Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[CheekyTeeky]

3p slips which IIRC I was (also) the only one reading it correctly. so bless me and sucks to be not me.

You said she was the towniest player here. Seeing her as town is not the same as seeing her as 3p, in fact seeing her as scum is probably closer to a 3p role as they do not share the same wincon as town. If you're talking about noticing her crumbing, you weren't the only one to notice.

[CheekyTeeky]

Him* sorry Jay.

[CheekyTeeky]

"tor is scum because I was once scum and townread a 3p"

:thonking:

-tor

Yeah ok reduce my reasoning down to this.

[Elsa Jay]

Lol at this point it doesn't matter, Cheeky.

Elsa the personality you all like is female. Jay the person is a male. I don't mind either.

[Jingle]

Spoiler: Okay, I think we've rounded up all the sheep so it's time for the reasoning.

If he was only 1 person I'd be pushing for a hammer already because town or scum flip there is 1000% guarantee scum are on this wagon. But I want to wait for drixx.

Though to be fair hammer here would be a scum claim so L-1 is tempting... but maybe scum still sacrifice themselves for the quickhammer.

First of all: L-1 is tempting because quick hammering would be a scumclaim. On the other hand, maybe scum will do that. So I'm not going to vote here.

This completely ignores the possibility that RR might be scum. This literally says you are not going to vote so that scum won't scumclaim.

This is not logic. This is pretty much anti logic. It's a bunch of words that contort your back worse than a Liefield-drawn woman to justify staying off of the wagon. The post you quote here was also a content post that you don't analyze at all and instead question why cerbs didn't sign it, as though that has any relevance on alignment.

And the stance you take? Holy shit, the stance here. There are scum in ~1/2 of the player list. That's your stance? And while taking this stance, the mental gymnastics to keep yourself out of that list? I would lynch your slot with the white hot intensity of 1000 burning suns for this post alone.

All I know is that I have a vague non-case on him. I'm sorting people by PoE. It's how I usually approach day 1.

He was part of what I consider a conversation that was far too long for imo measly returns. (Elsa discussion)

And now he is getting flashwagoned and I need to see him flip so I know if I'm looking for scum bussing or scum lynching town among the pool of his voters.

So for me it's not that I'm interested in lynching RR specifically, just more of an opportunity to progress the game in a guaranteed positive way.

Not all lynches are equal in their value. This is a pretty valuable lynch.

Pedit: that deserves its own post

Again. RR is suspicious because he was part of thread inflation. I don't scumread RR. I want RR to flip because it's an information lynch. The passive support of this lynch while distancing yourself from it is so bad that I might just cry.

Micro was an exaggeration point was to say I expect more active posters than what we have for a large game.

The thread is not active enough. Despite the fact that half of your content posts have been complaining about how people were talking too much and were probably scum inflating the thread.

Can we wagon Tora? I have a good reason.

~D

What is it?

IMO we should let the argument resolve itself naturally. They're both good at scum and using AtE. It's easier to sort them while they fight than when they're not.

If one of you guys feels it's too much replace out for your health and benefit. But I for one am rooting for the argument to continue.


Pedit : guess I'm too late

Remember when Bujaber told us that scum were probably fine with sitting back and letting RC and Tora argue? Pepperidge Farms remembers.

And who the fuck can possibly think "Oh, RC is getting into a heated argument. The most protown thing to do here is to let him get past the point of no return without trying to defuse the thread. You know, the point where RC either gets fed up and replaces out or gets fed up and turns the thread into a toxic shithole? That point? The point where no one wants to read the thread and scum can coast to an easy victory after nightkilling anyone who even attempts to get the cohesion back?"

Well, maybe, Bujaber just doesn't know RC very well.

I think I can read RC fairly well.
I can probably read RC better.
I don't think their argument was TvT. I think your slot is scum and Tora's is town.

Oh.

Let's lynch RC and when he flips scum we can lynch one of the Tora voters.

Plenty of reasons to scumread RC, and yet he gets pissed off at Tora specifically after he scumreads. Dude knew he could get him to argue.

RC claimed scum. Policy lynchable.

