about putting the last vote down to kill you.

[nancy]

though tbh im starting to doubt a lot of my solid townreads, i think nancy is my only solid townread left, everything else is shifting towards null or scum

Um, why?

people aren't doing things im expecting them to do

Could you be more specific please?

[Eragon]

we all have our preferences.

No, like, it's a sitemeta thing. We don't claim at L-2 here. People sometimes claim early out of frustration or stupidity or something, but if you're sane and in a sane game you don't claim before you're actually seriously threatened with a lynch, which is at L-1, when someone is thinking about putting the last vote down to kill you.

ok.

[OkaPoka]

i guess ill do some examples
eragon - would be expecting more action from him trying to push any possible scumreads but he seems reserved and not willing to take in the action
stanley- he is being inactive so isn't weighing in on recent issues
flicker - this read is fluctuating based on how much i trust other people's reads and now that im doubting things im moving this towards nuller
ff - im expecting more dialogue from him attacking me or someone else, meta reads are dumb i know but the town!ff i know is more active in attacking his scumreads and harsher towards others

pedit: bada bing bada boom

[nancy]

ST-{none}
T-{Formerfish, Nancy}
LT-{Stan1ey, Quick}
N-{Trinity}
NS-{oka, flicker, iceman}
S-{none}

not much different, im liking iceman less and trinity was moved down
I put quick in LT because I dont think scum would draw too much attention to themselves for not reading the thread and it feel natural

I don't mean just a readlist, I mean words about where your head is at with the game.

Like, you've posted about a bunch of stuff and I've agreed with a lot of what you've had to say but when I think about your reads and how you got to them I kind of come up empty? Also just kind of don't have a sense of what you're actually doing here to solve the game, feels a bit like you're just showing up and commenting on everything but not doing a whole lot else and it's worrying me.

ok, so basically like explaining my reads?

Lmao basically yes.

[Eragon]

i understand what explaining is, i was just kinda confused by what nancy meant with what are your head-thoughts in the game or something like that.

give me 10-15 minutes for overall

[nancy]

Um, where your head is at means like, how you're doing as far as solving the game, how you feel about the gamestate, how you feel about your reads, what reads you feel good about and don't feel good about, stuff like that.

[Quick]

OK, I did a one over on Ice. he seems to be saying stuff without really saying much. Lot of talk about the IC. Didn't like that he would PL the IC if they were alive D3. That's probably the most notable thing I saw.

Explain saying stuff without saying much and what that means about his alignment for you? Why don't you like the PL thing?

Looking back on his ISO, I guess it wasn't so much that he was saying stuff without really saying anything, but more that he just has these kind of simple statements that people ask him about and that makes up a lot of his content. As far as saying stuff without really saying anything being Scummy, it's a way to pad your post count to make it look like you are contributing to the game more than you actually are. It's a tell common on my homesite, PerC.

As far as other things I don't like about Ice, his case on me is pretty bad if I am being honest. It's basically just one thing he is SRing me for and it's something that I don't think is AI.

but do you policy lynch ics?

Trying to pull up a bunch of other stuff but I'll answer this now since you've asked twice.

On D1 or D2 no. After that I think you should yes. Here is why.

As a town player and IC is just a more experienced player to help find scum. To me they only have a slight advantage although most of that is lost because new players can be a pain in the ass.

As a scum player they are like a super heros. They can easily sway new players into confusion and mislynches. There is a much bigger advantage to a scum!IC.

I also feel like scum is going to night kill the active/most experienced players first. So it brings in the whole..... why is the IC still alive after a few nights?


I just think that a town!IC makes LYLO super difficult.


Of course if we have a strong read on someone other then the IC we would lynch them instead.

Tldr..... If we have no super strong roads then IC should be lynched before LYLO.

PLing is reserved for play that is blatately Anti-Town and it's been demonstraighted that there is a pattern of this. Ice is basically making the argument that IC's have a BoP, which is asanine since I don't think anyone has a BoP and secondly he is assuming ALL IC's opperate this way, which is kinda disgusting. You should vote people based on if they are Scummy or not, not because they just happen to still be in the game. It's completely backwards logic.

