Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[Formerfish]

Point out the post you are talking about? I remember saying I took a break because of outside influences. That was the Lions share of the reason. The other is that I figured out I had no good process to take from game to game and really do well with, that's why I'm in newbie games right now. To refine my own play.

[Quick]

Point out the post you are talking about? I remember saying I took a break because of outside influences. That was the Lions share of the reason. The other is that I figured out I had no good process to take from game to game and really do well with, that's why I'm in newbie games right now. To refine my own play.

Well, pretty sure you would have a better idea of what to look at than me... Mind digging up your post so we can discuss it? I just feel you could find it faster, that's all.

[Formerfish]

I do mind. I don't do fishing expeditions like that. You are the one who brought the post up, you can find it again if you want me to discuss it any further.

I also don't know what this has to do with anything.

[Flicker]

@Everyone voting or considering voting Trinity, please explain how her VT claim makes sense with her being mafia.

I mean... isn't VT a safe claim for scum? I know scum can gambit and fakeclaim PR, but that can backfire if the counterclaim is clearly town. Depending on the set-up, fakeclaiming to draw out a PR could also be countered by a protective PR. And, sometimes the PR doesn't counterclaim. It's a risk/reward thing I think some scum don't want to engage with.

What about Oka claiming VT makes sense, if he's mafia?

UNVOTE: WhyMafia

I had a sort of half-baked theory about scum partners, so I partly voted to test out the reactions to that, but I didn't get the reactions I was expecting, and WhyMafia did a couple things that close to 100% disprove my theory (I won't say what it was now, maybe on another game day or in the post-game), so there's that. In terms of independently scum reading WM, it's a weak read based partly on stan1ey's case against me - which felt like a reach he was trying too hard to pad out into something more - and

partly based on the way WM came in and reversed course on the read of me/my post without mentioning the way other people reacted to it.

Please talk about the bolded? I don't understand that in the slightest.

I was talking about stan1ey's 105 vs WhyMafia's 608, but I misremembered and thought they were both engaging with the same posts (primarily, my 80), and I thought WM was praising the post stan1ey voted me for. However, stan1ey's 72 is the more accurate comparison to WM's post. Still feel a little weird that WM was more positive about my post than stan1ey (who thought it was NAI), but I guess changed reads based on replacing in aren't scummy, given it's a new player.

[Quick]

@Flicker, you are here now. Do you have any questions for me?

[Flicker]

I like my vote where it is; I feel like Trinity is a better lynch today than Oka, and they're both better than running up anyone else at this point. I initially switched to Trinity to consolidate wagons, and because she was the person I was town-reading the least of the available wagons (and I'm not even sure I town read her at all now, since the early RVS weirdness has morphed into reads weirdness that doesn't feel as towny).

Definitely gonna be some interesting VCA tomorrow, I think.

P-edit:

@Quick

No, nothing comes to mind. Kinda just ready for the hammer at this point, but I know nancy wants some more engagement (from WM especially IIRC) and to say some IC things, so I can wait.

[Quick]

Do you have a read on me? I am sorry for being a brute this game, I have tried/am trying to not get so worked up.

[IcemanCh]

I still think Nancy is town I just don't like this controlling nature of the town wagons.

I also think it's a big mistake to lynch Trinity. I know I'll regret this if she does flip Scum but, I"m going to call it now. She's town.

Is this the same confidence that made you hop off the 2.8 train last game?

That was me being indecisive. I had him as scum and then second guessed it. Hopped off and was wrong. I'm trying to stick with my reads more unless something comes up to shatter it. I haven't seen anything to change either my scum read of Oka or my town read of trinity.

[Quick]

If we look at pure name recogintion and participation. Would anyone disagree that Eragon, Flicker, and WhyMafia float to the top as possible scum?

FF has been super engaged and consistent.
Trinity has been floating around but, in the mix with everyone else.
Oka has been crazy invovled even if I have a feeling he's scum.
Nancy.... I mean do we need more?
Quick.... well I don't like him for town. I think he's scum but, he's engaged a lot.


So does it seem odd that if I had to award participation awards I wouldn't give them to Eragon, Flicker, and WhyMafia?

