Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[skitter30]

yeah i think this is basically where i want to go too; i really think ep during the neighboizer thing + guilty thing is really really town.

let's just be careful not to end the day yet since the conftown still wants to like reread all my posts i think

[skitter30]

in case that wasn't clear, that's l-1

[Errantparabola]

2658 - Can you actually point to evidence that you're friends? You only played a couple of games together.

we talk in sitechat and discord semi regularly, we're friends on facebook, i send him blurry pictures of myself on snapchat, etc

[Gustavo]

That and Gustavo pushing against a Momrangal lynch early on, and the vote on Gamma all point to him.

I was against a mom lynch early on that one day because of some very quick votes, it was sketchy af. And I covered the gamma thing, math’s vote on gamma was way more indicative of scum trying to save mom. I had just replaced in and hadn’t even read mom’s posts, math actually scumnread mom and refused to vote her. You acting very scumnread mom and refused to vote her.

This post is terrible because it isn’t me.

Lynch bv tomorrow please. It has to be him.

[Gustavo]

Tomorrow, Ask yourself why the worst didn’t want to change his investigation target. Why did it have to be BV? Also bv seemed sure he was the one investigated before the worst outed himself. Lastly how would you react when your partner was attempting a risky gambit? Would you defend him or cast shade on him?

Like I’m kind of honored you guys are scared of me being scum because you think I’m capable of mimicking my town meta, tbh I don’t know if I can or not as I’ve only played one scum game in 3 years and that game wasn’t similar to this at all.

I’m also sort of insulted y’all think I could be scum because I’ve played an honest/genuine game and you guys think I’m basically a shitty player. I know I’m not perfect but I haven’t played like scum.

You guys did sort of make the right call. I did say me/bv. I just felt confirming the Bp would be more useful. Tomorrow please ignore the Bp claim. You don’t know if scum shot me or him and you don’t know if he is even Bp, so you have to pretend it didn’t happen.

Good luck guys.

[brassherald]

Usually I would do a votecount here but I'm running late for court today and last night I had to pick my mom up from the airport. What I'm saying is, it'll come when I get to it

[Gustavo]

Did anyone even read these? Did anyone even consider what i am saying?

no I don't think anyone did. Like criticize me all you want about my defeatist attitude but despite that I am still trying to make points to consider.

Mathprobtown but I'm probably gonna flip back and forth there

Why do you think mom said she’s going to flip back and forth on math?

I actually townread math which IDK how to really take considering I usually scumread him regardless of his alignment. Objectively speaking, though and in a vacuum everything he's done is straight null alignment wise. Nothing he's done is outside his range of play as scum but I have a gut feeling that he isn't here, and it may be his progression.

He town reads math but normally he scum reads him, he doesn’t even really have a reason for it. Is this something scum would say about their partner?

Since others know about the worst and math when the worst is scum, can somebody verify does the worst do this when he is town or could he doing this because math is his partner?

I tend to just dump math in the town bin and sort him later and that generally works for me (as he's generally town)

VOTE: The worst
I think mom-TW then probably N_M, if not then BV/math slot. Mom tw have to die though.
I was going to hard insist mom today actually but 1746 is legitimately scummy from duck here.
FTR vla should only stop a wagon d1 because it's about content/pressure then. I kind of just want flip now.

dude come on

Look at this post by Bernie. he clearly saw some sort of mom/tw/math connection so I feel better that i am not the only one who saw it. Bernie had some damn good reads so you have to at least take this into consideration tomorrow when I am gone please.

[Irrelephant11]

Thanks brassherald! You're the best!

I'm almost willing to do BV first here, just to clarify if he is indeed bulletproof who was probably shot before killing Gustavo
But like, the other way around works too I think

Also, I think Gustavo's "just lynch me" statements means he probably

is

the best choice to lynch for today? If his motivation is gone, he's either stuck scum or a townie who probably shouldn't come to lylo. I'd rather have ep and bv to choose from tomorrow, with skitter more able to evaluate the possibility of bv pocketing her. and if it's Gustavo idk if I trust Keyser to figure that out atm (sorry Keyser but you keep saying "this thing Gustavo did is scummy so he must be town" - your confbias is showing

These are good points from Gustavo though (like three posts up): "Tomorrow, Ask yourself why the worst didn’t want to change his investigation target. Why did it have to be BV? Also bv seemed sure he was the one investigated before the worst outed himself. Lastly how would you react when your partner was attempting a risky gambit? Would you defend him or cast shade on him?"

At this point I think Gustavo and blackvoid are both good lynches, ep and skitter are not. I think I'm ready to bet the game on it.

ep I'm reading your long post now and one thing you include is "I don't think scum have fakeclaims?" when in fact they do

[Gustavo]

If his motivation is gone

This has nothing to do with my motivation being gone. This has everything to do with the game basically being solved from my POV. I’m town so it’s either bv or errant.

I don’t think it’s skitter and if it is we all have been fooled and he deserves the win

[Gustavo]

ep I'm reading your long post now and one thing you include is "I don't think scum have fakeclaims?" when in fact they do

This.

