A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[Varsoon]

Jury's still out on how my role would interact with other vote-related powers but yeah
Everyone gets to cast a vote via PM and it's not revealed who voted who.

[Skygazer]

so creature is town

[Skygazer]

*checks VC, sees deadline*

um mastina could you gladiate soon

[Creature]

Jury's still out on how my role would interact with other vote-related powers but yeah
Everyone gets to cast a vote via PM and it's not revealed who voted who.

What?

[Creature]

Huh? didn't notice what was the deadline

[Creature]

Did I replace in just to get nightkilled?

[Jingle]

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This post took 3 minutes to make. It would not take significantly longer to change the numbers into the letters of the cornholio posts. This is a shitton of work.

Would he be able to make that abundantly clear though? I doubt it

You realize that jjh made an outright request for him to make a post in this format right? Like... It would have been abundantly clear, because at that point in time it had already been requested he do this.

[Jingle]

If youre gonna claim stuff, at least read them posts youre referring to properly. I stated straight away in that post it was bullshit to ask me to push through reads lists while noone is doing readslists and I have a post restriction.

And if you cannot see that when its D1, Mastina hasnt been sighted in forever, noone has seen the gladiate in play yet, and you suddenly get ran up to near lynch in extremely rapid fashion, that someone might think he's about to be quickhammered, youre not even trying to read into a situation. Youre just trying to reinforce an idea that you formed.

You were at 9 votes on page 66. Also on page 66, mastina comes in to post that she will be able to play the next day. On page 67, with no additional votes you claim IC.

Its cool youre trying to be all hipster and the like and take on the person being townread by everyone (except maybe 1-2 people), but they generally have good reason for it. Being, they were there, and they know what actually transpired. Being an iso-warrior can be helpfull at times, here its giving you the completely wrong context and youre just trying to brute-force everything to fit your theory.

Note: I've requested elaboration on why you are town. I've requested information on why Chickadee (the only real wagon) is scum. I've requested any other starting place.

So far, this has resulted in "Vecna has been gamesolvey" "Mastina can't read me" and "check out this lurker ISO". None of which are satisfactory responses.

Whether its scummy or just good-natured ignorance remains to be seen, but just drop it. Itll get you nowhere, and it has given you the wrong conclusion.

I'm not going to "drop it" until I'm convinced that I'm wrong. That's how you approach sorting people in games of mafia.

And yes, Ill continue to state that when your role PM stated "youre allowed one line of text" and you ask the gm to allow you more lines "for the purpose of fun" that abusing those extra lines allowed to code messages with colouring somewhat goes against the spirit of the game. Whether you agree with it or not, is completely besides the point. But feel free to continue your crusade I guess.

And I will continue to state that coloring your posts either was or was not breaking the rules. If it was, you'd ALREADY DONE SO. If it wasn't, it wasn't going to magically become against the rules. And if you really were concerned that RC would change his mind about whether it was allowed, you would have checked with him as town.

As for your additional points:

IC claim and retraction goes unanswered.

I'm pretty sure I answered this in my first post. In detail. With my reasoning. Don't pretend I did not. My flavor and role parts are all confirmable, and have been for part of it.

Absolutely nothing in your post explains why that's an acceptable reason to claim IC. Your flavor and claimed role (or rather, the not SECRET part of your role) are confirmable. Your flavor and role also in no way make you town.

Not having a town D2 goes unanswered.

I dont know what this means.

Nothing I see from your D2 leads me to the conclusion you're town. Perhaps I'm missing something in the context, but the lack of anyone in the playerlist being able to describe why you are town doesn't really lend itself to that conclusion. I don't want to go into this too much, because I'm VERY interested to see who jumps to your defense, and how. Which, if you're a universal townread as claimed should be quite the herd of bodies.

Attempting to lynch a player on meta while not acknowledging the assertion he has a history of misreading that player goes unanswered.

The only person im trying to lynch on Meta is Porkens. Ive dropped my shit against FB (for now) and the "we might have to lynch Mastina" has nothing to do with meta, but everything to do with the fact she's not participating, but spending a bunch of (apparently phone-time) posting extremely long posts detailing her private life. This is not the main reason though. Ill detail this in another post.

