Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Gustavo]

You’ll have to either wait til Wednesday or check my iso. I can’t remember off the top of my head and can’t go digging them now.

[skitter30]

math actually scumnread mom and refused to vote her.

this never happened

the one and only time he talked about her or addressed her in his entire iso is:

Searching rask got me no where in the member search box

He literally linked his profile and wiki
Do you think it'd be easier if his page was stickied

you're accusing bv of being scum on the basis that his predecessor scumread flipped scum but didn't vote her when the oppurtunity arose - math lurked basically throughout day1 and wasn't exactly active and voting gamma instead of her at the following vc is not scum indicative imo. also he literally never stated a read on her so claiming he scumread her and avoided voting her isn't true

"Three may keep a secret, if two of them are dead."

Votecount 1.9

the worst(2)

~ Invisibility(31), Bernie Sanders(93)

skitter30(2)

~ Keyser Söze(105), Momrangal(27)

Nauci(2)

~ Shoshin(98), Irrelephant11(57)

Momrangal(2)

~ northsidegal(5), the worst(81)

Irrelephant11(2)

~ Nauci(39), skitter30(76)

Gamma Emerald(1)

~ Mathdino(58)


Not Voting (2): stungun0404(34), Gamma Emerald(45)

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-02 17:10:00)

MOD REMINDERS

Still looking for a replacement for NSG.

[skitter30]

Since others know about the worst and math when the worst is scum, can somebody verify does the worst do this when he is town or could he doing this because math is his partner?

I tend to just dump math in the town bin and sort him later and that generally works for me (as he's generally town)

Subject: Open 721: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

Really!?!? Holding up is exactly why I think he could be scum haha

I mean Dino always becomes obv!town on page 2, and here he wasn't

EBWOP holding back

saaaame

Math can be a d2 sort. What he does is amazing and I get he needs to be in the swing of things to do it.

Subject: Open 721: Pick Your Poison (Game Over)

Mathdino Mathdino and Mathdino

Fuck the fact I am sworn not to tunnel you until d2 ugh
Ok if you can deliver me a scumfuck today I'll hold off.

[Gustavo]

this never happened

You are correct, that is bad memory, my fault, it was actually the worst. Which kind of makes it worse since supposedly math is good at catching the worst as scum...

you're accusing bv of being scum on the basis that his predecessor scumread flipped scum but didn't vote her when the oppurtunity arose - math lurked basically throughout day1 and wasn't exactly active and voting gamma instead of her at the following vc is not scum indicative imo. also he literally never stated a read on her so claiming he scumread her and avoided voting her isn't true

You do realize BV used that point agianst me first right? He tried to imply that made me scum, but what math did was way worse than what i did. I didn't have a read on mom, math scum read the worst. I had reasons to push gamma, math didn't.

So they either cancel each other out OR math looks worse imo. The narrative that math looks town and I look like scum is horseshit.


NOW, let's talk about the lurking. I won my scum game by lurking. Lurking is generally anti-town and some still treat it like a scumtell. Math lurking doesn't make the slot better, it makes it worse.

[skitter30]

It's not skitter. Even outside of her overall gameplay, she's not going to react the way she did to me as scum. I came in hard-townreading her and never wavered. I don't think a scum-Skitter responds by being continuously paranoid of me and trying to read me. She'd just be glad I'm townreading her.

qft btw

like i'm not going to try to undermine townreads on me at this stage of the game if i'm scum lol

--

Also, you originally made this point a few times before. He's just repeating what you said. Your basis was that you played with me and don't think I would make this play based on playstyle/personality. errant never played with me so I don't know where he's drawing this from.

