Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[BlackVoid]

Kinda bad timing because I have to go to work. Are you going to be around at midnight or so?

[skitter30]

sorry i just missed you

i'll try to be on tonight, and i'll be around tomorrow morning/early afternoon before v/la probably, but then probably not till sunday night

[Irrelephant11]

I wanted you to tell me why my vca suggesting NM is less likely to be scum is ridiculous but your townread of Not_Mafia isn’t. It was basically a test of how well you’ve been reading (especially my posts). Seems like the answer is “not super well”, which is frustrating but makes some of the things you’ve said that I find scummy less AI.

Finding me+Nauci as the scumteam because Nauci said I would attack strong town players as scum is silly

My last stance on a Skitter is that she is my third towniest read, unless you happen to be scum. So I’m definitely not trying to discredit her, but thanks for the misrep. I’m not even super scumreading you I’m just trying to PoE from a potential town!tw and put pressure where that leads me.

Nauci might be trying to pocket me today I guess. I was starting to townread her but I’m learning in this and other games that I’m easily influenced by others’ reads of me. Hm.

Interested in where Keyser is going to go

[Gustavo]

Interested in where Keyser is going to go

Me too.

[Nauci]

UNVOTE:

Many thoughts

I wish I was in a better place to think and explain them

[Nauci]

Bv what's your read on TW

[skitter30]

i have to look at nauci again; i'll do that after i catchup or later tonight or something (ie going to go through 2767 seperately)

--

@bv: very very very early on i got some not-partner tells from tw and mom

they both voted nauci at just the same time within like posts of each other; it didn't feel like partners to me

and tw had a vote on mom that in context felt really wrong to be on partners too - 315 i think

also i thought 794 kinda read like white-knighting

i guess i'm just a little unsure if she was trying to protect a partner or whitenight a town lynch

i'm kinda tending towards the latter on associatives but tw is like soooooo independently scummy so i'm having trouble reconciling both things

--

i really hate that tw is following enough along to make non-game relevant comments but refuses to clarify anything

--

VOTE: black void

I find it interesting he said he had mom as his top scum read but never votes. He also is seen asking why mom/bernie can’t be town v town. Later he’s talking about mom and the worst. Mom’s wagon already has 4 and He says he’s thinking of voting the worst. Why would he vote the worst over mom who is his top scum read and has the bigger wagon? He then disappeared and we lynched mom.

I saw mom pushing hard early day 1 for nm’s predecessor so for now nm can be left to continue playing against his win condition imo.

i don't find anything scummy with how bv approached the mom wagon tbh; it's fairly inline with how he votes as town and how he approaches the game

i don't like this blackvoid push tbh

--

i mean i guess if that's the best we're going to get from you ...

i'm going to be v/la this whole weekend so i guess i'll be waiting a while

i feel like i ought to be voting somewhere

VOTE: irrelephant

i think is where i want to go for now

do tell!

Also you're real paranoid that Nauci is pocketing you but surprisingly certain that BV isn't, and is just town (as indicated by your casual and friendly willingness to go back and forth with ideas and questions this game day). Why is that?

I don't like how BV is defending both NM and tw without voting anybody, and while completely ignoring the worst's implication that he has some sort of result on him. I get the feeling tw is waiting for BV's response and I think his lack of response is actually telling.

pedit: I can and will get on board with that, at least for now. VOTE: blackvoid

i'm somewhere at:

{gustavo}
{ep}
{bv, bernie}
{nm} -----> null
{nauci, keyser}
{irrelephant}
{tw}

the way ep handled tw's claim i think is pretty townie tbh. like i don't think he was trying to take advantage of town!tw's claim to get in a mislynch; it felt pretty genuine to me and like he wanted to clarify things as much as possible

i like that he paraphrased the neighborhood pt and that tw agreed with how he presented that convo

it felt very ... earnest and honest and helpful to me, i guess

bv i really like solving the game with; when we both know we're town we work super super well together and we kinda bounce ideas off of each other and we both think about the game the same way and it's just a really great collaboration and i'm happy that he's caught up so we can try to sort this together

i'm not *100%* confident that he's town; we haven't reached newbie 1815 levels of mindmelding yet; but he's more likely town than not and until i see actually scummy things from him i want to work with him; like i don't think any of the things people are saying are scummy about him are actually scummy from him. like i don't think not-voting is scummy from him (now or yesterday); that's just how he plays

i feel like he's trying to work with me and understand my mindset and clarify his own and is interacting with a townread the way i'd expect, whereas nauci just keeps announcing that she thinks i'm town but doesn't do anything with it, if that makes sense

i will note that i think that scum!bv tries to pocket me always tho which is where some of the paranoia comes from, but idk, overall i don't think that's happening - like i feel like the fact that he townreads me is a real approach he has to the game because that stance is reflected in most of his posts.

like i he's showing me that he townreads me from how he interacts with/about me. nauci i feel like is more telling me she's townreading me

that was a lot of words but i hope that made sense

and i don't really townread you and i think your associatives with mom are icky so this is where i want to go for now

ok getting long so new post for the next page

[skitter30]

I don’t think I can trust you. I actually think you’re a good chance at being mom’s partner.

