I'm not liking anyone saying to look at the Porkens lynch as a "town lynch".
It was anything but and we all know it. Even a glance at their ISO gave everyone a reason to kill them as town and scum on other team.
I dont think the Porkens lynch is AI for finding their partners, personally. Scum jumping on the wagon, sure, but definitely not any HoB members bussing a "potential traitor".
Elsa, you're too smart to make statements like the bolded one.Do you honestly think anyone wanted us to view yesterday as a mislynch? Do you sincerely think that statement was meant that way by anyone, and not the way that you said it(that is, that the wagon should be analyzed in the same way a wagon on town would be)?
In post 1937, Almost50 wrote:You are Lawrence Dobson, an undercover Union of Allied Planets agent in pursuit of Simon and River Tam. You know that mysterious pair going by “Hands of Blue” are also in pursuit of the Tam siblings on behalf of the Union
In post 1302, Jingle wrote:Uh, that would require me to have a knowledge of your allies outside of "Tora is weirdly protective of Jay in a way that is unlikely to gain him towncred, which could mean that Tora's wincon is tied to Jay surviving and thus they might be Simon/River, but if so Jay is river and probably lying about being a doctor because why the fuck would River be a doctor."
I'm not liking anyone saying to look at the Porkens lynch as a "town lynch".
It was anything but and we all know it. Even a glance at their ISO gave everyone a reason to kill them as town and scum on other team.
I dont think the Porkens lynch is AI for finding their partners, personally. Scum jumping on the wagon, sure, but definitely not any HoB members bussing a "potential traitor".
Elsa, you're too smart to make statements like the bolded one.Do you honestly think anyone wanted us to view yesterday as a mislynch? Do you sincerely think that statement was meant that way by anyone, and not the way that you said it(that is, that the wagon should be analyzed in the same way a wagon on town would be)?
-Cerb
I'm half asleep and remembered Jingle saying looking at it as if it was a town lynch was valid or something. Calling me out is good, so thanks for that.
Also: Never underestimate my IQ fluctuation. It goes from Rock to Politician/Lawyer in an instant and back again, with any results in-between.
In post 2021, Jingle wrote:So putting aside Toog, Flicker, EJ for today.
Porkens being treated as a town wagon is a viable point.
I'm fine with the provisional assumption that Flicker was a town wagon. That's a good starting point for wagon analysis, if someone who isn't being lazy wants to get on that.
Too show I'm not bullshitting, my mind only read the bolded and clearly my mind blocks out information when I'm tired.
Dont think I should post anymore tonight while my mind is drowsy. Will post more tomorrow.
In post 1937, Almost50 wrote:You are Lawrence Dobson, an undercover Union of Allied Planets agent in pursuit of Simon and River Tam. You know that mysterious pair going by “Hands of Blue” are also in pursuit of the Tam siblings on behalf of the Union
In post 1302, Jingle wrote:Uh, that would require me to have a knowledge of your allies outside of "Tora is weirdly protective of Jay in a way that is unlikely to gain him towncred, which could mean that Tora's wincon is tied to Jay surviving and thus they might be Simon/River, but if so Jay is river and probably lying about being a doctor because why the fuck would River be a doctor."
Look weird Gamma?
Nah not really
Aren’t Simon/River just generally tied in the flavor? It would make sense to conclude they could be like that without that knowledge if so.
We're falling through space, you and me, clinging to the skin of this tiny little world, and if we let go...That's who I am.
I don't know the show and this is only my 2nd large game ever played so I only have one contribution to the setup spec:
It is a mistake imo to assume 4 different factions with killing power just because the mod did not specify "town" when he stated that only 2 people from any faction may die in 1 phase. If he specified town we would know for sure that scum cannot possibly be targeted by 3 kills which is quite a bit of info. I think it's very possible to have Town v Scum v Scum v Neutral. So 4 total alignments. I'm not saying we can't have more, just that we should assume that we HAVE to have more than 4.
Toog I for one after your claim never considered scum lightning rod. What I did speculate was whether you could be scum simply lying about your role. But your post actually makes it sound like you never even thought of that possibility which clears you I think. If you were scum lying obviously that possibility would be running through your mind. So you're town.
You want to know why AND improve the accuracy of your reads this game? I'm town. The counterwagon to a traitor flip. Even if we assume scum didn't know the traitor, a town counterwagon to another town wagon? Scum voted me.
