Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[OkaPoka]

but do you policy lynch ics?

Trying to pull up a bunch of other stuff but I'll answer this now since you've asked twice.

On D1 or D2 no. After that I think you should yes. Here is why.

As a town player and IC is just a more experienced player to help find scum. To me they only have a slight advantage although most of that is lost because new players can be a pain in the ass.

As a scum player they are like a super heros. They can easily sway new players into confusion and mislynches. There is a much bigger advantage to a scum!IC.

I also feel like scum is going to night kill the active/most experienced players first. So it brings in the whole..... why is the IC still alive after a few nights?


I just think that a town!IC makes LYLO super difficult.


Of course if we have a strong read on someone other then the IC we would lynch them instead.

Tldr..... If we have no super strong roads then IC should be lynched before LYLO.

Tldr..... If we have no super strong roads then IC should be lynched before LYLO.

What I'm saying is

nancy needs scrutiny now.

not IC should be our go to compromise lynch the day before lylo.

these are different things

[OkaPoka]

No? Iceman was saying that we should policy lynch the IC the day before lylo.

Wrong that's what several people misconstrued it into.

I reiterated my point several times in that its very easy for new players to completely trust the IC by mistake. The IC can easily manipulate the new players and sometimes do it on accident.

My statement was that if the IC is still around by day 3 there should be some extra scrutiny placed on them. More so then a non-ic.

And I'm saying that this whole shtick im doing has nothing to do with trusting ICs are not trusting ICs. nancy is a talented scum player. That's why she deserves scrutiny.

[IcemanCh]

K fine.

As of now you are my top scum pick

[Formerfish]

His answer and reasoning was fleshed out way more than that, and you know that because I made a snarky comment to you about jumping the gun on your scum read because you misunderstood something Iceman said. You replied that you could have done it differently, but oh well. So now youre misremembering again.

ninja- what are you not getting about this? That is the exact reason given by Iceman to look at the IC late game. The IC is usually going to be a stronger player because of what the role itself is. There is a reason that there are requirements for that position. Im not saying that they are crazy hard to fulfill, just that they are there and as a result new players are going to hold them in a different light. So you guys are saying the same thing with minor changes to nonsupport bearing beams to the overall argument.

[Formerfish]

VOTE: Oka

I am very much back here. This

re

misrepping of Iceman, after you were set straight, is just ugly to watch and its like you want to draw attention away from yourself just 1v1ing the IC in a newbie game.

[nancy]

I'm going to unvote so that I don't have to watch thread carefully to make sure people don't get overexcited and hammer him when have ~5 days until deadline.

Unvote

No... this is not normal. What's up with thay.

Hm?

[OkaPoka]

In our previous game, if I were alive day 1 I would have said Formerfish, not HWS deserved my scrutiny.

In my previous scum game, if I rolled town, I would say have Ircher/Lefty deserved more scrutiny, not Una the IC.

This is one of his flesh out posts:

Let me clarify one more time becuae this is getting silly and distracting from finding scum.


Right now I believe that Nancy is town
Nancy would have to be an amazing scum player to not be town. To me Nancy is my first pick for town.

I made my comment about the IC because in the odd event that we have zero reads before a lylo that is where I would go. I don't see that happening though because Nancy is coming off so strongly as town.


For now we should set the issue aside and look for scum. Here is what I have so far.

Strong town: Nancy
Town Trinity FormerFish
Lean Town Erogon
Nuetral Okta Stanley Sarge
Scum Lean Flick

This doesn't make any sense, in fact it makes his reasoning worse because now we are never going to go with the proposed scenario. In what world will we have no reads by day 3? By virtue of nightkills and lynch flips we will have reads.

Fine, I guess his reasoning is technically right, but it would thus become non useful. His first suggestion was not of put scrutiny on IC now, its put scrutiny on IC and lynch IC if we have no strong reads. This could be a potential strategy, though I disagree with policy because it has the phrase "strong reads." What he is suggesting here imo is dangerous but its a strategy.

Then his refinement turns it into useless fluff that would never be used. There will never be a world without no reads by day 3.