You should. I've already put much more into this game than I've ever done as scum over whole games. As scum, I would almost certainly have voted Momrangal early on because looking good is more important than being right. I was unsure between

Momrangal and TheWorst and really wanted to make sure I made the right decision there. I would

never

have made a post like 2423 as scum. I wouldn't spend a whole catchup pushing my partner and then flush any potential towncred I could get down the toilet by backing off at the last moment.

I also didn't "disappear." I went to sleep and when I woke up, I found out N_M hammered. I don't think I can convince you that not voting until you're ready isn't anti-town but since you know for a fact, I hold onto my vote, you should see that it isn't alignment indicative.

ftr i agree with this

bv has a pretty good sense of associatives and optics and like i think he knew it was probably going to be a mom lynch - as scum i think he wants to be on that wagon and wouldn't like hold off with some last minute doubt as her wagon was gaining momentum

like as scum i think he just commits to a scumread to get the cred and is very obvious about it so he can point to that the next day; he doesn't dance around voting her or not when she's about to be lynched and like purposefully invite scumreads the next day; like i think scum!him knows how to read the game well enough to tell that he'll get blowback when she flips red

and i know that being *right* and voting actual scum matters a lot to him; waiting till he sure is inline with his general approach to the game

[skitter30]

although i'm a little bit surprised that you missed that ep said tw was going to target you

[Irrelephant11]

You say “you” but you’re not voting anyone? Do you mean me?

[Bernie Sanders]

Out the result duck

[skitter30]

You say “you” but you’re not voting anyone? Do you mean me?

whoops that was directed at bv

i'm voting you tho

[skitter30]

Out the result duck

[skitter30]

I know you're the only one giving him towncred, and I think you should stop doing that. His actions don't deserve towncred because waiting for a claim doesn't help him as scum, and lolhammering is what he always does as his NAI meta. The only reason I can see to give him towncred is that you somehow know he's town, or based on my vca, which you are now skating over how you thought it was ridiculous and still haven't responded to the expanded version you asked for

i think bv made a solid point wrt the hammer, that it's likely that scum!nm would try to force a cc.

it's possible he wouldn't have, but i agree that in the context of that game bv linked, nm ought to get some townpoints for that hammer. it's not like a solid townread or anything, but it is a town-indicator imo

i dont' understand the conclusion you draw that bv saying this is a town-indicator for nm means he knows nm is town

if anything town!nm is kinda the perfect mislynch target so scum!bv wouldn't really want to move in the direction of townreading him imo unless they were like partners; like why bother bringing this up at all instead of letting nm be suspected for the hammer?

[Nauci]

Out the result duck

[skitter30]

@brassherald: I'm v/la through Monday because my thermometer says 103.2

Sorry guys thought I could still catch up but the brain fog is overwhelming. At least my cat likes me when I'm warm

feel better

[skitter30]

Brief skim I don't know if I agree with Irrelephant but I like the push and didn't like bvs responses

VOTE: bv

Sorry I'll be back to more analysis when o can think straight

ok when you feel better i'd appreciate it if you can explain what you don't like about bv's responses

[skitter30]

I also think my slot may have been shot N1. I didn't really consider it a real possibility before because I hadn't replaced in by then and the only thing my pred did was rap and I thought that was a pretty bad way to play 1-shot BP. But he also softed having a PR at some points by claiming that he was laying low and that might have been what drew the kill.

Nauci making such a big deal about it and pointedly asking me about it feels like inside info.

huh

can you point to where you think math did that?

honestly this slot is about as weird an nk as gustavo tbh; especially since math was basically awol for most of day1 anyways

i don't think this impacts my townread of gustavo even though he might not have been the nk that night

so we now have (claims and/or flips)
errant - 1shot neighborizer
bv - 1shot bp
shoshin - odd night doc

[Bernie Sanders]

duck turn is rather strange actually
I assumed if town a non-conclusive result or something resembling an inno
but if he's been beating around the bush so long on a soft guilty that's bizarre
anyone who's been in that position knows it's very very not fun holding in the urge if you think you have something real

Duck I think you have to out your last night result now

[skitter30]

eveyrthing about this claim-thing is just really, really, really rubbing me the wrong way

[Bernie Sanders]

I'm actually just getting tired of the bullshit too and it's really starting to hold the game up at this point

[Irrelephant11]

You say “you” but you’re not voting anyone? Do you mean me?

whoops that was directed at bv

i'm voting you tho

So you are

[Irrelephant11]

Out the result duck

[the worst]

I need to catch up properly before I'm comfortable doing that

odds are you confbiased farts are just going to mislynch me anyway so I may as well be of some use. :/

[the worst]

w/e BV owns a firearm