Labyrinth Mafia (Endgame)

[Wisdom]

you cant ungladiate, nancy

[Wisdom]

just like you cant unhammer
Its simple mechanics you should know by now

[Wisdom]

and ffs, whoever proves a role is not automatically town
yes, tw is gladiator
no, tw is not town gladiator

[the worst]

@Nancy, if there's actually 4 scum left here Shoshin is unfortunately just town. I want to lynch her on like a 50% policy basis as much as the next dude but she's never scum with a partner here.

if there's 2 scum left, they're wisdom and rando. probably about 30% on this possibility over solo!Shoshin

but we actually don't have to choose one possibility or the other, we can allieviate my paranoia and if I'm wrong still lynch the last scum.



pedit: oh yeah, gladiator can be a scum role. I'm just town by play here.

[Nancy Drew 39]

THIS.
IS.

TALY.

POSTING.

And yeah, I'm losing care for my hydra slips because I haven't heard from

Varsoon

about the game in 5 days, and it's pending on whether or not I'm doing this solo.

I mean, this is my last "slip" before the hypothetical reality I replace IN on my main

(which is Taly)

But I'm proving a point on how fruitless

tgkfap's

mentality and response to me is, and I'm about to drop my push because nobody seems to give a fuck and I'm wasting my time on 1 person.

rn ppls picks for scum are creature, shoshin, tpf, me. aa9 and RC.
thoughts on those slots?

Creature:

Playing very strongly to what I know to be scum of him. The fact that he hasn't even tried to gamesolve or interact with the suspicion on him consistently throughout this game makes me very strongly to believe this is scum.

Shoshin:

They're posting a lot of content that I don't believe would be fabricated, but I'm going to read them more in depth and engage before I make a solid assessment. Walls take me a bit to process X3

TpF:

I threw up in my mouth looking at their ISO.

Aa9:

Don't quite see the argument here? I probably skimmed over it, I haven't seen them post in a few pages, so I'll into that.

Reality:

Generally a bit difficult to follow. Some of their posts leave a bad taste in my mouth.

Also, what are your picks for people who are scum and town given the gamestate?

I also feel weird that

TBG

was the one of the longest-standing voters of

Renais

-slot D1 and he was NKed. So I think it's very likely that scum NKed him off the basis of an accurate read.

sucks that he probably replaced into a scum slot but I'm still glad he's here

Eghh....? What's the purpose of this post? Do you have any impression on

GIF

himself?

rn ppls picks for scum are creature, shoshin, tpf, me. aa9 and RC.
thoughts on those slots?

I think TPF, Creature and Angel are scum. Possibly Rennais as the fourth? There were some weird interactions between them. Rennais said that “Angel is town like me”, I believe. It will be interesting to see if GIF sheeps them on Nico vote. Rennais also had Creature crossed out on her readslist.

agree with this. i would throw shoshin and wheme in the pool as well.

Why Wheme? - my main issue with him has been his weird pushes on Joral but he voted Creature and I liked his read on Nico. Obviously based on wagonomics, I can’t write him off either. We obviously have to agree to disagree on Shoshin. I don’t see how scum!Shoshin hardtown reads Nico. I can’t see Sho being w/w with Angel, soley based on that.

I never found why

Wheme's

push on

Joral

was off, I got the idea that he was pushing very strongly for a read he wasn't sure of, which I don't think comes from scum often - and in my experience with

Wheme

.

R.E. the case.
i will consider the case to be a milkstool. it has three legs. my read on creature, psych eval, and peripheral reads.
to begin with the main point. i know how shit creature is as playing as scum. why do i go to these lengths to avoid his lynch? as RC said, people are more likely to try and get credit off of a creature lynch than bother defending him. this point just doesn't work as an indicator of me.
on another note, i reacted the exact same way to nico's play in spring fever where they were scum and shouted me down over me pushing them for inactivity. nico is prolly town but i was not going to let them get away with lurking to victory again.
thirdly, at EoD yesterday i had a scumread n tpf and ambivalence towards creature. i thought a tpf wagon had more support than it did. calling me out for not voting someone i wasnt scumreading is kinda ridiculous.
also my flip on renais was bc someone cased them and i agreed with the case.
first my continuation of my nico scumread despite contrary evidence was scummy
now me changing my mind when alternate info was presented in scummy.
shoshin is trying to find anything they can to paint me as scum regardless of its accuracy or cognitive dissonance. more later.

