Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[Formerfish]

@formerfish your vote is still on me it appears, so talk to me, why am I scum still?

for visibility

Didnt we do this dance last game we were in as well. I dont really interact with scum reads like that. I kinda dont trust actions made by people directly after I make it known that I think they are scum. Especially when its players that I have played with a few times before. There is just to much ability for people to switch metas or play to someones expectations after that point. Right now my vote is on you because I think you have a higher chance of being scum at this very point in the game. All that is going to change that is someone else popping the top of their scum tree just a head above the rest to get seen.

Quick is doing a good job of getting there for me right now. inb4 omgus read.

ninja- Oka, seriously bro? You can clearly see that I am catching up to the current posts and just responded to a post like 7 before this one... have some fucking patience that shit will get done in the time it should.

Well, that was a quick catch up.

I dont even know what this is? You on tilt bro?

[nancy]

I understand you're frustrated Quick, you just really need to find a way to not let that get the better of you in games. You're a fun player to be around when you're not tilted.

[nancy]

Anyway yeah Quick is probably town. This wasn't the ideal way for me to get the read by any means but I don't think he loses control like that if he's mafia here. Will make time to properly read and post stuff in a little.

[Formerfish]

Here is your OMGUS, bud.

VOTE: FF

tbh I feel like you are just trying to upset me more and get me to make a mistake. Plus that excuse about trying to catch up when you were pretty much already there was pretty bad.

Definitely on tilt. Wow. Even if I am doing what you think I am, is it not all in the game? I dont know your alignment right now, I only know my own. I didnt like something you did and I am going to treat you like a sore tooth, poking and jabbing at you to see what happens. This is the game you signed up for. This is the game of mafia. Your play here is shitty, and im not really worried about you.

And I wasn't saying that I wasnt answering him because I was catching up. I was literally catching up to where his post was in order of the posts i was reading and responding to. The post before the one i addressed Okas 524 was your 517. You are delusional bro.

[Formerfish]

yeah we did the dance because you scumread me and i didnt trust you, we both ended up town and not being lynched so it worked out in the end

And if that is what is destined to happen then youll be spared here as well. Its not like people are falling over themselves trying to follow me on my read, so your constant worry over my state of mind towards you might be able to take a rest for now.

its not about you reading me, its about me reading you

simply put, im growing suspicious of you and i want to interact w/ you to help further the development of my read on you

You want to interact with me to help suss out your reads and the requires me to ask you questions. Nah, pass. If you want to ask me a question ill answer, but im not going to reluctantly play 20 questions with you where im asking all the questions.

[Formerfish]

Anyway yeah Quick is probably town. This wasn't the ideal way for me to get the read by any means but I don't think he loses control like that if he's mafia here. Will make time to properly read and post stuff in a little.

Are you making that assessment based off anything more than a weak blow up and vote towards me? If he actually did catch up then he would have seen trinity express doubts about me and that she made her vote real on me. He would have seen Oka now expressing some doubt about me and could have tried to use those cracks to wiggle himself into a mislynch with me. He is like a whirlwind dashing from player to player calling the littlest things scummy, funny that this is all over us calling something he did scummy. Weird how different people make pushes for the reasons they do. Huh. How bout dat.

[nancy]

but do you policy lynch ics?

Trying to pull up a bunch of other stuff but I'll answer this now since you've asked twice.

On D1 or D2 no. After that I think you should yes. Here is why.

As a town player and IC is just a more experienced player to help find scum. To me they only have a slight advantage although most of that is lost because new players can be a pain in the ass.

As a scum player they are like a super heros. They can easily sway new players into confusion and mislynches. There is a much bigger advantage to a scum!IC.

I also feel like scum is going to night kill the active/most experienced players first. So it brings in the whole..... why is the IC still alive after a few nights?


I just think that a town!IC makes LYLO super difficult.


Of course if we have a strong read on someone other then the IC we would lynch them instead.

Tldr..... If we have no super strong roads then IC should be lynched before LYLO.

nancy, if you haven't yet, I'd like your thoughts on this.

I'm sort of suckering myself into ever so slightly townreading it, I think.

Like, on one level, you've got a wolf coming in and making a post that seems to be all about seeding distrust in the IC, even if he's not actually planning to ever cash in on the PL stuff since he knows with the thread presence that I have that he wants me dead as soon as possible.

On another level, it's just a really bad post, it's going to do precisely nothing to benefit him or his team 9 times out of 10, and as a wolf he has to know that. And I don't think wolves tend to make posts they know are going to look bad. Kinda lean towards reading it on this level because like, sure floating the idea of policy lynching people is bad, but the way he backs it up with this level of thought and explanation? Feels kinda like it's a genuine thought that he had rather than something he's pushing as a wolf agenda.