They appear long enough to give reads and then gone.


Maybe, I'm nuts.

I don't think you are nuts. Players lurking hurts Town... a lot. but sometimes people have a lot of other stuff going on while playing. It's not always the same on other sites which I am sure you are aware of having played a few 48/24 games. Sometimes I feel like games move at a snail's pace on this site. I've actually tried not to post as much as I usually do, because usually I get SR for that because people can't keep up but I am actually only a mid-activity player on most other sites, site depending.

Is this still more or less where you are with reads? I should probably do a final Reads List before I (or someone else) hammers.

[IcemanCh]

If we look at pure name recogintion and participation. Would anyone disagree that Eragon, Flicker, and WhyMafia float to the top as possible scum?

FF has been super engaged and consistent.
Trinity has been floating around but, in the mix with everyone else.
Oka has been crazy invovled even if I have a feeling he's scum.
Nancy.... I mean do we need more?
Quick.... well I don't like him for town. I think he's scum but, he's engaged a lot.


So does it seem odd that if I had to award participation awards I wouldn't give them to Eragon, Flicker, and WhyMafia?

They appear long enough to give reads and then gone.


Maybe, I'm nuts.

I don't think you are nuts. Players lurking hurts Town... a lot. but sometimes people have a lot of other stuff going on while playing. It's not always the same on other sites which I am sure you are aware of having played a few 48/24 games. Sometimes I feel like games move at a snail's pace on this site. I've actually tried not to post as much as I usually do, because usually I get SR for that because people can't keep up but I am actually only a mid-activity player on most other sites, site depending.

Is this still more or less where you are with reads? I should probably do a final Reads List before I (or someone else) hammers.

If I had to do an order from town to scum I think it would go like this. I don't think they've changed much.

Nancy - Town
Trinity FF - Somewhat town
Eregon Flicker - Null
Why Mafia Quick lean scum
OKta - Scum

[Quick]

Reads:

Town to Scum (PoE based on indivudual play):

Town

nancy - Just Town unless I want to WIFOM myself into oblivion.

Town Lean

Oka - Feeling better and better about Oka, simply because I just am not seeing any Scum motive behind their posts and no one is really defending them (I guess barring me??? :not sure:).
Ice - I just get a lot of Town feels. What I mean by that is I can feel his apathy and I don't think he would be feeling that if he was Scum at this point. Could he be lurking? I suppose? Town until something jumps out at me as a conflicting Narrative.
WM - I think WM has asked some good questions, which, I typically associate good questions with Town play. Overall, seems to be "to the point" and while not necessarily AI, still like him poking different places.

Null

Aragon - He's made some good points. I am not sure how new or not he is to the game, but feeling he might not be making some of the points he has made as Scum. Mostly deferring to see what he does later because I don't think he's done much at all.
Flicker - Hard to get a read here. Not knocking anything here, just hard to get a solid read. Busy life, I get it, but that doesn't make you easier to read.
Trinity - Probably my most controversial read I have atm considering I haven't really had a good lead up to a good read here. That said, I think nancy has made some pretty solid points against Trinity - so has Oka - and I guess I feel like though there have been some things that make me question this as a hard SR, but I can't help feeling some things are just lacking here, which I think most people are agreeing with.

Scum Lean

FF - Don't like his play at all. I feel like he's been extremely manipulative towards me/my slot. People are reading him as Town because he has some good tone, I guess. Not seeing it personally and I highly highly doubt this game ends without one of us dying. That should be relatively telling in what the alignment of the others is, I think. Not really scared of that, pretty confident this flips Scum.

[Flicker]

@Quick

I think you're null-scum. Part of that might just be playstyle difference, partly I might have read too much into your early posts.

If Trinity flips town, I'm worried about the people I might have given too much towncred that could actually be scum, or if that's just paranoia from my first newbie game (where one of the scum team was pretty strongly townread across the board, and only on D3 by throwing out my reads and just looking at associations did I think he could be scum).

P-edit: My reads haven't changed from 1143, other than to move Trinity and maybe WhyMafia to null.

[Quick]

For clarity.

