In post 964, Eragon wrote:im not sure if it would be against the rules to talk about?
In post 965, Eragon wrote:its ongoing but im dead
I’m not one for a lot of detail, but I’ll try once I get through the 7 pages of posts that I have to read!In post 831, OkaPoka wrote:TRINITY! I need some quotes in which you think I've made some bad responses to some questions posed by others that you find so horrible. I also want you to go in detail why my case on you is weak.
With FF, it was just when I did an iso, and read though all of his posts together, that I realised that I hadn’t noticed his posts properly. I think I’d just noticed the posts he’d directed at me, and the ones directed at others didn’t sink in as much for some reason. So I don’t think I slowly changed my mind, it was a growing sense as I read the iso.In post 839, WhyMafia wrote:In post 804, TrinityNZ wrote:What sort of content would you like to see from me?In post 757, WhyMafia wrote:Trinity I'm more stuck on - I would like more content from her - for now I guess she's nullHmm. Can you elaborate on your switch from FF? What specifically caused you to slowly change your mind about FF? What are some other general observations you made about slots? Individually I like your posts. However, I in the grand scheme, you seem to be ... kinda aimless? I don't see you doing anything meaningful per say. I don't see your thirst to figure out if your SR on Oka is correct. I guess ... I don't see your motivations, if that makes sense? Because you're active on the thread, but I don't see you stirring up the pot.In post 804, TrinityNZ wrote:What sort of content would you like to see from me?In post 757, WhyMafia wrote:Trinity I'm more stuck on - I would like more content from her - for now I guess she's null
FF, this was just me trying to be funny. I guess it failed.In post 845, Formerfish wrote:I think its the comments like this that come off as desperate to me. Like someone trying to fit in based off 80's information. Like it seems legit, but something is off about it.In post 765, TrinityNZ wrote:Town is on to you.
I’m sorry FF, I can’t remember what I was thinking when I wrote that.In post 853, Formerfish wrote:That doesnt change my question. At the point in time you made this post you felt like I should be putting in effort on certain people. Who and why?In post 799, TrinityNZ wrote:This post of mine was superseded once I’d iso’d You and I am now thinking you’re town.In post 718, Formerfish wrote:What others should I be putting in work on and why do you expect me to be doing that?In post 666, TrinityNZ wrote:I’m trying to catch up on today’s posts, so will post something more later, but for now FF is still my biggest scum read. He’s really only been leaning on Oka, and not putting in the effort on others that I would have expected.In post 623, WhyMafia wrote:mahhh, I suppose I overlooked Trinity. I feel like Nancy's 570 kind of represents how I feel. I want Trinity to do more, and she seems to be nooby to me. She isn't really pinging my scum radar, but I get what you mean by her being passive and not being proactive. @Trinity, can you convince me on who your biggest scum read is and why we should Lynch them? @Oka can you do the same?
Wow. Give me a chance, I’m in a different time zone to you remember. I can’t reply immediately.In post 857, OkaPoka wrote:In post 831, OkaPoka wrote:TRINITY! I need some quotes in which you think I've made some bad responses to some questions posed by others that you find so horrible. I also want you to go in detail why my case on you is weak.in case this gets ignored, @TRINITY
I will do some clarification, in this post:You mark me as a scum lean because of first I have an alleged weak case against you and I have also responded poorly to questions other people have posed.In post 671, TrinityNZ wrote:OK, so I know this is going to make me look flaky, but looking for evidence has just made me confused! FF looks to me like apart from the interaction with Quick, he’s mainly spent time leaning on Oka and not really putting in the effort on everyone else. And I don’t think he’s tried hard to defend the votes on him. But I’ve had to admit that I do like that he’s after Oka as I think Oka could be scum, which would possibly, but not definitely, mean that FF isn’t.In post 668, OkaPoka wrote:Talk to me about ff, write up a case with some evidence
My current thinking is:
Nancy - strong town. We all know why.
Oka - scum lean, mainly because of the weak case he was trying to make on me, and poor answers to questions others have asked.
Iceman - slight town lean, as I’ve liked his theory posts, although his vote on Quick seemed a bit forced, and not for the best of reasons. I don’t think not reading posts is AI.
