Newbie 1881 - Game Over

[Quick]

@nancy, can you please explain why you went after Flicker at EoD?

[nancy]

Yeah same Ice, I'm less confident on my town reads

Why are you less confident in your town reads?

I don't like Nancy near the end of D1. She seemed kinda strange about the wagons, and it rubbed me the wrong way. I don't like her shifting of wagons, and wishy-washiness, so close to deadline. I feel like Oka's reasoning is relatively weak, and made to explain his NK on Flicker to get Eragon dead.

I want to see what Eragon is like today though.

Yeah, I was trying to save Trinity, my mafia partner. You got me.

Why. On earth. Are you suspicious of Oka. For sharing your scumread. Do you understand that the people who think the same things as you are generally more likely to be town?

short answer - your response to nancy when she first voted you never comes from town lmao

I'll have a long answer later

That's what I thought too. Except I just played in a game off-site where someone did exactly the same thing as Oka and they were town.

[nancy]

Oh, Oka, you should actually go over about your Quick read properly today. Because I'm pretty sure we had the same read and I'm pretty sure that it's not a good read, so... might want to rethink that one a little bit.

[OkaPoka]

i burned all my reads after trinity flip and then i tossed the ashes after flicker nk

imma go reevaluate everyone including quick, starting from scratch

[OkaPoka]

i really dont get why scum would help me push trinity and not just lynch me instead

[OkaPoka]

only explanation is that the original trinity counterwagon was full town, but that is really presumptive

[OkaPoka]

Votecount 1.19

OkaPoka (3) -

IcemanCh, WhyMafia, Formerfish

Formerfish (1) -

Quick

TrinityNZ (1) -

OkaPoka

WhyMafia (1) -

Flicker

Not Voting (3) -

Eragon, TrinityNZ, nancy

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2018-07-23 11:49:57).

Prodding Eragon.

Votecount 1.20

OkaPoka (3) -

IcemanCh, WhyMafia, Formerfish

TrinityNZ (2) -

OkaPoka, Flicker

Formerfish (1) -

Quick

Not Voting (3) -

Eragon, TrinityNZ, nancy

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2018-07-23 11:49:57).

Prodding Formerfish.

This is a friendly reminder that although mafia can be a stressful game that with tough personal interactions, the expectation is that players refrain from excessively abusive behavior. I've reviewed the posts since my most recent votecount. While I don't think any posts have crossed that line, I want to remind everyone that this is a game to be played for enjoyment, and request that everyone make a conscious effort to keep the game civil and respectful.

Votecount 1.21

OkaPoka (4) -

IcemanCh, WhyMafia, TrinityNZ, nancy

TrinityNZ (3) -

OkaPoka, Flicker, Eragon

Formerfish (1) -

Quick

Quick (1) -

Formerfish

Not Voting (0) -

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2018-07-23 11:49:57).

Votecount 1.22

OkaPoka (4) -

IcemanCh, WhyMafia, TrinityNZ, nancy

TrinityNZ (4) -

OkaPoka, Flicker, Eragon, Formerfish

Formerfish (1) -

Quick

Not Voting (0) -

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 1 is in (expired on 2018-07-23 11:49:57).

Prodding IcemanCh.

looking at least at this progression
ill call the last vc the core of the lynch


so the core would be <okapoka, flicker, eragon,ff>
im town
flicker is town

but why would scum!eragon and scum!ff not just string me up?

explanation for scum!ff would be i guess he wants to pocket me, but more obvious and easier explanation is that he is town. the problem is im expecting some "town tells" of sample size 1 from FF that im not getting. Formerfish had a scumread on me and was even pushing me, why not just continue pushing me? He was one of the first to push me.

if there has to be scum on the trinity wagon it would be eragon, but again why didn't he just intent to hammer me or vote me instead as scum? im confused

[OkaPoka]

Votecount 1.23

TrinityNZ (5) -

OkaPoka, Flicker, Eragon, Formerfish, IcemanCh

OkaPoka (2) -

WhyMafia, TrinityNZ

Formerfish (1) -

Quick

Flicker (1) -

nancy

Not Voting (0) -

With 9 players alive it takes 5 votes to lynch.

A lynch has been achieved.

ofc with hammer maybe iceman is scum?

but the problem with that is it don't really know why iceman would bother with the hammer as scum, he knows quick is going to hammer and if quick doesn't then iceman doesn't get any blame and we have a route for a lynch today.

