Mini 2032: TAZ Mafia: Murder on the Rockport Limited [over]

[Irrelephant11]

for the record I don't remember having any strong read on Gamma or Reck, I'm mostly just responding about RC's slot above

[Irrelephant11]

#awk
When you say "above" and the post is on the last page

Irrelephant? Yes, I can read him. At least I haven't been wrong yet. In two games. Not a large sample size.

But I've read his games as both town and scum and know the difference. I understand all your concerns, because he tends to go with the flow and to sheep a lot more as town in a way that seems opportunistic at times, but the reality is he's usually really lost as town and tends to not know what he's doing whereas he loves to be scum and usually plays much more confidently with a very clear scum agenda. If he were actively leading his own pushes and doing townie things to try make us think he was town, I'd probably have him as null and most everyone else would think he's town, and he'd probably be scum.

Ouch, true

I can read NSG better than you

You said yourself I have never seen your scum game

I don't have a scum game. Like, there's nothing there.

From reading her meta this is true AF
Anyone who isn't hard townreading Shoshin is incorrect

I still say Varsoon is the best lynch today

I mean I'm certainly still interested in it rn

this is xyzzy, your moderator, your best friend, and your chiropractor. your back is all fucked up and I'm gonna fix it!

I love these

Sircakez
Nosferatu

all strong townreads

i don't see either of these

like i don't really scumread either of them but i don't townread either of them either

==

I was gonna like pretend to scumread you or something to keep you alive but I don't think that's a play suitable to this gamestate in hindsight.

so i take it you're townreading her then?

her posts around you saying this feel kinda town too

==

VOTE: Irrelephant
VOTE: Kokichi Oma
VOTE: Gammagooey

i believe this is all 3 scum.

i'm townreading both irrelephant and kokichi

like i'm reading your irrelphant case and you say a lot of words but never it is really convincing or anything; i think his townread of shoshin makes sense and that he'd be willing to sheep her on you for now tbh

==

gamma feels kinda .... hollow to me? that might be a good word. like his posts are there but lack motivation. i realize i'm not explaining what i'm seeing well but i don't know how to articulate this better rn

==

619 is the first actually scummy post i've seen from porkens

actually 630-635 feel kinda townie to me in like a clueless sort of way

he feels kinda like lynchbait and i'm not entirely sure why he's the leading wagon at this point tbh

==

I can't read varsoon because his push on me is fucking gross and I tried to read him via associatives instead.

I can't give a useful read on him.

eh this feels kinda town

==

the way rc is interacting with shoshin on page 28 feels off; kinda like he's pocketing and/or manipulating her into agreeing with his lynch list

==

ok i'm no longer reading reck's posts about rc or rc's posts about reck; reading arguments like this kinda stresses me out

this game feels liek people are holding grudges over games gone by and are taking it out on this game and it's making this game low key not super enjoyable for me

This is actually a really good post
You can be townlean for now

Sus peeps not striked out rn

i didnt tier my list at the start so i can't tier now

xRECKONERx
Gammagooey
Varsoon

skitter30

northsidegal

Kokichi Oma

Irrelephant11

RadiantCowbells

Porkens

Creature

SirCakez
Shoshin

???
mm
Actually
This makes some sense. I guess I just think you should townread Shoshin more. And maybe SirCakez.

this might seem really unfair to skitter but the fact that she's pushed on all of my scumreads makes me think that she's a lot more likely to be scum bussing
I also haven't gotten any of those ~town vibes~ that I'm supposed to have from her by now.

but I"m not explicitly feeling her as scum either, so that's something?

Really? I kind of understand the ~vibes~ thing but that's also kind of a parrot of Shoshin from earlygame and also the above skitter post is pretty towny
annnnnd I'm responding to a player that isn't here. Well, anyway.

Shoshin, stop pushing the line that I'm scumreading Kokichi for play I was making--that's a gross misrepresentation of both my reasons for having an early scumread there, my reasons for loudly pushing it, and the reality of my situation not even being the same as Kokichi's. You getting hung up on a lie of a detail is clouding your judgment and keeping you from moving on to form much better reads than an incorrect scumread on me.

