NY214: Project Pinecone (Game over! Town wins!)

[Pine]

Nursing their beer (Not voting) - HeWhoSwims

oof
sorry flashwagon pals

VOTE: HWS

Moderator error, actually. HWS is on Gamma Emerald.

Never mind, see below.

[Taly]

Did I say vanilla town or just VT?

VOTE: xyzzy

So, not only have you:

1)

Pushed an understated associative case against

Me/Sky

without engaging with my case on

A50

in depth, AFTER you L-1'd him.

{Most of your first-half D2 ISO}

2)

Kept your vote on

Flub

most of D1 and alternated from him to the

Hit/Xyzzy

wagon despite repeatedly saying you want to vote

Dram

but scumread the people on his wagon.

{Read my ISO where I said xyzzy/profii are UNLIKELY to be scum together}

3)

Avoided a good bit of my questions and thoughts in my walls toward you in favor of saying deflective statements like

"Don't tell me how to play"

when I'm trying to understand your POV. 2406

4)

Proceed to OFFER yourself to be lynched OR use up a Town-Vig's shot if it meant sealing the fate of another person, who you DEFENDED as a townread in your case against me.

{A50}

2477

5)

You L-1'd

xyzzy

the MOMENT you got traction on your wagon, despite you saying you were going to reevaluate

HWS

. 2541

VOTE: profii

I'm done postponing my vote here. I can no longer rationalize how this is town.

I no longer feel good about the

xyzzy

lynch with several people's votes there.

I can still be swayed back onto

HWS

because I'd love to see his flip alongside

profii

.

I still want

MOI

to sell me on

Sky

being the best option today, he and I are the only people that have actually entertained

Sky

-scum in depth this dayphase despite her off-putting D1 performance and vote history... so I'm worried there.

[Taly]

Nursing their beer (Not voting) - HeWhoSwims

oof
sorry flashwagon pals

VOTE: HWS

Moderator error, actually. HWS is on Gamma Emerald.

Where's

HWS

vote on

GE

? I didn't see it

[Inferno390]

Willing to sheep the flashwagon. Moving my vote.
VOTE: Profii
His is also significantly worse play from profiicthat his town game, so

[Pine]

Nursing their beer (Not voting) - HeWhoSwims

oof
sorry flashwagon pals

VOTE: HWS

Moderator error, actually. HWS is on Gamma Emerald.

Where's

HWS

vote on

GE

? I didn't see it

But there's no wagon there so

VOTE: HitAlt

L-2

When someone replaces out, I move them to the "Not Voting" category. Most likely, I moved HWS accidentally. Previous VCs have been corrected.

Oh hmm. Just kidding. That was from D1. The only mod error was in correcting one that didn't exist. HWS is indeed not voting. Carry on.

[Taly]

Missed this post.

I really can't agree with Andrius' "If you shoot someone unacceptable we'll lynch you" in 2343. while it's generally a good idea for a vigilante to give a shit about what the town wants, it seems like being a populist and just shooting the most scumread player every night is a good way for an SK to skate by.

Of all the things Xyzzy’s recently dropped this is the one that I think is the most troubling. It shows no acknowledgement of the game-state and the fact that forcing a suspected Serial Killer to shoot into the ever shrinking pool of PoE suspects is very powerful for Town. I don’t see this as a Town perspective.

Taly

– Do you disagree?

Yeah, I quoted

Andrius'

post myself because I agreed with it.

I can see both arguments here. It could be a scum agenda to enforce someone to be NKed if the Town is wrong about their suspects, but I agree that shooting in the PoE pool is a valuable tool for the Town, especially right now.

I also can see how

TW

not revealing his reads and shot possibilities as trying to be more effective as an outed killing role as BOTH town or SK.

So I don't like

xyzzy's

commentary here, but it doesn't strongly ping me as scum.

~

From your posts, I assume you have a light associative to

Sky-Xyzzy

? Or at least scumread them strongly on an independent level?

I made an assessment of

xyzzy-profii

unlikely to be scum together. 2376

Can you give me your read on

profii

? Do you see any associative with

profii-Sky

or

profii-xyzzy

that I don't see IF you scumread

profii

still?

[Inferno390]

Guys
Six hours
Let’s lynch please

[Taly]

Deadline in 3 days, 6 hours, 14 minutes

Deadline was extended by 3 days.

[Inferno390]

Oh
Must have missed that
Nvm then

[Chickadee]

I don't like that HWS is not voting....but I also don't want to wager time on a new flash wagon. At the very least, I don't want to start one, because I'd much rather see profii flip. But if it's where the group goes, I will consolidate.

[HeWhoSwims]

Look through my games... I'm just someone who doesn't move votes a lot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ regardless of alignment. Plus I'm not a fan of all of the proposed lynches - I have made it clear who I am interested in at this point and voting there by myself isn't going to help me at all.

[Taly]

Look through my games... I'm just someone who doesn't move votes a lot ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ regardless of alignment. Plus I'm not a fan of all of the proposed lynches - I have made it clear who I am interested in at this point and voting there by myself isn't going to help me at all.

If it's so clear that you want a certain persons lynch, then why don't you vote and case for that?

This is the central issue I've had with the playerlist - generally - this dayphase.

A lot of people are saying they WANT a wagon/lynch, and that they're confident on one person, but then maybe two people challenges current lynches/wagons and votes to consolidate.

I just think it's so easy for scum to shadow towny players here.

[HeWhoSwims]

Because I've been restricted to my phone in part. And because we all don't want to lynch Chick or Sky.

[HeWhoSwims]

I'm more inclined to lynch profii than xyzzy.

What happened to an A50 lynch?

