Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[Elsa Jay]

-snip -

thanks Elsa. that's what i meant.
and yes you get a special box for a 3p i don't know the wincon of. <3

I believe I've said I want to live multiple times. But keeping that doubt keeps you alive, so that's good.

[Flicker]

I also feel a little nervous trusting everyone off-wagon not to quickhammer once the next VC is posted, but I gotta go to bed.

[Elsa Jay]

Toog already unvoted and North voted you. Trust me when I say there's probably not gonna be a quickhammer.

Unless You did it of course. In which case your gunna die day 2 or night 1.

[Almost50]

Just so I don't keep you all waiting

Firefly/Serenity D1 VC #?

No Hammer

Day 1 ongoing

VC#?

TPFKAP (6): Thor665, Gamma Emerald, Elsa Jay, CheekyTeeky, BuJaber, Jingle

BuJaber (4): McMenno, Chickadee, Chara, Toogeloo
Flicker (2): Reasonably Rational, northsidegal
NicoRobin (2): Malakittens TPFKAP
Reasonably Rational (1): NicoRobin
Malakittens (1): Nancy Drew Shogunate


Not Voting: Flicker

Deadline (expired on 2018-10-16 02:00:00)

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Given the two wagon options i would always vote tpfkap over bujaber here, given a slight townread on bujaber and a slight scumread on tpfkap (i think even if she was still messing around a lot she would still make some attempt at being useful or gamesolving if town here)

on a separate note, having reviewed flicker's iso since my last real time to sit down and read the thread i'm still unconvinced that she's town and her role does nothing to change my opinion on that front. apart from that i'm somewhat lost when it comes to scumreads. looking through my notes and my existing townreads, although i don't have it all organized preliminarily if i were to assume i was right on all of them i would end up with mostly lurkers and oft-mislynched players in my PoE. that's not necessarily impossible, although it might be cause for alarm.

I think i was townreading skygazer before and i think that was a mistake. That's not any sort of comment on McMenno's play, just some self-reflection which should hopefully be useful to look back on.

oh

i think nancy drew / tor are probably scum.

that's a bridge that i'll cross when i get there, i guess (which is to say, probably not today).

anyways
VOTE: tpfkap

oops, meant to do this in one of my earlier posts. just bookmarking this quote, quite mysteriously.

Spoiler:

If you beleive it Tor, we'd like to confirm it's true. Your vote now lets her prove herself as Priest with the non Self-Hammer.

Vote her to confirm her. Any unvotes on her is scum who dont want her to prove her role.

Seriously, who makes up priest? I hadn’t even heard of that role before her claim?

Not opposed but doubt she’s lying about that.

~N

I dislike your reads on both Skygazer but especially Flicker and it seems your sr us for our hard Flicker defense. I’m currently nullreading TPKAF but I think I need to sort you before I reconsider my vote. I know I don’t want to vote Bujabber today.

~ Nancy

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Since TPFKAP is getting close to L-1, and I can't prove my role if I'm on the wagon before the hammer, I'll unvote for now.

UNVOTE:

I'm willing to switch votes with someone else to get the lynch through after that, though, so consider TPFKAP to functionally still be at L-2.

NSG , why are you still scumreading this slot?

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

When the RR votes were piling on I was flip flopping on RR, townreading him for reasons, scumreading him for others, trying to sort him through other ways like watching their interactions with others and engaging him myself. I was considering lynching them for the flip and to have a wagon we can lynch one of in d2 as votes piling on that quickly indicated scum on the wagon. Whether it was for bussing or to lynch a townie. But I wasn't sure if I really scumread them.

Except he wasn't. He was scumreading RR. Or rather, he expressed no townread or reasoning for a townread of RR prior to 605, where he has a read full of Nothing. 488 is when he expresses tacit approval of the wagon while not voting it.

1. Okay that point is clearer now. The difference being I was strongly suspecting the fight was TvS even before they started fighting. So the fight inflating the thread would by definition be caused by scum. Which is my original point about the inflation. Inflation doesn't happen because scum post nonsense by themselves. Inflation happens because scum continue or start converations about things that are not game-related.

Things like whether to policy lynch or how Tora vs RC you're an asshole rabble rabble rabble. Which, again, Buj was more than happy to let continue.

I didn't pick the names randomly.. I picked the names based on the fact that I find it extremely unlikely that 4 townies had the same read on a player being wagoned, then had the same change of heart, then had the same read on another player being wagoned, then had the same change of heart.

It is unlikely that 4 townies read RR as scummy and backed down and then later read Flicker as scummy and then backed down. Coincidentally, Buj thought RR's behavior was scummy, but decided he was town. And also Buj thought Flicker's behavior was scummy, but decided she was town.

And I'm curious.. if I had voted both of them.. do you honestly expect me to put myself in my own scum pool?

Nope no problems here. "Just because I match the profile of my scumpool, doesn't mean I should be in my scum pool." Is totally the issue. It's not "I match the profile of my scumpool, and thus there's something seriously wrong with my train of thought." You know, the town reaction to have to the realization that your scumpool is literally players behaving very similarly to yourself. The reaction Buj totally didn't have.

