Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[Quick]

Your reads have changed... a lot... you need to work on that a bit. Pick a point of reference to work with and probably take notes.

Reads changing is a bad thing because ______.

It makes you NOT dependable.

[Formerfish]

nancy, it kinda seems like you have a stronger scum read on trinity, i could be wrong though. Am I?

My read on her is a big question mark at the moment. I think she's always town if Oka is mafia but if he's town then I just go back to the way she moved onto the wagon and there's a lot of scum motivation there I think. I think WhyMafia is probably right that it's not impossible for her to have had that readflip as town (I don't think the TWTBAW thing is anything), so no I don't scumread her more than Oka at all and the wagons also line up more with scum Oka worlds since I'm townreading everyone on the Oka wagon (except ?Trinity?) and I scumread both Oka/Eragon, who are pushing Trinity.

I can see why you arrived where you did with the way you feel. I guess we are just seeing things slightly differently, which changes things drastically for us.

[nancy]

If I cant get Quick today, I can get his partner.

VOTE: Trinity

Why is Trinity mafia, FF?

[nancy]

Your reads have changed... a lot... you need to work on that a bit. Pick a point of reference to work with and probably take notes.

Reads changing is a bad thing because ______.

It makes you NOT dependable.

Lol?

[Quick]

I have him unaligned with Iceman for the way he's incessantly picked apart Iceman's PL thing and the way Iceman has been pushing him.

What makes you think that isn't distancing? I don't do Pre-Flip, cuz it's really really bad and stuff, but if you ARE going to go that route (clearly I can't tell you how to play), then what exactly is stopping that from being SvS?

In any case, this is the EXACT reason why I generally HATE talking about SvS without a flip - because it's all pretty much WIFOM anyways and it doesn't mean shit until we actually get a Scum flip, so why bother talking about it now?

?

Nothing that I posted is preflip.

I don't think the manner in which he pushed Oka when I unvoted to give the game space is something he does if they're partners. When mafia bus each other they tend to do it in a way that doesn't really get their partner lynched so much as make them look good in case their partner does get lynched. Like, Iceman is explicitly trying to get Oka lynched and frustrated that people aren't lynching him and it's pretty unlikely for that to be his play as Oka's partner. Added to that, I don't think Oka would try to drag his partner through the mud all game by picking apart his PL post. It brings a lot of negative attention to Iceman and it trashes his credibility and that's just not the way partners usually do things. Put those two things together and I feel pretty comfortable calling them unaligned. Would I bet the game on it? Probably not. But I townread Iceman on top of this and I just don't think it's a likely world by any stretch.

@nancy, here's the post:

Oka antialignments.

I've ruled out Trinity, WhyMafia, FF, Iceman, and Quick as Oka partners, in that order of strength.

The way he's been egging on the 1v1 between FF/Quick is just something you only really see when it's a TvT, and I think the way that Oka has interacted with Quick and FF doesn't happen if they're partners.

He definitely doesn't egg on Quick when FF is his scumbud

and I don't think the way he townread Quick happens too often if they're partners. I don't think he can't ever be scum with Quick but I think it's unlikely. I have him unaligned with Iceman for the way he's incessantly picked apart Iceman's PL thing and the way Iceman has been pushing him.

He's not with Trinity for obvious reasons, and I don't think WhyMafia treats his wagon or Trinity this way if they're partners basically ever.

I have him as weakly unaligned with Flicker because of the way Flicker has treated him. Most likely partner is Eragon.

You totally were talking about Pre-Flip here... I don't have a problem ruling out who isn't teamed with whom, but that's not the only thing you are doing here. You are kinda playing this mix and match type of thing where you are taking some from unaligned and some from SvS it looks like to me, correct me if I am wrong.

[OkaPoka]

@nancy, what do you make of trinity refusing to interact with me?

[Quick]

OK, I misread that, sorry.

[Formerfish]

If I cant get Quick today, I can get his partner.

VOTE: Trinity

Why is Trinity mafia, FF?

Early lean for the way she jumped on me during rvs.
I feel like she is sucking up to you as the IC.
She feels like she is tryharding to seem town.
The switch from rvs to serious votes for a broken meta argument. And her agreement with anyone else who scum read me. (this brings up and interesting question. If she was scumreading me for a busted meta, then why was she liking all the scum reads of other people on me, only to flip off of me when she isoed me and saw I was being aggressive? Wouldn't she still scum read me because she saw that other people had "good" reasons?)
The defensiveness with Oka when he was asking her questions, and the fact that she eventually says she isnt going to answer his questions anymore.

[Formerfish]

Biggest reason on Trinity was the whole reads list thing with nancy. I wasnt a scum read to trinity but i was in her bottom 3 and she could lynch any of us. When nancy called her on it she walks it back and lols that she thought nancy just wanted a list? What is that even about? Of course she wanted a list, she said so, one that listed your reads from most town to most scum. It came across as very fake and icky.

[nancy]

@nancy, what do you make of trinity refusing to interact with me?

Shrug? Am not really convinced that she is refusing to interact with you.

Anyway, I'm gonna bounce. Trinity needs to claim now that Quick has given intent to hammer.

[OkaPoka]

What, trinity literally said she is refusing to answer any questions from me...

[OkaPoka]

@TRINITY CLAIM

also answer my questions please

I am town. Just because I’m not very good at playing this game, I’m being mistakenly read as scum. I guess it’s my own fault, but that doesn’t make it right.

Oka I’m not answering any more questions from you, I’ve already said.

