Labyrinth Mafia (Endgame)

[Shoshin]

According to Math that game (who is a reputable source), Wisdom is very strong scum who heavily manipulates his meta. So all that stuff about how "scum always bus Creature" is more bullshit from Wisdom. Wisdom knows scum manipulate meta because he does it himself.

[Nancy Drew 39]

In the scum PM, Wisdom says to kill Math because town can easily change their reads at any moment. So the whole, "I'd never kill Reality because she townread me" bit is straight-up bullshit.

I mistakenly stopped a scum wagon and I was the NK that night, so scum can and do kill people townreading them. Like I said, Reality/Wheme kills either point to you or scum framing you.

Scum often orchestrates their kills to create WIFOM.

What may be hillariously ironic is if Reality was unknowingly wolfsiding.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Wisdom interacts with scum partner in the thread quite a bit, so that's consistent with his interactions here.

It would be really interesting to see a Taly scumchat just for comparison.

But the scumchat I most want to see is random’s. @randomidget are you ever planning on linking me to a scumchat of yours, so that I can compare and contrast it with our hood?

[Shoshin]

I've been framed, Nancy.

The #1 thing that should tell you I'm town here is the way I tried to stop the Sajj mislynch. If I had been successful, town wins this game 9 times out of 10. Think about that.

If I can convince you I'm town, we can win this game 100% by lynching Wisdom. Otherwise, we have to make the right call today.

[Shoshin]

Regardless of alignment, Random played this game very poorly.

He spent all of D1 looking to mislynch, until eventually settling on less valuable scum. That's poor play as either alignment.

Then he spends the early part of D2 going after Nico, the obvious cop. Then he goes after me instead of Creature.

Then he lurks most of the game, occassionally chiming in to push pro-scum objectives - lynching Angel, calling me scummy, pushing my lynch over Chick's but eventually bussing the inevitable, mislynching Sajj for mechanical reasons without any critical thought, calling my reasons for defending Sajj scummy, etc.

He's blatantly scum. The real question is whether he's ever this bad as town.

[Wisdom]

In the scum PM, Wisdom says to kill Math because town can easily change their reads at any moment. So the whole, "I'd never kill Reality because she townread me" bit is straight-up bullshit.

Math is not ank

[Shoshin]

You said, "town can easily change their reads," not "Math can easily change his reads."

[Wisdom]

According to Math that game (who is a reputable source), Wisdom is very strong scum who heavily manipulates his meta. So all that stuff about how "scum always bus Creature" is more bullshit from Wisdom. Wisdom knows scum manipulate meta because he does it himself.

Creature is not wisdom

[Wisdom]

You said, "town can easily change their reads," not "Math can easily change his reads."

which is generally a fact
It doesnt apply when i have a clear road to winning by keeping ank alive

[Wisdom]

i cant take this anymore
Shoshin is so fucking obviously bsing and im staying here listening to her because nancy is incapable of seeing whats in front of her eyes

[Nancy Drew 39]

According to Math that game (who is a reputable source), Wisdom is very strong scum who heavily manipulates his meta. So all that stuff about how "scum always bus Creature" is more bullshit from Wisdom. Wisdom knows scum manipulate meta because he does it himself.

Creature is not wisdom

Scum usually do bus Creature except when it’s in their interest to do otherwise. Creature was both strongman and redirecter. Scum wanted to keep that slot alive as long as possible.

[Wisdom]

like all shoshin had to say about coalition is
"wisdom interacted with people there
Wisdom interacted with people here
Ergo wisdom is scum"

Show me where my reachouts are in coalition
Show me where my rage is in coalition
Show me where anything ive done in this game that i cant possibly do as scum is in coalition
Yes im good as scum but not this fucking good

[the worst]

Ank is a crazy strong town player

This is not what you said on D1. Can you explain the change?

Please explain.

this goes well beyond this game.
I probably underestimated Ank a fair bit in our early interactions but have learned I was st00pid

I'm not sure what you want me to say here.

[Shoshin]

What changed your mind?

What did you learn?

[Nancy Drew 39]

Upon looking at the wagons, I'm thinking this ability is probably done by town within {the worst, Reality Check, Sajj}

If Creature were scum, then it'd make more sense to remove players ON his wagon, and to cause WIFOM.

A lot of the worst's, reality's, and Sajj's interactions in this game were amongst each other - as they were very active.

So now I'm little worried about the Creature wagon, nobody's outright defended it besides maybe Nancy before her vote, but I don't think people are engaging with that.

Wheme was the ONLY sensible vote on that wagon, but he's going for Joral... who I should ISO to strengthen my read there - because I think he's town, but I don't where his heads at in the game if he's not voting independently. Dislike the tgkfap vote much like the rest of their posts.

This is the key post, Nancy.

I don't want you to get upset at me, but I think you're misreading what Taly said here.

Taly says that the underground removal ability comes from town.

Then Taly contradicts himself by saying, "If Creature is scum, he would have removed players on his wagon," implying that the removal ability comes from scum, and saying that Creature's not scum because Creature didn't remove anyone from his wagon.

Then Taly concludes that Creature's probably town (doesn't want to say this outright, because of course he's waiting to see how town reacts). His reasoning: the wagon sucks. If it sucks, why is he on it?

Okay, I understood everything except for mixing up piling with removal. My opinion on this is the same as what I posted previously.

[the worst]

What changed your mind?

What did you learn?

that she is very competent

can you show me like what part of my d1 posting is making you confused?

[Shoshin]

Okay, I understood everything except for mixing up piling with removal. My opinion on this is the same as what I posted previously.

Yes, the removal point is all I was referring to. My point is that Taly was trying to get people to question lynching Creature.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Is random ever going to give me a link to his scumchat?

[Shoshin]

I went looking for one. Found this from a ccouple years ago: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=69019

The game is here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=68901

I skimmed the chat and game but don't think it's very telling because of age. But either way, he hasn't done anything this game outside his capability as scum.

[Shoshin]

Have you seen any of his town games?

[Nancy Drew 39]

I went looking for one. Found this from a ccouple years ago: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=94&t=69019

The game is here: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=68901

I skimmed the chat and game but don't think it's very telling because of age. But either way, he hasn't done anything this game outside his capability as scum.

Thanks but neither really told me too much.

[Nancy Drew 39]

Have you seen any of his town games?

No, why did CS think this was random’s scum meta?

[the worst]

Just gonna pop in and say Rando's meta is NAI here. he's scum with wisdom by gamestate, or town.

[Shoshin]

Just gonna pop in and say Rando's meta is NAI here. he's scum with wisdom by gamestate, or town.

He's also scum via behaviors. You disagree with my case?

[Shoshin]

can you show me like what part of my d1 posting is making you confused?

You said Ank was "badtown" on D1. But more recently (like today or yesterday), you said she's a "crazy strong town player." The truth is neither: she's hit or miss, and this game she was miss. I'd like to know why you said she was "badtown" on D1, and then later said she was "crazy strong town." What changed?

I'd also like to know why you townread Sajj on D1, why you refused to answer my question about her, why you said you were intentionally obscuring your read to do something, and what it was you were doing.