NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Skygazer]

Informed is a normal modifier now for the record

[Taly]

I feel better about

Andrius

being town right now

[the worst]

that was kinda my feeling. I'll read up on normals and see if scum are allowed any setup info in the current ruleset (Pine did expressly say iirc that he'd be pushing the boundaries as much as he can get away with (and we love him for it))

[the worst]

I feel better about

Andrius

being town right now

same ^_^

[Andrius]

Informed is a normal modifier now for the record

I thought 'Informed' as far as normals was more 'You know 'X' is town.'

Like a one-way mason. Not like 'you know complicated setup information.' That's an awful large shadow to cast in a NORMAL GAME.

pedit: wat did I do

[Andrius]

Sorry I'm sitting here giddy right now because a secret project I was part of just was EXHUMED FROM THE GRAVE so you all might get to play an awesome mafia game if we finish it this time. <3

[Raskolnikov]

I could be wrong about the bussing, but I don't really know what else scum would do given the gamestate

I kind of feel like I'm one of the only people making cases here.

It's essentially true and another reason to let things simmer a bit
I want to hear for example what comes out of MoI eventually

I'm also not super confident myself either (when I'm supersure it's fairly obvious), though I think elbirn more likely flips scum than not I have better judgement if I really get a better "sample size" and opportunity to really engage or QandA them
and that's generally a function a time

[the worst]

This modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net provided the information given is objective and accurate. Information should be non-random with regards to what player-slot is being referred to. For example, if someone is to be told that a player is town, it should be noted in the setup specification that the player they are told is town is a randomly chosen vanilla townie, or a specific power role, and not just a randomly chosen town player.

[Skygazer]

Informed

: You know (some information about the setup). This information may be related to the setup, or to other players. It must be objective and accurate. For instance, an informed townie (or informed mafia) could be given any of the following:

• You know that this setup has 10 town members and 3 mafia members.
  
• You know that there is a rolecop in this game.
  
• You know that there is a mafia rolecop in this game.
  
• You know that (player) is a tracker.
  
• You know that (player) is a town doctor.
  
• You know that (player) is town. NOTE: if something like this is used, it must be non-random what player-slot is referred to. For example, if an informed townie is told that someone is town, it should be part of the setup specification that the player they are told is town is a randomly chosen vanilla townie, rather than a completely randomly chosen town player. Or it should be part of the setup specification that they are told that a specific power role is town.

[the worst]

Sorry I'm sitting here giddy right now because a secret project I was part of just was EXHUMED FROM THE GRAVE so you all might get to play an awesome mafia game if we finish it this time. <3

PRE IN PLS

[Skygazer]

This modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net provided the information given is objective and accurate. Information should be non-random with regards to what player-slot is being referred to. For example, if someone is to be told that a player is town, it should be noted in the setup specification that the player they are told is town is a randomly chosen vanilla townie, or a specific power role, and not just a randomly chosen town player.

I literally edited this in to the wiki an hour ago

[the worst]

oh Skygazer destroyed my quote. Welp.

[the worst]

This modifier is considered Normal on mafiascum.net provided the information given is objective and accurate. Information should be non-random with regards to what player-slot is being referred to. For example, if someone is to be told that a player is town, it should be noted in the setup specification that the player they are told is town is a randomly chosen vanilla townie, or a specific power role, and not just a randomly chosen town player.

I literally edited this in to the wiki an hour ago

LOL nicely done

[Andrius]

Informed

: You know (some information about the setup). This information may be related to the setup, or to other players. It must be objective and accurate. For instance, an informed townie (or informed mafia) could be given any of the following:

• You know that this setup has 10 town members and 3 mafia members.
  
• You know that there is a rolecop in this game.
  
• You know that there is a mafia rolecop in this game.
  
• You know that (player) is a tracker.
  
• You know that (player) is a town doctor.
  
• You know that (player) is town. NOTE: if something like this is used, it must be non-random what player-slot is referred to. For example, if an informed townie is told that someone is town, it should be part of the setup specification that the player they are told is town is a randomly chosen vanilla townie, rather than a completely randomly chosen town player. Or it should be part of the setup specification that they are told that a specific power role is town.

(╯°□°）╯︵ ┻━┻

[Raskolnikov]

Guys if a fruit vendor claim is scum they're probably just scum fruit vendor.

If someone's (informed) there's a fruit vendor and based on that decides to also claim fruit vendor when they're not that's a really bad claim, because if they die their scum buddies who claimed to receive fruit die for being liars, and also they can't "give fruit" to anyone else so it's just a terrible claim to begin with. If a fruit vendor claim is scum they're just a scum fruit vendor.

[the worst]

I'm saying a mafia informed fruit vendor.

