Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[ruru]

votecount

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

NicoRobin (1):

Elsa Jay (2018),

McMenno (1):

CheekyTeeky (2024),

Not voting (14):

Thor665,

Toogeloo,

NicoRobin,

Chara,

Nancy Drew Shogunate,

Chickadee,

Flicker,

Jingle,

BuJaber,

McMenno,

Reasonably Rational,

Malakittens,

Gamma Emerald,

northsidegal,

(expired on 2018-10-29 22:00:00) remain.

[Chickadee]

I concede that I REALLY don't want to get into another argument yet, so I'm changing the subject since it seens easy to do as me, especially whenever I bring myself up.

VOTE: Robin

Anybody who even town reads this, raise your hand. Then:

1: Put your hand down you are wrong.

2: If we lost nothing last night, then let's start where we left off yesterday. This probably would have been shot by the vigi if things went normally anyway.

raises hand

Tell me why I’m wrong pls.

[Jingle]

The other 3 talked about how someone was town because they revealed stuff about their role PM early...therefore they were aware ONLY TOWN ROLES DIDN'T KNOW WHO THEY WERE. Whereas we didn't know if scum had flavour or not.

I specced that too, FWIW. I thought it maybe cleared Porkens. It was like, the core hesitancy behind voting him over NR waaaaaay back.

[Jingle]

It's been mod confirmed that flavor is not revealed until flip. I brought it up on page 1, Toog brought it up shortly after in response to me (both before sample role pm was posted). Then somewhere in the middle jumble of pages, Mod posted about it.

So what sets that aside as particularly towny?

Is brought up in a manner that looks like it was intended to be read as non game related, thus not reaching for towncred. Additionally, mod confirmed flavor was redacted because game is broken by mass flavor claim. Which means, scum flavor could very easily not be redacted, because they would have no incentive to claim flavor with town's flavor being redacted. This will be supported/refuted/made irrelevant by the first scum flip, but if I don't mark it down I will forget about it, so it gets noted that someone might look back and notice if it becomes relevant.

If you are correct in that you are first person to bring up the redactedness of flavor, that post becomes super important to look at as well, so thank you for bringing this to my attention.

[McMenno]

{RR, Chara, NSG, Gamma, Mala}
{Elsa, NDS, BuJaber}
{NicoRobin, Chick, Thor}
{Jingle, McMenno, Toogeloo, Flicker}

If someone can tell me what the bottom 4 have in common I'll locktown you for the rest of the game.

it's that we're cool

[CheekyTeeky]

Ok...I'm really confused. Setup spec is not my forté...help.

So how many killing actions are we assuming? Another possibility is that there are multiple docs/or one doc who can block all kills.

I guess I have to believe Toog is town then? Still happy with my vote.

[Elsa Jay]

I concede that I REALLY don't want to get into another argument yet, so I'm changing the subject since it seens easy to do as me, especially whenever I bring myself up.

VOTE: Robin

Anybody who even town reads this, raise your hand. Then:

1: Put your hand down you are wrong.

2: If we lost nothing last night, then let's start where we left off yesterday. This probably would have been shot by the vigi if things went normally anyway.

raises hand

Tell me why I’m wrong pls.

If I don't town read her, and this is Multiball, AND they havent contributed at all to the game, then why be opposed to the lynch?

Sure, you can say I'm being opportunistic here, but you have a firm grasp on my current intentions. More then most here, in fact.

Give me your reason for townreading them, THEN we can have a proper discussion about it.

[McMenno]

elsa said that her doc blocks all kills. and she's a neutral. so if it's multiball, I wouldn't be surprised at a town doc

[CheekyTeeky]

The other 3 talked about how someone was town because they revealed stuff about their role PM early...therefore they were aware ONLY TOWN ROLES DIDN'T KNOW WHO THEY WERE. Whereas we didn't know if scum had flavour or not.

I specced that too, FWIW. I thought it maybe cleared Porkens. It was like, the core hesitancy behind voting him over NR waaaaaay back.

Why would you think it cleared anyone if you assumed (from a town PoV) that scum weren't given flavour either?

[CheekyTeeky]

Thanks for covering my butt Elsa. I will protect you as best I can against lynching

[Jingle]

Ok...I'm really confused. Setup spec is not my forté...help.

So how many killing actions are we assuming? Another possibility is that there are multiple docs/or one doc who can block all kills.

I guess I have to believe Toog is town then? Still happy with my vote.

I would bet, given the name of the game and public mechanics, between 3 and 10 killing roles. If insanely high number, there is a high likelihood that there are a bunch of town roles (Mal/Jayne/MaybeZoe) who are all some percentage vig based on the sample role PM.

