Mini 2018 - American Presidents Mafia (Game Over)

[Irrelephant11]

forgot, I'll try to do that still

[Gustavo]

I’m not worried about it anymore. It’s clear nobody has listened to anything I’ve said

[Irrelephant11]

Gamma, can you link some representative games of you as town/scum?

Honestly I have so many games of varying quality that it's kinda hard to do that without also omitting some element of my play
would you like one good and one bad of each?
also VOTE: Gustavo because at this point he rings more of scum who just doesn't give a shit if he's wrong rather than town who's tunneled.

VOTE: gamma

Since nobody wants to lynch sho, I’ll go here.

VOTE: Gamma

UNVOTE:

VOTE: gamma

The fact he’s not voted all game and his first vote is on me and his reason basically implies he knows I’m town is a red flag for me

I can’t be scum who doesn’t give a shit if I’m wrong. I’m fairly obviously town. He’s not scum hunting imo.

And this just one of the reasons why I’m suspicious of skitter.

VOTE: keyeser

Really hate when people say they are going to do stuff instead of actually doing it.

I still personally think sho is scum but if I’m all alone I’m not wasting anymore time pushing it. Skittle is scummy also. Bernie’s weird hammer looks bad also. I don’t remember my day 1 read of keyser was but his day 2 gut pings me hard. These mom votes also ping me.

I feel like I’m pretty transparent? Ask me any question, if you’re genuinely unsure how to sort me

I mean that’s why I want to town read you but then you make scummy posts sometimes. Scum have to appear town and I feel you are doing a good job of looking town but I don’t get that feeling it’s genuine

VOTE: Skitter
Just a feeling. y’all should sheep me

You weren’t being transparent here.

Actually given that she's V/LA till the 9th (wow) I'd say it means she's the designated vote-for-people-not-paying-enough-attention

I'll come back to her later

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Or here.

I found other examples of you not being transparent or sheeping votes for little to no reason.

You aren’t transparent when it matters imo.

mean according to your 1678 you scumread Keyser, Bernie, Skitter, me

Finding people scummy doesn’t mean I think they are scum.

And you haven’t offered any townreads

And?

I said I didn’t have any. Even if I did I’m not required to share them.

Ill only vote you/skittle/elephant today.

Sorry I left off nauci.

Gustavo can you please respond to this, or maybe let me know that you're going to later? I'd like to know why you are no longer scumreading Bernie or Keyser, and whether or not you scumread me (& if so, why).

I don’t town read you. I’m good with day 1 policy lynches.

Sho/skittles/nauci are my current scum reads. I don’t have good feelings about you or Bernie.

Though I’m kind of annoyed right now. Not a single person scum reads the scummiest person in the game yet nobody can explain what about this behavior makes him town.

I mean I'm still gonna do it for my/keyser's benefit, if it potentially clears you I'm not going to just skip it.

[Irrelephant11]

lol there's some of it xD

I really gotta be more careful about using the Q+ function and then doing quick replies

[Keyser Söze]

Yeah, I need the help Irrelephant11 - I’d appreciate it if you help clear my head x

[Irrelephant11]

okay, where's your head at?

also no-lynching is a hilarious suggestion

[Gustavo]

i can't even with you elephant. You say you don't like my reads yet you mention gamma who I voted first and you joined on the wagon, you also list keyser but that wasn't a scum read vote, that was a pressure vote to do something.

I really hate it when lazy players get cleared.

[Irrelephant11]

I mean I didn't mean to post those yet I want to add commentary still of what exactly was confusing me at each point

If you would otherwise be scumreading me for "laziness" you should be grateful I'm cleared to avoid the mislynch

[Gustavo]

No laziness wouldn’t be a reason but you’ve posted some things today that really look bad. I pointed them out earlier

[Irrelephant11]

keyser where'd you go

I'm working on the long post re:gustavo but I have to go offline in less than an hour and I want to talk if possible

pedit: right, so good thing Nauci cleared me

[Irrelephant11]

Something I'm learning as I'm reading Gustavo's ISO and thinking about EP's - EP thinks it's mom and tw pretty much right off the bat. Meanwhile, Gustavo never gives a reason to scumread either player, but does vote for both of them when they're lynched. Hard to say which is the informed perspective...