[Raskolnikov]

If scum have disloyal fruit vendor that itself more or less probably makes them wonder if town have loyal fruit vendor

Or actually maybe it doesn't have an effect because scum may be inclined to out and use that claim anyways regardless of whether they think there's a town FV or not (IDK). Maybe knowing there's a town FV actually makes scum feel less safe claiming because maybe town FV CCs? This referring to MoI thought process if scum, ausuka otoh as having seen that before outing himself is essentially irrelevant WRT informed or not because he knew anyways obviously.

I guess if scum have stock fruit vendor then being informed of loyal fruit vendor is a thing that helps them. Seems weird though and counter-intuitive to have that though (idk I'd think something like informed would probably be used somewhat tastefully, but that kind of would just shuts down from town FV creativity of play and fake/modify claim shenanigans) (continuing with this line of spec feels like probably a waste of time)

[the worst]

eh just saying we need to check the fruit vendors as well. Hard to say where last night's kill went but I have this awful feeling it was probably aimed @ investigatives.

the MoI/Ausuka crossclaim thing didn't feel good. also I'm not townreading either of them. imo it actually adds an extra level of complexity to the setup which feels like its Pine's intention to an extent.

I'd actually say this role interaction concept is slightly more likely than 1.5 hard loyal fruit vendors + other investigatives lol :p

[Andrius]

*But* scum also threw in their hat to somewhat match the town fruit vendor so they doubled-down on a claim pretty early. Its not 100% but it weighs, in my mind, against it.

Then again with the amount of chaos that can be caused with blanket INFORMED statements its p. silly.

I'm townreading both of them so LEAVE MY LUCCA ALONE >:|

I mean you factor in two of them, HitAlt, and then you see what I got in my role pm and you really start to scratch your head and wonder.

[the worst]

alright I'll chill on it for now. just treat this discussion as a #staywoke

[Raskolnikov]

Spoiler:

Four more roles/modifiers are being added to the whitelist:

Roles:

Hider:

target a player. You will be protected from kills, but if that player dies, you will also die. This version is essentially the inverse of babysitter, and is what will be considered the normal version of hider. if you want the most common variant of hider, use a weak hider. The variant which causes the hider to be targeted by all abilities that target the person they hide behind, and other variants, are not normal.

Modifiers:

Any-nights-specific:

you may only use your non-factional abilities on the specified nights. For instance, the following are all now whitelisted:

• Night 1 and 3 cop
  
• Night 2+ vigilante
  
• Night 1-4 jailkeeper
  
• Night 1 and even-night neapolitan

etc. This subsumes some already-whitelisted modifiers, particularly even/odd-night and night-specific. It also subsumes novice. You're free to call these versions of the roles by their common names (e.g., novice vigilante instead of night 2+ vigilante), but the more general versions are also whitelisted.

Informed

: You know (some information about the setup). This information may be related to the setup, or to other players. It must be objective and accurate. For instance, an informed townie (or informed mafia) could be given any of the following:

• You know that this setup has 10 town members and 3 mafia members.
  
• You know that there is a rolecop in this game.
  
• You know that there is a mafia rolecop in this game.
  
• You know that (player) is a tracker.
  
• You know that (player) is a town doctor.
  
• You know that (player) is town. NOTE: if something like this is used, it must be non-random what player-slot is referred to. For example, if an informed townie is told that someone is town, it should be part of the setup specification that the player they are told is town is a randomly chosen vanilla townie, rather than a completely randomly chosen town player. Or it should be part of the setup specification that they are told that a specific power role is town.

Activated:

You may choose each night whether your passive ability will be in play or not. E.g., activated bulletproof, activated ascetic.

The opening post will be updated with a note for this.

Actually it's more likely than it first appears.
That post has anynightspecific and Activated, which if brassherald is truthing he has an activated role (again he may be scum BP as well), though even if he was lying he'd probably have some thing that brought activated to his attention in this game in the first place.
If Pine added anynight and added activated based on probably this post, it's fairly reasonable that he might have tried to work in informed somehow too while he was at it. But even then I think the spirit of that role is traditionally more of a town thing, mafia are pretty informed by default, and giving mafia informed free setup info onto one of the town PRs would IMO just be kinda lame tbh.

[Andrius]

Ok not trying to kill the mood but us talking about nrg stuff isn't really adding anything right now but spec so I'm gonna be quiet and stop posting 'til Magna comes back so there's not EVEN MORE pages for the poor readers to sift through unless someone wants to talk to me.

Chrono Out

[the worst]

tbh glorious and wonderful king raskolnikov I just don't have a lengthy setup spec career ahead of me in NY214. I kinda owe it to myself at least to spew everything that jumps to mind before EOD.

[Pine]

I'm only a cleric >: but I admire your radiant devotion

Back the fuck up off my Paladin, duck. I'm Andy's Cleric.

Accept no imitators.

[Raskolnikov]

my bad I'm just thinking out loud for the most part
I have a bad tendency to get lost in setup spec and waste time running down every little possibility