[OkaPoka]

PoE says the scum is in <Eragon,WhyMafia,nancy,Quick>

the others just have too much going for them that makes scum!them not make sense, it would be more optimal imo for them to do other actions as scum.

[OkaPoka]

the big question mark to me is flicker nk and why nancy went after her EoD.

im going to need some more substantial content/interaction from quick to give a decent ish evaluation rn.

[OkaPoka]

but then again Formerfish can still be playing long con

he isn't acting like he was acting with my previous game, in fact its quite different in content/tone/method/activity

[OkaPoka]

and why would scum!nancy even say the things she is saying

why would see even try to defend my play as possible town if she were scum

and her eod comments make no sense from scum other than wifom town cred i guess

nothing makes sense

vote eragon

[Micc]

Votecount 2.01

OkaPoka (2) -

WhyMafia, IcemanCh

Eragon (1) -

OkaPoka

Not Voting (4) -

Eragon, Quick, Formerfish, nancy

With 7 players alive it takes 4 votes to lynch.

The deadline for Day 2 is in (expired on 2018-07-31 17:20:00).

[nancy]

but why would scum!eragon and scum!ff not just string me up?

explanation for scum!ff would be i guess he wants to pocket me, but more obvious and easier explanation is that he is town. the problem is im expecting some "town tells" of sample size 1 from FF that im not getting. Formerfish had a scumread on me and was even pushing me, why not just continue pushing me? He was one of the first to push me.

if there has to be scum on the trinity wagon it would be eragon, but again why didn't he just intent to hammer me or vote me instead as scum? im confused

Is pretty much where I'm at as well, yeah.

[OkaPoka]

@nancy, what were you hoping to gain from your last second Flicker push and what is your reaction to flicker being nk'd?

[Formerfish]

but then again Formerfish can still be playing long con

he isn't acting like he was acting with my previous game, in fact its quite different in content/tone/method/activity

Yeah. I feel like I've explained this. I don't think you are going to see me the same way game to game right now. I think you could see things in me and things I do, but I am going to edit pieces out of my play and try others. Each of my games so far has shown a progression of sorts. There is no longer con. Just trying to parse the situation we are in now and how we got to be here.

[Eragon]

wtf was that nightkill

Oka stop acting like your confirmed town

what the hell is your progression on Nancy?

why did you talk about reasons for FF to not be scum on the wagon but not me?

and I didnt hammer/vote you because im not scum, and trinity was a stronger SR

where im at rn is. POE-{Iceman, Oka, quick, FF, WhyMafia}
and leaning
{oka, quick, FF}

[Eragon]

VOTE: Quick

explained yesterday

[OkaPoka]

wtf was that nightkill

Oka stop acting like your confirmed town

what the hell is your progression on Nancy?

why did you talk about reasons for FF to not be scum on the wagon but not me?

and I didnt hammer/vote you because im not scum, and trinity was a stronger SR

where im at rn is. POE-{Iceman, Oka, quick, FF, WhyMafia}
and leaning
{oka, quick, FF}

i can act like im confirmed town when im speaking my inner rambles, those posts were me thinking at loud, if you dont want me to say what im thinking and do edits i guess i can be more reserved but noone else was talking so i needed to breathe life into the game

things aren't making sense with nancy!scum so thats my progression

because formerfish has more reasons for me to doubt his scum potential and i think finding is alignment is more important than yours soz

[Eragon]

Spoiler:

Soo....... I feel like OKa is a bad or scum. Not sure which.

I also think Trinity is town. She's new and clunky but, I've played a few games with her and nothing seems scummy so far. I've seen her play scum and.... well you'd know.

I really want to vote quick and get quick lynched. To me only scum would come in and throw up their hands and say I'm not reading anything. Here's a vote count. Here's my reads. Don't worry those cause my reads are garbage because I didn't actually read anything. If town came in and refused to read the game they wouldn't then turn around and give reads.

I also think Oka is pushing mis-lynches. Trying to snag the easiest ones. Weird that he's not jumping on Quick as that seems the easiest to me at the moment.

SRing me because I am not caught up is a horrible reason to SR someone. Like, seriously?

