micro 816-II: pokemon go (open game) (gambe over)

[Shoshin]

I disagree, GiF. Like, I don't care how good you are as scum, I still think you're going to unconsciously drop tells as town that you wouldn't drop as scum until you become aware of the tells, and I think that's what 52 was. I don't think you'd fake that error as scum because you haven't played with me enough to know I'd townread you for it, so I don't think the error was intentional and that means it's a great source of information about your alignment.

[northsidegal]

rc, thoughts on stungun here compared to him being scum in transformers mafia?

[GirlInFreezer]

I didn't read transformers mafia given that I was basically n0ed wrt my ability to make my reads on people matter.

I hard scumread him in transformers this game I'm unsure.

[stungun0404]

on top of page 12 rn, note that.

@shoshin, your case upholds my impression of profii. i think he’s scummy so far for tunneling his vote up to page 11 on me for like no general reason. also, when a player shows a lack of hard stances in their scum game, but a willingness to commit to such in a town game, that speaks volume towards their scumminess.

so yes profii and nsg still can make sense as scum to me.

nsg has done nothing in this thread, and so there would be no reason for profii to talk about her if they are partners. i’d assume he’s decent at avoiding associatives given that according to profii’s wiki, his scum team’s won 75% of the games he’s been in.

and also rc, scum mentions i feel is not a reliable scumtell at all. in fact, i used such in a recent scum game (newbie 1875) to try and get teacher voted out in LYLO. my partner platfleece mentioned HIM 26 times in his ISO, and my slot only 3 times.

26-3 is an utter defeat of town mentions over scum partner mentions

[Shoshin]

Stun's town.

[northsidegal]

Stun's town.

that's kind of what i was leaning towards as well, from a bit of what i've read it seems like he tries to be a bit more lamist in his scum games than what i'm seeing here

[northsidegal]

i want to know why people are townreading kokichi. from what i've read so far i think he's probably my strongest scumread (relatively speaking) - his play kind of reminds me of mini normal 2005.

[profii]

Right, where i said Shoshin was trying to find evidence of the truth I sometimes see people paint facts as something else and i sometimes see that as a scum tell

328 is not the first time Stungun has mentioned my vote on him, in 328 see “tunnelling his vote up to page 11”
Obviously my vote was on Stungun that far - fact. Tunnelling? Absolutely no chance - and you’ve said it more than once so something isn’t right there.
In my last read list I said I think you were trying to scum hunt, that was meant to infer doing something towny which was good.

If I was tunnelling you would clearly be at the forefront of my iso and I’d probably disregard most of the rest of the game.


So to me you seem to be painting facts as something they are not.

I’ll be watching closely

[Shoshin]

i want to know why people are townreading kokichi. from what i've read so far i think he's probably my strongest scumread (relatively speaking) - his play kind of reminds me of mini normal 2005.

Can you elaborate on this?

[stungun0404]

I actually like that page topping post from Shoshin there - It’s easy for scum to just throw out whatever narrative they want to try and get people to believe but you’ve gone meta diving to go and find the “right” narrative irrespective of what you find

Have the biggest town badge so far

i’m holding you accountable for this read moving forward

like it’s not even really a hard stance

shoshin is definitely town so far given her priorities scream shoshin town to me. can you make that sort of a statement? that would look much better and not look like trying to actively avoid taking hard stances.

if she’s scum fooling me, i’d eat my hat, but i definitely can’t see this being a shoshin scum affair so far.


———————————————-

even aronis is taking many hard stances (conftown stance on page 12 of shoshin; committing to a full reads list this early). i’m inclined to find that to be town townhunting and scumhunting, so early townlean on aronis for taking so many hard stance.

i find it incredibly sketchy that profii has not taken even one.

[northsidegal]

i want to know why people are townreading kokichi. from what i've read so far i think he's probably my strongest scumread (relatively speaking) - his play kind of reminds me of mini normal 2005.

Can you elaborate on this?

sure, although give me a second to keep reading - hopefully either i'll have changed my mind or i'll have something a bit more concrete to point to.

[stungun0404]

to be clear, the statement i asked profii about there was indeed a statement i am feeling early on in this game

[stungun0404]

good, 283 profii takes some stances, but heavily favored in terms of finding players scummy (more scum than town mentions which looks bad to me).

especially when he says i’m probably not scum, but he kept his vote on me all the way up until the later aronis vote off memory.

and he also mentioned aronis as being a scumplayer’s dream (implying thinking aronis town), then later turns around and votes him. i don’t get that progression. he’s either scum or he’s not scum, now he’s scum to you?

[Aronis]

i want to know why people are townreading kokichi. from what i've read so far i think he's probably my strongest scumread (relatively speaking) - his play kind of reminds me of mini normal 2005.

