NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Taly]

Also because

HWS

has has almost 0 pushing this game/dayphase, at least 0 pushing that he's acknowledged compared to

A50/Sky/profii/xyzzy

[brassherald]

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

[Taly]

And because I'm not a fan of the playerlist's posting for the past 10-15 pages.

I can't express how unhelpful it is to invalidate claims by trying to push/scum-case an associative on

MOI/Andrius

right now

(Inferno and Sky to an extent)

I don't know why

TW/Chick

are being discussed as reads/lynches right now, other than trying to understand someone else's thoughts on them.

(HWS/and those suspicious of them)

The main reason for this

xyzzy

push from what I've seen is because he's not given much content, which he's dispelling that notion now that I, and other people are referring to him by the correct pronouns respectively.

(Andrius/anyone voting xyzzy at the moment)

I want people to not keep saying "I want to flip" and proceed to add nothing else.

(Chick/Ausuka to an extent)

I want ANYONE that feels strong on a

Sky

lynch to ACTUALLY tell me why that's preferably over

Profii/A50/xyzzy

.

(MOI/HWS to my knowledge has brought this up.)

I'm bothered when people continue to say my scumreads are assumptions or bad without giving an inclination on why they think that, or why they're saying that.

(A50/Andrius)

This isn't even counting the replacements on both a strong scumread

(Elbirn)

and a strong townread of mine

(Hit)

, alongside

profii

, who is either town content with his mislynch or scum throwing a basket of WIFOM.

I cannot be the only person that dislikes ALL this that they're seeing.

[Taly]

Taly y u vote hws when we're agreeing to consolidate on profii or xyzzy

if I had more posts/replies like this, alongside someone articulating their own thoughts behind something, then I wouldn't be strung up rn.

[Taly]

I'm just going to step back for a 1-2 days, may go VLA.

[Almost50]

I'm trying not to read the thread and get annoyed again.

Are you guys up for conversation?

Not sure if I'm up for it, but I'm down with that!

[Almost50]

I'm not lynching

xyzzy

unless there's this compelling, articulated case, because I don't see it.

VOTE: HeWhoSwims

I want to see something.

Now seriously, why the double standards? If you want a compelling articulated case on xy I'm gonna need the same on HWS. We're never going to agree if we go on like this.

[Almost50]

I'm bothered when people continue to say my scumreads are assumptions or bad without giving an inclination on why they think that, or why they're saying that. (A50/Andrius)

Again, there's a contradiction with your logic there. Let me simplify things for you: FORGET I ever said HWS is town. Forget it. Let's say he's null or I don't have a read there.

Now you want a compelling articulated case on the "subject" of your vote, then you must provide the same for me to vote your way. If you want me to "town case" HWS then you should be obliged to town case xy yourself.

The way you're doing it is "I'm not convinced with your reads, so I want you to sheep mine" without providing anything more than "personal preference".

[Taly]

I'd rather see a

HeWhoSwims

flip over

xyzzy

at the moment.

I really dislike that no major wagon has had resistance this dayphase, and I don't trust that this is all because of scum.

sorry if I missed this in your ISO but why are you scumreading HWS? i believe you thought he was town early d2.

my gut says profii is town maybe? but i don't really know

I don't feel strongly on

HWS

at the moment, and I did townread him D2, but:

He's not making any cases for the 3 people he wants to lynch

Sky/Chick/TW

2164

He's expressing scumreads that are both easy to hop on and want to lynch due to WIFOM.

(TW's self-sorting, Chick feels lynchbaity and I don't see the point of a venge without a short kill-pool, and his scumread on Sky is basically her asking questions and not providing reads, which I both think would apply to him now, and not apply to Sky this dayphase.)

He's posted very little this dayphase and in contribution.

(Only 19 posts, he was more active in D1, which was much less active this dayphase comparatively)

He's someone that was on the

Hit

wagon and one of the last people to jump on it near EoD1.

He's brushed off the

Brass

push on him.

(Where is any response to Brass this dayphase about a vote in his ISO?)

I don't understand how agreeing with the two strongest opinions is scummy??? like I don't really feel like these two positions are in direct opposition, we don't have the threshold of information where finding both of them scummy is a bad thing

It's not scummy per se - just lazy and easy. I used to do this as scum in my first scum games, I feel... And it just adds onto the rest

If this is the one gaining traction then

VOTE: Dramonic

L-4 if the votecount higher up this page is accurate

That claim seems too well thought out to be fake.