I think I'm a bit lost at the moment. I've lost my town read on Nancy..... Please Nancy come back to town. I wanna believe. She seems to have just faded a bit and is just poking holes in everything. Not necessarily a bad thing but, doesn't seem like the way things started at first.

Trinity, Go take a look at some of FFs other games. His play this game seems exactly like his town play. I'll go looking for one of his scum games and compare though because I've only played with town!FF.

Quick, I'm not sure what to ask you..... Have your reads changed? Not sure if the answer is worth it.

Oka, I don't mean to restate this but, you really seem to be looking for the easiest lynches instead of looking for scum. I don't like it. Also, what do you think about quick?

FF, do you think that Oka is a better lynch then Quick and why?

I am still developing reads. I probably will not get fully caught up and you saying that is Scummy is odd to me.

I agree with not-catching up being NAI, and that Iceman way over-reacted, but it kinda seemed like new-town perspective.
I’d say the whole interaction is likely NAI

I'm not a newbie....

never said you were, meant Iceman's interaction.

SRing me because I am not caught up is a horrible reason to SR someone. Like, seriously?

Lets not get things twisted here. No one is scum reading you because you arent "caught up." People are scum reading you because you said that you were not going to catch up.

That's the same fucking thing, brah.

I'll do ISOs but I'm not going to read 400 posts when probably at least half of them are RVS anyways. I'm engaged now. I don't see people bringing up stuff from 5 pages ago anyway so it's not like I am missing a whole lot.

I still need to look at Stan1ey's progression.

I posted this as an overall of FF/Quick’s spat and shit
I am not gonna read it because its irritating, but I can easily say its never S v S, but T v S and T v T are possibilites.
I think T v S is the strongest possbility, but its not 100% for me

Oh, I agree it's not TvT. Clearly, it's TvS.

FF, you said ISOs are NAI. Is catching up AI?

Good point.

No one else said anything about this...

your point?

Vote: Quick

I don't believe that your read on Iceman is real.

OK.

You're saying that you disagree with him or he is bad therefore he is mafia, which is nonsense.

No, I am not saying any of that. Reread my case on Ice. I said he's Scum for pushing something as Scummy that is NAI.

Your entire case on him feels like shade and I don't like it one bit. Please catch up and provide thoughts on the game.

Have you not seen someone make a case on someone before or what? What about my case on him is Shade as opposed to an actual read? Shade to me is where you try and make someone look like Scum without voting them in hopes of changing someone in the game's mind on them or just weakening people's read on them as Town.

I'm not doing that considering I am actually voting him for his shit reasons for voting me.

Why the hell should I do what you say? Frankly, I don't give a shit if you don't think my read on Ice is "real" I'm voting a SR get over it.

You've talked about how "tone reads mean nothing" well you saying my read on Ice isn't real is basically the same fucking thing.

Unless you can actually point to examples about how my read on him is "fake" I don't want to hear it.

I feel like you are just SRing me because I made an abrupt change of vote on someone. That's not Scummy - especially when I am still developing reads.

I don't really feel like getting blackmailed by votes just because I haven't fully caught up. Clearly, you're one of those people who isn't experienced enough to know that some people just play from where they replace in. Yeah, I know I am not doing myself any favors by coming across as so abrasive,

but I don't really care at this point since the only legitimate (and I use the term loosely) reason why anyone has said I am Scummy is because I haven't fully caught up yet.

I can’t place my finger on it but this vote pings me

Try. Why does it ping you?

*side not* I meant post, not vote
{bolded points in post}
basically an OMGUS
A bit of shade

from a bit of experience, when people say "there isnt a legitimate reason to SR me" I more often find that flips scum than town

OK, I'm caught up, AMA

/S

Seriously though I really hate being blackmailed to catch up in a game. Shit is just not right.

In other news, not sold on FF being Town. He got early TRs from people and that seems to have stuck for not very good reasons I don't think. FF is a good player, not ready to clear them just based on...

Whatever people were TRing him for, because from what I saw, didn't see a whole lot of Town tells and def felt like

I was strongly disagreeing with some of the stuff he's said so far.

Disagreeing /=/ scum
And thinking anyone that disagrees with you is scum, is scummy

That wasn't my poit at all.

then whats that

I am having second thoughts on Ice. Reason I was SRing him before is because a lot of his thought process in terms of reads is just plain wrong, but maybe he is actually just a newb and doesn't know any better.