Then he pressed Tora until he engaged him in a fight.

Then when Tora replaced out he did. Because he would have lost the empathy votes.

So... As long as RC and Tora are both here to fight, you want to make them fight for reads. When one replaces out, lynching that slot becomes a priority.

And your reasoning?

RC claimed scum in RVS. Which is the most NAI excuse for a reason in the world in this era of mafia.
RC pressed someone until they fought. And in other news, water is wet.
RC replaced out because he would have lost empathy votes. This, literally, is an accusation of cheating.

And all of this demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of the person RC is. Anyone with any amount of experience can tell you that RC thought he could win that fight.

And yet, you supposedly have enough experience to be confident in your ability to read him.

Worse still, there has been no attempt to engage with/sort/lynch/draw associatives from Chara, but you still scumread them.

[McMenno]

any random group of four is going to have scum more likely than not unless you believe there to be less than four scum so I don't think it's a very meaningful statement anyway

Thanks for reducing all my work to a 'random group of four'.

I'm just saying that saying that "this group of four probably has scum in it" is about as useful as rolling dice. you said you think toog and chara are scum. do you think cheeky and elsa are not scum?

also, you said that "If you guys still refuse to see how RC/Chara slot is questionable at best, let's lynch Toog instead. Consider my vote on both" and then you vote chara instead. why?

[Jingle]

Lol at this point it doesn't matter, Cheeky.

Elsa the personality you all like is female. Jay the person is a male. I don't mind either.

Eh. I think it's fair to say that most of us like both Jay and Elsa

[Jingle]

I'm just saying that saying that "this group of four probably has scum in it" is about as useful as rolling dice.

Assuming 4 scum, there is an ~30% chance of randomly choosing 4 non scum out of 17 players.

[Elsa Jay]

I'm just saying that saying that "this group of four probably has scum in it" is about as useful as rolling dice.

Assuming 4 scum, there is an ~30% chance of randomly choosing 4 non scum out of 17 players.

With the killing mechanics in place, I assume scum have atleast 4 members since they can only lose 2 a cycle like town. That mechanic helps everyone.

I also think it may be 3/4 3p then? That sounds like a stretch but I'm going under the assumption that only 2 3p can die a cycle as well.

4 scum + 3/4 3rd party + 9/10 (over half) townies? That means at the very least, 3p have 2 others in hiding.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

3p slips which IIRC I was (also) the only one reading it correctly. so bless me and sucks to be not me.

You said she was the towniest player here. Seeing her as town is not the same as seeing her as 3p, in fact seeing her as scum is probably closer to a 3p role as they do not share the same wincon as town. If you're talking about noticing her crumbing, you weren't the only one to notice.

lone 3p behaves like town. that's why everyone was townreading NSG. even a lone wolf sounds towny. if you're scumreading lone 3p, unless they're slipping, you're reading into things that aren't different to how people behave as town pr. these things depend a little on community and setting etc but you can't really catch 3p by anything that makes people objectively scummy in a game, at least until scum is reduced to the point of 3p hunting being relevant, and the 3p can no longer genuinely hunt.

I was the only one saying she was crumbling 3p or the first to suggest it. other people were scumreading elsa for talking about multiball, which I didn't think was AI at the time because of his explanation, but later when he used the word "Neutral" and win with majority etc it became a real softclaim.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

"tor is scum because I was once scum and townread a 3p"

:thonking:

-tor

Yeah ok reduce my reasoning down to this.

Which leads me to expand on why Tor townreading you (Elsa) early was scummy.

From a scum POV as far as he's concerned you're not on his team so the first assumption is that you're town. I already laid out my reasons early game about why it was difficult to see you as towny. In Be Yourself Mafia I was scum and NSG was 3p so although people who read her consistently well were scumreading her, I was biased to see her as townie because I knew she wasn't scum. I feel like that's pretty much exactly what happened to produce Tor's early townread on you.

am I wrong though? I read it 2 other times now and it's exactly what you're saying.

-tor

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

oh so people were NOT townreading nsg as 3p in a game. alright. my experience with lone 3p is that they're mostly unparseable from town until late in the game, but I guess NSG is not like that.

