Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[WhyMafia]

Like - I don’t disagree that trinity is scummy. But nancy, for someone who has defended trinity throughout the game, I simply cannot fathom how you reversed her read on that. What is her scum motivaton? Why would she jump off the wagon, only to re-join it later? Her thinking it’s too scummy to be scum just seems to resonate with me. It doesn’t make sense, but like it’s not inherently scummy, is it? There’s also the matter of partners as you mentioned : P

[WhyMafia]

Ayy got my page top
Am I a cool kid now : D

[nancy]

Oka antialignments.

I've ruled out Trinity, WhyMafia, FF, Iceman, and Quick as Oka partners, in that order of strength.

The way he's been egging on the 1v1 between FF/Quick is just something you only really see when it's a TvT, and I think the way that Oka has interacted with Quick and FF doesn't happen if they're partners. He definitely doesn't egg on Quick when FF is his scumbud and I don't think the way he townread Quick happens too often if they're partners. I don't think he can't ever be scum with Quick but I think it's unlikely. I have him unaligned with Iceman for the way he's incessantly picked apart Iceman's PL thing and the way Iceman has been pushing him.

He's not with Trinity for obvious reasons, and I don't think WhyMafia treats his wagon or Trinity this way if they're partners basically ever.

I have him as weakly unaligned with Flicker because of the way Flicker has treated him. Most likely partner is Eragon.

[nancy]

Like - I don’t disagree that trinity is scummy. But nancy, for someone who has defended trinity throughout the game, I simply cannot fathom how you reversed her read on that. What is her scum motivaton? Why would she jump off the wagon, only to re-join it later? Her thinking it’s too scummy to be scum just seems to resonate with me. It doesn’t make sense, but like it’s not inherently scummy, is it? There’s also the matter of partners as you mentioned : P

There's a huge amount of scum motivation to vote the biggest wagon at a point where she is starting to be run up.

[WhyMafia]

maybe I’ll compromise and vote trinity after I re-read her ISO, but for now, I’m not convinced when Oka’s wagon has called off how many times now ? Nancy, does his response to being wagoned up ever come from town?

[WhyMafia]

Like - I don’t disagree that trinity is scummy. But nancy, for someone who has defended trinity throughout the game, I simply cannot fathom how you reversed her read on that. What is her scum motivaton? Why would she jump off the wagon, only to re-join it later? Her thinking it’s too scummy to be scum just seems to resonate with me. It doesn’t make sense, but like it’s not inherently scummy, is it? There’s also the matter of partners as you mentioned : P

There's a huge amount of scum motivation to vote the biggest wagon at a point where she is starting to be run up.

Why would she hop-off? And other people have been completely split on Oka all game as well. We consistently hang our minds on him, and just can’t come to a consensus.

I’m gonna look at the possible repercussions of all flips tomorrow morning when I’m able to think straight

[nancy]

Because if she's mafia then she sees the Oka wagon dying, sees her own wagon gaining steam, and thinks that she needs to vote for self-preservation, her previous reads be damned.

I guess I can squint and see what you mean WhyMafia? Like, my gut reaction to that readflip is just "holy shit she is mafia" but if I take a step back I can maybe see just having no clue about anything and confusing herself back into scumreading Oka? It does line up with her play / mindset so far, I guess?

Eh.

Yeah.

I think also I'll just hate myself if I lynch a townread that I've had all day just because she didn't something that logically makes almost no sense to me. And yeah I don't really have any realistic partners for her at this point.

Vote: OkaPoka

[nancy]

@Everyone Oka is at L-1.

Don't put the last vote / hammer down without at least 24 hours warning, please.

[nancy]

OkaPoka (4) - IcemanCh, WhyMafia, TrinityNZ, nancy
TrinityNZ (3) - OkaPoka, Flicker, Eragon
Formerfish (1) - Quick
Quick (1) - Formerfish

Not Voting (0) -

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.


Yeah. Looking at wagons, I feel good about this lynch.

[Formerfish]

@ff
We aren't lynching Quick today.

Whyd you say this?

[Micc]

This is a friendly reminder that although mafia can be a stressful game that with tough personal interactions, the expectation is that players refrain from excessively abusive behavior. I've reviewed the posts since my most recent votecount. While I don't think any posts have crossed that line, I want to remind everyone that this is a game to be played for enjoyment, and request that everyone make a conscious effort to keep the game civil and respectful.

Votecount 1.21

OkaPoka (4) -

IcemanCh, WhyMafia, TrinityNZ, nancy

TrinityNZ (3) -

OkaPoka, Flicker, Eragon

Formerfish (1) -

Quick

Quick (1) -

Formerfish

Not Voting (0) -

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2018-07-23 11:49:57).

[OkaPoka]

hey nancy, how much does mislynching make you doubt yourself for the rest of the game?

@ff because its unrealistic

[OkaPoka]

@nancy, explain to me the town motivation of refusing to interact with other people.

[Formerfish]

nancy, it kinda seems like you have a stronger scum read on trinity, i could be wrong though. Am I?