I made that mistake myself but mid used safe claim, not fake so I didn’t see it when searching the role pm

[Irrelephant11]

This post is directed to Irre, who asked me to express more detailed thoughts on Gustavo and BV. You're welcome. don't say i didn't do anything for you LMAO

thank

[Gustavo]

I'm almost willing to do BV first here, just to clarify if he is indeed bulletproof who was probably shot before killing Gustavo
But like, the other way around works too I think

Here’s some food for thought.

Me flipping VT doesn’t confirm if bv was shot or is even a BP

Bv flipping confirms that if he was a BP he was probably shot, and if he isn’t the game is over.

[Irrelephant11]

This has everything to do with the game basically being solved from my POV. I’m town so it’s either bv or errant.

You keep using the word "solved" when in fact we have two lynches for three potential scum. I understand that from your pov there's only two potential scum, but that's only a "solve" if you stay alive. Instead, you are arguing for your own lynch. So, why keep saying the game is solved?

pedit: true, but I guess you flipping vt answers "does BV's claim make Gustavo more or less scummy?" by just answering if you're scum anyway

But you're right that flipping BV first is a slightly higher-info lynch

[Irrelephant11]

a wave of paranoia is coming at me and I'm wondering if the fact that it's hard to fully scumread any of the three choices is because skitter is scum

lemme go check again that she is/isn't

[Gustavo]

You keep using the word "solved" when in fact we have two lynches for three potential scum.

You say 3 potential scum but nobody is seriously considering skitter as scum. Everyone has written skitter off as basically confirmed town.

[Gustavo]

I’ll let Keyser get his final thoughts in and then we can end the day

[BlackVoid]

Thanks brassherald! You're the best!

I'm almost willing to do BV first here, just to clarify if he is indeed bulletproof who was probably shot before killing Gustavo
But like, the other way around works too I think

You keep bringing this up for some reason. There is no "clarification" that gives you. Me and Gustavo could both be town even if only one of us is shot. One of us being town tells you nothing about the other. Me flipping 1-shot BP doesn't say anything about Gustavo's alignment.

Also, I think Gustavo's "just lynch me" statements means he probably

is

the best choice to lynch for today? If his motivation is gone, he's either stuck scum or a townie who probably shouldn't come to lylo. I'd rather have ep and bv to choose from tomorrow, with skitter more able to evaluate the possibility of bv pocketing her.

That's fair. I don't think it's EP but if it somehow is, I'll know it tomorrow and I feel confident I can show skitter and whichever of you/Keyser is left why. Actual scum is

never

unlynchable. There will always be signs if you look hard enough.

These are good points from Gustavo though (like three posts up): "Tomorrow, Ask yourself why the worst didn’t want to change his investigation target. Why did it have to be BV? Also bv seemed sure he was the one investigated before the worst outed himself. Lastly how would you react when your partner was attempting a risky gambit? Would you defend him or cast shade on him?"

I don't know why he was so set on me. He probably wanted to take out someone good. TheWorst hinted he was going to investigate me so I thought if he had a soft "guilty" on me, he was either scum or neapolitan. I explained this before in my response to Nauci.

Gustavo's points are not good. They are rehashes of talking points addressed in detail with context many times. He's just repeating stuff like "suspected Momrangal but didn't vote her" and other sort of cookie-cutter scumtells hoping they'll stick while ignoring context.

[Keyser Söze]

and if it's Gustavo idk if I trust Keyser to figure that out atm (sorry Keyser but you keep saying "this thing Gustavo did is scummy so he must be town" - your confbias is showing

Fair play mate, if he's scum, he's fooled me

[Keyser Söze]

I’ll let Keyser get his final thoughts in and then we can end the day

Yes, I want to read through Skitter first.

[BlackVoid]

It's not skitter. Even outside of her overall gameplay, she's not going to react the way she did to me as scum. I came in hard-townreading her and never wavered. I don't think a scum-Skitter responds by being continuously paranoid of me and trying to read me. She'd just be glad I'm townreading her.

[Gustavo]

You don’t think paranoia can be faked but you seem to think I can fake all my reactions though...

[BlackVoid]

You don’t think paranoia can be faked but you seem to think I can fake all my reactions though...

Again ignoring context. I'm not saying paranoia can't be faked in general. I'm saying based on what I know about skitter, this is not the reaction she'd have as scum.

As scum you are stubborn. You push things that you call "scumtells" with the same amount of conviction as when you are town. You can project an inner belief that townies are legitimately scummy and deserve to be lynched. You seem to be the kind of player that would legitimately hate it and be offended if you are caught for what you think are the wrong reasons. So, I don't townread your reactions. I don't necessarily scumread them either. But your predecessor's interactions with flipped scum and Errant's behavior during the guilty is what I'm basing my decision on.

[Errantparabola]

I have posted all information from the two flipped scum, if the information you are looking for is not there, it was not provided for them

in the context of my post I was saying that they didnt have roleclaims

people voting gustavo do you think he is
a) town that you just think should be lynched
b) scum that has actively given up on the game
c) scum that is trying to win by employing a honestly really risky strategy of begging to be lynched
d) B but hoping for an offchance of C

If you think its C or D then.... I dont know I'm kind of not convinced?
Like..... I'd expect scum to eventually back off from that hill but it really seems like gustavo is willing to die on it

and maybe by making this post i'm doing exactly what he wants me to do

but

oh well

[Errantparabola]

mafia sucks

[Irrelephant11]

r u ok