If you're defending

Creature

because nobody else is, then can you give me a valid case to why he's town here?

i'm not sure if Taly is aware we share a pt

wait, wtf? ...going to check if i got any notifications?

IM SO LOSTTT

AT LEAST IM CONF TOWN

:/ I sympathize with this a lot

that's kinda how I feel with Shoshin she's scummy and anti town as shit and it's got me to the point of like....... is this rly scum? WIFOM

How do yuo feel about their case on

Random-Creature

?

TGPKAP is the most likely town of the four

Anything not me-related?

Yeah. Look at the other wagons.

Also, I don't think anyone's brought up the

TBG

NK much, thoughts there?

Wheme

can tyou explain

Random/Shoshin

scum-scum?

VOTE: Creature
I'm still very strong with the

Creature

lynch. The fact that there was no lynch able to be made D1 and the high level of scumreads being casted on a good portion of the playerlist outside of

Creature

makes me feel this is the best option.

I also think this would provide a lot of reference and insight behind the

Nico/Renais

wagons, the

TBG

NK, and help absolve suspicion.

1593 and 1594 resolve a good bit of my uncertainty on

Reality

. I don't think scum would necessarily state the reasons for why an investigation on them would be unnecessary, and their post rings to me as genuine.

I think scum is extremely likely to be within

Tgkfap/Renais

, but I can't get past the fact that this isn't

Creature

-town, nothing this game so far has told me otherwise.

Furthermore, the more pages that go by, I'm becoming happy with

the worst

and

Nancy

being solid town.

Starting to not the trust the votes that were on

Nico

. I haven't seen

Angel

post much at all these past few pages so I'm concerned.

Shoshin

leans town based on vote history alone. She's actively pushed non-popular wagons and has solely been focused on improving their perception in the game using them.

And tomorrow or Tuesday ((when I have more time then)), I'll do an ISO-group of

Random/Angel/Shoshin

to sort them out

There's a lot of content without clarity, so time to make use of it

63 pages...Anyone got a TLDR?

We pissed away D1 without a lynch :/

TBG

was NKed, and he was on the

Renais

who I can see is likely scum.

TGKFAP

thought I was fucking

Varsoon

posting

despite me intentionally hydra-slipping

, even though I replaced in on my main because he never posted in thread.

Nobody's rebutted the

Creature

-scum meta case, and even without meta,

Creature

is very likely scum.

Angel

pushed

Nico

, who I'm feeling is more likely town in hindsight.

Wheme

thinks

Random V Shoshin

is scumVscum.

I'm actively battling apathy by posting because I didn't expect to go "full-weight" in this game hence my partner flaked on me D:

Reads? Questions?
How do you feel about the NK and the multitude of wagons D1?

I don't think

Random

solely caused a no lynch

But after skimming, I definitely want to hear why

Renais

was a much better wagon and push than

Creature

. There were multiple D1 posts from him where he debated the possibility of

Creatue

scum but never did anything to generate a conclusion.

So if

Creature's

scum,

Random

and

Angel

are looking a lot less towny in my eyes. If

Creature's

town, I still want to see why

Angel

went for

Nico

and why

Random

seems blatantly inconsistent.

1593 and 1594 resolve a good bit of my uncertainty on Reality. I don't think scum would necessarily state the reasons for why an investigation on them would be unnecessary, and their post rings to me as genuine.

I don't follow... If Reality's scum, wouldn't they want to avoid an investigation?

I think it's more likely scum would not oppose an investigation on themselves, if it meant they wouldn't be suspected or other people would become a better option.

Why would town want to be investigated if they can defend themselves and state why they're town? Hence their confidence because they're correct?

I just find town-motivation in that post of

Reality

more as,

"don't waste an investigation on me, and here's better alternatives"

- she wasn't avoiding the idea of investigating her, nor was she deflecting from the conversation by not adding a reason.

So I think that's more towny.

Taly, do you agree or disagree with me that Random played a major role in causing a no lynch by softly defending Creature throughout D1?

nice leading question

also that taly summary is dire its mostly correct but does not include any of the most important points

Instead of saying things "are dire" without any concrete reason, how about you INCLUDE the most important points yourself and actually expand on the conversation?