[nancy]

huh?

Your unvote is weird.

Why was it weird? He just pointed out that trinity voting brought me to l-2, and his vote was on me as well. Since his vote on me was in rvs and we are clearly out of it, it would make sense to move or at least remove a rvs vote which is currently the leading wagon based solely off of rvs votes.

Naked unvotes are wolfy.

It's slightly a meme.

Are you always this... logical?

Why no mention of FF using 2 games as Meta here?

Uh? I don't think this is a metaread from FF?

[nancy]

Vote: Quick

I don't believe that your read on Iceman is real. You're saying that you disagree with him or he is bad therefore he is mafia, which is nonsense. Your entire case on him feels like shade and I don't like it one bit. Please catch up and provide thoughts on the game.

Are you getting a scum caught for reasons they dont believe they should have been caught kinda vibe coming off of Quick right now?

Not really, but feel free to go over your take on that if that's how you're reading it.

[nancy]

OK, I'm caught up, AMA

/S

Seriously though I really hate being blackmailed to catch up in a game. Shit is just not right.

(1)

In other news, not sold on FF being Town. He got early TRs from people

(2)

and that seems to have stuck for not very good reasons I don't think. FF is a good player

(3)

, not ready to clear them just based on... Whatever people were TRing him for, because from what I saw, didn't see a whole lot of Town tells and def felt like I was strongly disagreeing with some of the stuff he's said so far.

(4)

1. Womp Womp. You didnt have to listen to us, you made a choice to. You could have stuck to your guns and probably would have backfired on you. Why did you decide to actually participate with the class?
2. Examples?
3. Ooooo... did you meta dive me? I love when I get doven into. What are you basing this statement off of?
4. More examples? Was it so hard to click that little Q button to focus on posts of mine you didnt like?

Yeah this wasn't very appropriate FF.

[nancy]

Anyway yeah Quick is probably town. This wasn't the ideal way for me to get the read by any means but I don't think he loses control like that if he's mafia here. Will make time to properly read and post stuff in a little.

Are you making that assessment based off anything more than a weak blow up and vote towards me? If he actually did catch up then he would have seen trinity express doubts about me and that she made her vote real on me. He would have seen Oka now expressing some doubt about me and could have tried to use those cracks to wiggle himself into a mislynch with me. He is like a whirlwind dashing from player to player calling the littlest things scummy, funny that this is all over us calling something he did scummy. Weird how different people make pushes for the reasons they do. Huh. How bout dat.

Quick's a bit of a whirlwind. I had only super skimmed when I said that and it seemed like a bigger blowup than it maybe was, but I still think he's more likely town from it. I don't really want to go over it too much because it feels really gross reading into toxicity but I think the way he approached my take on his Iceman read and stuff about being blackmailed into catching up, the way he started going out of his way to insult me, was incredulous that I didn't see eye to eye with him on Iceman, then checked himself out of thread when I came in and told him to cut it out, probably doesn't quite happen like that if he's mafia? I think if he was mafia he might have tried to discredit me in other ways than he did. His frustration felt genuine and I think it probably wouldn't have been genuine if he was mafia.

It's not a take-it-to-the-bank read I guess, and I'm sort of pulling myself back a little because I'd really rather feel sold on him him for positive stuff that he's done in the game, but I think his response to me about the Iceman thing felt genuine and that read feels more like a real read from him than it did before. So I'm less concerned about that than I was and I have a few things from him that I think are probably town things. I think his response to your interactions with him felt pretty genuine.

[Formerfish]

OK, I'm caught up, AMA

/S

Seriously though I really hate being blackmailed to catch up in a game. Shit is just not right.

(1)

In other news, not sold on FF being Town. He got early TRs from people

(2)

and that seems to have stuck for not very good reasons I don't think. FF is a good player

(3)

, not ready to clear them just based on... Whatever people were TRing him for, because from what I saw, didn't see a whole lot of Town tells and def felt like I was strongly disagreeing with some of the stuff he's said so far.

(4)

1. Womp Womp. You didnt have to listen to us, you made a choice to. You could have stuck to your guns and probably would have backfired on you. Why did you decide to actually participate with the class?
2. Examples?
3. Ooooo... did you meta dive me? I love when I get doven into. What are you basing this statement off of?
4. More examples? Was it so hard to click that little Q button to focus on posts of mine you didnt like?

Yeah this wasn't very appropriate FF.

Id like to know how exactly. He mentioned multiple times he wsnt going to catch up, and he caught some flack for that. Then the next thing we know he is doing isos and then is fully caught up. Like I said he could have not done that and still played the game, but instead he made a choice to listen to the group. I think that exploring how that happened is game relevant. And I dont like how he just skipped over the rest of the post which would help me understand where he was coming from if he could show some of the posts that helped him form his read on me.