The votes moved from FF to Flicker and who FF and Flicker are voting for.

FF might have gotten caught early and then talked his way out of things. That said, I have known him to be lynchbait, but a really good player, so I have a Null read on that dynamic of the game, however, because both Flicker and FF are voting the same person who seems to have produced a wagon out of nowhere seems pretty suspect to me.

Also, Nacy's post on this page seem to have Town tone and I know Nancy to be a pretty good Town player and they are voting for Flicker. I need to look into Stan1ey's progression and vote on Flicker more, but that is where I am at atm.

I feel like you didn't really read the thread at all and just skimmed. That's kind of scummy. Everyone knew/agreed that the wagon on FF was RVS.

Quick, read game pls thx

Don't really want to. I usually don't even replace into games with 200+ posts, so you're lucky to have me as it is.

This is horrible.....

Soo....... I feel like OKa is a bad or scum. Not sure which.

I also think Trinity is town. She's new and clunky but, I've played a few games with her and nothing seems scummy so far. I've seen her play scum and.... well you'd know.

I really want to vote quick and get quick lynched.

To me

only scum

would come in and throw up their hands and say I'm not reading anything. Here's a vote count. Here's my reads. Don't worry those cause my reads are garbage because I didn't actually read anything.

If town came in and refused to read the game they wouldn't then turn around and give reads.

I also think Oka is pushing mis-lynches. Trying to snag the easiest ones.

Weird that he's not jumping on Quick as that seems the easiest to me at the moment.

ONLY Scum do that? Orly? I think I pointed out to someone that just because I haven't caught up doesn't mean that that is Scummy, it just means that people haven't seen Town do that before, or they are just trying to push that as Scummy. I have seen lots of Town not catch up after replacing in.. It's not Scummy at all. Some people make a that their regular way of replacing in, Titus being one example. Also, I didn't say nor imply any of what Ice is pushing on me.

Soo....... I feel like OKa is a bad or scum. Not sure which.

I also think Trinity is town. She's new and clunky but, I've played a few games with her and nothing seems scummy so far. I've seen her play scum and.... well you'd know.

I really want to vote quick and get quick lynched. To me only scum would come in and throw up their hands and say I'm not reading anything. Here's a vote count. Here's my reads. Don't worry those cause my reads are garbage because I didn't actually read anything. If town came in and refused to read the game they wouldn't then turn around and give reads.

I also think Oka is pushing mis-lynches. Trying to snag the easiest ones. Weird that he's not jumping on Quick as that seems the easiest to me at the moment.

SRing me because I am not caught up is a horrible reason to SR someone. Like, seriously?

I think I'm a bit lost at the moment. I've lost my town read on Nancy..... Please Nancy come back to town. I wanna believe. She seems to have just faded a bit and is just poking holes in everything. Not necessarily a bad thing but, doesn't seem like the way things started at first.

Trinity, Go take a look at some of FFs other games. His play this game seems exactly like his town play. I'll go looking for one of his scum games and compare though because I've only played with town!FF.

Quick, I'm not sure what to ask you..... Have your reads changed? Not sure if the answer is worth it.

Oka, I don't mean to restate this but, you really seem to be looking for the easiest lynches instead of looking for scum. I don't like it. Also, what do you think about quick?

FF, do you think that Oka is a better lynch then Quick and why?

I am still developing reads. I probably will not get fully caught up and you saying that is Scummy is odd to me.

I'm SR you because you refuse to get caught up. That triggers me as a scum thing to do. Even if you are being obvious in announcing that you won't be catching up.

Why is that Scummy? It's not, you've just never come across anyone who doesn't catch up as Town. In fact, it sounds like this whole read is based on the theory of what YOU would do as Town Scum instead of actually looking at why I have taken this course of action. Theory reads don't get you that far actually, and I've known Scum to use them more than Town, so...

This was never answered. Instead, we see the following two posts where Ice goes Straight to putting me as his biggest SR to promply voting for me shortly after that.

is anyone else scumreading trinity? I feel a bit lonely. i know ice has made an indication.