My POV of this game is very blurry and I'm actively resolving that.

@Random

A)

You didn't answer my question. You NEVER voted

Creature

, but you still weren't sure about him being scum or town and you didn't really engage much with the wagon who have consistently believed he's playing to his scum-meta. Why was

Renais

a better vote/wagon and/or more likely scum?

B)

Why would scum vote

Creature

? And why was

Creature

worthy of your defense? I still don't feel like I've gotten a clear answer over this.

C)

I just stated I thought

Reality

was coming more from a town perspective with her approach to that topic, and I still believe that. Do you see scum-motivation there? Why?

D)

Yeah... you could've said that to expand on my 'summary' instead of casting suspicion on it. Plus, what were YOUR thoughts on those events you just listed?

and you are ignoring teh fact that i didnt choose to wagon renais. because. i. wasnt. on. them. at. day. end.

oh right, you were bussing

tgkfap

guess that completely eliminates all relevance from these posts?

aight yo wassup g's im here now talk to me
creature could be scum but seems kinda lynchabity nowatimsayin

sounds gucci to me
VOTE: princess of renais

Acutally, agreed. I have doubts on creature, but they can be solved later on.

VOTE: renais

VOTE: Creature

one of these two votes is probably scum depending on the renais flip imo.

Please tell me A), how this is scum and B), how Wisdom and random are w/w together?

Like, you make the least conclusive read possible on

Creature

by shading him with

"this could be scum, but

renais

looks like a less mislychbaity lynch"

- even though I'd argue the exact opposite, because people have consistently stated

Renais

is scummy and now

GIF

, but nobody wants to tie the noose on

Creature

Seriously, I'm all asking is why

Renais

was more likely scum than

Creature

, and you keep tip-toeing around the fact that you made no actual conclusion on

Creature

D1.

bc creature's scum play was abysmal. and i wasn't defending him, i was saying that he *might* be town.

Again, you don't actually state a solid read there but you're actively not going for his lynch or engaging with the wagon on him...

And what do you mean

"

creature's

scumplay is abysmal"

? Um? His play here is abysmal by his standards?

And why do yuo keep saying he "might" be town? Are you waiting for him to make this holy grail post that absolves all suspicion on him? Because that hasn't happened and we're close to this game being a month old.

of course there is scum motivation there. in what way is trying to bully someone out of investigating you lacking scum motivation? Idc if you think there is town motivation in it, to claim there is no scum motivation is flat-out wrong.

Seeing motivation in someone's post IS SUBJECTIVE.

So go on, tell me why my perception is wrong and tell me why

Reality

is more likely to be scum for her recent posts.

And also, wtf? "Bullying"? Are you reading the thread? There is absolutely nothing that suggests this.

the issue with the summary is it puts focus on the wrong area. it makes it seem like wheme is a townleader. it makes it seem like nico's alignment is up for debate
bearing in mind i was directly involved with 3 of them and i directly suggested a theory as to why people went underground the last question is a bit farcical

I'm asking for your damn opinion and you're ignoring that.

Have you read my catchup post? I haven't been engaged with the game because I lost a lot of motivation.

So yeah, please enlighten me on the importance of what you listed, and try to indirectly undermine my posts less. -_- I never said anything else was unnecessary, I gave MY perception of the game and your comments sound like you're actively looking to diminish that.

but real talk

Chickadee

, what's your thoughts on

Renais, Tgkfap, Nico

they were people ive scumread D1 ((thinking

Nico

is more town based on interactions with who I think is scum, still scumreading

tgkfap

, and I'm iffy on

GIF/Renais

)) and im worried that im getting tunnel vision on these people

Well, I'll refrain from commenting on tpfkap, because Porkens is my predecessor, and I honestly have no clue wtf he was doing. He always has a weird play style that people scum read, and I've never quite been able to get inside his head.

Gonna be honest, here's what I've done so far since getting my role pm: I took a shower, ate some lunch, ISO'd my slot, ISO'd the mod to get highlights, checked in with my neighborhood, Saw that Creature was being scum read and ISO'd him.

