Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Gustavo]

Obviously I feel like bv would be the better vote but I have no objections.

[Irrelephant11]

I want EP to provide deeper reads on Gustavo and BV but for the record I retract ~2/3 of my stungun townread, after finishing this game

Gustavo is now my fav lynch. I'm not trying to rush this game day but I'll leave my vote on whoever I'm leaning toward for now

[Gustavo]

Y’all can rush the day. I’m not going to be able to give y’all what you want and I’m not going to fight my lynch.

[Gustavo]

I didn’t think I was the NK target. I thought shos was stupid to save me. I honestly felt I’m being saved for lylo. My gut says one of the claims is fake. I’ve searched the archived games and when scum has an encryptor, scum never have a neighborizer. I found one game where scum had a BP RBer and an encryptor and town had a neighborizer but I actually can see errant being scum here. He had a vote on tw and he was late and no reason. He had a vote on mom that’s again was late and no reason.

I don’t really have a read on skitter yet but nobody else seems to think he’s scum so it’s not worth looking there I guess. I will before the day ends.

So if we can eliminate skitter, We need to either lynch one of those bv/ errant today or lynch me and y’all deal with which one of the remaining tomorrow.

Logic says bv today. My heart/gut says it’s errant.

We obviously have time so when I have more of it I’ll do some more reading.

This post still sums up my thoughts.

Town should determine if scum faked guilty on scum or town. I feel that’s the most useful personally.

I was also the only one of the 3 to be on both scum wagons not like that means much I guess

[skitter30]

I want EP to provide deeper reads on Gustavo and BV but for the record I retract ~2/3 of my stungun townread, after finishing this game

Gustavo is now my fav lynch. I'm not trying to rush this game day but I'll leave my vote on whoever I'm leaning toward for now

huh

so a fairly large part of my stungun townread is his anti-associaitves with flipped scum in early game, but he is apparently quite adept at distancing as scum, based on that game, so that prob isn't a really good reason to townread him

[Irrelephant11]

3. Can you quote where exactly either Errant or TheWorst said that TheWorst had a result on me?

This ignorance/derp moment actually feels legit. Surely scum-BV would have been up to date with TW’s scum gambit to fake a guilty on his partner... or at least come prepared to fake some theatre?

I wasn't trying to make you paranoid of Nauci. I actually really nailed behaviors of Nauci's that came from an informed perspective. Her suspicion of me. Her read on Irrelephant. Her claiming that you were mindmelding with her while never trying to see eye to eye on those reads. I was wrong about why she was informed. But I really don't think I'd be capable of looking at the game so deeply that I'd spot legitimate informed-tells from townies as scum.

Both of these are actually really strong reasons to TR Blackvoid...

[skitter30]

after a no kill your biggest scumread tells you that they doc-protected you last night

how does that arrect ur read on the doc-claim?

[skitter30]

*affect

[Keyser Söze]

eh, i want a clear majority on a player whose not given much substantial content (as in townreads and such), so i’m absolutely not passing up this opportunity.

VOTE: Momrangal

Momrangal is now at L-3

, so this slot could only probably fit one more vote for our purposes as of right now, but absolutely no more than that.

Why does scum-stungun broadcast this to everyone?

1) that his vote is a mere pressure vote on a slot he is null reading
2) that he is stressing the fact that the mom wagon shouldn’t go beyond L-3

[not the conventional way you distance from your scum partner...]

[Irrelephant11]

I'm coming around to town on stungun

Math is sketchy.

Keyset is a slight townlean, but not as strongly as a lot of people are making him out to be.

I'm re-evaliating shoshin; still dont like her RVS but I like her more recent posts (esp 273 iirc)

I dont really like momrangel or gamma.

I dont think I have strong opinions on anyone else atm. Or at least, if I do, it's not coming to mind.

I'm not sure if scum!you jumps into the thread confidently voting someone that is being largely townread.

duckling, you're kinda gut-pinging me as scum btw

I'm kinda tending towards there actually tbh.

I really didn't like how he approached the gemini slot given newbie 1872.

I'm kinda waiting for him to talk about it and I'm willing to give him some time for a benefit-of-doubt thing.

I agree that the gimmick may be what's weird about him right now, but continuing that when people have said it's making him hard to read is :/

He was scum in a hydra in open 710 but he repped out pretty early after his partner repped out

You expect me to lead when I still gotta read
I don't see a need, laying low is my creed

math when you read I do want you to elaborate on your gemini thoughts

1) He's good at distancing
2) Avoiding the actual lynch

[skitter30]

sure, of all the presently-backed wagons that i don’t have my vote on, the ones that appeal the most to me are platfleece, wingedcatgirl and espeonage.

espeonage, for an ic, i feel has put out very little readable game content—which concerns me. ic’s should be demonstrative by how they play the game themselves—which would then perhaps having an effect of rubbing off on newbies.

platfleece feels like a potential newbie scum slot to me, but has 3 votes already and i don’t feel comfortable enough about my assertion to place them at L-1.

wingedcatgirl has given 3 votes already with very little substance as backing, and is notably classified as an SE in this game. so, i’d like to see more there.

for now, i’ll VOTE: Espeonage

from that newbie game on his scumbuddy about 80 posts before he actually votes him (his later vote put him at L-2; he avoids L-1 here)

[Irrelephant11]

wow I really have no idea how any of those skitter quotes got there

[Keyser Söze]

uh pardon me since when do you know me well enough that you can tell what's fake from me? o.0

Even this way of defending himself is bullshit. I call something fake, and his response is, "you don't know me well enough to know it's fake." He's not even denying that it's fake... instead he just wants to discredit me...