I thought I was "honest town" but now I'm a liar? And you're still not scumeading me?

RC, please lynch this.

Shoshin, I have yet to do this myself, but out of curiosity have you re-read all of your interactions with Varsoon? Just wondering if this is mostly misunderstanding. Like I don't townread Varsoon but I do also stand by my earlier guess that he might just be in the lynchbait spot. I'm townreading you lots so you're not the scum here but is it possible it's just playstyle differences?
Feel free to say no just want to see you talk/think about him in a different way and see if the read holds

this might seem really unfair to skitter but the fact that she's pushed on all of my scumreads makes me think that she's a lot more likely to be scum bussing
I also haven't gotten any of those ~town vibes~ that I'm supposed to have from her by now.

but I"m not explicitly feeling her as scum either, so that's something?

1. You had me in your list of townreads earlier so you're going to have to explain how you went from townreading me to not having 'gotten any of those ~town vibes~ that you're supposed to have from me by now'

2. I play mafia by looking at a given scenario and aggregating similar scenarios ive seen in the past in order to try to figure out if things are more likely to come feom town or scum. A few months back i played a game with scum!you where you picked a fight with someone i look up to in order to get him mislynched and to create a gamestate where you can manipulate people; you got me to mislynch math, pressure the cop to out for you by pocketing me, and mislynch someone else for you after you were dead. That game makes me very, very wary about you and your abiliity to manipulate me; i dont think i can confidently read or trust you after that. I dont think its fair of you to complain that your playstyle makes me scumread you when you created this dynamic by what you did in that game; its not like this is something im pulling out of thin air

3. I deal with anxiety irl and i have a lot of trouble dealing with interpersonal conflict for a variety of reasons; it stresses me out a lot and it's not something i can process or handle easily, even when im not directly involved. Within the context of a game its fine but when things get personal it messes with my ability to process what's happening and i kinda get stuck on the conflict; your arguments with varsoon and reck are tilting me out of being able to read this game and both you and reck. Its making this game unenjoyable for me. Im trying to get past it but atm i cant read u or reck and so im trying to figure out what to do about it. Reck's gone so i think i want to start with a replacement anew; i wanted to do that with u but you're here so i can't do that. The best way i think i can resolve u is to sheep people i trust who i think can read you but im not confident enough to do that just yet; i dont trust enough people that strongly atm

Agreeing to lynch reck (who i cant read right now) on your request (who i cant read right now) is idiotic and like the dumbest thing i can do this game, no matter how pissed it makes you or the fact that it seems to make you retaliatory scumread me

This also seems like town skitter
Though I wonder if that's because she's finally passionate about the game because she has to defend herself
Probably not, simpler answer is skitter is town, which I think I'm going to settle on for the game day

I'm back? Cool.

Let me try to figure out what I think of each slot from memory, with the caveat that I've been hurricane drunk for the entirety of this game so bear with me:

Gamma: Hasn't interacted w/ me much, in fact has only mentioned me a couple of times in passing while interacting w/ other people, trying to avoid me?
Varsoon: successfully navigated to my D1 blind spot so not gonna worry about him right now
skitter: pinging me as scum tbh. all posting just feels super noncommittal and fencesitty.
northsidegal: Honestly IDK how to read her. I think there was a game where I just read her incorrectly for like 70% of the game until the last second.
Kokichi: lots of attacks on people with cool adjectives instead of cool logic and reasoning. dislike. maybe scum.
Irrelephant: null. i feel nothing from their posts.
RC: scum who is trying to emulate what RC thinks he's like as town when in actuality he's just ringing as hollow and empty and overkill. very similar to team mafia play.
Porkens: idfk man. a whole pile of nothingness so far. need content.
Nosferatu: ill be honest i dont recall any posts that nosferatu has made so far
Creature: uhhh i remember early few pages of creature posting looked good? then i kinda havent paid attention since then
SirCakez: see nosferatu
Shoshin: Generally Competent Posting (tm)

Okay well now hopefully I can contribute more than this garbage readslist but I really really don't have time to go back and reread so if there's something people want me to address specifically I'd be happy to otherwise yippee ki yay let's play some mafia

I'd like to see you do more work to sort nsg/varsoon/kokichi and the thought processes that get you there. Even if the end result is the same as the above

VOTE: varsoon

porkens is town and if we keep votes on him hes gonna do something dumb o/

I don't really understand your play here this game
I'm gonna ISO you later but for now - why Varsoon?
And why is Porkens town?