[Gustavo]

Something I'm learning as I'm reading Gustavo's ISO and thinking about EP's - EP thinks it's mom and tw pretty much right off the bat. Meanwhile, Gustavo never gives a reason to scumread either player, but does vote for both of them when they're lynched. Hard to say which is the informed perspective...

I never scum read either player

[Irrelephant11]

Right, that's what I meant

[Irrelephant11]

I think I want to lynch EP :crying_laughing:

[Irrelephant11]

That's actually more OTT than I mean to be. I'm stuck now between EP and Gustavo. A lot of the quotes I've been pulling together from Gustavo include his reads always, consistently, being 100% wrong. On the other hand, EP apparently was scumreading the worst, and yet says he used his one-shot delayed neighborizer on him, which I know we touched on but in retrospect seems less believable than before. Gosh these ISOs are tricky things, and I am aware that I am paranoid.

Keyser this is why I wanted to talkkkk

[Gustavo]

What night did errant neighbor tw?

[Irrelephant11]

most of your reads and reasoning all game, honestly.

You disagree with Shos which is whatever. I had good reason today specifically scum read him

You voted gamma after I did so you clearly shared that one.

Could you maybe be less vague? I can’t defned myself from vague accusations

Spoiler: things that I didn't understand from Gustavo's perspective

And this just one of the reasons why I’m suspicious of skitter.

this was the first mention I could find of a scumread on skitter and I didn't understand it

VOTE: keyeser

Really hate when people say they are going to do stuff instead of actually doing it.

this seemed like a vote for scum, you're saying now it's not but either way I don't get the thinking here. Why vote someone for pressure when they say they're about to make content? Why scumread someone about to make content, rather than wait for the content to see?

I still personally think sho is scum but if I’m all alone I’m not wasting anymore time pushing it. Skittle is scummy also. Bernie’s weird hammer looks bad also. I don’t remember my day 1 read of keyser was but his day 2 gut pings me hard. These mom votes also ping me.

Skitter, Bernie, Keyser scumreads. Never understood any of these. (sidenote: subtle defense of mom here)

I feel like I’m pretty transparent? Ask me any question, if you’re genuinely unsure how to sort me

I mean that’s why I want to town read you but then you make scummy posts sometimes. Scum have to appear town and I feel you are doing a good job of looking town but I don’t get that feeling it’s genuine

VOTE: Skitter
Just a feeling. y’all should sheep me

You weren’t being transparent here.

Actually given that she's V/LA till the 9th (wow) I'd say it means she's the designated vote-for-people-not-paying-enough-attention

I'll come back to her later

VOTE: Not_Mafia

Or here.

I found other examples of you not being transparent or sheeping votes for little to no reason.

You aren’t transparent when it matters imo.

You find reasons to scumread me but go on to ignore them and not vote me ever

mean according to your 1678 you scumread Keyser, Bernie, Skitter, me

Finding people scummy doesn’t mean I think they are scum.

like what

And you haven’t offered any townreads

And?

I said I didn’t have any. Even if I did I’m not required to share them.

this is both confusing and an un-cooperative attitude

Ill only vote you/skittle/elephant today.

Sorry I left off nauci.

"you" meaning Shoshin. This list is again without reasons, seems baseless, confused me then and confuses me now

Gustavo can you please respond to this, or maybe let me know that you're going to later? I'd like to know why you are no longer scumreading Bernie or Keyser, and whether or not you scumread me (& if so, why).

I don’t town read you. I’m good with day 1 policy lynches.

Sho/skittles/nauci are my current scum reads. I don’t have good feelings about you or Bernie.

Though I’m kind of annoyed right now. Not a single person scum reads the scummiest person in the game yet nobody can explain what about this behavior makes him town.

Ignoring the shoshin thing, you're consistent here with previously expressed scumreads but still make no case on most of them/don't vote most of them

I like Keyser and elephantman for scum right now

???

Skitter could be scum also

????

Because if we lynch BV and he flips 1sbp, you (gustavo) are no longer cleared. And since we have to wait a while for BV to come back, and NM is being pretty stubborn, getting a closer look at you is another helpful option

even if he flips 1sbp i'm still cleared imo.

this makes no sense to me, especially when compared to the below:

I didn’t think I was the NK target. I thought shos was stupid to save me. I honestly felt I’m being saved for lylo.

My gut says one of the claims is fake. I’ve searched the archived games and when scum has an encryptor, scum never have a neighborizer. I found one game where scum had a BP RBer and an encryptor and town had a neighborizer but I actually can see errant being scum here. He had a vote on tw and he was late and no reason. He had a vote on mom that’s again was late and no reason.