So that's where I'm at. I can't really give any well formed or even ill formed thoughts on the Nico and Renais slots at the moment, but I'll hit you up later.

wait wtf

did yuo repalce

tgkfap

? Just saw that they haven't posted in 6 days.

And alright, I'm going to ISO dive

GIF

Tuesday as well

i'm not going to respond to someone completely lacking in reading comprehension skills

I'm a bit tired of being written off as dumb or "lacking in comprehension skills" in literally most of my games.

I actually think I'm doing better in this game than other games in terms of not "doing nothing but surface-level" shit

But w/e, if you want to ignore all the points I brought up, and what

Shoshin

brought up herself, by all means go ahead.

Scumread created.

just saying that im not going to post and then disappear for 2 days

about to go to class, so ill update my thoughts on thread later

im iffy with

Wheme

with his recent posting and im confident with

Shoshin

being town

tw

hmu fam

we are on the same page with

Creature

but what are your general thoughts on the gamestate?

[Wisdom]

I'm just town by play here.

by what play? By lynching sajj or by making sure we cant lynch shoshin?

[Nancy Drew 39]

@the worst read my Taly wall and please tell me A) how this is scum and B) how Wisdom/random are w/w together?

[Wisdom]

Tell me one fucking reason i dont bus random and win this with closed eyes if im scum with random
Youre assuming i bussed chick anyway so?

[the worst]

Tell me one fucking reason i dont bus random and win this with closed eyes if im scum with random
Youre assuming i bussed chick anyway so?

what would you gain by bussing random here

[the worst]

@the worst read my Taly wall and please tell me A) how this is scum and B) how Wisdom/random are w/w together?

Taly is very good at scum, in particular distancing. I would not call anything in that wall outside his scumrange with rando for a moment.

I'll link you the last game I played with scum!Taly if you want. Varsoon is a much weaker player when it comes to this which would explain the lurkout before he lost connection.

I don't have the time to go through and case it in detail but if you want it I have recommended reading.

[the worst]

Last time I played with Taly as scum he was teamed up with Eddie Cane. they fought and argued and pushed each other so hard they were called obvious TvT and basically it was a scum sweep.

note rando really never replies to Taly and yet he didn't push it. is that town indicative?

[Wisdom]

im done here
arguing with scum really drives me mad
nancy please vote tw.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@Nancy, if there's actually 4 scum left here Shoshin is unfortunately just town. I want to lynch her on like a 50% policy basis as much as the next dude but she's never scum with a partner here.

if there's 2 scum left, they're wisdom and rando. probably about 30% on this possibility over solo!Shoshin

but we actually don't have to choose one possibility or the other, we can allieviate my paranoia and if I'm wrong still lynch the last scum.



pedit: oh yeah, gladiator can be a scum role. I'm just town by play here.

Look at my Taly wall. How does he and random make sense as w/w? If anything, he makes way more sense as w/w with Shoshin but it makes no sense for scum!Wisdom to bus scum!Shoshin, does it?

Based on my Taly wall, I don’t see Wisdom and random being teammates. And Wisdom is also right about scum docs being more common than scum hoods. I’ve been in a game with the former in fact but never the latter. Scum docs are far from unusual.

If you’re scum in this game, am I - a broken jailkeep who unknowingly wolfsided on D5, really your N5 NA? Because I sure as hell wouldn’t be mine.

Shoshin’s reactions to both Angel lynch and CS NK don’t sound villagery to me. Both reactions are way overblown. She’s faking Angel upset - since she too has Angel blood on her hands yet did not save either Sajj or Wheme - whose hands were clean. Her reaction to CS NK makes no sense unless she’s scum. She’s pissed at CS brczuse her fake bg ploy faiked to pocket him. If she were town, she may ir may not have saved him but she woukd definitely feel bad about he not preventing his death. Same with Wheme but she has no regrets for either. However CS and I are evek for mislynching an arguable toxic, anti-town player and she continues to act holier-than-thou over both that and my Sajj hammer, which unlike her re: CS/Wheme, I actually do feel bad about.

[the worst]

it's basically impossible to correctly Shoshin based on tone alone. she's always ridiculously dramatic.

[Nancy Drew 39]

@the worst read my Taly wall and please tell me A) how this is scum and B) how Wisdom/random are w/w together?

Taly is very good at scum, in particular distancing. I would not call anything in that wall outside his scumrange with rando for a moment.