[nancy]

The defensiveness with Oka when he was asking her questions, and the fact that she eventually says she isnt going to answer his questions anymore.

Mmm. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable that she would be fed up with him here as town.

Don't disagree with any of your other reasoning.

[OkaPoka]

She picked the fight tho.

She accused me of something for y reason.

She hasn't given proper evidence of y reason.

[OkaPoka]

Talk to me about ff, write up a case with some evidence

OK, so I know this is going to make me look flaky, but looking for evidence has just made me confused! FF looks to me like apart from the interaction with Quick, he’s mainly spent time leaning on Oka and not really putting in the effort on everyone else. And I don’t think he’s tried hard to defend the votes on him. But I’ve had to admit that I do like that he’s after Oka as I think Oka could be scum, which would possibly, but not definitely, mean that FF isn’t.

My current thinking is:

Nancy - strong town. We all know why.
Oka - scum lean, mainly because of the weak case he was trying to make on me, and

poor answers to questions others have asked

.
Iceman - slight town lean, as I’ve liked his theory posts, although his vote on Quick seemed a bit forced, and not for the best of reasons. I don’t think not reading posts is AI.
Quick - slight scum lean. I initially didn’t think scum would be so blasé about the attack from IceMan. But some of his posts are scummy sounding, like ‘you are trying to upset me more and get me to make a mistake’. As mafia in the last game I worried about making mistakes, but in this game I’m not worried so much as what sort of mistakes can I make? I mean, I can make silly mistakes where people might think I’m stupid, but I can’t think what type of think a ‘mistake’ I could make that would be really bad.
Flicker - slight scum lean, the unvote of Oka seems strange.
Eragon - town lean originally, as he came in with a hiss and a roar, but that has tapered off, so null at the moment.
Why Mafia - town lean. I’m linking his posts. He’s put in a lot of effort really quickly and looks like he’s making an effort to understand the game, and made some good cases.
FF - was my strongest scum lean, but I’m backing off that, as noted above.

UNVOTE: FormerFish

the y reason in question

[nancy]

What, trinity literally said she is refusing to answer any questions from me...

Yeah I forgot she had said that.

pedit what did she accuse of you that she didn't give proper evidence before?

[OkaPoka]

"poor answers to questions other have asked"

[Formerfish]

Mmm. I don't think it's entirely unreasonable that she would be fed up with him here as town.

True, that is a thing that could be happening. If it were just that thing I dont think we would be having this little chat about her right now. Its not though and I guess im just seeing her reasoning being a little different.

[OkaPoka]

Oka, you asked for examples, so here’s a couple of things:

First, you said this:

Typically speaking, you should at least check in once every 24 hours at the bare minimum to comment on things, answer questions, or ask questions, but as the deadline gets closer, it is good to increase your posting and be more active, especially if no real lynch candidates have been presented imo.

Then, you said this about me to start reading me in scum, even though I was doing exactly what you said in the post above. And this seems to be the only reason you have for reading me as scum. I just don’t think it’s a good enough reason. It’s like you’re clutching at straws. you even noted you didn’t have any questions for me. And since this post, you’ve been constantly on my case.

yeah i think trinity is scum, she hasn't really meaningful engaged with anyone without really being prompted to.
feels like she is reading the thread, answers any questions directed at her and then disappears
town would be more proactive imo

VOTE: trinity
ff might hate me for voting her already but i don't really have questions for her

Below is an example of another post from you I didn’t like. I couldn’t see why you would ask this question.

@nancy what are the point of these questions, especially question number 3

Having spent about the last two hours reading recent posts, and responding, I’m coming to the conclusion that you might not be mafia after all. I think your push on me is so strong, that if I am mislynched, you would look really suspicious because your push has been so strong, and I don’t think you are that stupid. I think if you were mafia you would have been easing back a bit on me and letting others do the work. So after all that, I’m reading you as town now.

UNVOTE: OkaPoka

I have no idea who to vote for now, that will have to be tomorrow’s job, I’ve spent too much time here tonight already.

I hope I’ve answered everyone’s questions.

this is the closest i could find to her evidence.

only the first quote could be construed as an answer to a question, but its not being used as a poor answer to questions other people have asked

[nancy]

the y reason in question

Oh, right. Christ I forgot about that, lmao.

There's also the angle of, well if you're town you're going to want to talk about your scumreads a bunch, typically speaking, because you want your opinions heard and such, so not doing that especially when there's a lot of pressure on you feels like more of a scum thing.

[nancy]

Eragon /could/ be bussing there, I guess? Like, I kind of just think Eragon is mafia regardless of anything. But uhm, bussing there when you have tied wagons between your partner and a townie is increeeeeeeeeeedibly -EV play and if he her partner is then he's completely suicidal. I guess I wouldn't rule them out completely? Just seems really unlikely.

Kinda contemplating swinging the lynch to Eragon tbh but yeah nah, think we kinda need to resolve between Oka/Trinity today.

[OkaPoka]

Are we going to do some preflip speculation?

[Quick]

IIRC, Trinity is usually around at this time? Where is she? Why hasn't she claimed?

[nancy]

@Trinity you need to claim, which means telling us what the name of your role is in your role PM.

@Quick what are your reads right now? What happened the townread you stated on Trinity in 419/740/753? You also implied you thought she was town in 1178, what changed exactly? Why are you even willing to hammer? "Feel more and more like that is Scum"? What does that even mean?

[TrinityNZ]

I’ve been out for dinner, just got home. My role is Vanilla Townie.