The only person you're currently trying to lynch on meta is Porkens. Which tbh, I don't care to deal with just now. Porkens ISO seems slightly less useless than I'd expect from my limited experience with Porkens scum, your primary support appears to be a policy vote, and I frankly don't have time to do an extra metadive before day end.

Incredibly bad approach to uber-role goes unanswered.

Im also not sure what this means. You have no clue about my role, and im not gonna give you more information regardless.

Ignoring the comment on your role, which I'm not getting into in case I'm wrong and my setup spec just ends up helping scum.

The uber role I'm referring to is mastina's. And that deserves its own post.

[Jingle]

Jury's still out on how my role would interact with other vote-related powers but yeah
Everyone gets to cast a vote via PM and it's not revealed who voted who.

Don't use today. If we can get confirmation that it works protown, 100% using it tomorrow when we have a little more time for coordination.

[Jingle]

jjh
Innocent Children
Rylai and Rina
Maid Cafe
WhemeStar
Lady Angel
Titus
NicoRobin

that's my PoE

Sup creature

Can you expand on your experience with random because I haven't played with him before but he looked scum to me here.

I could join you on titus tho.

Nico I was thinking might be third party due to the triple vote but tbh I am not that good at setup spec. Do you think 5 scum could have a triple voter here?

--rh

If it turns off in LYLO, sure. Regardless it's negative town utility. Is the premise that NR has been acting scum? If so, why?

[Varsoon]

Jury's still out on how my role would interact with other vote-related powers but yeah
Everyone gets to cast a vote via PM and it's not revealed who voted who.

Don't use today. If we can get confirmation that it works protown, 100% using it tomorrow when we have a little more time for coordination.

Yeah wasn't planning on using it today.

[THE MEME MEN]

I guess I would flip the question. Do you see any sign of town in nr?

-rh

[Nero Cain]

hey nero why you lurking lol

I've actually been relatively busy lately and I didn't really want to do anything until I had the time to sit down a digest all the new content.

[Nero Cain]

so creature is town

probs and thats why I'm killing him tonight. #WIFOM


but srs, that clutter factory annoys me.

[Nero Cain]

im reaching out to scum here. Kill Creature and you get my free mislynch d3.

[Jingle]

So yes, my strong preference is, we run up some dodgy person that wont be missed if scum kill them later on as a townclear, have Mastina gladiate them (or finally form a spine and give her own input/preference maybe, but whatever this also works), and either get a scum caught or lynch Mastina and proceed with two townclears if she flips town that both really wont be missed if scum is forced to kill them.

No.

First of all: Already addressed to some Extent

Second of all: Let us consider the three avenues of balance.

1: Town gets ridiculous power, so scum gets ridiculous power to compensate. In this case, this would probably be something along the lines of a scumvig, an extra member, 2 godfathers, etc.
2: Town gets ridiculous power, so scum gets a direct counter to said power. In this case, there's a bunch of options I've considered. Hidden day rb, day lawyer, day tailor, full strongman etc.
3: Town gets ridiculous power, so is disincentived from using it. In this case possibly something like a macho modifier on mastina, a lack of town protectives, or a cult.

Okay, so here it becomes obvious that it is in fact possible to balance mastina's role.

Third of all: Balance fail. We cannot discount it because it does happen, even to the best of mods. It is even more likely here than in normal circumstances because this is A. a UPick which are annoyingly hard to balance at the best of times because of their very nature. B. a role madness large, meaning lots of moving parts to design and fit together, and C. RC had limited time to come up with the setup. As evidenced by Page 1.

Fourth of all: The Fakeclaim. Unlikely, because scum tend to avoid fakeclaiming into expiration dates. Additionally unlikely because mastina doesn't like fakeclaiming. Additionally Additionally unlikely because even if mastina did decide to fakeclaim, she would do so in a game that wasn't likely to have a bunch of moving parts she couldn't control to catch her. + part of her claim is confirmable.

Fifth of all: The Scum Realclaim. More likely than 4, but if so mastina has played this claim in the most protown manner someone possibly can.