[nancy]

So @FF I think my issues with you come down to two basic things.

One is that I feel like your process has been pretty uneven. Early in the game you were spooling out a bunch of logic in how you were reading things, covering all the angles, and then you kind of just stopped doing that at a certain point? The first time you talked about your reads as a whole you barely had two sentences to say about them all, they didn't feel thought-through at all and that felt pretty wrong to me.

And when I look at the way you've been pushing Oka and now Quick, your logic feels a little sloppy and it doesn't super feel like you're actually trying to get a read on their alignment? Feels like you're just shoving on them and trying to sell your read with fire rather than actually believing that they're mafia and you have a correct read. I also haven't really seen any reassessment or doubt from at all on your Oka read and that's sorta concerning. I agree with Quick's feeling that it seemed like you were trying to antagonize him there while he was tilted and I think that's kinda scummy of you.

And like, your entire scumread on Oka is based on meta and I think that's scummy of you as well. I haven't seen you engage with Oka's content outside of the narrow scope of a meta take you on had on his early game.

The other is that I don't really know what you're doing to solve the game here. (This is kind of tied into the first thing about your process.) I don't think you've really gone over what your townreads are and why they are things and that's pretty concerning to me considering how active you've been. You have a PoE pool but I haven't seen any of the work that you've done in getting there or any of the work you've done to refine it or challenge it. Kinda just, yeah, would like to see more from you than the sort of agenda-y pushes that it feels to me like you've been doing for most of the game so far.

[nancy]

Id like to know how exactly. He mentioned multiple times he wsnt going to catch up, and he caught some flack for that. Then the next thing we know he is doing isos and then is fully caught up. Like I said he could have not done that and still played the game, but instead he made a choice to listen to the group. I think that exploring how that happened is game relevant. And I dont like how he just skipped over the rest of the post which would help me understand where he was coming from if he could show some of the posts that helped him form his read on me.

That's fair. Am referring to the "Was it so hard to click that little Q button to focus on posts of mine you didnt like?" bit.

[TrinityNZ]

Nancy, what does ‘tilted’ mean?

[TrinityNZ]

Id like to know how exactly. He mentioned multiple times he wsnt going to catch up, and he caught some flack for that. Then the next thing we know he is doing isos and then is fully caught up. Like I said he could have not done that and still played the game, but instead he made a choice to listen to the group. I think that exploring how that happened is game relevant. And I dont like how he just skipped over the rest of the post which would help me understand where he was coming from if he could show some of the posts that helped him form his read on me.

That's fair. Am referring to the "Was it so hard to click that little Q button to focus on posts of mine you didnt like?" bit.

So @FF I think my issues with you come down to two basic things.

One is that I feel like your process has been pretty uneven. Early in the game you were spooling out a bunch of logic in how you were reading things, covering all the angles, and then you kind of just stopped doing that at a certain point? The first time you talked about your reads as a whole you barely had two sentences to say about them all, they didn't feel thought-through at all and that felt pretty wrong to me.

And when I look at the way you've been pushing Oka and now Quick, your logic feels a little sloppy and it doesn't super feel like you're actually trying to get a read on their alignment? Feels like you're just shoving on them and trying to sell your read with fire rather than actually believing that they're mafia and you have a correct read. I also haven't really seen any reassessment or doubt from at all on your Oka read and that's sorta concerning. I agree with Quick's feeling that it seemed like you were trying to antagonize him there while he was tilted and I think that's kinda scummy of you.

And like, your entire scumread on Oka is based on meta and I think that's scummy of you as well. I haven't seen you engage with Oka's content outside of the narrow scope of a meta take you on had on his early game.

The other is that I don't really know what you're doing to solve the game here. (This is kind of tied into the first thing about your process.) I don't think you've really gone over what your townreads are and why they are things and that's pretty concerning to me considering how active you've been. You have a PoE pool but I haven't seen any of the work that you've done in getting there or any of the work you've done to refine it or challenge it. Kinda just, yeah, would like to see more from you than the sort of agenda-y pushes that it feels to me like you've been doing for most of the game so far.

Is there any chance that FF and Quick are scum partners and planned a bit of a set-to? What do others think?

[nancy]

Nancy, what does ‘tilted’ mean?

Super upset and usually out of control.

[nancy]

Is there any chance that FF and Quick are scum partners and planned a bit of a set-to? What do others think?

Not a snowball's chance lmao. Would bet the game that the team isn't ever FF/Quick.

[TrinityNZ]

Nancy, what does ‘tilted’ mean?