If it ain't dram then I want to go back to Gazer...

But there's no wagon there so

VOTE: HitAlt

L-2

These 3 posts were side-by-side in his ISO.

His votes and reasonings aren't committal at the EoD1, as he's voting based on where wagons are and what has the most traction. This could be town and excusable, but it doesn't look great or helpful as he had about 5 other people in his lynchpool 1012, and L-3'ed

Hit

850 without much in depth reasoning for his scumread there.

Also because

HWS

has has almost 0 pushing this game/dayphase, at least 0 pushing that he's acknowledged compared to

A50/Sky/profii/xyzzy

Tell me why this isn't a compelling case. I've been very clear that I want a response on this.

[Taly]

The way you're doing it is "I'm not convinced with your reads, so I want you to sheep mine" without providing anything more than "personal preference".

I'm not asking people to follow me.

I'm asking me to engage with me.

[Taly]

Also, I've towncased

xyzzy

in multiple posts, or at least provided reasons to think he's likely town.

1725 to 1727

Also:

There's a better associative to

Profii-A50

than

Xyzzy-A50

imo

at least, it's very unlikely for

Profii-Xyzzy

team.

I don't see

Xyzzy-Sky

either.

xyzzy

feels least likely scum when evaluating the big picture of my reads.

And I feel like my ISO paints a pretty detailed picture on my read progression.

[the worst]

VOTE: HWS

will get back on profiiwagon if needed to end day (or if good king raskolnikov says to)

[Taly]

Sigh...
I'm clogging up the thread, I've said my piece right now, finals for my classes are in a few days, and I haven't been in the mindset to think about Mafia right now, or even in the mood to go on the Internet.

@Mod, VLA until Friday July 27th

I'm taking a breather. I'll likely post between now and Friday but it won't be significant or a lot.

[Inferno390]

I'm bothered when people continue to say my scumreads are assumptions or bad without giving an inclination on why they think that, or why they're saying that. (A50/Andrius)

Again, there's a contradiction with your logic there. Let me simplify things for you: FORGET I ever said HWS is town. Forget it. Let's say he's null or I don't have a read there.

Now you want a compelling articulated case on the "subject" of your vote, then you must provide the same for me to vote your way. If you want me to "town case" HWS then you should be obliged to town case xy yourself.

The way you're doing it is "I'm not convinced with your reads, so I want you to sheep mine" without providing anything more than "personal preference".

This is a misrep and it seriously bothers me.
Taly has provided thoughts and reads on every single slot D2 by this point.
The difference between what you’re asking and what Taly is doing is that it’s not all neatly organized and tied with a bow. Which is unfair at the least.
There is reads and reasons behind Taly’s posts. You just to have to, you know, actually read his posts and dig though them instead of skimmming over them.
This is why I try to take the time to read wall posts, because they can actually contain a lot of information that can mold a read, and in some cases, can be alignment indicative based on content.
To accuse Taly of telling people to blindly sheep his reads because he doesn’t like anyone else’s is a completely false statement.

Now.
While I still don’t like the MoI/Andrius associations with dram, I am willing to back down off the point. 1) I know that several people disagree with me on that point, 2) I always assume that I can be wrong, and 3) It’s obvious that neither of these two slots are going to get lynched anyways. So I’ll take that L.

HOWEVER
I am going to finish my case on MoI and post it. That way 1) my train of thought on this slot is recorded in thread, and 2) I get it out there for discussion. Because I’d rather discuss it and have someone bring up some good Town points to get me to change my mind than be useless to town because I’m soft tunneling two players in the game that no one ageees in with me.

Once I finish that, I’m going to ISO (Elbirn/A50, Profii) And See what comes up.

Cool beans.

[brassherald]

And I am aware I could probably read the OP, but, let's be honest, I won't.

@Andrius: This is why I'm not explaining my stances. Things like these don't make sense to most of you, but this hits me as Town!brass talking.

Am I allowed to point out that scum!me would have at least pretended to read the OP?