I got some FishytheFish vibes there.

on a similar note - idk if scum!bv brings up fishythefish here, even in context of someone else, given that he knows i'm paranoid of him

context is that me/bv were in a hydra and we were down to the last scum and fishythefish repped in and one fo the tactics he used was sheeping someone widely townread instead of pushing his own points - like he used it as a way to get towncred and to show he was thinking townish thought processes

and we talked about that's how bv plays scum

and in this game if he's scum here he's using me as the widely townread person who he's sheeping/pocketing

but i don't think he brings that up as scum here (even in the context of someoen else) knowing that i'm paranoid about just that

like idk if he brings that up here knowing that'll fuel my paranoia here when keeping me pocketed is kinda his path to victory

i do know that one of my blindspots is that i can be pocketed, especially by people i like and just don't want to see as scum

bv kinda fits in that category - i really really don't want to mislynch him again.

so i'm trying super super hard to be objective here. i do admit to being paranoid. idk if i can ever get over that completely. and i've never played with scum!him so i don't really have as strong a grasp on his scumgame as he has on mine

but like, i just skimmed his iso in red flag - his most recent scumgame. he's a lot less nuanced. a lot more agenda-driven. he scumreads people who scumread him. his trajectory isn't nearly as nuanced as it is here; there's a lot less insight and analysis. he doesn't feel as real or sincere or motivated.

like one of the strongest towntells i found for him this game is that he pegged nauci as having an informed perspective - he was right for the wrong reasons. i don't know if he'd pick up on that as scum. if he did as scum anyways i think he pr reads her for it - i don't think he purposefully starts a thing with her over it as scum

[skitter30]

You are correct, that is bad memory, my fault, it was actually the worst. Which kind of makes it worse since supposedly math is good at catching the worst as scum...

he might have scumread him but i don't think he goes all-in on a tw scumread when he isn't really in the agme and can't really push it through conclusively

i don't think math voting gamma instead of tw at that time is significant

in constrast you say:

- 'mom votes ping me' (1678 wrt to her wagon)

- 'pretty sure i havne't had a mom scumread today' (2195)

- she shouldn't be wagoned while v/la 2267

- 'more reasons to dislike the mom wagon. i don't even have a read on mom but these reasons just suck' 2269

- 'Not that my opinions matter to anyone but my gut says mom flips town. The reasons are hella weak and the lack of a counter speaks volumes. ' 2320

- and then you vote her 2415

overall i think your trajectory is much worse than math's lack of one given that he flaked.

like math basically site-flaked. it wasn't specific to this game and i don't think it was ai. before you say maybe he did it on purpose sitewide for this game as scum - he still isn't really back and it's been weeks and he even flaked out of i think two towngames and he actualy likes playing town and i can't imagine doing him doing that unless there were significant real-life reasons

[skitter30]

people voting gustavo do you think he is
a) town that you just think should be lynched
b) scum that has actively given up on the game
c) scum that is trying to win by employing a honestly really risky strategy of begging to be lynched
d) B but hoping for an offchance of C

mostly b coupled with the fact that i think you and bv are less likely to be scum

[Gustavo]

Well if it isn’t bv then it has to be errant or skitter. I can make a better case for bv so that’s where I’m at. Bv misrepping me doesn’t look good but skitter did it also so :shrug:

[skitter30]

I do wish skitter had the time/energy to clarify if she thought BV was pocketing her y/n. I had thought once or twice that he probably was when I scumread him more

i got a lot of my motivation back, if it isn't apparent

i think i explained that as best i can

[Gustavo]

You are correct, that is bad memory, my fault, it was actually the worst. Which kind of makes it worse since supposedly math is good at catching the worst as scum...

he might have scumread him but i don't think he goes all-in on a tw scumread when he isn't really in the agme and can't really push it through conclusively

i don't think math voting gamma instead of tw at that time is significant

in constrast you say:

- 'mom votes ping me' (1678 wrt to her wagon)

- 'pretty sure i havne't had a mom scumread today' (2195)

- she shouldn't be wagoned while v/la 2267

- 'more reasons to dislike the mom wagon. i don't even have a read on mom but these reasons just suck' 2269

- 'Not that my opinions matter to anyone but my gut says mom flips town. The reasons are hella weak and the lack of a counter speaks volumes. ' 2320

- and then you vote her 2415

overall i think your trajectory is much worse than math's lack of one given that he flaked.

like math basically site-flaked. it wasn't specific to this game and i don't think it was ai. before you say maybe he did it on purpose sitewide for this game as scum - he still isn't really back and it's been weeks and he even flaked out of i think two towngames and he actualy likes playing town and i can't imagine doing him doing that unless there were significant real-life reasons

That isn’t a weird trajectory at all when you consiser the timing of my vote as only due to deadline. And Jesus Christ I said somebody shouldn’t be wagoned while on v/la and that’s a bad thing? Like really?