Quick - slight scum lean. I initially didn’t think scum would be so blasé about the attack from IceMan. But some of his posts are scummy sounding, like ‘you are trying to upset me more and get me to make a mistake’. As mafia in the last game I worried about making mistakes, but in this game I’m not worried so much as what sort of mistakes can I make? I mean, I can make silly mistakes where people might think I’m stupid, but I can’t think what type of think a ‘mistake’ I could make that would be really bad.
Flicker - slight scum lean, the unvote of Oka seems strange.
Eragon - town lean originally, as he came in with a hiss and a roar, but that has tapered off, so null at the moment.
Why Mafia - town lean. I’m linking his posts. He’s put in a lot of effort really quickly and looks like he’s making an effort to understand the game, and made some good cases.
FF - was my strongest scum lean, but I’m backing off that, as noted above.
UNVOTE: FormerFish
So what I want is for you to first, explain why you believe that my case is terrible and scummy.
I also want you, more importantly, to quote some of these poor responses I have made in response to other questions and I want you to explain why each of these poor answers are so garbage and thus scummy.
Yep, I’m reading every post. By the time I read everything, I don’t have time to answer all the questions. Yes, I could be wrong. I actually just had a thought about Oka that might make me re-evaluate, so I will post on that later, but first I’m trying to get through the 7 pages that have appeared since I was here last.In post 870, nancy wrote:Gotta admit though it's pretty discomforting how she just keeps missing stuff in thread. Like, this keeps happening. Are you just not reading every post or something Trinity?
@TrinityIn post 811, nancy wrote:Okay, so you think he's town because you think that Oka is mafia and that FF and Oka are never mafia partners?In post 808, TrinityNZ wrote:Nancy, I was referring to what I’d said about FF in this post.
What if you're wrong, and Oka is town?
Not quite sure how to answer all this. Perhaps try to imagine I’m town for a minute and that I’m spending hours and hours on this game because do actually want to solve it. And that I’ve spent the most time interacting with Nancy because she has been helpful and I’m new. If I was scum, I don’t know why I would spend time interacting with Nancy, I’d be avoiding her like the plague, as I’m not experienced enough to outsmart her.In post 873, OkaPoka wrote:I would actually have to completely disagree with this being a scum mindset, because this isn't how I would play scum. I just recently played a newbie-scum game if you want to meta dive me and verify this.In post 815, nancy wrote:God I read this post again and I'm like.In post 785, OkaPoka wrote:getting a townread on me is not important as long as there is a better lynch today
This is, to a T, 100%, exactly what scum mindset looks like.
All scum need each dayphase is to dodge the lynch, be a little more town than someone else, make someone else look scummier than they are.
I just don't know whether OkaPoka is actually scum for saying it.
Like, can he really be having that thought as town here? Can he honestly think that it's not important for me or anyone else to get a townread on him?
It's like, kind of inherent to our condition as town to want to be townread. We don't like people thinking we're mafia, getting our alignment wrong. It feels bad. But Oka just... doesn't care?
This is like. Too Wolfy To Be A Wolf type territory, which is all through his ISO, not just this post. And at a certain point I think like... well, maybe he is actually just a wolf?
Ugh.
Scum wants to dodge lynches yes that is true, but scum also aren't playing to merely just nearly avoid being the most scummy because that is simply a risk not worth taking. People in this game are rarely consistent and they are also rarely completely rational players, thus in order to dodge a lynch, the primary goal of scum would be not to appear a bit more townie, but the most townie because otherwise the swing of town might still end up with a lynch on a null!OkaPoka.
Yeah it is inherent as town to want to be townread, but it isn't nor should it be the primary concern of town to be the towniest of them all. That's scum wincon, scum doesn't need lynches to win, they just need to make sure town either mislynches, or fails to lynch and they can solve the game based on NK's. Meanwhile town has to make sure finding scum is their primary concern because ultimately without successful lynches, town loses every time. We are also playing a semi-openish setup that does not give a guarantee on investigative roles to help sole the game, nor do we have town killing roles to allow town to not need lynches to win.
In an extreme vacuum, a town that has their primary concern in making the appearance of being townie will lose every game. There needs to be at least some people who are making their whole effort hunting scum because we can't just rely on PRs to win this game for us. In a game in which town has their primary concern of being townie, they will lose because scum are also doing the same, and it makes the job of scumhunting much more difficult because to an extent, everyone is acting rather than being themselves. When everyone is composed and trying to act like town, they are acting rather than trying to win, and then the game will devolve into who can be the best actor.