In isolation to this game the best I could do so far is neutral. So far my scale is below.


Town - nancy Formerfish
Lean Town - Ergon
Nuetral - Trinity Flicker Stanley
Lean Scum - Oka
Scum - Quick

I really hope you have other reasons for SRing me besides "Quick isn't getting caught up!!1!!1!1one"

I guess I hadn't voted.

VOTE: Quick

I'm putting my vote here for now. I don't like what's happened so far. I will change my opinion after Quick has made some solid reads/effort that is at least not anti-town.

His case is so weak I can't even believe it's a thing, let alone something to make someone a top SR.

VOTE: Ice

[Eragon]

Iceman:

I havent seen much content from him except saying he wants to PL the IC if they are alive late game, and calling quick scum for not reading the thread. Overall it seems like he has been pushing on the little things and reaching for some things, and I’m not getting good vibes from his post. All this being said, based on his experience level(i think) he could also be Noob!town

Stan1ey:

I would love to see more activity from him because I think his posts are pretty towny, but he’s only had 9 posts in the game, so I cant give him much more than a light town read.

Flicker:

Starts off kinda awkward IMO, and I don’t really like their “scrutinization” posts, plus their SR on Oka feels kinda forced and reaching(like on the push about Oka asking questions, I mean ???) also when they posted their reads most of the Reads are very weak.

Reads Nancy towny for being active
Reads Iceman town for pointing out good Info
Reads FF as town for Mindmelding
Reads me as town for attitude
Reads Trinity as town for weirdness and votes
Reads Stan1ey as null for “sheeping”?
Reads Quick as null for the reading

And I think its odd that they have a town pile of 6 people and the other 2 are null pile?
So no SR’s?

Trinity:

I think her posts are fairly natural, there have been a few pings back and forth such as the “I don’t SR him… Yet” post and their defense of Oka, instead of trying to counter the read or Prove it wrong, they brush it off like its nothing and just say that “scum must be happy watching us argue” and more or less OMGUS’ing on Oka by saying his push is scummy.
I also didn’t like their post saying “Yes, finally, someone else seeing scum in FF”

Their posts seem scummy but their tone feels natural, so thats why they are a null read for me

Quick:

Really don’t have a great read on them but I don’t think they would bring this much attention to themselves for not reading the thread if they were scum. This is by far one of my weaker reads, but I’m soul-reading them as light town

OkaPoka:

In the beginning he felt pretty good, but then I don’t really like him pushing the noobs that have low thread presence and likely will have a harder time defending themselves. It kinda seems like he is trying to pull of an easier mis-lynch than trying to Lynch someone like Nancy or FF. I also don’t like “at this point im just waiting for the replacement to sarge to replace in and say something so i can vote them lol” also he seems to be really wishy-washy on his reads, like on trinity he goes scum, town, then scum again. His tunnel on Iceman felt kinda off to me, even if I agreed with the points.
His push later on on Trinity feels towny actually. I also think its weird that as soon as Nancy said she was no longer positive in the TR on me, he said the same thing too. He just kinda seems like he’s being a little opportunistic and sheepy, but not overall too bad recently. He is also one of my weaker reads but I think he is a little scummy.

FF:

posts feel natural and towny, and I’m mind-melding a lot with him. He is pretty much a tone-read, and its kinda hard to explain in short words, but I am almost confident in a Town!FF

Nancy:

What do I even say about this except town, town, town, town, town, town

[Eragon]

ill post some more stuff soon.

[Eragon]

Um, where your head is at means like, how you're doing as far as solving the game, how you feel about the gamestate, how you feel about your reads, what reads you feel good about and don't feel good about, stuff like that.

I feel very good about my Nancy, FF, and Stan1ey reads
I am fairly confident in my Iceman and Flicker reads
I am barely confident in my Oka and Quick reads

I dont have a good read on Trinity yet

[nancy]

Looking back on his ISO, I guess it wasn't so much that he was saying stuff without really saying anything, but more that he just has these kind of simple statements that people ask him about and that makes up a lot of his content. As far as saying stuff without really saying anything being Scummy, it's a way to pad your post count to make it look like you are contributing to the game more than you actually are. It's a tell common on my homesite, PerC.