-tor

[McMenno]

I'm just saying that saying that "this group of four probably has scum in it" is about as useful as rolling dice.

Assuming 4 scum, there is an ~30% chance of randomly choosing 4 non scum out of 17 players.

With the killing mechanics in place, I assume scum have atleast 4 members since they can only lose 2 a cycle like town. That mechanic helps everyone.

I also think it may be 3/4 3p then? That sounds like a stretch but I'm going under the assumption that only 2 3p can die a cycle as well.

4 scum + 3/4 3rd party + 9/10 (over half) townies? That means at the very least, 3p have 2 others in hiding.

I can't imagine there being more than 2 third parties. your assumption of 10 townies doesn't sound very balanced for town in a 17 player game.

[Elsa Jay]

With the multiple implied forms of killings, and town only being able to lose 2 members a cycle? With 3rd parties screwing over town AND Scum?

Seems possible.

[McMenno]

well, the game ends when either town or "all threats to town" are eliminated, right? so that doesn't leave much room for 3ps other than survivours or serial killers. and if there's scum with killing powers then I can't really see more than one sk. you claimed survivour, right? do you think it's likely that there is another survivour?

[McMenno]

and by the way, did you receive any flavour as a third party?

[Elsa Jay]

No flavor, just my abilities and their description. Thats Why I said scum don't have any flavor either, or mentioned the town wincon before Almost posted the sample PM.

Notice I also say "scum" instead of mafia or anything similar because I have no idea what the scum team is called.

[Toogeloo]

Scum is the combined anti town element.
Mafia is a team.

[Elsa Jay]

Scum is the combined anti town element.
Mafia is a team.

That's one way to say it, but I meant the team's actual name in the flavor. And aren't Scum/Mafia/Werewolf usually used interchangeably when they apply?

Does anyone know the name of the flavor of 'Mafia' we're dealing with?

[Thor665]

Tor popped out his meta on me by just linking the game and not actually describing differences he saw.
I dismissed it heartily and with a few notes.
He avoided responding.

Much like how the Nancy Drew head claimed meta awareness of me, was challenged on it, and then avoided me.

Does anyone actually townread the slot?
If so - can you justify this behavior in a pro town manner? They're basically claiming meta and defending it like gut without being honest enough to admit it's a gut read.
Makes me think it's a strategic read.

[TPFKAP]

Lol at this point it doesn't matter, Cheeky.

Elsa the personality you all like is female. Jay the person is a male. I don't mind either.

this is scum

[Elsa Jay]

Lol at this point it doesn't matter, Cheeky.

Elsa the personality you all like is female. Jay the person is a male. I don't mind either.

this is scum

We've been over this since the last time you accused me of being scum and voting me.

Have You forgotten your own actions thus far this game?

If you want me to say I'm Neutral Doctor for like the 70th time, be my guess. I'd prefer if you read the game though.

[Thor665]

I'm still very happy people have explained to me how townish TPFKAP is - otherwise I would still be finding evrything they do to scream 'scummy' and 'optimal lynch target'.

[Thor665]

At least he's not active lurking because he's posting - thank heavens someone explained that new definition to me while acting like my play is questionable this game while they hard defend that slot.

[Elsa Jay]

I'm still very happy people have explained to me how townish TPFKAP is - otherwise I would still be finding evrything they do to scream 'scummy' and 'optimal lynch target'.

At least he's not active lurking because he's posting - thank heavens someone explained that new definition to me while acting like my play is questionable this game while they hard defend that slot.

ALERT! ALERT! ALERT! SARCASM DETECTED!

ALERT! ALERT! ALERT! SARCASM DETECTED!

THIS IS NOT A DRILL. REPORT TO DESIGNATED AREAS. THIS IS NOT A DRILL. REPORT TO DESIGNATED AREAS.

PRAYER TO WHATEVER LORD YOU PRAY TOO AND KISS YOUR ASS GOODBYE, PORKENS.

YOU BROUGHT DOWN THE HAMMER.

VOTE: TPFKAP