[MagnaofIllusion]

So … so let’s get into this …

Also – everyone look closely at 2261 with me. Note that Sky’s logic regarding HitAlt / Gamma shows not the least bit of concern. She’s posting from the standpoint of someone who knows that Gamma’s slot isn’t scum. Note also that despite Ausuka supposedly being in her pool the only person of Sky thinks can possibly be scum in Gamma / myself / Ausuka / Andy is me. Makes no sense that if she thinks I’m scum she doesn’t consider Andy possible scum. I think this strengthens that

1. Gamma is more likely Town than scum.
2. Sky flipping scum means Ausuka is a partner she is hedging on.

Can we get more votes there please? Frankly I think the day is just dragging on because … well … with the game state and potential PoE wrecking ball Town maybe is getting complacent. If I can’t get any movement on Sky in the next 24 hours I’ll look at the available wagons and vote who I think is most likely scum from them. Personally of Profi / Xyzzy I’m leaning voting Xyzzy due to how hard Sky is pushing Profi and defending Xyzzy.

Taly

= Why are you associating effort with Town again (as seen regarding Sky in 2372)? Scum have to be putting in the effort to pretend to be Town … especially if they are in the Group of Death.

--

Why is Andy conf!Town?? And .. that's the spirit. I was gazing with surprise you TR'd the slot I replaced into..

I'm Town, mate.. but I don't expect you -in particular- to just take my word for it, and I very much understand.

Andy’s confirmed Town because he confirmed that he received fruit from me last Night. I’m a Loyal Fruit Vendor. This has already been covered to death so … yeah …

And why should I trust you at your word? Last game where I suspected you there was an AtE barrage from scum you about how I always suspect you and am always wrong. Except I wasn’t. So I expect scum you would certainly change tactics at this point. Frankly given your “Oh, I’m baiting the NK” narrative and lack of being forward with your reads if you were not Elbirn’s replacement I’d be voting you this very post.

I ain't gonna lynch the duck this game.

This also doesn’t make me think you are Town.

--

I really can't agree with Andrius' "If you shoot someone unacceptable we'll lynch you" in 2343. while it's generally a good idea for a vigilante to give a shit about what the town wants, it seems like being a populist and just shooting the most scumread player every night is a good way for an SK to skate by.

Of all the things Xyzzy’s recently dropped this is the one that I think is the most troubling. It shows no acknowledgement of the game-state and the fact that forcing a suspected Serial Killer to shoot into the ever shrinking pool of PoE suspects is very powerful for Town. I don’t see this as a Town perspective.

Taly

– Do you disagree?

[HeWhoSwims]

Taly I'm on holiday... I feel like I've made most of my stances clear

I doubt there's scum in moi/Andy right now and I doubt they'd be biased
I'm suspicious of duck being sk
Sky... I should reread admittedly
I do not scumread in A50/Profii

[HeWhoSwims]

Sky is better now at a glance but like it seems sometimes it's more IIoA than reads and forming reads. But hey I can be wrong. Also why is chick cleared again?

[the worst]

Andy cleared her

[HeWhoSwims]

Didnt he say something vague instead of I'm this role and this is why chick is clear ? I only read something like "yeah chick is clear" and no more but I may have missed it

[the worst]

Correct but he's also soft confirmed town and apparently doesn't fuck around w this stuff

[Skygazer]

@MoI HitAlt basically put all of his cards on the table day two and was the first to do so, and those cards seem to line up with his D1 play. I really think Hit playing the way he did day one would absolutely tank his chances of surviving as scum the more I think about it. It could be some wild gambit, but on D1 in a large game? If he was scum he'd be bound to know that that kind of softclaiming gambit would get him sorted sooner rather than later. As for Andrius, he has been a huge town read of mine since day one and he's semi-clear from your fruit. If you were to flip scum, I highly doubt you'd risk the gambit of trying to clear your scum partner - I think it's much more likely that scum-MoI would want to spread wifom over a strong town player. So right now that narrows it down to yourself and Ausuka (going on the assumption that one of the investigatives is scum), and I've stated why I think Ausuka's claim doesn't come from scum already. I think your argument about my D2 play getting suspiciously better is pretty bad; there's more for me to go off of after flips and I've been playing a lot more mafia lately so I feel more comfortable in my reads and logic at the moment.

[Skygazer]

It feels like a lot of the arguments regarding xyzzy

[Skygazer]

Whoops hit submit early

It feels like a lot of the arguments regarding xyzzy all come back to lurking and I really don't feel like lynching a lurker would be the best move when we have a much scummier player in profii.

[Ausuka]

UNVOTE:

Not a huge fan of the suspect pool rn actually because it feels like we're missing something.

Sky what do you think of profii's recent posts?