Hehe

Glad I stood out of this game for a while

right same

Did abselephant do anything?

why do you keep calling me out though

Serious, though, what's up with this wack game momentum?
We've been playing a whole week and the largest thing to happen so far was my push and the interactions that came out of that.
Why isn't anyone else making waves?
I know scum are very likely to try to sit back and play their cards close to their chest due to the mechanical systems at play and because I'm town but damn

I mean the wack game momentum was definitely do to most players going "personal attacks are getting personal everyone hang on to somethinggg"
I have no clue what your reads are and maybe that's my fault but I feel like it's yours?
I just ISO'd you to see if that statement was fair and my analysis is "mostly, yeah" though I did forget your very clearly stated scumread of RC
But like, who's town? You've referenced "obvious town" that others "still think are scum". Who's that?

[Irrelephant11]

nosferatu's ISO is somethinggg. I'm not sure what.
kokichi's ISO isn't as towny as I remembered
Reck annoys me a little and has given v little AI content outside of the policy vote & argument with RC but hopefully both those things will change soon
Gammagooey's ISO is actually mostly crap (no offense)

Let's see, off the top of my head, reads are

Shoshin
creature
nsg
skitter
sircakez
kokichi
nosferatu
Gamma E
Porkens
Varsoon
Reck
Gamma G

Players are not equidistant, there's like a gap after NSG and another after Gamma E

which is weirdly close to RC's reads so maybe he was town after all
Or
orrrrr
Let's lynch skitter

[skitter30]

VOTE: varsoon

porkens is town and if we keep votes on him hes gonna do something dumb o/

i kinda think varsoon is town tbh

==

Serious, though, what's up with this wack game momentum?
We've been playing a whole week and the largest thing to happen so far was my push and the interactions that came out of that.
Why isn't anyone else making waves?
I know scum are very likely to try to sit back and play their cards close to their chest due to the mechanical systems at play and because I'm town but damn

ye gamestate is kinda funky right now and very ... quiescent. the lolporkens wagon kinda indicates that he might be town; there wasn't any resistance to it; gamestate around your wagon is kinda murky for me and i'm having trouble reading it

==

hi ge

==

I also have a theory it might have cute interactions with self-targeting effects, but that's kinda NAI.

i hadn't thought about it that way till you said this, but yeah this is a thing

i was also thinking that depending on the composition of hte scumteam i could see scum bussing to get some gold to spend on fantasy costco stuff; like if porkens was scum or something

==

I want to be wrong but something about you feels more mechanical than usual
Also I'm a little surprised you find me easy to read now
Also I'm bad at reading you so we'll see where this goes

i'm having a hard time getting into this game

the things that i was scumreading you for in american presidents mafia (the sheeping, oppurtunistic votes, the fluffiness, the unsureness) i now recognize to be part of your towngame + i'm very confident shoshin is town and she's independently saying the same thing so overall i feel pretty good about this for now

+ like rc made a case on you and none of it was very convincing and it felt like he was looking for things to scumread you over; like he made a whole case and none of the things he was saying really made me think you were scummy even though he pulling out behaviors he thought was scummy; i just dont' really see it right now

idk why are you surprised i'm finding you easy to read?

==

This is actually a really good post
You can be townlean for now

why was that a really good post?

==

Shoshin, I have yet to do this myself, but out of curiosity have you re-read all of your interactions with Varsoon? Just wondering if this is mostly misunderstanding.