Hmmm . . . I liked his “intersect” post though. \_0_/

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Votes on RR right now page 20:

Toogeloo, Tora, Cheeky, tw, Nico, Elsa -- L-3
RC voted and unvoted.

Pedit : add Thor to that

Set of people who joined RR wagon: {Toog, Tora, Cheeky, TW, Nico, Elsa, RC, Thor}

Set of people who joined flicker wagon: {nsg, Chick, RR, cheeky, Chara, Elsa, me, Toog}

Intersect: {Toog, Cheeky, RC/Chara, Elsa}

Definitely scum among the intersect.
Doesn't mean everyone else on the wagons is town but there's scum here for sure.
Besides this list will be helpful again with RR/Flicker flips.


And there's still the issue of TFP and Nico not really doing anything.

Toog answer this simple question: do you think Elsa will endgame as scum?

For those paying attention Toog has had one really solid stance: that we need to lynch Elsa. EVERY SINGLE OTHER VOTE of his was on the popular wagon of the time. We talked a lot about the definitions of lurking when it comes to TFP and Nico but nobody seems to put Toog in that list. Has anyone actually read his ISO? You can do it while sipping your morning cup of coffee.. it's that short.

If you guys still refuse to see how RC/Chara slot is questionable at best, let's lynch Toog instead.


Consider my vote on both

VOTE: Chara

Also I'm going to forego my ego this time and say I probably can't read gamma very well.. or more accurately, I need a LOT of posts from gamma to be able to sort him, so it might come too late in the game.
So for the time being can I get a list of people who have experienced BOTH his town game and scum game?

Spoiler: I remembered to spoiler something for once

Snipped for readability.

The problem with the bolded isn't that you took either stance, but that you took both. Simultaneously. RC and Tora are fighting over nothing, so they are inflating the thread, but ALSO you are happy with letting them fight.

The underlined: No it isn't. It's easier to sort some people when they get to a certain level of angry. In this case, the argument had devolved to "You always scumread me and are an asshole." vs "You won't stop replacing into my games and are an asshole." Both players were arguing from a position of "I don't care about his alignment, lynch him". The only outcomes there are being able to read the fight as not SvS (Already obvious at that point) and the fight making so much noise the thread got choked with it causing apathy. People are easier to read when they're off balance, not when they're raging at each other to the point where the argument isn't about the game. Then it's just noise that people have to wade through to find tiny grains of real content.

Boiling down the rest of my case to the italicized is a major misrep as well. For example "Passively supporting a lynch while simultaneously distancing yourself from it" is by no means a "playstyle difference". It's a scum motivated tool for a lack of accountability. Why?

Well lets look at your current line of argument. The intersect between the two wagons probably has scum. Surprisingly, you're not in that intersect, because despite the fact that you supported the RR lynch, you never placed a vote there. If you'd like, I can go dig up supporting evidence.

Also not mentioned: the mental gymnastics required to somehow paint putting RR at L-1 as towny for baiting a scum quicklynch and scummy for... Baiting a scumquicklynch? And then not doing that.

1. Okay that point is clearer now. The difference being I was strongly suspecting the fight was TvS even before they started fighting. So the fight inflating the thread would by definition be caused by scum. Which is my original point about the inflation. Inflation doesn't happen because scum post nonsense by themselves. Inflation happens because scum continue or start converations about things that are not game-related.

2. The underlined. If you want to argue that real life facts are not true then that is a conversation to be had outside of the game. Angry people are easier to read. That's why there are emotional aspects of interrogations. That's why poker players target people on tilt.
As for this game and this particular fight... there would not be a fight if they didn't scumread each other. So I disagree with your conclusion that they wanted the other lynched no matter what their alignment is. Sure they might get on each others nerves no matter what but they don't start randomly fighting like that if each of them townread the other. A scumread is the spark.

3. You seem to think that I deliberately did not vote for RR so that I later when I make this case can conveniently not include myself in the list.
When the RR votes were piling on I was flip flopping on RR, townreading him for reasons, scumreading him for others, trying to sort him through other ways like watching their interactions with others and engaging him myself. I was considering lynching them for the flip and to have a wagon we can lynch one of in d2 as votes piling on that quickly indicated scum on the wagon. Whether it was for bussing or to lynch a townie. But I wasn't sure if I really scumread them.

When the flicker votes were piling on I was scumreading flicker. That's the difference.

And then the intersect thing is a way for me to focus my scumhunting on a small group of players instead of all 16. All I said about it was that there is scum in the intersect. I didn't say everyone in the intersect is scum. Why do I believe there is scum in the interest? Because there are more scum reasons to join both wagons and unvote than there are town reasons to join both wagons and then unvote both, as I explained to cheeky a few posts back. Mcmenno was saying it was meaningless because any group of 4 could easily contain 1 scum. But the thing is I believe that group definitely contains scum, so it's far more probable than a random pick of 4.
I didn't pick the names randomly.. I picked the names based on the fact that I find it extremely unlikely that 4 townies had the same read on a player being wagoned, then had the same change of heart, then had the same read on another player being wagoned, then had the same change of heart.