Please quote examples.

[nancy]

Vote: Quick

I don't believe that your read on Iceman is real. You're saying that you disagree with him or he is bad therefore he is mafia, which is nonsense. Your entire case on him feels like shade and I don't like it one bit. Please catch up and provide thoughts on the game.

[nancy]

And I think its odd that they have a town pile of 6 people and the other 2 are null pile?
So no SR’s?

Okay, but do you believe the reasoning she uses? It's still early in the game, so why do you think it's unreasonable that her reads might be weak? Why do you think it's scummy that she doesn't have any scumreads?

[nancy]

Stan1ey: I would love to see more activity from him because I think his posts are pretty towny, but he’s only had 9 posts in the game, so I cant give him much more than a light town read.

Could you quote which of his posts feel towniest to you and maybe say a few words about why?

[OkaPoka]

@nancy you dropping your scumread on flicker or is quick simply more scummy?

[Eragon]

its not just the fact that she doesnt have scumreads, its that here TR's are for really weak reasons, like attitude, activity, mindmelding, and pointing out Info

[Eragon]

Stan1ey: I would love to see more activity from him because I think his posts are pretty towny, but he’s only had 9 posts in the game, so I cant give him much more than a light town read.

Could you quote which of his posts feel towniest to you and maybe say a few words about why?

sure

[nancy]

Also, thank.

[nancy]

@nancy you dropping your scumread on flicker or is quick simply more scummy?

She's still around null, maybe a teensy bit higher after her last post? I kinda liked her "there's room on the wagon" thing but that's extremely lolread. Am scumreading Quick more than I was scumreading her before though.

its not just the fact that she doesnt have scumreads, its that here TR's are for really weak reasons, like attitude, activity, mindmelding, and pointing out Info

Okay but do you have an idea of what more you expect at this point in the game? And even if you think her reasoning is bad maybe, can you believe that she might think that those things are important or relevant to her?

Stan1ey: I would love to see more activity from him because I think his posts are pretty towny, but he’s only had 9 posts in the game, so I cant give him much more than a light town read.

Could you quote which of his posts feel towniest to you and maybe say a few words about why?

sure

Yay!

[Eragon]

To start off I'd appreciate it if everyone answered a few questions:

1) What sort of activity can we expect from you this game?
2) Have you played forum mafia before, and if so, where, and how has that informed your play?
3) Do you prefer hunting mafia or manipulating town, and why?

1) Fairly active but my posting will probably drop of next week
2) This my third game so far. I think the most important thing i've learnt is to always think about motivations behind posts.
3) Hunting mafia i guess? I don't know what you mean by manipulating town

i like his response to #2 here, its not really AI but it starts off good

I read Flickers post as just confusion about RVS which is justified, i dont really care for it either. I think Formerfish is reading too much into it or taking the wrong meaning of what she wrote rather than trying to play it up tho. i'd put this as NAI for both sides. Also, @Flicker - i've seen people make multiple RVS votes, it doesnt really matter. tbh if playing the RVS in an unorthodox way like voting multiple times kick starts the game then imo its better because i hate the RVS.

HOWEVER - TrinityNZ's vote change and reasoning that she wanted to move it off of a player who is being replaced actually makes me think she is town. Like i said, nothing wrong with throwing your vote around if it kick starts the game. The RVS' only purpose is to get the game moving. mafia players want us to have a nice slow game with low activity, she could have kept her vote on maggie where it would have no affect on getting the game moving and none of us would have questioned her. But she decided to change it and risk drawing attention on herself anyway. i dont think mafia players would do that

i like this because he holds up to what he said about motivation of posts and also i like his perspective on it.

Hey, @FF @stan @Trinity, does this feel like a scum-scum interaction to you? Feel free to punt on it.

The question from OkaPoka seems a bit odd to me, but I don’t see why it would be a scum interaction.