Like I don't townread Varsoon but I do also stand by my earlier guess that he might just be in the lynchbait spot

. I'm townreading you lots so you're not the scum here but is it possible it's just playstyle differences?

she gets kinda tunneled sometimes and i agree that this might be happening rn

bolded + below quote is an odd juxtoposition:

I still say Varsoon is the best lynch today

I mean I'm certainly still interested in it rn

==

I'd like to see you do more work to sort nsg/varsoon/kokichi and the thought processes that get you there. Even if the end result is the same as the above

this feels like busywork

==

irrel if you're scum with town!shoshin how do you interact with her?

[Irrelephant11]

I have no clue but probably I try real hard to interact with her exactly like I have this game, it seems to have gotten me a townread from her

I don't understand why I can't say that Varsoon is scummy and lynchbaity - they're two different ways to describe the same thing and the latter is just more accurate if I think he happens to flip green in the end. Like I have little to townread him for, there's clearly interest and (admittedly better than my own, since I've been somewhat absent) reasoning from other townies in lynching him, and yet the gamestate is in such a weird state (and kind of has been since game start) that I'm paranoid about his lynch. All of those are true.

I'm surprised you find me easy to read because you reallllly didn't in American Presidents but also I guess those reasons make sense as to why

Um do you look at that Reck readslist and understand why he said what he did about nsg, varsoon, or kokichi? I understand some of his other reads but I want to know his reasoning there and even if it doesn't change anything when he thinks about it again I'll be able to tell better if he's faking those reads for an agenda or really feels that way
Actually, why discredit that question as "busywork"? That's a super normal request and I'm annoyed you made me feel defensive about it

I'll respond about "really good post" in a minute, will require its own post

[SirCakez]

Do you think shoshin's points against varsoon hold any water?

I see the argument and am mostly skimming it now...

Kinda but I don't think it means Vars is scum.

[Irrelephant11]

Sircakez
Nosferatu

all strong townreads

i don't see either of these

like i don't really scumread either of them but i don't townread either of them either

==

I was gonna like pretend to scumread you or something to keep you alive but I don't think that's a play suitable to this gamestate in hindsight.

so i take it you're townreading her then?

her posts around you saying this feel kinda town too

==

VOTE: Irrelephant
VOTE: Kokichi Oma
VOTE: Gammagooey

i believe this is all 3 scum.

i'm townreading both irrelephant and kokichi

like i'm reading your irrelphant case and you say a lot of words but never it is really convincing or anything; i think his townread of shoshin makes sense and that he'd be willing to sheep her on you for now tbh

==

gamma feels kinda .... hollow to me? that might be a good word. like his posts are there but lack motivation. i realize i'm not explaining what i'm seeing well but i don't know how to articulate this better rn

==

619 is the first actually scummy post i've seen from porkens

actually 630-635 feel kinda townie to me in like a clueless sort of way

he feels kinda like lynchbait and i'm not entirely sure why he's the leading wagon at this point tbh

==

I can't read varsoon because his push on me is fucking gross and I tried to read him via associatives instead.

I can't give a useful read on him.

eh this feels kinda town

==

the way rc is interacting with shoshin on page 28 feels off; kinda like he's pocketing and/or manipulating her into agreeing with his lynch list

==

ok i'm no longer reading reck's posts about rc or rc's posts about reck; reading arguments like this kinda stresses me out

this game feels liek people are holding grudges over games gone by and are taking it out on this game and it's making this game low key not super enjoyable for me

This is a great post because
1 Agreed that nosferatu and sircakez are hard to sort (doesn't feel like random shade throwing)
2 I had the same thought process around RC flipping on nsg: "oh so it's a townread?? Well, I actually agree"
3 If you're scum good job pocketing me; I also thought his case on me was weak
4 I felt this about Gamma but

more importantly

, I felt this about

yo

u until you got bold enough to call it out in someone else.
5 Yeah like what?? I saw a vc with Porkens in the lead and was like "wait, who even voted him? When? Why? I don't get him being the lead wagon, esp. with both RC and Shoshin doing their darndest to pull votes onto two scummier players"
... Well actually I disagree with you about RC feeling towny in that post, but
6 I think this seems like genuine paranoia about an RC scum agenda here

So, to summarize, it's mostly mindmeld. But I really liked the moment where you called out someone else for feeling hollow because I think scum skitter who has been called out as feeling "off" would know that trying to get in a mislynch on someone for feeling "off" will set a precedent that draws attention to herself (especially in a game with Shoshin), not to mention it's just true about Gamma.