Now, we put it all together.

It is possible the game is balanced and mastina's role exists. It is further possible that town's chances of winning rely heavily on said role. Therefore we run a risk/benefits analysis.

Scenarios:

Game is unbalanced: Best course of action: who gives a shit.
Mastina is central to our chances: Best course of action: milk her role for all that it can give us.
Scum counter to town mastina: Best course of action: play around possible counters.
Mastina is scum realclaiming: Best course of action: Leash mastina and milk her role for all that it can give us.
Mastina is scum fakeclaiming: Best course of action: Lynch mastina.

Lets look at the worst case scenarios:

Tailor/Lawyer: I'm going to leave discussion on how to play around this til tomorrow because it's too late in the day to do anything about it now.
Cult: The only thing we CAN do is hunt for cult leaders. Which... fuck cult.
Scum Fakeclaiming: We lose x days of lynching, but we don't lose any time with PR's. assuming x is 5 clears, that means we are at 16 alive assuming 1 KPN before we lynch mastina assuming scum don't . mastina dies, meaning one less scum and we have five days of PR results. If scum choose to kill in the 'clear' pool to keep mastina alive longer, they are literally shooting people we would've lynched anyway. If they shoot mastina, it resolves the situation. If mastina is scum, then there is more town power hiding in the wings to make catching her/other scum more likely.

Today, lynching mastina is possibly the stupidest choice we could make, and I think I'm well within rights to BoP you wanting to lynch her today given what I remember of Lynch the Wolves.

[Jingle]

I guess I would flip the question. Do you see any sign of town in nr?

-rh

My impression of NR is that she's lurky as both alignments, but as scum there's a lack of anything and as town there's some attempts to gamesolve that shine through. I see posts that look like they might be progressing the game in her ISO, which means a very slight townlean.

If we were actually capable of policy lynching, I'd be down for it should I have a lack of solid scumreads, but we're not actually capable of policy lynching atm.

[jjh927]

Note for Mastina-

Please remember that in the event of a 'guilty', ie, your gladiate failing, no time would be added to the deadline.

[jjh927]

We have 24 hours so do the thing

[Vecna]

So yes, my strong preference is, we run up some dodgy person that wont be missed if scum kill them later on as a townclear, have Mastina gladiate them (or finally form a spine and give her own input/preference maybe, but whatever this also works), and either get a scum caught or lynch Mastina and proceed with two townclears if she flips town that both really wont be missed if scum is forced to kill them.

No.

First of all: Already addressed to some Extent

Second of all: Let us consider the three avenues of balance.

1: Town gets ridiculous power, so scum gets ridiculous power to compensate. In this case, this would probably be something along the lines of a scumvig, an extra member, 2 godfathers, etc.
2: Town gets ridiculous power, so scum gets a direct counter to said power. In this case, there's a bunch of options I've considered. Hidden day rb, day lawyer, day tailor, full strongman etc.
3: Town gets ridiculous power, so is disincentived from using it. In this case possibly something like a macho modifier on mastina, a lack of town protectives, or a cult.

Okay, so here it becomes obvious that it is in fact possible to balance mastina's role.

Third of all: Balance fail. We cannot discount it because it does happen, even to the best of mods. It is even more likely here than in normal circumstances because this is A. a UPick which are annoyingly hard to balance at the best of times because of their very nature. B. a role madness large, meaning lots of moving parts to design and fit together, and C. RC had limited time to come up with the setup. As evidenced by Page 1.

Fourth of all: The Fakeclaim. Unlikely, because scum tend to avoid fakeclaiming into expiration dates. Additionally unlikely because mastina doesn't like fakeclaiming. Additionally Additionally unlikely because even if mastina did decide to fakeclaim, she would do so in a game that wasn't likely to have a bunch of moving parts she couldn't control to catch her. + part of her claim is confirmable.

Fifth of all: The Scum Realclaim. More likely than 4, but if so mastina has played this claim in the most protown manner someone possibly can.

Now, we put it all together.

It is possible the game is balanced and mastina's role exists. It is further possible that town's chances of winning rely heavily on said role. Therefore we run a risk/benefits analysis.