VOTE: Mcmenno
Jingle did you have any other reason for flicker being your vote holder apart from "she's priest"?
You want to know why AND improve the accuracy of your reads this game? I'm town. The counterwagon to a traitor flip. Even if we assume scum didn't know the traitor, a town counterwagon to another town wagon? Scum voted me.
VOTE: Mcmenno
Jingle did you have any other reason for flicker being your vote holder apart from "she's priest"?
I think they’re kinda towny at present
Why?
We're falling through space, you and me, clinging to the skin of this tiny little world, and if we let go...That's who I am.
In post 1941, CheekyTeeky wrote:{RR, Chara, NSG, Gamma, Mala}
{Elsa, NDS, BuJaber}
{NicoRobin, Chick, Thor}
{Jingle, McMenno, Toogeloo, Flicker}
If someone can tell me what the bottom 4 have in common I'll locktown you for the rest of the game.
Cheeky, still wanted to know why Mala and Gamma are here.
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
Scary is not the right word.. let's go with "makes me nervous that she's scum even when I townread some of her posts"
Take the part about the TMI thing with her bottom tier. A perfectly valid point BUT the scum motivation for stating it is obvious. Especially when it is not an easy statement to refute because it pretty much boils down to subjective interpretation of their subtext. And when Toog kind of made himself obvtown or suicided.
Either way though I think it's worth looking into, and of the 4 she chose Menno who has the highest scum equity.
She does seem genuine when she engages people and I don't think that's easy to fake, but unless she has an alt I've yet to experience her scum game firsthand.
Be here later. My computer is broken so I may have to replace out if I can’t keep up via phone
No matter how high the stakes, sooner or later you're just gonna have to go with your gut.
And maybe, just maybe, that'll take you right where you were supposed to be.
To a certain extent I'd like to flip some of the droops who were avoiding the wagons yesterday, but even so there probably is some info to be mined in flipping on the wagons since this will functionally be a slightly informed Day 1.
Someone commented that they wanted my insight on some of the setup spec babble - to which my basic reply is 'we don't know enough yet to have worthwhile setup spec'.
Like the killing factions? Yeah, we can safely assume 3+ killing roles, but the specifics of how many of those are targeted night actions and how many are maybe something like a paranoid gun owner is not really known. 4 doesn't seem like a crazy thought, but neither is it really worth spending more than 30 seconds self debating at this stage.
I'm fine treating Flicker as town right now, as I was fine doing so yesterday.
I'm fine treating the lightning rod as town, that seems sensible.
I'm indifferent on the whole "treat wagon as town wagon for analysis" thing and my basic reply is - "how about you just offer your reads and analyze reads that others offer" it seems like an empty statement.
McMenno was the starter of BuJaber and was Stargazer also, I kinda thought he was town. What's the case there for people?
Looking at the lynch;
TPFKAP (9): Thor665, Gamma Emerald, Elsa Jay, CheekyTeeky, BuJaber, Jingle, Nancy Drew Shogunate, Chara, Toogeloo
I'm town, Elsa is not a lynch nor likely groupscum, I think Cheeky is town, I think Toog is town.
I think we should lynch one of Gamma,BuJaber,Nancy Drew,Chara
In post 2082, BuJaber wrote:You want to know why AND improve the accuracy of your reads this game? I'm town. The counterwagon to a traitor flip. Even if we assume scum didn't know the traitor, a town counterwagon to another town wagon? Scum voted me.
In a multi-ball game, that's never how it works. Scum only care if it's "not them."
In post 2082, BuJaber wrote:You want to know why AND improve the accuracy of your reads this game? I'm town. The counterwagon to a traitor flip. Even if we assume scum didn't know the traitor, a town counterwagon to another town wagon? Scum voted me.
In a multi-ball game, that's never how it works. Scum only care if it's "not them."
Indeed.
Is this honest bad town play from Bujaber? As I said yesterday, I'm inclined to assume ignorance over malice much of the time(because it's so easy to portray bad town play as scummy), but this gives me pause.
Bujaber, do you actually have any logic to present about things that makes sense/isn't easily dismissed as simply wrong?
Wow, no kills. So Toog as LR may explain it. However if EJ was on Cheeky, that probably points to more than one protective in the game. Since Toog had to have been doc’d since he clearly didn’t claim bp.