I don’t even know how you reached that conclusion...

What's your confusion?

It’s like a huge misrep on your part. The worst’s question was valid. He doesn’t have to deny that it was fake. You have the burden of proof to prove it was fake. Innocent until proven guilty

VOTE: shoshin

He’s not a team player. I ask him a few questions and he flails and votes me. By his own definition of what scum is, he’s guilty of being scum.

I’ll see y’all day 2.

does this not strike you as a situation scum!Shoshin would try to avoid being in though?

That’s wifom my friend. I don’t have time to play the wifom game. His iso reeks, his vote on nauci was opportunistic and he refused to explain why, he had doubt yet he stayed on.

To me that’s scum. I’ll log off and do the rest of my reading and take notes on my own time but for now I have no interest in voting nauci. Have no interest in voting you. I’ll develop more reads later.

I’m just here to deny I misrepped shoshin. I find it kind of hypocritical since he misrepped the worst.

I’d also like to say my scum game is nothing like my play so far this game and in both of those games he linked, sho did provide some sort of explanation for his vote or reads.

Look at Gustavo’s entrance:

- defends TW (buddy-esque)
- aggressively attacks Shoshin in a tunnel
- cocky “see y’all day 2”
- self meta clears himself


Yep, it’s behaviour we ideally wouldn’t like to see but I’m shamefully t/leaning his entrance.

[Keyser Söze]

Interesting find @skitter

[Keyser Söze]

Gustavos case and push on shos was ugly to witness and read

[Gustavo]

Gustavos case and push on shos was ugly to witness and read

Disagree. He deserved the pressure on him. He payed very scummy

[Irrelephant11]

I'm finding his lack of motivation here pretty in line with my scumread too honestly. Like I think scum caught in a "we're gonna lynch 2/3, one of whom is defo scum" usually has

less

survivalism than, say, scum in lylo who only needs one mislynch. His "I'm not going to fight my lynch" doesn't sound towny, it just sounds true.

pedit: yeah that shoshin push happened, it's not really central to my read on Gustavo either way. I think he always does that tunnel probably, regardless of alignment (and perhaps his insistence it was a good tunnel even now is a way of saying that)

with this,

V/LA for the weekend

[Gustavo]

I'm finding his lack of motivation here pretty in line with my scumread too honestly

That’s dumb tho. Regardless what happens this game going forward drop this kind of thinking n

I’ve already done plenty this day. Sure I’m not making huge cases but that’s never been my thing.

If the neighborizer is legit, bv is probably scum. If it’s fake then clearly he’s scum.

Vote history though, bv wasn’t on mom. Bv also hammered scum. Any townie who knows how to play would vote scum faking a guilty right away and not unvote no matter what.

That’s why I said bv needs to go first. You have to think of it from my POV, not yours.

In your mind you basically have to decide between 3 people. I only have to decide between 2.

Town has 2 mislynches so from my POV I don’t care who of those 2 go today. The game is solved for me. It isn’t for you and I don’t know how else to communicate my thoughts since i have done that already. I’m not going to convince people I’m town either cause that’s not what I do either.

[skitter30]

can you elaborate on your read on me a bit more?

[Gustavo]

can you elaborate on your read on me a bit more?

This to me?

Out of the 3 not confirmed you look the least like the partner to scums. You’re also townread by everyone else.

If everyone else is wrong, I’m ok being wrong also.

[skitter30]

do *you* think i'm scummy tho?

(ie independant of how everyone else is reading me)

[Keyser Söze]

Well I can’t help but be aggressive. That’s how I play

Indeed. I’ve read up to the start on D2 now... Gustavo was very aggressive AND made many very wrong stances:

- TW being town
- Shos bring scum
- Gamma being scum
- the EOD1 counter wagons being suspicious
- the votes on mom being suspicious
- me being LAMIST and scum


He butchers through every stance he expresses with a machete and hammer.

Scum-Gustavo has no regard for town-cred or self-appearance (forcing me to lean away from scum to town-Gustavo)


Show me a scum game Gustavo has been guilty of getting his hands so bloody with his aggressive playstyle and sub optimal decisions.

[Gustavo]

do *you* think i'm scummy tho?

(ie independant of how everyone else is reading me)

Yes I do.

[Gustavo]

Show me a scum game Gustavo has been guilty of getting his hands so bloody with his aggressive playstyle and sub optimal decisions.

I think I’ve only been scum once and the entire team stayed quiet and let town eat themselves.

[skitter30]

do *you* think i'm scummy tho?

(ie independant of how everyone else is reading me)

Yes I do.

so you're basically just resigned to losing to me if i'm scum?

i don't really understand this mindset. or, more accurately, i don't really understand why you're pushing other people as being a good lynch today if you think i'm scummy

like i kinda think that if you're town and think i'm scum you'd be trying to draw people around to your pov to convince them why they're wrong about me

but you're instead looking for reasons to find other people scummy and are kinda just ignoring me and your read on me