Ex. Him saying nancy poking holes in everything is Scummy... That's actually pretty damn Townie IMO. His Thought process is overly black and white which is not something I would expect from someone playing in games with 20 PRs. I can explain this, but don't feel like it. I have a lot of experience all over the web so just trust me on this. Still, he has this kind of ignorance that I can't help comes from Town.

I think Quick was trying to find a way to back out of the ice SR, because calling someone towny because “ignorance that comes from town” is one of the weakest things I can see.

Quick Had been strongly SR’ing Ice, and could be seen as a hard OMGUS and trying to Lynch a newbie, in which case would throw considerable suspicion on Quick if Ice flipped town, so Quick backed off the read a bit with an easy read.

Uhh... So I can't reevaluate people? What's your read on Ice and what's my Scum motivation for changing the read?

I guess I did jump the gun there a bit, I just overall didnt like the feel of the progression off the SR.

My read on Ice is noob town and your scum motivation for changing the read is so that you dont get pushed if he flips town

I don't think Oka is a good choice for lynching this phase. I'd rather PRs deal with him.

>translation
Either: Oka is town and his Lynch will spew scum from pushes and stuff

Or: Oka is my scum buddy and we need time to kill and/or find the PR’s before my buddy is lynched.

I say this because only mafia and the PR’s have some indication of what the true role-list is, and its possible for their to be either,
Weak PR’s or
Only 1 town PR or
Im not sure on this but maybe non-invest PR
Meaning oka would be safer than being lynched D1

I don't see how being aware there are PRs in the game is AI.. I made an unconventionaly stance, sure, but why is that Scummy?

I dont like it b/c mafia probably has a pretty good idea of what the role list is, so they know if they are pretty much safe from being caught by a PR.
in that case, you would say "Let pr's deal with him" to make sure that he will live for another few days, while you can possibly kill the PRs

Reads

Town

nanacy, Trinity

Town Lean

Ice, Oka

Null

Flicker, WhyMafia, Eragon

Scum Lean

FF

I guess I can't really justify giving a Town Lean to WhyMafia. Flicker fits the same category, so out of my Nulls, Eragon is probably the Scummiest.

Fair

Not sure what you are saying "Fair" to.

just a passing thought. put your readlist here to mark it down, and commented "fair" because the last sentence.
Cant justify, flicker category, Eragon scummiest. etc...

DAMMIT YOU STOLE MY PAGE TOP
that's definitely evidence that you are scum *points finger*

Reusing the same joke is kinda Scummy.

Discuss.

No

It kinda is tho...

it kinda is a joke tho...

so it kinda is NAI

Because if you are scum, we lynch me today, you can nk one of those two and worst case scenario the other person is scum, nobody here is going to have the guts to oppose you and your bloc.

I didn't realize I was on the Town block…

This post pinged me a bit, seems like scum surprised that they are being TR’d by someone

What happened to the SvS theory between me and Oka?

2 things.
1. what made you bring this up about this post?
2. at best its a theory. Theory's aren't fact and I would be stupid to rely on a single theory that I think solves the game

Trinity is creeping up on me as being Scummy now. It seems whenever Trinity is asked something, they completely disappear. Very suspect.

@nancy, what do you mean when you say I am not doing anything? I feel like I have been pushing my SRs just fine, offering my reasoning on why I TR the people I do. What do you want from me?

Slight SR for someone’s activity, yuck.

It's not about how much activity, it's about when.

so angleshooting? Also yuck

About the wagon stuff people were mentioning earlier...

If a wagon on one player continually dies, it can be a sign that they're mafia because their partners may be pushing against the lynch, and because mafia are more likely to support town lynches, making it easier for them to go through. This is why you should look for mafia on the wagon of a mafia lynch if the lynch seems to go through too easily.

If the thread dies when there is a consensus lynch, it can often mean that the lynch is a miss because if it weren't a miss then mafia would be actively trying to save their partner. This isn't always the case, because mafia may be bussing, mafia may simply not know what to do, mafia may be inactive, or other more contextual things. It's also less of a thing when there are only 2 mafia.

People were talking about no one defending Oka, but that's not really how you should look at it. Mafia defend town lynches too. And they don't always defend their partners. If no one is defending OkaPoka, then you have to look at who is pushing on him, who is simply abstaining, and why. Are any of the people pushing him bussing? Are any of the people abstaining acting like they know he's a mislynch? Are any of the people off wagon doing anything to try to dismantle the wagon?