Kaylee and Inara would make sense for Flicker possibilities now that I think about it.

I could see Zoe:Wash and/or River:Simon being linked roles. Masonry or hood or something along those lines. Neighborhood would probably be all town then, but obviously that's not sheepable.

There's probably another team of 3 scum and possibly a serial killer. A 4 scum team doesn't make sense, because it's just not likely to have a team of 4 and a team of 2+ traitor with both teams having a similar chance at victory. That would take some wonky balance shenanigans.

[Jingle]

Why would you think it cleared anyone if you assumed (from a town PoV) that scum weren't given flavour either?

I thought given the context of his post that it didn't look like a towncred grab. I specced very early that if the reason town weren't given flavor was to prevent breaking by flavorclaim there was no reason not to give scum their incriminating flavor. I later determined it wasn't a townslip because Porkens had almost certainly seen the mod confirmation of no town flavor before making his post, which would mean it could easily have been faked. It's like half of my back and forth with Thor, and Chickadee played a big part in it too iirc.

[Elsa Jay]

Thanks for covering my butt Elsa. I will protect you as best I can against lynching

Calculated risk taken in not being Obvious and healing Tora RR or Chara.

Result: Successful.

Relationship bonus: + 5.

[Jingle]

The Operative could be a lyncher targeting River, now that I think a little bit more about his character, but he's probably not a Serial Killer. He murders a bunch of alliance goons/doctors, but he lets Mal/Inara go fairly easily early and

Spoiler: plot

the only crew deaths he actually causes are pretty accidental.

[Jingle]

Oh, we can almost assuredly be sure we have 4 killing roles.

[Jingle]

Unless A50 is fucking with us. And that's a minimum, not a maximum.

[Elsa Jay]

Oh, we can almost assuredly be sure we have 4 killing roles.

No wonder he thought adding a Neutral Doc was a good idea.

That shit is ridiculous.

[Toogeloo]

So how many killing actions are we assuming?

Possibilities include:
Hands of Blue (confirmed)
Second Mafia Team
One or More Serial Killer
One or More Town Vigilante
PGO (It's Firefly/Serenity, and I could think of quite a few characters that fit the bill, just sayin')

I'm going to assume there are at least 4 to be quite honest. The game is called OVERKILL for one, and it has the special mechanic in place so that no faction can lose more than 2 players per phase, which tells me that lots of potential to get kills at night.

---

Another possibility is that there are multiple docs/or one doc who can block all kills.

The thing I'm having trouble with here is that from a flavor perspective, there aren't many (if any) characters I would call as "Survivor" Doctors. Simon is trying to survive, sure, but he can only do with the help of the Serenity crew. To think that Simon would win the game with Alliance or Reavers or whatever is just plain stupid. The only one I would think fits is the Doctor played by Sarah Paulson reporting in regards to the PAX that killed the vast majority of colonists on Miranda and turned the rest into Reavers, but that is a real reach I think.

There are only 9 members of Serenity, which would be just barely over majority if we consider them all town, and considering limited deaths works both ways, I would almost say that a 9 player town is actually what we are looking at with multiple killing factions that can potentially cross kill. Simon is absolutely a Doc in some capacity, though he could maybe be a Jailkeeper with some lore spinning. Mal could be a Jailkeeper too, though I would consider that a pretty simplistic view of his character. In other words, I think Simon is a protective role and is aligned with town.

A lot of these thoughts are why I have a lot of trouble trusting Elsa Jay, and think there might be some lying going on either for their benefit or towns.

---

I guess I have to believe Toog is town then?

Well, don't make it sound like you are being forced. If you want to believe that a scum lightning rod exists and would claim to have used his action on Night 1, not knowing what roles exist in the game, like Cops, Watchers, Gunsmiths, Trackers, Vanillizers, Name Scanners, etc... I can't help you fight that paranoia other than to say it's a fairly long stretch to think it makes sense.

We could WIFOM the hell out of the situation too, but it does you no good. Am I a Godfather Lightning Rod (lolbroken)?

You take what I say and believe it, or don't. If I'm still alive at end game, maybe start to question it then.

---

The Operative could be a lyncher targeting River, now that I think a little bit more about his character, but he's probably not a Serial Killer. He murders a bunch of alliance goons/doctors, but he lets Mal/Inara go fairly easily early and

Spoiler: plot

the only crew deaths he actually causes are pretty accidental.