And then he re refines his logic here:

As far as other things I don't like about Ice, his case on me is pretty bad if I am being honest. It's basically just one thing he is SRing me for and it's something that I don't think is AI.

I mean it's not though.... It's not conf!scum but, it's enough for me to feel comfortable pushing on you. The fact that you keep twisting it into something it's not and that you're so defensive about the entire thing makes me feel that I'm right about it.

The basic fact is that only scum or anti-town just throws votes/reads out there with ZERO to back it up. Your entire first read was based on a completely bad analysis of the vote counts and everyone called you on it. The fact that you didn't read in and of it self is just anti-town. The fact that you attempted a bad read and then just shrugged your shoulders is what makes me think scum.

PLing is reserved for play that is blatately Anti-Town and it's been demonstraighted that there is a pattern of this. Ice is basically making the argument that IC's have a BoP, which is asanine since I don't think anyone has a BoP and secondly he is assuming ALL IC's opperate this way, which is kinda disgusting. You should vote people based on if they are Scummy or not, not because they just happen to still be in the game. It's completely backwards logic.

I'm not sure why you're trying to consistently twist what I say. I'm not for a policy lynch on the IC. What I am for in the lack of any good leads putting extra scrutiny on the IC as the most experienced player and one that can easily sway the game as scum. The key part here is the LACK OF ANY GOOD LEADS. If the current game state was right before LYLO I wouldn't lynch Nancy since I'm fairly confident she is town and that is a lead. In the first game that I played we went to LyLo with the IC. The IC was town. I had a scum read on them the entire time. I'm very aware that not everything fits into nice little rules that can be used to sort people.

ONLY Scum do that? Orly? I think I pointed out to someone that just because I haven't caught up doesn't mean that that is Scummy, it just means that people haven't seen Town do that before, or they are just trying to push that as Scummy. I have seen lots of Town not catch up after replacing in.. It's not Scummy at all. Some people make a that their regular way of replacing in, Titus being one example. Also, I didn't say nor imply any of what Ice is pushing on me.

Yea, that's nice that you can find some obscure reference for a different player that did the same thing you did. Totally means you're not scum /eyeroll

Why is that Scummy? It's not, you've just never come across anyone who doesn't catch up as Town. In fact, it sounds like this whole read is based on the theory of what YOU would do as Town Scum instead of actually looking at why I have taken this course of action. Theory reads don't get you that far actually, and I've known Scum to use them more than Town, so...

This was never answered. Instead, we see the following two posts where Ice goes Straight to putting me as his biggest SR to promply voting for me shortly after that.

It's not the act it's the motivation. I suspect that you replaced into a scum slot, thought you could throw something super scummy out there and get away with it. Cause everyone would say..... no way would scum come in and do something so scummy. Must be lazy town.

Town's motivation is to find scum. In order to do that you have to put the work in. You have to understand the current game state. You have to understand the history generated so far.
Scum's motivation is to sow confusion and convince everyone to lynch town. You don't HAVE to have an understanding of the current game state to do that.

So you have three options as scum.

1. Read and catch up. Put the effort in and jump in to mix in with everyone.
2. Don't read and wing it. Maybe you can get by maybe you can't.
3. Don't read but, announce you won't read. That way any bad reads or mistakes can easily be brushed off as... oh I didn't know about that history.

Sorry..... Not catching up is the most Anti-Town thing I can think of. You're basically asking everyone to start over.

His case is so weak I can't even believe it's a thing, let alone something to make someone a top SR.

VOTE: Ice

Saying it's weak doesn't actually make it weak.

Every post since from you has just confirmed my suspicion of you being scum. The last time I saw this from someone they were just about to be lynched. They threw and absolute tantrum over it. Thrashing about and swinging at everyone. It worked cause they scared everyone off through emotional appeal. Made the game an absolute toxic mess. And it worked. He was scum, he got all the PRs revealed the next day before he finally got lynched. It took two power role claims to finally get him lynched. So I don't think what you're doing is unreasonable but, it is 100% scum.

