Open 731: Twin Trap (Game Over)

[Toranaga]

I'm travelling tomorrow anyway so we're resolving my slot tonight. I accept it and am at peace with it. just give me 4-5 hours please.

[Almost50]

Take your time. I'll wait to see what you have to offer.

[Wh4t]

Take your time. I'll wait to see what you have to offer.

Why are so scummy A50?

[Almost50]

Take your time. I'll wait to see what you have to offer.

Why are so scummy A50?

What exactly us scummy about this?

[Wh4t]

Take your time. I'll wait to see what you have to offer.

Why are so scummy A50?

What exactly us scummy about this?

I mean in general. Can you please give some thoughts on Poseidon and Fromage?

[Almost50]

I believe I've given my thought in real time about most everyone. Go ahead and ISO me.

As for being scummy in general: "ain't that the case for me with you like

always

?". Too bad the duck isn't in this game to tell you I'm 100% town here. You should just ISO me in a recent scum game of mine to see the difference (and I don't just mean in what I post, but in what could be the motive behind what I post).

Let me give an example or two:

1- You're pretty much lynchable to me here. Why am I holding back and giving you your space?
2- Tor is @L-1 and I could have hammered, especially since I already said I would if we got a VT claim. Why would I want to wait for him to talk more?

Now you already know I don't play the conventional way everyone expects a player should, neither as Town nor as Scum, so you gotta look deeper not just at what I say but for the reason I say what I say.

[Poseidon]

OPPORTUNISTIC VOTE Simple phrasing and over-analyzing from your end just makes it seem like you're going for the easy target to get eyes off of you, or even Fromage

The timing of this is strange, I already told you I would do this here:

I'll move my vote to VOTE: Fromage but I'd happily move to Manatee once Toranaga confirms he's scum.

So, why is it opportunistic after I change my read of you, rather than when I enter agreeing with the general Manatee scumread?

Not sure how anything I'm doing is taking attention away ftom myself, or why it would make sense to attempt to take attention away from myself when I'm not under any pressure?

The lingering votes on myself from you and Tor give me bad vibes. I don't understand how Tor can say he town reads my slot because of Inferno's replace out and yet keep his vote on me. I don't really understand why Poseidon scumread Inferno?

What's with the aggro hunting, Wh@t? And are you seriously surprised I'm skeptical of your spot after all the Inferno antics?

[Poseidon]

Sorry, quote was old. But I'll reply to it.
You stated that you'd go if they CONFIRM they're scum. But you jumped to an (again) opportunistic "scum slip" when it was really just a matter of simple phrasing that anyone would understand. It's avoiding any potential pressure, not a difficult strategy to see. I still read your slot as scum.

[Eragon]

idk what happened but I completely lost my WIM for this game

[Wh4t]

Preliminary reads:

BuJ is Town
Egg is Town
Manatee likely Town

I stopped paying attention to Inferno's posts already. I would appreciate it if he put Manatee @L-1 though and would state intent myself.

A50 can you help me see what changed your read on manatee between these posts?

[Wh4t]

What's with the aggro hunting, Wh@t? And are you seriously surprised I'm skeptical of your spot after all the Inferno antics?

Well done dodging the questions and taking a chance to throw the shade back at me. I'm pretty happy with my read on you.

[Egg]

There is a simple answer to Almost's two questions but they were directed and wh4t and he ignored them.

[Egg]

At*

[Wh4t]

They looked rhetorical to me?

[Poseidon]

What's with the aggro hunting, Wh@t? And are you seriously surprised I'm skeptical of your spot after all the Inferno antics?

Well done dodging the questions and taking a chance to throw the shade back at me. I'm pretty happy with my read on you.

Refresh my memory. Which question are you referring to?

[Wh4t]

I'm going to let you answer your own question there pal. I
Here's my updated reads based on recent interactions:

{A50, BuJaber, Eragon, GnB}
{Fromage, Egg}
{Toranaga, Poseidon}

Pretty happy with the L-1 and ready to see a flip but I would like to hear Tor's efforting before someone hammers.

[Poseidon]

[Toranaga]

I ended up going out then getting to bed and nothing was read up rip

lynch wh4t tomorrow

I really tried my hardest with the time I had available

:* :* glgl

[Toranaga]

I'm going to let you answer your own question there pal. I
Here's my updated reads based on recent interactions:

{A50, BuJaber, Eragon, GnB}
{Fromage, Egg}
{Toranaga, Poseidon}

Pretty happy with the L-1 and ready to see a flip but I would like to hear Tor's efforting before someone hammers.

"they're wolfreading me so they must be a wolf!"

poseidon's interactions with wh4t are pretty villagery from poseidon's side and if wh4t was even remotely trying to solve the game instead of OMGUSing everyone who scumreads her she'd have picked up on that.

this is openwolfing and it's really really poor effort at that.

[Almost50]

Preliminary reads:

BuJ is Town
Egg is Town
Manatee likely Town

I stopped paying attention to Inferno's posts already. I would appreciate it if he put Manatee @L-1 though and would state intent myself.

A50 can you help me see what changed your read on manatee between these posts?

Well, manatee was "likely" town. Between these two posts he posted only once and it was a one-liner. I felt as if he "holding back" and happy to see the pressure go elsewhere. That and the wagon composition at the time was townie to me.

The reason I asked Inferno -precisely- to put manatee @L-1 is I suspected the two may be partners. I had a couple of scenarios in my mind, and would reevaluate accordingly.

Spoiler: @Wh4t

One of those was for Inferno to refuse to vote manatee (which was the case). It doesn't give me much but it "might" point to Inferno actually being a townie who doesn't SR manatee, or he could be scum with manatee and thinks manatee is the better player of the two.

Another was for Inferno to comply, and that would have been scummy bc he could be Scum trying to redirect the lynch elsewhere.

Then if Inferno voted manatee I would have looked at manatee's reaction. Again, keeping his vote on Inferno wasn't gonna give me much because he is either a townie who SRs Inferno, a Scumster who needs to keep the counterwagon alive, or even a scumster with Inferno who thinks this is the best way to look like they're not partners.

manatee unvoting though would point to them being scum partners and that they decided that manatee is the lynch for some reason, because I don't see town!manatee who was voting a genuine SR in Inferno deciding to unvote when Inferno has just put them @L-1, nor can I see scum!manatee doing that if Inferno is Town.

Suffice it to say things didn't exactly go the way I wished for them to go, and Inferno not voting manatee at that point denied me a chance of developing a better read on both slots.

[Almost50]

I'm not quite sure how to handle the situation with Tor here. I know he doesn't like to play scum, but I don't know if he would give up so easily. It's still safer to just hammer the claimed VT IMHO, but I will wait for everyone else to say they're ready to end the day.

[Almost50]

Also FTR, I don't have meta on Fromage, Burger or Poseidon. My meta reads have Wh4t, Eragon, Egg & BuJ as Town to various degrees of confidence.

[Egg]

I'm not quite sure how to handle the situation with Tor here. I know he doesn't like to play scum, but I don't know if he would give up so easily. It's still safer to just hammer the claimed VT IMHO, but I will wait for everyone else to say they're ready to end the day.

I'm fine with the day ending. My confidence that Tor is scum is dropping some, but in this setup I can see where we just Lynch the VT claim and manatee was scummy so maybe Tor is just better at looking town as scum?

[BuJaber]

He's also better at looking town as town than this.

Though in all honesty I'm voting him because of manatee.

[Almost50]

OK. I'll hammer in 5-6 hours. I think that is fair enough for the rest to come online and say a few words if so they wish or intend to.