I'll link you the last game I played with scum!Taly if you want. Varsoon is a much weaker player when it comes to this which would explain the lurkout before he lost connection.

I don't have the time to go through and case it in detail but if you want it I have recommended reading.

Yes, please do. There was something else you promised to case on? Also, I am extremely interested to know more about Shoshin’s scum repertoire you referred to.

I’m frustrated that we will have to tolerate more of her scum WIFOM garbage for yet another day.

[Nancy Drew 39]

it's basically impossible to correctly Shoshin based on tone alone. she's always ridiculously dramatic.

You found her profiles. Link me to some of her town games.

[the worst]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=76098

pedit: she has townmeta onsite, she's like this but to a way lesser extent. her scumgame has actually been historically more agreeable and less personal from what I've seen but she does low brow it a little on this site soooo

either way meta wise I actually don't think she has the capacity to vomit as much sheer content as she has as scum. it's possible but I'd be surprised.

[the worst]

also don't intend to link off site profiles. privacy is something I feel p strongly about even if I've had some qualms with Shoshin's style this game.

[the worst]

the reason I think there's a lot more team equity in wisdom/rando than wisdom/shoshin was their entrance to ?LyLo?

wis and rando feel so in sync and coordinated. you and I aren't in sync. shoshin and I are like...... 30% in sync? in that I'm either right or I'm being pocketed hard?

either way I'd just feel so weird if wisdom hardbussed chick then came into today hardbussing Shoshin as well. Everyone is so willing to lynch her. she doesn't feel like groupscum in 5p.

Either I'm wrong and she's the last scum (town!Wisdom flip => powerlynch Shoshin) or my paranoia is warranted and there's 2 scum left. If there are two scum wisdom is confirmed scum fmpov.

[the worst]

unless you think I'm literally scum with Shoshin (all other partner possibilities for me are now disproven), Wisdom is the best lynch here. I'm willing to hammertest to prove Shoshin/tw is not the scumteam obviously

[the worst]

but also I'm getting kinda exhausted by this game. if we can finish it before page 200 I'll be relieved.

[Nancy Drew 39]

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=76098

pedit: she has townmeta onsite, she's like this but to a way lesser extent. her scumgame has actually been historically more agreeable and less personal from what I've seen but she does low brow it a little on this site soooo

either way meta wise I actually don't think she has the capacity to vomit as much sheer content as she has as scum. it's possible but I'd be surprised.

Whose ISOs are we looking at Taly or Shoshin’s? @Wisdom , do you have any scumgames you can link me too?

I feel you’ve put us into a no win situation here by saving the only player who is actually scum in the game, so how does my vote even matter?

The game could have ended already and now we have to put up with her crap for yet another day. Why?

[the worst]

Wisdom and rando have both treated me like I'm town strictly UNLESS they need my lynch to get through today. +team equity by the fact they're both powering for a Shoshin lynch--i don't think Wisdom came into today expecting to need to lynch me. nothing really locks the same feeling in for rando but I hope you get what I mean

[the worst]

do you get what I mean about the possibility of two scum remaining? @ND39

[Nancy Drew 39]

the reason I think there's a lot more team equity in wisdom/rando than wisdom/shoshin was their entrance to ?LyLo?

wis and rando feel so in sync and coordinated. you and I aren't in sync. shoshin and I are like...... 30% in sync? in that I'm either right or I'm being pocketed hard?

either way I'd just feel so weird if wisdom hardbussed chick then came into today hardbussing Shoshin as well. Everyone is so willing to lynch her. she doesn't feel like groupscum in 5p.

Either I'm wrong and she's the last scum (town!Wisdom flip => powerlynch Shoshin) or my paranoia is warranted and there's 2 scum left. If there are two scum wisdom is confirmed scum fmpov.

unless you think I'm literally scum with Shoshin (all other partner possibilities for me are now disproven), Wisdom is the best lynch here. I'm willing to hammertest to prove Shoshin/tw is not the scumteam obviously

I really feel for you and I truly believe you got pocketed hard. I too wanted to save her before Chick flip but Chick flipped red and Shoshin did everything possible to stop it.

However, I hate to point this out but your role according to MafiaWiki is NAI, so I’m basically left with choosing between two villas.

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Gladiator