And it might just be Elsa being a 3p messing with the odds of this whole thing.. but to equate it to a random pick of 4 was wrong of Mcmenno.

And I'm curious.. if I had voted both of them.. do you honestly expect me to put myself in my own scum pool?
Probably not.. no you're saying I'm scum because I'm scumreadimg people based on something I didn't do.

But I went through like the most diffcult and roundabout way of doing so. Why wouldn't I pick literally anything else that some people did that some didn't?

Let me explain how much effort that was from my pov. 99% of the time I go on MS it's on the phone.. so on phone I had to go back to the first wagon, take the names from the VC, go through the thread counting any additional votes that may have been missed, then do the same thing again for the 2nd wagon, then write up a few posts that actually explain what I'm doing because like I can't just fling a bunch of naked names around, JUST so I can have an additional reason to start a vanity wagon on someone I already had several reasons to scumread which is way more than enough to start a vanity wagon.

I wanted to help people to see why RC/Chara is scum. They don't see it.

I wanted to point out that Toog's lurkiness is on par with TFP and nico and that he has voted only on popular wagons, but that got ignored.

So it's like not even the scum pool thing that I do that most players don't do that people are ignoring of mine, but pretty much every thing I bring forward is being ignored.

So you know what playing my way is not going to work with this playerlist.
So if you're town help me appeal to the status quo better. What should I do?
And if you're scum you should lynch me now because I guarantee you I get harder to lynch as town with time not easier. My cases become much more aligned with what people are used to seeing and I know how to argue them better because I have more information behind the reasoning for them.

And if I end up being right about Chara being scum then this site is in serious need of new blood because people are like letting their friendships mess with their reads.

Here.. you did make one point I agree with.. these solo wagons are going no where.
I think if we're going to vote for an active lurker we should vote for Toogeloo instead for the record.. if people are willing to switch..
VOTE: TFPKAP

[TPFKAP]

No no no not me kill the other one! Not me, I did nothing wrong nothing at all iI was never even there there wasn’t even exist in their
I like beer I just I love beer I love beer so much cries cries cries so

[TPFKAP]

I COACH MY DAUGHTERS SOCCER TEAM AND IVE NEVER BEEN TO ONE GAME DRUNK YOU DONT KNOW HOW HARD THAT WOULD BE FOR SOMEONE ELSE THIS IS A WITCH-HUNT BEEREEEEEEEEEEEEEEER

[TPFKAP]

I work out with dog and skinny I remember drinking legally at at keg with some uhhh. Ladies

[TPFKAP]

In closing, fuck every one of you.

[TPFKAP]

Jk

[TPFKAP]

VOTE: bujabber

[TPFKAP]

This is biased against me because I don’t have the privilege you all have if enough free time. You are excluding working parents and the people of this great thread deserve a choice

[TPFKAP]

Vote bujabber, keep the advantage while we have it and press. Just look at his record, he is literally I thing about 90% WRONG on the issues that matter most to the town.

[TPFKAP]

Show me his anti scum moves ste. He isn’t always anti town but he is never ever anti scum

[TPFKAP]

Ok hold on how about this: you guys keep me alive and I will commit to role playing in characters that you choose and pictures

[Gamma Emerald]

Hell no
I want this dead 10000x faster than before just for how annoying this is

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

I COACH MY DAUGHTERS SOCCER TEAM AND IVE NEVER BEEN TO ONE GAME DRUNK YOU DONT KNOW HOW HARD THAT WOULD BE FOR SOMEONE ELSE

THIS IS A WITCH-HUNT

BEEREEEEEEEEEEEEEEER

You only say that as scum.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

oops, meant to do this in one of my earlier posts. just bookmarking this quote, quite mysteriously.

Spoiler:

If you beleive it Tor, we'd like to confirm it's true. Your vote now lets her prove herself as Priest with the non Self-Hammer.

Vote her to confirm her. Any unvotes on her is scum who dont want her to prove her role.

Seriously, who makes up priest? I hadn’t even heard of that role before her claim?

Not opposed but doubt she’s lying about that.

~N

NSG, you clearly misunderstood my post. What I was “not opposed” to was having Flicker PROVE her claim. I was however adamantly opposed to lynching her. I agreed with Tora and others that doing so was more likely than not, was a waste of time, she I was and am still convinced she’s probably town here.

[Nancy Drew Shogunate]

Hell no
I want this dead 10000x faster than before just for how annoying this is

Are you convinced she’s scum though? I don’t want a policy lynch.

[Gamma Emerald]

Hell no
I want this dead 10000x faster than before just for how annoying this is

Are you convinced she’s scum though? I don’t want a policy lynch.

Yes
I said this when I voted I’m pretty sure

[BuJaber]

Vote bujabber, keep the advantage while we have it and press. Just look at his record, he is literally I thing about 90% WRONG on the issues that matter most to the town.

Show me his anti scum moves ste. He isn’t always anti town but he is never ever anti scum

You defend yourself by lying about me?

Not a good way to look townie.

[McMenno]

Okay, what's the tpwhatever case? Lurkscum?