Literally nobody wants to be scumread in this game, and it's not like I don't care about being scumread, it's just not worth as much time to act town when I could be selfishly developing reads on others and trying to figure things out.
The difference between scum!Oka and town!Oka is town!Oka is being genuine while scum!Oka wants to come across as genuine. I can see why you want to help me out by telling me why I should try and make an effort to appear more townie, but I think that can ultimately be somewhat detrimental advice as town shouldn't concern themselves with acting town. I find it more difficult as scum to develop genuine reads not only because I know everyone's alignment and I have ulterior motives, but because while I am in the act of appearing town, I have to tone down the aggressiveness in developing my reads and challenging other people's ideas.
I think it is a given that everyone reacts more hostile-y to people who scumread them and are pushing them, thus then the optimal play if your end goal is to be townie is to never push, never interact on a deeper level, and never challenge other people's reads. By caring so much about other people's reads on you, what ends up happening is you simply ask superficial questions and lend support to whoever you want to suck up to. You let other people game solve for you.
Okay and there is a point behind all of this, it's not just to respond to nancy's assertions.
I think this is exactly what Trinity is doing, she is being superficial and wants to give off a vibe of genuine townieness.
I don't think I need to quote examples, if you want them I will, but a lot of her posts feel like they won't go anywhere. She is overly nice with people, which could just be her personality, but what I fear is she is trying to play nice to get townread. She is rubbing shoulders with nancy(the obvtown player) a lot, and to an extent it's useless. Let's examine the game from her perspective.
Most people are marking nancy as town, she is too, obvious by 671 if you want an example, so why does she keep interacting with nancy so much? There is no need to develop reads on people you so solidly read town when you have others in which you have giant question marks over. Unless you want to inflate your post count, unless you don't want to give offense to others by hinting that you may be hostile to them, unless you don't actually care about developing genuine reads, you just want the obv town to like you and not lynch you.
Look at trinity's questions she is posing and attempting to make an attempt at interacting with others, I mean does she have a larger path with these questions? Does she have a greater point she wants to prove or expand on? I am getting the vibe that most of her questions directed towards people don't really have much direction to go, they serve no real purpose other than to make herself seem more townie, because that is her primary concern as scum.
Look all the posts Trinity has made, maybe one or two posts have some genuine direction in which they can go and she can develop upon. If we are being generous.
But most of these posts are either her trying to be friendly, or her trying to clarify herself and say look at me I am so townie XOXO.
I mean does trinity even have a desire to solve this game? I'm getting the feeling the answer to that is no.
We'll see though.
In post 885, IcemanCh wrote:Yes! I am way more confident and flippant in this game.In post 867, Formerfish wrote:Its going to be hard for me to read trinity this game. She only has 1 in and it was a scum game. I just dont remember her speaking like this last game and in the back of my mind im thinking she is going overboard acting townie because she thinks its going to hide her when it just makes her stick out.In post 865, nancy wrote:I agree with this, btw, but I kinda think it's just the way she talks.In post 845, Formerfish wrote:I think its the comments like this that come off as desperate to me. Like someone trying to fit in based off 80's information. Like it seems legit, but something is off about it.In post 765, TrinityNZ wrote:Town is on to you.
You have a point. She wasn't as confident or flippant about things. I don't know though cause it kind of makes me want to say trinity is town.
Then, you said this about me to start reading me in scum, even though I was doing exactly what you said in the post above. And this seems to be the only reason you have for reading me as scum. I just don’t think it’s a good enough reason. It’s like you’re clutching at straws. you even noted you didn’t have any questions for me. And since this post, you’ve been constantly on my case.In post 28, OkaPoka wrote:Typically speaking, you should at least check in once every 24 hours at the bare minimum to comment on things, answer questions, or ask questions, but as the deadline gets closer, it is good to increase your posting and be more active, especially if no real lynch candidates have been presented imo.