Smh.

Keyser vote me please.

[skitter30]

gah idk UNVOTE:

[skitter30]

I can’t seem to find a game where skitter has been scum at all, let alone where bv was town. I’ll have to search from a computer. Without that this meta read on skitter’s attitude when playing as scum is clearly fabricated.

newbie 1787, micro 724, minis 1931, 1940, and 1946, the last of which was last august; bv was in none of them

[BlackVoid]

Gustavo's responses to me have actually sounded genuine. I asked because he seemed like the kind of guy who'd win scumgames and then say at endgame that he never lied about anything and that actual townies were very scummy. It's just the feeling I got from his general attitude. (Btw, you're TwoFace, right?)

I'm

still

having misgivings. I didn't want to say anything to derail the wagon because if he was scum, that would just let him off the hook. But I hated Errant's last posts. I'm going to give this another good look. Thinking more on it, I don't feel like his reactions are

that

strongly indicative of town and I could see a scenario in the scum PT going:

TW: Hey, one of us should claim neighborizer and say we neighborized the other.
Errant: That sounds fun. I'll do it and I'll say I did it because we were friends and know each other.
TW: We should also have a running log of things that we'd say in our "neighborhood."
Errant: No one will ever suspect that we're scum together. It'll be brilliant! You're the worst, seriously! (Did I say worst, I mean best)

[skitter30]

yeah idk if he literally asks to be hammered as scum

but the neighborhood things feels super super super town

[Gustavo]

Btw, you're TwoFace, right?)

No

I’ve been compared to 3 different players now lol

[skitter30]

@gustavo can you talk about ep please?

[Gustavo]

@gustavo can you talk about ep please?

Who is ep? You mean errant?

What about him/her?

[skitter30]

yeah errant.

how do you read them?

[BlackVoid]

yeah idk if he literally asks to be hammered as scum

but the neighborhood things feels super super super town

Okay, that's fair but it's still a small sample of his overall posts. His latest posts really just squicked me out. It felt like he was trying to get us to lynch Gustavo but not actually commit to anything and save his credibility for LYLO to go up against me. There's also his unvote after Not_Mafia was hammered and claim that he doesn't N_M was going to flip scum. I felt like he kinda defaulted to thinking I was scum despite calling me town. It's just a lot easier to fake being very town at certain points but outside of that, I didn't really think his behavior was town. I still think my arguments for town-Errant are good but I just don't feel as good about the read as I should if that makes any sense.

[Gustavo]

I have been so busy making my points on bv, but my gut earlier said scum. If we assume scum didn’t kill me and scum tried to shoot math, then some of his actions stand out to me. Plus the neighborizer could be fake.

I definitely don’t have the time or energy to pivot and start fresh with him.

[Errantparabola]

You're the worst, seriously! (Did I say worst, I mean best)

i would never make this awful joke

[Errantparabola]

Also yeah i dont want to commit to anything,so what
Fight me

I have lived like that every day of every year of my life
I am self destructively indecisive

[Gustavo]

Is anyone familiar with skitter’s scum games? Does she like to bus/distance?

[BlackVoid]

I didn't really mean indecision. I haven't really committed either. I meant it more in a sense that I don't feel like you are solving in a way that helps you reach a conclusion. You made this massive post where you found reasons to townread and scumread both me and Gustavo and ended by saying you'll just sheep the conf-town. It looked like the effort was geared more towards effort for the sake of it - to show everyone that you are efforting.

[Errantparabola]

((
Okay