Overkill 1: Serenity/Firefly (GAME OVER)

[Toogeloo]

Tora+Elsa scum team, setting up a play as a mafia doctor? Thoughts?

I've suspected for a while that there isn't a Neutral Survivor Ascetic Bulletproof Doctor from a flavor or setup standpoint, so it wouldn't take much to convince me.

Publically claiming Doc in multiball as scum would be incredibly dangerous. Especially publically claiming Doc that town has to lynch before endgame.

Yes and no... Elsa has put so many contingencies on their role that make them extremely unenticing to take action against at night. Scum in multiball know it's multiball, so it's feasible that a lie gamble might be just enough to put some attention elsewhere.

Join mine first. I'll join yours one McMenno actually engages with the game/makes it easier to sort him.

There's a little too much stank on your wagon atm.

I like Thor, so I'm willing to back him up here.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Nancy Drew Toranagate

[ruru]

votecount

With 16 alive it takes 9 to lynch.

McMenno (3):	CheekyTeeky (2024),	Elsa Jay (2079),	BuJaber (2082),
Nancy Drew Shogunate (3):	Thor665 (2092),	Flicker (2114),	Toogeloo (2175),
Not voting (10):	Jingle,	NicoRobin,	Chara,	Chickadee,	McMenno,	Reasonably Rational,	Malakittens,	Gamma Emerald,	northsidegal,	Nancy Drew Shogunate (2140),

(expired on 2018-10-29 22:00:00) remain.

[Thor665]

I’m not and you’d know this if you were familiar with my meta. I read the flip wrong. Ask anyone who’s played with me ever. I do this all the time. I’m surprised RR don’t this. Maybe Chick and Gamma?

Since I never said anything about your lack of reading the flip being alignment indicative beyond more general proof that you're not scumhunting (of which I've offered many examples) I fail to get your point here.

This isn’t even MY post. No wonder I had no clue what the hell you were talking about. Tora wrote that not me.

Well, I'm glad you waited a full phase and multiple posts to clear that up.
I'm glad Toranaga opted to never clear it up, despite me having the conversation with him also.
I, personally, kind of take this as expectation that you planned to remove me at night and are now stuck with me for another phase while I have freedom to actually advance your wagon.

Why did it take this long to have this conversation?
Also, please ask Tor to explain the derp meta on me - I'd still like to hear that one justified whichever head made the claim.

[Thor665]

Though I suppose Tor would have the defense of his alternate take on what 'active lurking' is defined as for his defense...though that just reminds me of other issues I have with your slot.

[Chara]

Cheeky, still wanted to know why Mala and Gamma are here.

Because I skim reread everyone and felt Gamma town plus mala started off towny to me. I've not liked her lurking since but I figured that's not enough to take my initial impressions away. If her lurking is scum lurking it'll become clearer.

i asked because i feel the opposite on Gamma. Mala not so much.
but more to the point, they're at the very top of your readslist so i was hoping for something more concrete, but that might just be my style when constructing those lists.

also i don't want to lynch McMenno, but i'm going to review your ISO for why you want him/Skygazer slot because i forgot, haha.

[Chara]

no wait, i mean i feel the opposite on both as in i think they're both scummy, but i see more what you mean with Mala.

[Malakittens]

Yeah once I get my computer up and running I should be able to catch up. I quit one of my many jobs to free up some time. Just give me less than a week and I’ll be up and running

[Chara]

Cerb: i'm leaning towards Toranaga's behaviour towards Elsa Jay indicating to me that they aren't aligned. if Nancy Drew flipped scum i would actually think it's unlikely Elsa is teamed. of course that doesn't account for the possibility of an anti-town third party, but it's something.

[Chara]

You want to know why AND improve the accuracy of your reads this game? I'm town. The counterwagon to a traitor flip. Even if we assume scum didn't know the traitor, a town counterwagon to another town wagon? Scum voted me.

i don't need to further explain why this line of logic doesn't really work, but the confidence with which it's asserted makes me townread it. i was townreading Jaber yesterday, anyway, once the wagons got up there.

[CheekyTeeky]

I really get out of that is that you and Menno aren't groupscum together.

To save you some time: I am town, aligned with Serenity. I am not going to respond to further suspicion from you as it's wasting both our time.

The fact that you're casting fence-sitty shade on me for weird reasons whilst not considering all my content + previously provided scum meta, just makes me even more suspicious of you.

[Chara]

NR is null rn
Nico has a bad habit of arguing why meta would prove her as town when she is scum, so without enough content there I don’t have any capability to read her
Could look at that RR vote though

keep in mind this is said with the bias of someone scumreading both slots:
Gamma/Nico aligned?

[CheekyTeeky]

also i don't want to lynch McMenno, but i'm going to review your ISO for why you want him/Skygazer slot because i forgot, haha.

I haven't really explained yet. It's a combination of Sky's TMI read on chick in light of the TPFKAP flip + gut + his reaction to my list....which was literally deflection and disappearance.