[skitter30]

i'm starting to become a little bit nervous that you might be trying to pocket shoshin

scummy != lynchbait-y exactly; they aren't quite the same thing. lynchbait-y, at least to me, connotes that you think the person is behaving in a scummy fashion that might get them lynched but *that you think that they're town anyways despite that*. to call someone potential lynchbait to me means that you think that they might be town despite acting in a scummy fashion, so being willing to lynch someone you're saying may be lynchbait is kinda ??? to me because it seems to be like you're willing to lynch someone you think may be town

i guess your'e not working off of quite the same definition as me? but

they're two different ways to describe the same thing

and the latter is just more accurate if I think he happens to flip green in the end

feels kinda strange? can you elaborate what you mean by this?

Um do you look at that Reck readslist and understand why he said what he did about nsg, varsoon, or kokichi? I understand some of his other reads but I want to know his reasoning there and even if it doesn't change anything when he thinks about it again I'll be able to tell better if he's faking those reads for an agenda or really feels that way
Actually, why discredit that question as "busywork"? That's a super normal request and I'm annoyed you made me feel defensive about it

he said he doesn't think he can read nsg or varsoon rn; kokichi might be scum

I'd like to see you do more work to sort nsg/varsoon/kokichi and the thought processes that get you there.

Even if the end result is the same as the above

this is pinging me tho; i think it's the bolded at the end; like it sounds like you're asking him to put in effort to resort them but coming to the same conclusion (can't read two of them and kokichi might scum) is fine? idk it feels like a strange request to me. not like you asking is busy work but kinda like you're ok with him putting in effort to not come to a new conclusion if that makes sense?

none of his reads are particularly impressive imo so idk why you picked out these three people either; like there's *a lot* of people he's saying he's null on or can't read

[Irrelephant11]

this is xyzzy, your moderator, your best friend, and Earth's last hope. I'm gonna negotiate with these aliens and then I'm gonna save the planet!

votecount 1.14

5 players voting for Porkens (Gammagooey, Creature, SirCakez, northsidegal, Nosferatu)

3 players voting for RadiantCowbells (xRECKONERx, xRECKONERx, Varsoon)
3 players voting for Varsoon (Shoshin, Kokichi Oma, Irrelephant11)
1 player voting for Irrelephant11 (RadiantCowbells)

2 players not voting for lynch (skitter30, Porkens)

with 14 votes, it takes 8 to lynch.

3 players voting for Shoshin for Fantasy Gachapon (Irrelephant11, Gammagooey, skitter30)
2 players voting for xRECKONERx for Fantasy Gachapon (Varsoon, xRECKONERx)
1 player voting for Kokichi Oma for Fantasy Gachapon (Kokichi Oma)
1 player voting for RadiantCowbells for Fantasy Gachapon (Shoshin)

6 players not voting for Fantasy Gachapon (northsidegal, RadiantCowbells, Porkens, Nosferatu, Creature, SirCakez)

the current day will end in (expired on 2018-09-24 17:00:00).

mod notes: I interpreted 576 as a vote for Gammagooey -- in theory, the other votes existed for a bit, but because neither of them ended the day, they don't affect anything.

The underlined wagon is extremely notable to me
Willing to bet there's 1 if not 2 scum in {Porkens, Gamma G, Nosferatu}

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: Gammagooey

[Irrelephant11]

oh sorry skitter I missed your post somehow

[Irrelephant11]

I guess in my mind "lynchbait" means "scummy, but the way it's so easy to wagon them/the way others treat them makes me wonder if they're town despite the fact that they seem scummy"
So there's no contradiction in my head to say I find varsoon both scummy and lynchbaity and I've been confused why others think there is. I know that, in the end, he can't be both scum and lynchbait. But I can't tell which it is and part of my interest in flipping him would be to find out ("interest" in the literal "it would be interesting" sense)

Also you're getting caught up on word choice (this is a fun reversal of roles for us): I am simply asking Reck to 1) elaborate and 2) try to come to a firmer read. It will help me read him and it will help me read them, so it's certainly not just busywork.