Below is an example of another post from you I didn’t like. I couldn’t see why you would ask this question.In post 283, OkaPoka wrote:yeah i think trinity is scum, she hasn't really meaningful engaged with anyone without really being prompted to.
feels like she is reading the thread, answers any questions directed at her and then disappears
town would be more proactive imo
VOTE: trinity
ff might hate me for voting her already but i don't really have questions for her
Having spent about the last two hours reading recent posts, and responding, I’m coming to the conclusion that you might not be mafia after all. I think your push on me is so strong, that if I am mislynched, you would look really suspicious because your push has been so strong, and I don’t think you are that stupid. I think if you were mafia you would have been easing back a bit on me and letting others do the work. So after all that, I’m reading you as town now.In post 31, OkaPoka wrote:@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3
Nancy can you elaborate on this? I keep re-reading Flicker and I guess I see some of the things you see, but not all of it. Why is her nuance and care regarding Oka towny? Can you describe how it makes sense the way she unvoted Oka to not really come from scum?In post 1010, nancy wrote:I think Flicker's response to my mini push was soooo genuine and real, the hurt she expressed there and how it wove into her play, and I think it helped me to understand what level to read her on here. I think the amount of effort that she put into her first post and how nuanced and careful she was with her Oka treatment was really town and I think the way she's approached people and tried to solve things has felt really genuine. I think the way she unvoted Oka makes a lot of sense and isn't really the angle that mafia take there pulling off a scumread. When I read her big wallpost I thought that she was either a newbie reading into things in a really quirky way like newbies sometimes do or just TMI-ing a bunch of people town and I think after hearing her speak to me that it's the first one and I think she's just super likely to be town here.
I don't know why, dude, and I don't know why you would do them as town either. That's why you're a weak scumread. Your Oka read looks bad because it doesn't look like anything. I dunno what you were even scumreading about him because you never talked about it. Like, if you're mafia then you came in with a fake read, poked at it a bit meaninglessly, then after it had said a few words you pivoted it off it and the whole thing might as well have never happened. I didn't see you do anything with what happened there. Your Oka read is a bunch of question marks, and I don't mean that it's bad that you're not sure about his alignment I mean you literally haven't taken a solid stance on anything he has done and yet he was one of your strongest scumreads. This has nothing to do with sugarcoating.In post 1015, WhyMafia wrote:I have a scum read, and I want him to talk to me, and until my scum read of him decreases, or someone makes a compelling case on him, I'm gonna stick to him. Why is my progression on Oka bad? Why would scum!WM behave the way he did? Why would I make a bit of pressure, and instantly retract it? I don't know what to think of that slot, and I've made that abundantly clear. I'm not gonna sugar coat things to look good, I'm gonna vote and interact with people as I see things I like and don't like
![:]](./images/smilies/icon_smiling.png "Cheerful Smile"){kind=icon}
In post 841, Quick wrote:@Flicker,
If you had to give the difference(s) between your Town game and Scum game, what would they be?
Why do you ask?In post 30, Flicker wrote:I've only rolled scum once (in Micro 805.1), but I wouldn't say I really got the opportunity toplayas scum, so I don't know [what the difference is].
I think it's towny on an effort level and more importantly on the level of like, I'm not sure she'd be capable of faking that detailed of a scumread that early. It's also pretty rare for mafia to come in with that heavy of a read that early in the game, because there's just not a lot that they can get out of that kind of a push at that time, and because they generally speaking prefer to wait to see how town is going to react to stuff before taking a hard stance on anything. If you look at the way the read progressed for her, she just kind of weakly backed off it after a while, so essentially all that effort that she went into, of setting up a push on Oka and such, was just wasted. That's not typical mafia behavior. They don't like to just give up on pushes that they've spent a bunch of effort on. They have an agenda and when they make that kind of a push, they want to get mileage out of it.In post 1017, WhyMafia wrote:Nancy can you elaborate on this? I keep re-reading Flicker and I guess I see some of the things you see, but not all of it. Why is her nuance and care regarding Oka towny? Can you describe how it makes sense the way she unvoted Oka to not really come from scum?
Heh. I appreciate this response a lot. There's a level here that I think is pretty town and I'll talk about it at some point regardless of where read on you ends up.In post 1014, WhyMafia wrote:My reads aren't wishy washy. Explicitly I like Iceman and you. I lean town Trinity and Quick. I'm bewildered by Oka. I need to re-read FF and Flicker. I scum read Eragon.