I don’t really have a read on skitter yet but nobody else seems to think he’s scum so it’s not worth looking there I guess. I will before the day ends.

So if we can eliminate skitter, We need to either lynch one of those bv/ errant today or lynch me and y’all deal with which one of the remaining tomorrow.

Logic says bv today. My heart/gut says it’s errant.

We obviously have time so when I have more of it I’ll do some more reading.

My gut says with the neighborizer scum is either bv or errant but let’s lynch nm anyway

this is weird and in retrospect v scummy

like his posting today makes me feel like he doesn't really care who gets flipped

It’s because I don’t. It’s not mylo/lylo. I’m also supposed to be on v/la so I can’t really do much. I’ve pretty much eliminated you. If you are scum nobody is seeing it so you’ll win. So that means from my POV it’s bv or errant which means town wins no matter what.

If y’all want to lynch me today I already said that should be the choice. Me or bv.

"town wins no matter what" and "if y'all want to lynch me I already said that should be the choice" contradict

I did see a very odd statement from errant that I can’t process. Where he describes what happened in the Pt. I swear he describes the worst scum plan of painting others as scum buddies to mom. It’s weird.

No clue what this is referring to or means

I've learned that this sore subject makes you angry and leads to many posts that are unhelpful because they are NAI. I'm gonna skip this question

No please don’t.

If a player out right lied about you to shade you. How would you react?

In general, I'd think they were scum, but I also OMGUS too much. I'd definitely want an explanation. I won't say more here.

I think it's scummy not because of the compromising, but because of the refusal most of the time to cooperate

Idk if I ever refused to cooperate though. Can you find some specific examples where I refused to cooperate?

Will answer tomorrow, hopefully

[Irrelephant11]

cause i thought he was town d1 and we're friends and i like him

What was the stupid reason you had for the town read? Did you ever explain it?

I dont even remember but it was something to do with the replace in i think, I wasnt taking the game nearly as seriously as i did on D2 and D3 and thought it didnt really matter who i targeted

Okay:

N1: I neighborized worst
D2: The thread was made.
N2: The thread was unlocked.

Post order (we joked around a lot, those things are omitted. and posts are heavily paraphrased for obv reasons)

EP: I know youre a PR
EP: What are your reads, do you still scumread Nauci & Skitter
TW: Nauci & Skitter are probably partners with mom, i'm not surprised at the flip
TW: I'm probably going to be looking at BV tonight
EP: So you're a cop? why don't you investigate one of your scumreads
TW: It makes more sense to investigate at the top of the lynchpool <-- (basically claiming cop or something simiilar??)
TW: BV is a nullread and most likely wont be night killed
EP: I still dont think it makes sense not to investigate a scumread
TW: I'd always choose someone like this regardless of who i scumread
EP: did you have a result on N1
TW: maybe you'll find out eventually
EP: Why not investigate me instead of BV
TW: no thanks

[Irrelephant11]

ohhh nevermind I don't want to lynch EP he scumread the worst

after

picking him as neighbor

[Irrelephant11]

Yeah I'm sold on Gustavo, hope this helped Keyser.

[Irrelephant11]

"You may delay, but time will not."

Votecount 1.13

Gamma Emerald(4)

~ Mathdino(59), Bernie Sanders(107), Shoshin(185), Not_Mafia(39)

Momrangal(3)

~ Errantparabola(5), skitter30(98), Nauci(78)

Nauci(2)

~ Momrangal(45), the worst(122)

Shoshin(1)

~ Gustavo(104)

Gustavo(1)

~ Gamma Emerald(78)

Not Voting (4): Irrelephant11(103), Keyser Söze(126),

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-04 17:10:00)

This was done by hand so please tell me if I made mistakes.

Spoiler: colored version

Votecount 1.13

Gamma Emerald

(4) ~ Mathdino(59),

Bernie Sanders

(107),

Shoshin

(185),

Not_Mafia

(39)

Momrangal

(3) ~ Errantparabola(5), skitter30(98),

Nauci

(78)

Nauci

(2) ~

Momrangal

(45),

the worst

(122)

Shoshin

(1) ~ Gustavo(104)
Gustavo(1) ~

Gamma Emerald

(78)

Not Voting (4):

Irrelephant11

(103),

Keyser Söze

(126),

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Day 1 deadline is in (expired on 2018-07-04 17:10:00)

Mom, what's your current read on Gamma?