Well, just because he was unsuccessful doesn't change the nature of his character. Book wasn't really accidental for sure.

[Toogeloo]

I tried to beat you to it with my 4 kills guess, but I had to refresh and respond to your Operative post.

[Toogeloo]

Oh, we can almost assuredly be sure we have 4 killing roles.

No wonder he thought adding a Neutral Doc was a good idea.

That shit is ridiculous.

The thing is that it literally doesn't matter because no one faction can lose more than 2 members per phase. You might mitigate a little, or me soaking up everything might mitigate a little, but we're never going to have a full on massacre I think.

[Jingle]

3- There are multiple killing mechanics in this game. To mitigate swing; this public mechanic will apply: A maximum of TWO players of the same faction can die in the same cycle (D1/N1, D2/N2, etc). In the case where more than 2 players are set to die in the same cycle the one(s) that go though are determined through a pre-set process that shall be revealed post-game.

In order for this to need to be "A faction" and not "Town", there have to be three kills that are not controlled by a specific faction. Scum aren't going to target themselves. So 3 shots that aren't each individual scumteam's. Possibly up to three town killing roles by flavor. Reavers *could* be a two person scumteam with 2 kills. Very much doubt they're a 3p with multiple kills though. Possible SK/Needs to kill specific townie role. Implication for HoB is they only have one kill from Porken's PM. Could maybe just be three scumteams and a town vig? In which case we're probably dealing with Reavers and Niska's crew. Niska's crew having something along the lines of a tracker would make sense.

So maybe 9v3v3v2v1? No, that's too many players, so impossible if we believe the EJ claim, and there's no reason not to believe the EJ claim.

9v3v2v2v1 would fit numbers wise. The three would have a traitor, so if the other teams had power to back them up it would make sense setup wise. Reavers could have some manner of BP/commute because no one has even confirmed they exist at the beginning of the series. Niska's crew could have a doctor as well, because Niska was a sadist who liked to torture people to the brink of death and then bring them back.

Yeah, best guess 9v3v2v2v1, some form of self protect for one of the twos and a mafdoc for the other. Town prolly has a vig and a doc and not much power otherwise.

[Toogeloo]

Anyways, Jingle, I think you (and I) need to stop with the flavor speculation. If anything, it's making me want to lynch Elsa more and question your alignment since you keep trying to shade some of the characters who should be exactly what we expect them to be.

I think that roles will be intentionally ambiguous since the mod decided to redact our flavor, we wouldn't want to be able to guess who we are just by seeing our ability.

The only thing that's pertinent is that we know for certain there is a two man mafia team that had a traitor, which is far too small of a mafia team for a game this size, and would require another team or multiple serial killers.

/tinfoilhaton
If town is literally the only faction who doesn't have flavor, then I think it almost assuredly makes Chikadee a strong town lean, and I would almost guess that Elsa Jay actually is town aligned and been lying to keep themselves alive by claiming a positive utility that no one would want lynched but near impossible to kill.
/tinfoilhatoff

[Jingle]

The thing I'm having trouble with here is that from a flavor perspective, there aren't many (if any) characters I would call as "Survivor" Doctors. Simon is trying to survive, sure, but he can only do with the help of the Serenity crew. To think that Simon would win the game with Alliance or Reavers or whatever is just plain stupid. The only one I would think fits is the Doctor played by Sarah Paulson reporting in regards to the PAX that killed the vast majority of colonists on Miranda and turned the rest into Reavers, but that is a real reach I think.

There's the alliance doc killed at the beginning of the movie, and if it WAS needed for balance that makes a ton of sense.

[Elsa Jay]

I've mentioned it a lot already when you decided to ignore me but: Toog, choosing someone you KNOW is town to survive until the next day is a great ability.

Currently feeling worse about my chance to live as well with that many options for murder, PGO included.

[Toogeloo]

The thing I'm having trouble with here is that from a flavor perspective, there aren't many (if any) characters I would call as "Survivor" Doctors. Simon is trying to survive, sure, but he can only do with the help of the Serenity crew. To think that Simon would win the game with Alliance or Reavers or whatever is just plain stupid. The only one I would think fits is the Doctor played by Sarah Paulson reporting in regards to the PAX that killed the vast majority of colonists on Miranda and turned the rest into Reavers, but that is a real reach I think.

There's the alliance doc killed at the beginning of the movie, and if it WAS needed for balance that makes a ton of sense.

There is literally no way you sell to me that a member of the alliance who was torturing River would work with town just to survive.

Oh, and...

VOTE: BuJaber

...since I think we should just pick up where we left off yesterday ^_^