PoE

You and profii are scum so he must be town

[profii]

good, 283 profii takes some stances, but heavily favored in terms of finding players scummy (more scum than town mentions which looks bad to me).

especially when he says i’m probably not scum, but he kept his vote on me all the way up until the later aronis vote off memory.

and he also mentioned aronis as being a scumplayer’s dream (implying thinking aronis town), then later turns around and votes him. i don’t get that progression. he’s either scum or he’s not scum, now he’s scum to you?

See this contradicts itself - i am not making hard stances so why would I move my RVS if I’m not confident on reads?

[Aronis]

Stungun might as well be an IC at this point

[northsidegal]

yeah, i'm fine with kokichi being scum. he's doing the thing where he just pops in and responds to or comments on a few posts and then leaves but doesn't actually say anything reads-related. the only reads related things in his iso are the easiest possible points to make, the "if creature doesn't obvtown we lynch him" and the one with regards to me where the lurking is starting to concern him.

i suppose that this post could count:

Keep it up creature

Also, not sure who I think is scum yet. If I had to choose maybe stungun

but this really doesn't seem all that substantial.

especially in a game format like this where you always have someone to talk to (except northsidestory... ), i think kokichi as town would have more to say or would have something he would be pushing at this point. there are plenty of games you can look at for comparison on this to check what i'm saying.

VOTE: kokichi

[stungun0404]

hmm, profii i to an extent do like that you found a town game where nsg started off lurkier. but tbch, i’m pretty sure she does this a lot more as scum than town, i say that from both my own experiences and how her meta sitewide is known as doing such. she’s even mentioned it herself in one game, that she tends to flake out of games as scum.

@gif, as of page 12 what made you townread profii?

still catching up!

[Shoshin]

Would Kokichi not play that way as town, NSG?

[northsidegal]

other assorted thoughts i had reading through:

One game meta I guess? You feel different, less confident, using words like probably where they were absent in the other game, your one confident read is on me who you shouldn't really confidently townread, you just feel not the same.

Why are you so sure profii would be the partner? What's with the excessive focus on Aronis? Why should you have been locktown to Stun?

this is a point i definitely agree on for shoshin - when i was modding mini normal 2012 people being overconfident in their reads (to town's detriment) was something i was constantly noticing and shoshin was one of those people. i'm not sure if it's AI or not on comparison because i haven't read shoshin's one scumgame (mini normal 2010) all that closely yet and on further thought i'm not sure if i should expect that much confidence this early in the game. after all, i think it was only on day 2 that i really started noticing it there. even still, it's something that i feel is at least worth bringing up.

I have a theory that Shoshin is throwing out TRs all over the place to see who gets the warm fuzzy feeling of “hey she trs me, she’s right she must be good” and therefore Shoshin is trying to pick up buddies - hence I asked if she is always assertive - given she said she considers herself less passive in previous games, this is an alarm bell so I followed that up by saying why have you changed it up as well

But on the other hand, GIF said that’s a thing for Shoshin so my other theory is that Aronis is piggybacking on the Shoshin content - the read list was pretty dire - putting a non active as the main content is a cop out and also reading me as sure fire scum would be fine if I’d done something scummy, but I feel like Aronis is carefully manufacturing that read in line with Shoshin to try and create a bit of momentum perhaps

is this something i can townread profii off of? historically i think i'm pretty bad at reading profii so i don't think i'm really one to ask when it comes to sorting his slot but reading through i felt like having the theories was a towntell (even though that was something i got falsely townread for as scum in my first scumgame). eh.

[northsidegal]

Would Kokichi not play that way as town, NSG?

i would think that kokichi as town would at least be voting someone already or trying to sort people.

[stungun0404]

I don't know what to say more like

More gut feeling than anything concrete

i mean, i could make an argument for potential profii town—so idk what you mean that you can’t back it up with substance. that would be that he’s been putting himself on display here with his content early on (votes with little to no attributable reason on me and now aronis), BUT i don’t think that was intentional for him to put himself on display like this early on and thus i’m scumreading him for it because his content is so easy for scum to produce. his AtE’s aren’t even convincing me.

VOTE: profii

[Shoshin]

Hmm, NSG could be scum.

[stungun0404]

What they're saying is that if you were scum there's a lot easier ways to push you and you wouldn't bother going for supplementary details which may end up not being in favor of the narrative you're pushing

But as town you would do the meta analysis

It's not the most rigorous of thinking but it makes sense

i see this now. but this argument definitely isn’t cogent enough to adapt my early stance on him. all of this is attributable to profii-scum too. i’m not thinking he’s someone we should townread right now though, and i tend to be right when i call townreads into question as town, as they typically are scum. so if i’m not following a townread someone puts out, and i call it into question as town, and they can’t back it up with a statement that changes my mind, that players has had a tendency of flipping scum.

suffice it to say, i don’t call that many townreads into serious question.

[stungun0404]

or am i misinterpreting that case as being about profii? cause it wasn’t clear