It's ok if you guys don't listen to me though because it just makes my post-mcmenno-flip-I-told-you-so more satisfying. Would prefer if we put some real pressure there though.

[CheekyTeeky]

Chara, if it helps to townread Gamma - he tries harder as scum and sound very awkward which isn't the case here imo.

[Chara]

don't know if i buy the TMI thing at all. or maybe i just didn't understand your explanation.
but from what i do understand, Skygazer's mistake (as scum) was townreading Chick while not realising, or momentarily forgetting, that scum do know their flavour.

pedit: that helps. do you have any links?

[CheekyTeeky]

The other 3 talked about how someone was town because they revealed stuff about their role PM early...therefore they were aware ONLY TOWN ROLES DIDN'T KNOW WHO THEY WERE. Whereas we didn't know if scum had flavour or not.

VOTE: McMenno

I tried to explain it here Chara. I will make a big explanatory post when I'm home. I'm on the road atm will be back tomorrow or day after.

[CheekyTeeky]

The other 3 talked about how someone was town because they revealed stuff about their role PM early...therefore they were aware ONLY TOWN ROLES DIDN'T KNOW WHO THEY WERE. Whereas we didn't know if scum had flavour or not.

I specced that too, FWIW. I thought it maybe cleared Porkens. It was like, the core hesitancy behind voting him over NR waaaaaay back.

Why would you think it cleared anyone if you assumed (from a town PoV) that scum weren't given flavour either?

And here a little

[Toogeloo]

@Mod: Were scum given flavor for their characters, or are all players flavor redacted?

[Toogeloo]

Actually, never mind. Let me rephase.

Are only town aligned players the ones without role flavor?

[Toogeloo]

This is important because the role pm from the traitor specifically states town players have had their flavor redacted. It seems to be added so that we can't just auto-confirm Chickadee (e.g.) for claiming to not know who they are, because scum know we don't know who we are. Why? Because apparently the Neutral Ascetic Bulletproof Survivor Doctor doesn't know who they are either, and 3p are not aligned with town.

[Elsa Jay]

I'll give you 2 reasons, and one of them is true.

1: the Mod implied to me since my wincon doesn't actually oppose towns, I am therefore not needing of a Flavor since those are given to those against the town.

2: I do actually know it and I'm bullshitting about saying I never knew it.

Believe either one at your own risk.

[Almost50]

@Mod: Were scum given flavor for their characters, or are all players flavor redacted?

Actually, never mind. Let me rephase.

Are only town aligned players the ones without role flavor?

Short answer: No.

The idea behind redacting flavour is to prevent alignment-confirmation through matching your role with your flavour.

So, if claiming one's flavour

would directly lead to them getting lynched

, then they got it. (there's no need to redact flavour that is indeed incriminating on it's own). Everyone else's was redacted.

Does this answer your question?

[Almost50]

This is important because the role pm from the traitor specifically states town players have had their flavor redacted. It seems to be added so that we can't just auto-confirm Chickadee (e.g.) for claiming to not know who they are, because scum know we don't know who we are. Why? Because apparently the Neutral Ascetic Bulletproof Survivor Doctor doesn't know who they are either, and 3p are not aligned with town.

I can confirm that it was indeed added (pre-game) to forewarn scum not to slip something like "I know my flavour".

[McMenno]

Interesting. Was TPFKAP possibly distancing here?

Like, just look at this, let's even accept that Nancy honestly thought TPFKAP knew exactly who their teammates were.
Is she *agreeing* that this is distancing?
Is she *disagreeing*?
Is she discussing her personal thoughts on anything?
Or is she making noise and hoping someone else will attack a slot for something?

Pedit: I am fine with you not wanting to mine. But at that stage YOU'VE ALREADY TAKEN THE DEBATE AS FAR AS IT CAN GO BECAUSE BUJABER ISN'T GOING TO CLAIM SCUM IF HE'S FAKING HIS THEORY.

I agree you can decided this for yourself and get back to us - I fail to see the point of the debate in helping you, he stated his theory, you noted your hole - thus endeth the excitement.

Sheep me on Nancy Drew?

She’s a Martyr. Isn’t that the definition of a martyr? They know who their teammates are but not the other way around? I know that was the case for scum!Wisdom in Labrynth.

I don't believe you're just playing dumb... I've only seen one player be this tonedeaf about roles

VOTE: nancy drew shogunate

sorry for not being "in"to this game, some rough days

[McMenno]

and I would request cheekyteeky to stop spreading fake news about me or have their team shoot me tonight

[Elsa Jay]

This is a bump for the VC, a new vote purely for pressure, AND me wishing everyone a happy day/night, depending where you are in the world.

VOTE: Nancy Drew Shoganate

Also so nobody can scream "DON'T LEAVE IT AT L-1 THERE'S A 3P CLAIM" Or something stupid like that.