Super upset and usually out of control.

Thanks

[TrinityNZ]

Is there any chance that FF and Quick are scum partners and planned a bit of a set-to? What do others think?

Not a snowball's chance lmao. Would bet the game that the team isn't ever FF/Quick.

It would be a clever thing to do though, right?

[nancy]

Trinity you're um, a really conflicted slot for me. I'm torn because I feel like the way you've been newbtelling has been towny but like, you make posts like 520 where I feel like you're completely unworried about certain people being mafia or your read being wrong, and your scumread on FF seems to just be that he's not playing as aggressively as usual which is like, okay? Sure, I guess, but you haven't really done anything to try to understand his mindset or read into his motivations anywhere and I'm just struggling to get a sense that you're trying to figure people out here.

I still just have no idea how to parse your response to Oka's push on you. Like, I've read your past games, I feel like you've shown in those games that you're aware that the type of logic you use in 391, 393 and 395 isn't reasonable or realistic at all, so I'm left just kind of going ??????? and can't really figure you out at all here.

[nancy]

Is there any chance that FF and Quick are scum partners and planned a bit of a set-to? What do others think?

Not a snowball's chance lmao. Would bet the game that the team isn't ever FF/Quick.

It would be a clever thing to do though, right?

Hum, I don't think so, no, not really. You'd just be bringing negative attention to both yourself and your mafia partner which isn't a good thing no matter how unaligned you might think you will look from it. Why?

[nancy]

Trinity you're um, a really conflicted slot for me. I'm torn because I feel like the way you've been newbtelling has been towny but like, you make posts like 520 where I feel like you're completely unworried about certain people being mafia or your read being wrong, and your scumread on FF seems to just be that he's not playing as aggressively as usual which is like, okay? Sure, I guess, but you haven't really done anything to try to understand his mindset or read into his motivations anywhere and I'm just struggling to get a sense that you're trying to figure people out here.

I still just have no idea how to parse your response to Oka's push on you. Like, I've read your past games, I feel like you've shown in those games that you're aware that the type of logic you use in 391, 393 and 395 isn't reasonable or realistic at all, so I'm left just kind of going ??????? and can't really figure you out at all here.

Also, you just kind of ducked out when I was questioning you about the Oka thing, which is really sketchy, and you haven't responded to my attempt to pick up on that again, which again, why, if you're town, are you avoiding that conversation?

[TrinityNZ]

Trinity you're um, a really conflicted slot for me. I'm torn because I feel like the way you've been newbtelling has been towny but like, you make posts like 520 where I feel like you're completely unworried about certain people being mafia or your read being wrong, and your scumread on FF seems to just be that he's not playing as aggressively as usual which is like, okay? Sure, I guess, but you haven't really done anything to try to understand his mindset or read into his motivations anywhere and I'm just struggling to get a sense that you're trying to figure people out here.

I still just have no idea how to parse your response to Oka's push on you. Like, I've read your past games, I feel like you've shown in those games that you're aware that the type of logic you use in 391, 393 and 395 isn't reasonable or realistic at all, so I'm left just kind of going ??????? and can't really figure you out at all here.

I guess I’m just trying to find my way as a player. I have read every single word in this form and have done my best to contribute, but I guess I’m not as articulate as you or some of the others. You put my concerns about FF in a post a few minutes ago way better than I tried to say it.

Although I don’t agree that I’m not looking for motivations. For example, I read that Oka’s motivation in pushing on me was to take the heat off him, and that’s what I was saying, and also trying to get a reaction back. Why is that unreasonable and unrealistic? Am I breaking some protocols I’m not aware of LOL?

[TrinityNZ]

Trinity you're um, a really conflicted slot for me. I'm torn because I feel like the way you've been newbtelling has been towny but like, you make posts like 520 where I feel like you're completely unworried about certain people being mafia or your read being wrong, and your scumread on FF seems to just be that he's not playing as aggressively as usual which is like, okay? Sure, I guess, but you haven't really done anything to try to understand his mindset or read into his motivations anywhere and I'm just struggling to get a sense that you're trying to figure people out here.

I still just have no idea how to parse your response to Oka's push on you. Like, I've read your past games, I feel like you've shown in those games that you're aware that the type of logic you use in 391, 393 and 395 isn't reasonable or realistic at all, so I'm left just kind of going ??????? and can't really figure you out at all here.

Also, you just kind of ducked out when I was questioning you about the Oka thing, which is really sketchy, and you haven't responded to my attempt to pick up on that again, which again, why, if you're town, are you avoiding that conversation?

Oh, I’m not avoiding anything, I think i must have missed it. I’ll see if I can find it what you asked.