That's kind of what I've been looking at and I think the way FF jumped on deserves a look in the world where Oka is town because it was a kind of slimy thing where he built up to it by arguing with Oka then, when he had the fuel, he pounced. There wasn't a natural progression there from his previous read on Oka, I don't think. I think the way that Quick has been idly sitting in thread and doing things like throwing shade on Trinity makes sense in a world where Oka/Trinity is v/v and he wants to capitalize on Oka's townflip by pushing a Trinity lynch. I think Iceman's treatment of the wagon is just super town all around, and I think WhyMafia's treatment of the wagon has been pretty good too.

You didn't say anything about Aragorn, why not?

GRRRR… you got my name wrong, you must be scum(joke)

But seriously, why only me out of anyone else that wasn’t mentioned

Because you were the only one I thought of who was so... outside of combat???

ok

overall conclusion: Slight scum
i dont like the 180 backing off of some people
Wanting to engage with me yet not asking me questions is ???
as i read it, slight buddying of Oka,
all the shit with FF that i never read
OMGUS'ing because of being SR for not-catching up(while i agree with the sentiment, a strong OMGUS, especially on a noob, is wolfy, and i think you realized this and is why you backed off.)
and a few other individual pingy posts

You gave 1 example of me making a 180 (I think).

does it matter how many? Do I need to find 2 + wolfy 180's before you'll admit to being scum?

You are never around. I can't help that and neither can you. I am engaging with you now.

ok, but you could ask question while im gone and I would answer

How does the buddying fit in with the SvS read between us?

buddying = S v S no?

I don't understand how it makes sense that an OMGUS is Scummy only against a newbie?

its not Scummy ONLY against a newbie.

Have you never SR a person who made a bad push on you before?

No.

[Eragon]

wtf was that nightkill

Oka stop acting like your confirmed town

what the hell is your progression on Nancy?

why did you talk about reasons for FF to not be scum on the wagon but not me?

and I didnt hammer/vote you because im not scum, and trinity was a stronger SR

where im at rn is. POE-{Iceman, Oka, quick, FF, WhyMafia}
and leaning
{oka, quick, FF}

i can act like im confirmed town when im speaking my inner rambles, those posts were me thinking at loud, if you dont want me to say what im thinking and do edits i guess i can be more reserved but noone else was talking so i needed to breathe life into the game

things aren't making sense with nancy!scum so thats my progression

because formerfish has more reasons for me to doubt his scum potential and i think finding is alignment is more important than yours soz

ok

suppose

Finding one alignment is rarely more important than finding all alignments.
and the fact that you dont want to find the alignment of the person your pushing(me) is wolfy, as if you dont care if I flip town or scum

[OkaPoka]

i do care

but when im rambling i ramble about things that make sense

[OkaPoka]

don't make sense*

We can have a focused discussion about what does tho

[Eragon]

If you think Trinity is a mislynch, then don't hammer her, Iceman. Jeez. What the heckie.

That is silly. She is town but, getting her flip will help reveal scum.

Odd that quick hasn't hammered like he said he would and he's letting me do it.......

VOTE: trinity

I really hated this post.

seems like TMI on the "she is town" part
If you "know" they are town then why the fuck would you Lynch them
to reveal scum? and yet you haven't said anything about what that Lynch revealed?
and throwing that shade on Quick just sets up a nice little push for you doesn't it?

[OkaPoka]

TrinityNZ (4) - OkaPoka, Flicker, nancy
OkaPoka (3) - IcemanCh, WhyMafia, TrinityNZ
Formerfish (1) - Quick
Quick (1) - Formerfish

Not Voting (1) - , Eragon

i think this was the scenario right before Eragon voted. So honestly it doesn't really matter for Eragon because at this point he could just choose whoever he wants to lynch to lynch. it would be the same amount of easiness to mislynch either of us so it i could see scum!eragon vote me.

right before hand FF unvotes me, removing me from L1 so from a certain perspective it could be interpreted as my wagon losing steam while trinity wagon is still growing thus by sensing wagon stocks, trinity would be an easier lynch to pull off for scum. meanwhile FF derails a hot wagon to pursue other ventures. if FF is indeed scum, he knows I'm town, and i dont see FF scum derailing a hot wagon.