I'm hung up on it.

Gamma is not town, and makes sense as scum but at the same time something doesn't feel right.

Wagon comp could be better and I may be hung up on the fact that Bernie is on there. It doesn't seem like much of a bus placement but in my mind, both Bernie and gamma have decent chance of flipping scum but I don't see much associations between them.

That aside, I feel like gamma has been getting a little bit more engaged and I don't want to discourage that especially when I think I see some probing I don't remember coming from scum gamma

this was the only other thing of note I found. Looking at that votecount, Mom says she doesn't like the Gamma wagon composition. Anyone have any thoughts there?

[Gustavo]

mod, would encryptor only apply for mafia forum or would it apply for all forums if applicable?

[Gustavo]

Did errant ever explain why he didn’t neighbor his top 2 town reads?

Also why did he neighbor tw, who he town read supposedly but voted him day 2

[Gustavo]

ohhh nevermind I don't want to lynch EP he scumread the worst

after

picking him as neighbor

And? That doesn’t clear errant at all

[Gustavo]

this was the first mention I could find of a scumread on skitter and I didn't understand it

He was saying there was no attempts at a counter when there were 2. Remember the whole lying thing? I didn’t know why he would lie so I was suspicious of him.

this seemed like a vote for scum, you're saying now it's not but either way I don't get the thinking here. Why vote someone for pressure when they say they're about to make content? Why scumread someone about to make content, rather than wait for the content to see?

Idk how you thought that but whatever. I’m not a fan of stalling posts. I wanted to make sure he wasn’t going to say that and then lurk.

Skitter, Bernie, Keyser scumreads. Never understood any of these. (sidenote: subtle defense of mom here)

Shame on you for by ever asking me to explain them, don’t use your inability to ask me questions against me now.

Skitter I’ve sort of explained earlier plus the part I just explained.
Bernie I explain in that post. That hammer was weird. I don’t town read weird behavior
Keyser I just explained. I hate when people say they are going to post stuff when they could just post stuff
That wasn’t really a mom defense. Back to back votes for somebody out of the gate struck me as weird.

You find reasons to scumread me but go on to ignore them and not vote me ever

Idk why that’s a bad thing really but I can’t really defend myself here. I was suspicious of you but I was more suspicious of other people I guess.

like what

Like I don’t know what your issue with that is. Players an act scummy and not be scum. There is even a common phrase we used to use, “too scummy to be scum”. This is a stupid reason to use against me and you should seriously go back to the newbie que for a long time after this game.

this is both confusing and an un-cooperative attitude

I don’t possibly understand how you can be confused by that statement. I’ll concede it was uncooperative but that isn’t AI. So...

you" meaning Shoshin. This list is again without reasons, seems baseless, confused me then and confuses me now

I’m sorry but if you didn’t ask me to explain back then, you lose the right to complain about it now. Your inability to question me should be your problem, not mine. I can give you explanations for them now if I felt it would make a difference but you’ve essentially ignored everything I’ve had to say today and then started attach nonsense like misgendering to lynch me so you’ve made your agenda quite clear.

Ignoring the shoshin thing, you're consistent here with previously expressed scumreads but still make no case on most of them/don't vote most of them

And? This is very nit picky and doesn’t really relate to my alignment. I’m sure if you looked at other games I’ve done the same thing. It’s a product of me tunneling.

this makes no sense to me,

I don’t have to make sense to you though.

this is weird and in retrospect v scummy

Weird? Sure. Scummy? Sure I can see that but tell me I’m wrong.

If you can honestly say you want NM in the game over either of those 2 you are flat out lying to everyone. NM doesn’t post content. He would remain completely unreadable and would be lynched in lylo.

town wins no matter what" and "if y'all want to lynch me I already said that should be the choice" contradict

That isn’t a contradiction at all if you actually read the entire post and not quite me out of context.

From MY POV it’s Bv it errant. If I lynch wrong today, I lynch right tomorrow.

Separately. Town should lynch me or bv today because figuring out who scum tried to shoot is beneficial imo.

No clue what this is referring to or means

So why not ask me when I said it? Go read the post from errant. He said tw was setting up skitter and nauci as mom’s partners. Why would scum tw say that to town errant? Sounds more like what scum tw would say to scum errant personally.