Lightning Rod
Lightning Rod
Alias:
Magnet
Alignment:
Pro-Town
Role type:
Manipulative
Passive
Negative Utility
Choice:
Night
The Lightning Rod passively redirects every Night Action to itself. This includes the Mafia's kill as well as all investigations, protections, and so forth.
In games with at least one protective role, this essentially makes the game Nightless until the Lightning Rod dies for whichever reason. Otherwise, this functionally makes the Lightning Rod the designated Night 1 Mafia kill while rendering all other power roles worthless during Night 1.
Lightning Rods are most often, but not necessarily, pro-Town. Perhaps also see Suicidal.
In post 2082, BuJaber wrote:You want to know why AND improve the accuracy of your reads this game? I'm town. The counterwagon to a traitor flip. Even if we assume scum didn't know the traitor, a town counterwagon to another town wagon? Scum voted me.
In a multi-ball game, that's never how it works. Scum only care if it's "not them."
Indeed.
Is this honest bad town play from Bujaber? As I said yesterday, I'm inclined to assume ignorance over malice much of the time(because it's so easy to portray bad town play as scummy), but this gives me pause.
Bujaber, do you actually have any logic to present about things that makes sense/isn't easily dismissed as simply wrong?
-Cerb
I'm 'not them' for all scum factions.
If 'not them' is the motivation for scum voting a wagon, I have a higher chance of attracting scum votes because I fit this description for more of them.
And if the traitor is unknown to scum in this game (seems that way from the role PM) then none of the factions would know they had a traitor. So if any faction decided TFP was traitor crumbing, they have an interest in keeping her alive in case she was
their
traitor.
Either way there is a visible difference between TFP and my wagons compared to RR and flicker's. Those seemed like early experimental wagons that fizzled pretty quickly. People only unvoted me because TFP wagon won. The votes on these 2 wagons were much more permanent.
In post 2082, BuJaber wrote:You want to know why AND improve the accuracy of your reads this game? I'm town. The counterwagon to a traitor flip. Even if we assume scum didn't know the traitor, a town counterwagon to another town wagon? Scum voted me.
In a multi-ball game, that's never how it works. Scum only care if it's "not them."
Indeed.
Is this honest bad town play from Bujaber? As I said yesterday, I'm inclined to assume ignorance over malice much of the time(because it's so easy to portray bad town play as scummy), but this gives me pause.
Bujaber, do you actually have any logic to present about things that makes sense/isn't easily dismissed as simply wrong?
-Cerb
I'm 'not them' for all scum factions.
If 'not them' is the motivation for scum voting a wagon, I have a higher chance of attracting scum votes because I fit this description for more of them.
And if the traitor is unknown to scum in this game (seems that way from the role PM) then none of the factions would know they had a traitor. So if any faction decided TFP was traitor crumbing, they have an interest in keeping her alive in case she was
their
traitor.
Either way there is a visible difference between TFP and my wagons compared to RR and flicker's. Those seemed like early experimental wagons that fizzled pretty quickly. People only unvoted me because TFP wagon won. The votes on these 2 wagons were much more permanent.
You don't understand how comparing a scum flip to a counterwagon works. It's not "not them" that's the key. It's how they interact around the slots whose alignment they do know. We can safely assume that all scum factions knew/assumed the game was multiball, based on the size of their teams. If you are not scum, they did not know whether you were scum or not. None of them likely knew if TPFKAP was scum or not. Their interactions regarding how people chose between you and the other option will not reveal anything about whether they were trying to distance themselves from a known scum lynch, or hard bus, or conceal either intent.
You as a counterwagon to scum means nothing in the context of this game.
The RR/BuJaber debate is going nowhere *really* fast.
Nancy Drew came in and gave a beautiful picture perfect example of IIoA by literally saying nothing other than theorizing town has a protective role other than the claimed 3rd party role - whoop-dee-insight.
In post 2098, Thor665 wrote:The RR/BuJaber debate is going nowhere *really* fast.
Nancy Drew came in and gave a beautiful picture perfect example of IIoA by literally saying nothing other than theorizing town has a protective role other than the claimed 3rd party role - whoop-dee-insight.
It's significant Thor. It's a matter of "is Bujaber this bad, or are they scum?" This is the second time they've pushed some theory that's fundamentally flawed.