Inferno, your magna vote is opportunistic as all hell.

While these seem like the last posts of her to contain reads stuff. Plus a lot of one liner stuff.

[Taly]

MOI

has expressed lynching

Sky

I'm fine with taking these last few days to evaluate her in depth.

And

Andrius

is the main person stating that

Chick

is town - and he has hinted to an invest role - do you think he's being truthful and/or is town?

Better question; are you wanting to lynch

Chick

off the pretense of milking a venge, or because you think she's actually scum? Or both?

[HeWhoSwims]

I mean tw claimed vig and I'm still kinda suspicious there. It'd be more helpful if Andy made it more clear (or I may have missed this) what role it is - like if he's a straight up cop I'd turn around on chick but if he's a neapolitain then how does that clear Chick at all? I do townread him atm

I'm scumreading chick because I find her play scummy not because of her role, or because I want a venge shot.

[Taly]

1) Hit

softed an investigative role where he found out that

TW

made a kill N1.

TW

claimed he shot

Dram

, there's been no counter to this. So it's mechanically impossible that

TW

is groupscum with this information being valid, and that he's confirmed to be a killing role that's not mafia.

2) Chick

is not going to last to lylo. I can't see that happening. She's either Town-Venge with high NK equity, or she's going to be lynched prior to lylo because a Venge in lylo, regardless of alignment, is town gamethrowing tbh - very bad odds for town numerically, and that's not speaking logistically.

I don't like

Chick's

play a whole lot and I do understand the suspicion there, but claiming Venge, especially D2, is extremely unsurvivalistic imo

[Taly]

To my knowledge,

Andrius

hasn't, and will not claim his role yet.

[HeWhoSwims]

That's what Eddie Cane wanted to do last time, throw lylo as scumvenge. And I guess you are right about that - but this scumread on her is just nagging at me.

I'm not worried about TW scum but TW killer. Although I guess he'd be better off killing lynchbaity townies than actual scum? Well he wouldn't know who's what anyway.

[Taly]

TW

has been death-marked too, honestly.

He, and the Mafia team, do not want each other to survive. So the Mafia wouldn't want him to last long, and

TW

- despite alignment - would rather survive to kill as many Mafia as possible.

TW

is either town that wants to work with us, or an SK that is forced to work with us.

If

TW

makes a shit shot, then he's a viable lynch.

If

TW

doesn't work to gamesolve much at all, then he's a viable lynch.

But why not lynch

TW

now?

1)

He'll lower the scum/lynch pool, which is invaluable in a multiple-PR large game.

2)

We're not doing Mafia a favor by offing someone that could and would dwindle their remaining numbers.

3)

There is an argument to say he's town, and there's an argument to say that suspecting him as an SK continually hurts town because that could paint him as a good mislynch for scum later.

So right now, I've decided to treat

TW

like a Town-Vig, because this helps town the most otherwise.

[Inferno390]

Gonna add to this discussion on TW:
At this point it doesn’t matter if he’s a vig or an SK, because until all the scum are dead, he’s mechanically a vig anyways.
Because third party roles cannot win until EVERYONE else is dead.
And if he just shoots town, when all the town is dead scum can just shoot him and he loses.
So not only is it in his interest to be shooting scum anyways, it is quite literally AGAINST HIS WINCON to do anything else.

Also, TW is probably the only person that I would endorse a “all will be revealed in time” stance.
Because by mechanics, scum all has to die first.
Then, quite literally by gamestate, we will know whether or not Duck is an SK.
Because the game will continue on.
At which point, we can just easily lynch him anyways.

So the only factor that could be a problem is some weird lylo shit, but that’s way down the line at this point.
So don’t worry about it, because the speculation literally does not matter.

[profii]

Did I say vanilla town or just VT?

VOTE: xyzzy

So, not only have you:

1)

Pushed an understated associative case against

Me/Sky

without engaging with my case on

A50

in depth, AFTER you L-1'd him.

{Most of your first-half D2 ISO}

2)

Kept your vote on

Flub

most of D1 and alternated from him to the

Hit/Xyzzy

wagon despite repeatedly saying you want to vote

Dram

but scumread the people on his wagon.

{Read my ISO where I said xyzzy/profii are UNLIKELY to be scum together}

3)

Avoided a good bit of my questions and thoughts in my walls toward you in favor of saying deflective statements like

"Don't tell me how to play"

when I'm trying to understand your POV. 2406

4)

Proceed to OFFER yourself to be lynched OR use up a Town-Vig's shot if it meant sealing the fate of another person, who you DEFENDED as a townread in your case against me.

{A50}

2477

5)

You L-1'd

xyzzy

the MOMENT you got traction on your wagon, despite you saying you were going to reevaluate

HWS

. 2541

VOTE: profii

I'm done postponing my vote here. I can no longer rationalize how this is town.

I no longer feel good about the

xyzzy

lynch with several people's votes there.

I can still be swayed back onto

HWS

because I'd love to see his flip alongside

profii

.

I still want

MOI

to sell me on

Sky

being the best option today, he and I are the only people that have actually entertained

Sky

-scum in depth this dayphase despite her off-putting D1 performance and vote history... so I'm worried there.

Did I go on the hit vote? I thought he is town pretty much the whole way - I said I thought it was boon which, soft or messing is his thing which was the general exception from everyone else

[Inferno390]

Omg
I just realized there’s some serious misrep in point 2 of 2551.
I may take a second load ok at Taly.

[Taly]

Oh wait, I messed up there thinking you voted

Hit

lol was thinking about something else I guess. Same principle applies to

xyzzy

Still, is this your only response to my vote/reasons on you?

[profii]

5 made me lol if that helps