Town: Nancy (Not that Oka's seeds of doubt haven't affected me, but I don't have anything strong to reevaluate this read with, and probably won't until D2.)
Town-lean: Formerfish (same reasons as before), IcemanCh (same reasons as before), Oka (I don't necessarily like who Oka's pushing, but I like the pushes themselves, if that makes sense?)
Town/null: Eragon, TrinityNZ (basically the same reasons as before for both)
Null: N/A
Scum/null: WhyMafia (see next post), Quick (agree with FF's observations/pushes)
Scum-lean: N/A
Scum: N/A

P-edit:

@Eragon

Gun to your head, who would you vote for now?

First off, I don't know if this is an IC question or just an experienced MS player question, but in my first newbie game, after we ran a VT up to L-1 and they claimed, one player said/strongly implied that since there'd already been a claim, we should go ahead and lynch them rather than running up someone else and having them claim. Otherwise, if their claims were true, we'd be helping scum PR hunt. I disagreed with this logic because I think it's most important to lynch scum, and if you really think someone is town you shouldn't vote for them.

@Everyone, but especially experienced MS players

What do you think about the above? Both in general and in relation to Oka in this game?

Sorry missed this the first time around. I most definitely think you were correct. Don't lynch PR's they will sort themselves out. If Mafia doesn't kill them, then they can give us info. That's the long and short of it.

[Quick]

I probably will not be on later tonight because I have to sleep...

[OkaPoka]

basically have 1.5 days left so you should be good

+i think the next direction we have to go with this game is going to be wagon analysis and day 1 anaylsis, we have 56 pages of content (and counting) plus a flip to analyze day 2, we should have a lot of directions to go and a lot of content to work with

[WhyMafia]

Yeah. Flip will do a lot. Sorry for being inactive so close to deadline, I'm having some rl issues -
I'll be able to respond to anything tomorrow

[nancy]

My townread on Flicker is completely gone. Her thoughts about WhyMafia are insane. I don't think it's a remotely believable thought from town that WhyMafia should for some reason have the same reads as stan, that just looks like a super fake way to shade WhyMafia. Her read on Trinity is nonsense. "RVS weirdness that morphed into reads weirdness that doesn't feel as towny" is gibberish.

What about Oka claiming VT makes sense, if he's mafia?

This is the rhetorical technique Trump uses, she's just trying to deconstruct any reason to townread Trinity's claim.

Definitely gonna be some interesting VCA tomorrow, I think.

The use of "interesting" here is scummy because it's a uselessly vague, throwaway comment and it shows she's not really thinking about the game. It also TMI's that she knows Trinity isn't flipping mafia.

And her votes are just so bad. She scumread Quick but voted Trinity, who she townread. And now her townread is very conveniently "gone". That makes no sense whatsoever.

I shouldn't have been suckered into townreading her for her AtE.

Go back to this post:

[...] Am I breaking some protocols I’m not aware of LOL?

@Formerfish

, didn't you say you had an issue with players who were too focused on rules and procedures and stuff? What do you think about this, and Trinity in general?

This is one of the scummiest things in the entire game. She's simultaneously buddying up to FF (which would spew him town) and trying to get him to scumread Trinity at the same time without taking a stance on Trinity herself. It's an extremely dishonest and obscenely slimy approach that just doesn't come from town. She's like a snake whispering in FF's ear that Trinity is mafia.

Vote: Flicker

[OkaPoka]

Is now really a good time to do this?

[Formerfish]

Have we all been drinking the koolaid and nancy is scum here?

Like what are you even doing right now? This is a legit question with under 2 days time til deadline...

[OkaPoka]

I guess it is assuming that you might be the nightkill
@nancy, how much does this flicker read depend on a trinity flip? Or is this an independent scumread.

[nancy]

Her scum flip spews FF, Trinity, Oka and WhyMafia town. I think the team is Flicker/Eragon.

pedit it's an independent scumread. And its never too late to CFD.

[nancy]

Look at all my past games. I nail scum with CFD's like 90% of the time.

[OkaPoka]

uh whats cfd

[IcemanCh]

I'm sorta wanting to agree with Nancy and go with it. What do you all think?

[nancy]

https://www.mafiauniverse.com/wiki/Chinese_Fire_Drill