Now its about leads? Now its about scrutiny on the IC for lack of good leads? So what, if we don't have an investigative claim we scrutinize the IC because we have no leads?

To summarize:
He wants to policy lynch if we don't have a strong way to go by day 3, I vote him.
He "refines" it to become an utterly useless strategy that will never happen, now its about having either reads or no reads.
He "rerefines" it to becoming a thing about having strong leads to scrutinze.

So what is it?

[OkaPoka]

His answer and reasoning was fleshed out way more than that, and you know that because I made a snarky comment to you about jumping the gun on your scum read because you misunderstood something Iceman said. You replied that you could have done it differently, but oh well. So now youre misremembering again.

ninja- what are you not getting about this? That is the exact reason given by Iceman to look at the IC late game. The IC is usually going to be a stronger player because of what the role itself is. There is a reason that there are requirements for that position. Im not saying that they are crazy hard to fulfill, just that they are there and as a result new players are going to hold them in a different light. So you guys are saying the same thing with minor changes to nonsupport bearing beams to the overall argument.

this is bullshit and you know it

new player might look at them in a different light
but there is no way an IC is usually a stronger player

[Quick]

DAMMIT YOU STOLE MY PAGE TOP
that's definitely evidence that you are scum *points finger*

Reusing the same joke is kinda Scummy.

Discuss.

[Quick]

Because if you are scum, we lynch me today, you can nk one of those two and worst case scenario the other person is scum, nobody here is going to have the guts to oppose you and your bloc.

I didn't realize I was on the Town block...

[Quick]

No? Iceman was saying that we should policy lynch the IC the day before lylo.

Wrong that's what several people misconstrued it into.

I reiterated my point several times in that its very easy for new players to completely trust the IC by mistake. The IC can easily manipulate the new players and sometimes do it on accident.

My statement was that if the IC is still around by day 3 there should be some extra scrutiny placed on them. More so then a non-ic.

You said not to look at the IC until D3 at which point, we should heavily consider lynching them if they are still alive. I am not construing anything. Sure, you didn't actually say Policy Lynch, but that's still basically what you were implying.

[nancy]

Do you just not have reads this game, Quick?

[Quick]

Do you just not have reads this game, Quick?

IDK what gives you that idea. Look at the previous post to this one I quoted, for example.

[nancy]

So you're just going to acquiesce to an Oka lynch?

[Quick]

So you're just going to acquiesce to an Oka lynch?

Wut?

[OkaPoka]

Because if you are scum, we lynch me today, you can nk one of those two and worst case scenario the other person is scum, nobody here is going to have the guts to oppose you and your bloc.

I didn't realize I was on the Town block...

Well I'm reading you as town.

[Quick]

So you're just going to acquiesce to an Oka lynch?

Actually, now that I think about it, I have to ask where exactly is the resistance to lynching Oka here? Seems no one is really that concerned that Oka is getting lynched, which makes me think Oka had a good shot at being Town here.

[OkaPoka]

im trying to resist being lynch

[TrinityNZ]

@Trinity, when you have the chance, please talk about why you posted 1008, please, in as much detail as possible, talk about your FF read and your Oka read and how both of those reads have evolved for you over the course of the day so far, and please talk about who think is mafia right now and why.

SorryI haven’t had a chance to do this yet - I will though.

[WhyMafia]

So you're just going to acquiesce to an Oka lynch?

Actually, now that I think about it, I have to ask where exactly is the resistance to lynching Oka here? Seems no one is really that concerned that Oka is getting lynched, which makes me think Oka had a good shot at being Town here.

I mean he was a heavy contender for a while now and his wagon kept dying off

[WhyMafia]

You can't say there's a possibility for him being town

bc

there's a lack of resistance to this wagon

[OkaPoka]

my wagon keeps dying off because im town

nobody is coming here and actively derailing the wagon except me

because im town

[Quick]

You can't say there's a possibility for him being town

bc

there's a lack of resistance to this wagon

Yes, you can. I've seen it happen a ton.

[WhyMafia]

There's been multiple times his wagon has died too /shrug

[OkaPoka]

yes thanks for repeating what ive said in a more direct way