Scenarios:

Game is unbalanced: Best course of action: who gives a shit.
Mastina is central to our chances: Best course of action: milk her role for all that it can give us.
Scum counter to town mastina: Best course of action: play around possible counters.
Mastina is scum realclaiming: Best course of action: Leash mastina and milk her role for all that it can give us.
Mastina is scum fakeclaiming: Best course of action: Lynch mastina.

Lets look at the worst case scenarios:

Tailor/Lawyer: I'm going to leave discussion on how to play around this til tomorrow because it's too late in the day to do anything about it now.
Cult: The only thing we CAN do is hunt for cult leaders. Which... fuck cult.
Scum Fakeclaiming: We lose x days of lynching, but we don't lose any time with PR's. assuming x is 5 clears, that means we are at 16 alive assuming 1 KPN before we lynch mastina assuming scum don't . mastina dies, meaning one less scum and we have five days of PR results. If scum choose to kill in the 'clear' pool to keep mastina alive longer, they are literally shooting people we would've lynched anyway. If they shoot mastina, it resolves the situation. If mastina is scum, then there is more town power hiding in the wings to make catching her/other scum more likely.

Today, lynching mastina is possibly the stupidest choice we could make, and I think I'm well within rights to BoP you wanting to lynch her today given what I remember of Lynch the Wolves.

Yeah yeah, fancy words. takeaway: we know nothing

So what is your read on Mastina?

[Aristophanes]

Note for Mastina-

Please remember that in the event of a 'guilty', ie, your gladiate failing, no time would be added to the deadline.

Mastina claims loyal town gladiator

whose gladiate can be no lynched

Bolded mine.

Are we really believing mastina got a loyal gladiate?

That essentially makes her a public daycop, no? If the target can be NL'd then we get free townreads in exchage for lynching, which is, I suppose, the balance tradeoff. Still hard to believe though.

[Chickadee]

Note for Mastina-

Please remember that in the event of a 'guilty', ie, your gladiate failing, no time would be added to the deadline.

Mastina claims loyal town gladiator

whose gladiate can be no lynched

Bolded mine.

Are we really believing mastina got a loyal gladiate?

That essentially makes her a public daycop, no? If the target can be NL'd then we get free townreads in exchage for lynching, which is, I suppose, the balance tradeoff. Still hard to believe though.

Yea. I’m in the camp “lynch Mastina today unless he gladiator hits scum”

[KuroiXHF]

So, atm, we have mastina town, jjh town, kuroi town, me town, NR town.

Vecna scum.

Vecna scumflip means FB prolly town. Porkens maybe town?

Should I be able to add anything to that PoE right now, or should I just start chipping away at the player list?

And why is Vecna scum? Based on his role, I'm not willing to want to lynch him first.

Aristophanes replaces Randomidget.
Creature replaces Nosferatu.

Welcome!

also why did no one tell me Kuroi got desperado'd?

cuz he didnt

he was gladiated im pretty sure

I was.

Note for Mastina-

Please remember that in the event of a 'guilty', ie, your gladiate failing, no time would be added to the deadline.

Mastina claims loyal town gladiator

whose gladiate can be no lynched

Bolded mine.

Are we really believing mastina got a loyal gladiate?

That essentially makes her a public daycop, no? If the target can be NL'd then we get free townreads in exchage for lynching, which is, I suppose, the balance tradeoff. Still hard to believe though.

Yea. I’m in the camp “lynch Mastina today unless he gladiator hits scum”

[Jingle]

And why is Vecna scum? Based on his role, I'm not willing to want to lynch him first.

You realize his claim is retracted IC claim that then said Fruit Vendor with additional unknown clause, right? Cause that's pretty much the scummiest claim I've ever heard, outside of a straightup scumclaim or the arsonist claim in TM.

[Jingle]

That essentially makes her a public daycop, no? If the target can be NL'd then we get free townreads in exchage for lynching, which is, I suppose, the balance tradeoff. Still hard to believe though.

Yes. It is pretty much a public daycop. And you don't ever lynch a fucking public daycop on D2.

Mastina is not a clear and present threat to the town. By ANY stretch of the imagination.