[TrinityNZ]

That was directed at Nancy
@eragon why trinity?

because they are my top SR, one reason(and one of the bigger ones) is that they have no progression on there reads, and yes, it might seem like a bit of an OMGUS, but they dont MENTION my name one between putting me from Lean Town to Null to Top Scum

Eragon, you’re right, I didn’t have a good reason, I think I put you at the bottom of the list because I had had no interaction with you, as you haven’t been around much. I know you’ve been on V/LA but it seems like it’s been a really long time, and at a convenient time, so almost looks like you were trying to absent yourself from the Day 1 lynch, which did seem to me like a tactic a mafia would use. If I survive today, I hope to interact with you more.

[OkaPoka]

Also convenient to not talk with the person that scumreads you the most.

[nancy]

hey nancy, how much does mislynching make you doubt yourself for the rest of the game?

If you mislynch, you have to go over your reads and your worlds and look at where you went wrong, look at the way the lynch formed and how people interacted with it and see if you can find anything in there that looks like a lead you want to follow. I've gone over what I look for in wagons some already.

It wouldn't make me doubt myself for the rest of the game at all, it would just make me reassess stuff and try to figure out where I went wrong and fix my reads. It's kind of inevitable that you're going to have wrong scumreads in this game, so you just have to bounce back as best you can and get back to work on solving the game. Reassessing is absolutely something that you need to learn how to do to be a good town player and it's probably one of the most difficult (and to me, one of the most interesting) parts of the game.

[Quick]

I have him unaligned with Iceman for the way he's incessantly picked apart Iceman's PL thing and the way Iceman has been pushing him.

What makes you think that isn't distancing? I don't do Pre-Flip, cuz it's really really bad and stuff, but if you ARE going to go that route (clearly I can't tell you how to play), then what exactly is stopping that from being SvS?

In any case, this is the EXACT reason why I generally HATE talking about SvS without a flip - because it's all pretty much WIFOM anyways and it doesn't mean shit until we actually get a Scum flip, so why bother talking about it now?

[OkaPoka]

If I die and trinity lives. She may never have to cite her sources. And she is refusing to interact with me.

So someone else get trinity to answer my questions please and thank you, voting trinity would be nice.

thx

[Formerfish]

If I cant get Quick today, I can get his partner.

VOTE: Trinity

[Quick]

I am coming around on Trinity. Feeling more and more like that is Scum.

Going to consolidate the wagons at this point, hate unvoting FF, but we need stances on stuff.

(was going to vote Trinity here). No longer going to because Trinity is at L-1.

Consider this an intent to hammer.

[nancy]

nancy, it kinda seems like you have a stronger scum read on trinity, i could be wrong though. Am I?

My read on her is a big question mark at the moment. I think she's always town if Oka is mafia but if he's town then I just go back to the way she moved onto the wagon and there's a lot of scum motivation there I think. I think WhyMafia is probably right that it's not impossible for her to have had that readflip as town (I don't think the TWTBAW thing is anything), so no I don't scumread her more than Oka at all and the wagons also line up more with scum Oka worlds since I'm townreading everyone on the Oka wagon (except ?Trinity?) and I scumread both Oka/Eragon, who are pushing Trinity.

[Quick]

nancy, it kinda seems like you have a stronger scum read on trinity, i could be wrong though. Am I?

My read on her is a big question mark at the moment. I think she's always town if Oka is mafia but if he's town then I just go back to the way she moved onto the wagon and there's a lot of scum motivation there I think. I think WhyMafia is probably right that it's not impossible for her to have had that readflip as town (I don't think the TWTBAW thing is anything), so no I don't scumread her more than Oka at all and the wagons also line up more with scum Oka worlds since I'm townreading everyone on the Oka wagon (except ?Trinity?) and I scumread both Oka/Eragon, who are pushing Trinity.

Your reads have changed... a lot... you need to work on that a bit. Pick a point of reference to work with and probably take notes.

[nancy]

I have him unaligned with Iceman for the way he's incessantly picked apart Iceman's PL thing and the way Iceman has been pushing him.

What makes you think that isn't distancing? I don't do Pre-Flip, cuz it's really really bad and stuff, but if you ARE going to go that route (clearly I can't tell you how to play), then what exactly is stopping that from being SvS?

In any case, this is the EXACT reason why I generally HATE talking about SvS without a flip - because it's all pretty much WIFOM anyways and it doesn't mean shit until we actually get a Scum flip, so why bother talking about it now?

?

Nothing that I posted is preflip.

I don't think the manner in which he pushed Oka when I unvoted to give the game space is something he does if they're partners. When mafia bus each other they tend to do it in a way that doesn't really get their partner lynched so much as make them look good in case their partner does get lynched. Like, Iceman is explicitly trying to get Oka lynched and frustrated that people aren't lynching him and it's pretty unlikely for that to be his play as Oka's partner. Added to that, I don't think Oka would try to drag his partner through the mud all game by picking apart his PL post. It brings a lot of negative attention to Iceman and it trashes his credibility and that's just not the way partners usually do things. Put those two things together and I feel pretty comfortable calling them unaligned. Would I bet the game on it? Probably not. But I townread Iceman on top of this and I just don't think it's a likely world by any stretch.

[nancy]

Your reads have changed... a lot... you need to work on that a bit. Pick a point of reference to work with and probably take notes.

Reads changing is a bad thing because ______.