Oka's question doesnt seem odd to me. But with Flicker's question I don't see the point at all. I also don't understand why she would feel the need to mention that he didn't answer them as well as other people. (also i checked - Oka actually put in roughly the same amount of effort I did when answering them).

I guess the point of a scum-scum interaction is to make it seem like they are trying to sort eachother without going too hard as hard bussing is a scumtell. Maybe, but i don't think so. Oka had a reasonable answer and i see nothing wrong with his original question. so i don't think it's scum-scum

Here is what i think happened - Oka actually made a question to Flicker in #47 and then in #49 criticized her response. Flicker did not respond to this but instead wrote post #80. So instead of responding to the fair criticism by Oka, Flicker threw some criticism straight back at OKa. I think this is scummy, especially because there was nothing really substantial in what she was saying, its like it was pulled from thin air because she thought she needed to give something back as a way to turn people against Oka instead of herself

VOTE: Flicker

again looking at the motivation from a towny perspective IMO.
i also think he has been giving unbiased opinions.


He is not a strong read, and i would like to see some more info from him, but im fairly confident in him being towm

[nancy]

I'm kind of tired of waiting around for stan to get prodded and post so I think I'm just going to go over my FF read and other things in a bit. My stomach needs food.

[nancy]

To start off I'd appreciate it if everyone answered a few questions:

1) What sort of activity can we expect from you this game?
2) Have you played forum mafia before, and if so, where, and how has that informed your play?
3) Do you prefer hunting mafia or manipulating town, and why?

1) Fairly active but my posting will probably drop of next week
2) This my third game so far. I think the most important thing i've learnt is to always think about motivations behind posts.
3) Hunting mafia i guess? I don't know what you mean by manipulating town

i like his response to #2 here, its not really AI but it starts off good

I read Flickers post as just confusion about RVS which is justified, i dont really care for it either. I think Formerfish is reading too much into it or taking the wrong meaning of what she wrote rather than trying to play it up tho. i'd put this as NAI for both sides. Also, @Flicker - i've seen people make multiple RVS votes, it doesnt really matter. tbh if playing the RVS in an unorthodox way like voting multiple times kick starts the game then imo its better because i hate the RVS.

HOWEVER - TrinityNZ's vote change and reasoning that she wanted to move it off of a player who is being replaced actually makes me think she is town. Like i said, nothing wrong with throwing your vote around if it kick starts the game. The RVS' only purpose is to get the game moving. mafia players want us to have a nice slow game with low activity, she could have kept her vote on maggie where it would have no affect on getting the game moving and none of us would have questioned her. But she decided to change it and risk drawing attention on herself anyway. i dont think mafia players would do that

i like this because he holds up to what he said about motivation of posts and also i like his perspective on it.

Hey, @FF @stan @Trinity, does this feel like a scum-scum interaction to you? Feel free to punt on it.

The question from OkaPoka seems a bit odd to me, but I don’t see why it would be a scum interaction.

Oka's question doesnt seem odd to me. But with Flicker's question I don't see the point at all. I also don't understand why she would feel the need to mention that he didn't answer them as well as other people. (also i checked - Oka actually put in roughly the same amount of effort I did when answering them).

I guess the point of a scum-scum interaction is to make it seem like they are trying to sort eachother without going too hard as hard bussing is a scumtell. Maybe, but i don't think so. Oka had a reasonable answer and i see nothing wrong with his original question. so i don't think it's scum-scum

Here is what i think happened - Oka actually made a question to Flicker in #47 and then in #49 criticized her response. Flicker did not respond to this but instead wrote post #80. So instead of responding to the fair criticism by Oka, Flicker threw some criticism straight back at OKa. I think this is scummy, especially because there was nothing really substantial in what she was saying, its like it was pulled from thin air because she thought she needed to give something back as a way to turn people against Oka instead of herself

VOTE: Flicker

again looking at the motivation from a towny perspective IMO.
i also think he has been giving unbiased opinions.


He is not a strong read, and i would like to see some more info from him, but im fairly confident in him being towm

ok_hand

[Eragon]

@nancy

I certainly think Flicker should have some stronger reads at the time they posted that

they posted their reads list on Page 17