[Gamma Emerald]

What are the consensus scumreads and why? While I intend to read it’ll be a while and I don’t want to be dead weight rn

[Irrelephant11]

ummm varsoon, porkens, reck, and your slot have had most of the attention in terms of votes

[Irrelephant11]

might have missed some other small wagons or misremembered but I've been a lil absent so maybe I'm the wrong person to answer

[Irrelephant11]

'm starting to become a little bit nervous that you might be trying to pocket shoshin

also while I appreciate what this says about my scumgame I think you know shoshin doesn't get pocketed this quickly or easily

[skitter30]

I guess in my mind "lynchbait" means "scummy, but the way it's so easy to wagon them/the way others treat them makes me wonder if they're town despite the fact that they seem scummy"
So there's no contradiction in my head to say I find varsoon both scummy and lynchbaity and I've been confused why others think there is. I know that, in the end, he can't be both scum and lynchbait. But I can't tell which it is and part of my interest in flipping him would be to find out ("interest" in the literal "it would be interesting" sense)

Also you're getting caught up on word choice (this is a fun reversal of roles for us): I am simply asking Reck to 1) elaborate and 2) try to come to a firmer read. It will help me read him and it will help me read them, so it's certainly not just busywork.

yeah i guess it's possible that i'm getting caught up in word choice, but idk i feel more caution wagoning somebody i think is lynchbait because i'm aware of the possibility that they may be town so i guess it's bothering me that you don't seem to have that sort of caution

[Irrelephant11]

I'm voting Gammagooey?
though I guess you could paranoia read me as lying about not seeing your post, finding a reason to switch wagons, and THEN responding to you?

lol

[Varsoon]

I'd really like if we could talk about other things, but, obviously, I'm a bit biased when it comes to that.

That said, Cakez, who do you think is a good lynch? What are your general thoughts on the game?
I haven't really heard much from you that's stuck with me.

I have a big pool of null and then a few townreads (RC slot, you, Shoshin, Irrel) and a few scumreads (Gammagooery and Porkens). P much everyone else null. I guess Reck is a little scummy but it could also just be anger at RC that I'm reading wrong.

But who do you think is a

good lynch

?
Not just in terms of likeliness to flip scum, but also in terms of information it'd provide.

Also I'm curious about your general thoughts on the

game

, not just the playerlist.
What do you make of the initial setup talk and jockeying for Gacha?
What do you think of the exchanges between me, RC, Kokichi, Reck, etc.? I can kinda parse what reads you've come to but not entirely how you've come to them.
What do you think is keeping people from being more proactive/engaged?

To be real, I seriously expected a lot more content from you and NSG when I first looked at this playerlist.

[Varsoon]

I have no clue what your reads are and maybe that's my fault but I feel like it's yours?
I just ISO'd you to see if that statement was fair and my analysis is "mostly, yeah" though I did forget your very clearly stated scumread of RC
But like, who's town? You've referenced "obvious town" that others "still think are scum". Who's that?

Reck's town and people are still leaning him scum even in the last 5 pages.
I've waffled a lot on Porkens, though he seems like a low-hanging scumread that's easy to get away with which is why I feel he's in that position in a lot of people's reads.
Shoshin's also town but I don't really see many people scumreading that slot.

There's also clearly me, and people are pretty outspoken about how I must be scum, but I've got a bit of bias when it comes to how obvious my alignment is.

[skitter30]

@irrel:

sorry i'm not following what you're trying to say; i'm not entirely sure what your gamma vote has to do with your caution or lack thereof regarding varsoon

[Irrelephant11]

You want me to be more cautious of lynching varsoon
I'm not currently voting varsoon
How could I be more cautious

[Creature]

Hey look at me I'm lurking

[Creature]

tf

I knew Irrel had some volumous posts, but not that huge.

[Creature]

Also tf

I'm receiving townreads too easily.