Mini 2032: TAZ Mafia: Murder on the Rockport Limited [over]

[skitter30]

[quote="In post 2165, northsidegal"][/quote]

i'm still not really following why it's scum-indicative for him to have not reacted really

i guess i can kinda see gamma/shoshin but that would imply some sort of elaborate/confusing plot and i guess idk i don't feel like it's all that likely?

[skitter30]

gamma you also protected shoshin, right?

[skitter30]

@mod

: if A were to target B who was switcheroo'd with person C, who would A be tracked to visiting?

a tracker who targeted player A would be told that player A targeted player C.

Meh, I suppose I'll just claim. Scum already know, anyway.

I switcheroo'd myself & Skitter. Yes, I was hoping scum would try to kill me so that Skitter would die.

Gamma's obviously in a position to confirm the switch, since he targeted me last night with the food. It ended up switching to Skitter. If scum tried to kill me, it also would have switched to Skitter. But my guess is that scum didn't nightkill.

Yeah I can verify
But what confuses me is you say you tracked me to you but by what xyzzy said I should have been seen visiting skitter?

ok cool

so gamma targeted shoshin (and protected her? want him to actually confirm/deny that just to make sure everything is understood)
shoshin used switcheroo on me/her
shoshin tracked gamma to me
i got fruit

i think gamma is town because otherwise he'd have sent the fruit to a bunch of people he thought were going to die two nights in a row (creature + shoshin)

shoshin is +town too because it looks like that's where the missing nk was supposed to be since gamma protected his target (who ended up being me) and no one else is claiming blocking the nk

and that leaves two scum in nsg/nos/porkens

and i'm not really liking that nsg leapt to scum!gamma. like that narrative really only makes sense if gamma is scum with shoshin and shoshin performed the nk n1 since gamma wasn't rb'd then (if he had been he'd have to be scum with nsg but i'm assuming only 2 alive scum rn)

like i guess gamma/shoshin and like i don't think there's anything directly contradicting it but id on't think it's super likely really

like scum them would require:
*shoshin performed the nk n1
* gamma targeted his partner with the fruit
* shoshin swapped herself and me
* shoshin targeted herself for the nk

for the known night actions ot make sense and the last two are kinda ????? unlikely

just gamma scum means:
* unknown partner did the nk n1 (perhaps nsg)
* he sent the fruit to shoshin, who he was also planning on killing? (but it inadvertantly ended up at me because of switcheroo)
* he claims to have protected *someone* to explain the nk before the switcheroo comes out


just shoshin scum means:
* idk who did hte nk n1
* if we assume town!gamma, he protected shoshin and gave her fruit and it ended up at me, which means scum!shoshin swapped me/herself. it seems the protect saved the nk and since he healed shoshin (and thus me) it looks like the nk target was shoshin (and thus me) which is kinda unlikely if she is scum

none of these scenarios seem super likely to me

[Gamma Emerald]

gamma you also protected shoshin, right?

Yeah

[Gamma Emerald]

Tbh I kinda want to wait for nos/pork to weigh in despite suspecting them

[skitter30]

yeah i thought so, i just wanted to clarify and make sure everything was understood by everyone

i think that we prob no-lynch today tbh
also i think that mass-claim and flavor-claim absolutely should happen before any theoretical lynch

[Gamma Emerald]

I can claim my flavor while I’m here
I’m Petrilda, Fried Conjurer
My role is that I can make any food but everyone wants the fried unicorn dick so that’s the only thing I can vend

[skitter30]

i'm leeman kessler

i failed to get a grand relic but upon dying my death will help others obtain it
so upon dying i give out something

[Gamma Emerald]

Btw what happens if you die since you targeted yourself technically

[skitter30]

i was told by xyzzy that my role is passive and it kicks in when i die
so i can't be rb'd, it goes through ascetic, i won't be seen by trackers etc

i didn't specifically ask what happens if i ended up choosing myself because of switcheroo, but i'd guess it just goes through that too, but i can ask to clarify

[Shoshin]

Gamma, why don't you think it's Skitter/NSG? Please review Skitter's interactions with Gammagooey on D1 (not just the way she unvoted when he was put at L-1, but everything she ever says about him and everything he ever says about Skitter - specifically the way that Skitter defends Gamma when Porkens initially votes Gamma, says Gamma is null at that point, then says Gamma is town when I suggest Gamma is town, then hops on the Gamma wagon when RC (your slot) insists that Gamma's scum, and then immediately hops off the wagon when Gamma gets to L-1 so that she can push a wagon elsewhere). I'd also like you to consider her immediate strong townread on me for reasons that don't make any sense, especially since my play in this game was completely different from my play in American Presidents, which is Skitter's only previous experience with me. That townread doesn't make any sense from a town Skitter perspective, it only makes sense from an informed perspective of someone who has a scum agenda of pocketing me. And of course look at the way she led a mislynch on Reck, was happy to see Koki die but was already trying to figure out the direction for today instead of seeing his flip (suggests she knew his flip and wanted to set things up, etc.). What's town about her? Engagement with teh game isn't a town-tell for her. There's so much hedging language from her on D1 that is distinctly not characteristic of her town play. Like, c'mon. How can she possibly be town here?

[Gamma Emerald]

I’ll definitely look at it, though maybe not rn because I’m it in the mood to dive this yet

[Shoshin]

As for Pork, it's obvious he's town based on three things -- one, the simple fact that both NSG & Nos are strongly townreading him for meta reasons when at least one of those players is town (so they're telling the truth about his meta) or Pork is just town if both NSG/Nos are scum; two, the way that Pork interacted with Gammagooey on D1 just doesn't make much sense from a scum Gamma or scum Pork, as Gamma was pushing Pork's lynch (mislynch bait, remember?) and Pork jumped on Gamma for legitimate reasons; and three, NSG's point about the way Pork used his role, specifically that he created a neighborhood between three players and then scum killed one of them the next day (i.e. Creature). All of that points to Pork as town.

[Gamma Emerald]

Keep in mind I also never finished reading the stuff before I replaced in, so I can do both simultaneously I think

[Gamma Emerald]

As for Pork, it's obvious he's town based on three things -- one, the simple fact that both NSG & Nos are strongly townreading him for meta reasons when at least one of those players is town (so they're telling the truth about his meta) or Pork is just town if both NSG/Nos are scum; two, the way that Pork interacted with Gammagooey on D1 just doesn't make much sense from a scum Gamma or scum Pork, as Gamma was pushing Pork's lynch (mislynch bait, remember?) and Pork jumped on Gamma for legitimate reasons; and three, NSG's point about the way Pork used his role, specifically that he created a neighborhood between three players and then scum killed one of them the next day (i.e. Creature). All of that points to Pork as town.

This seems fair tho

[Shoshin]

Nos might actually be scum. If I'm wrong about one of NSG/Skitter, it's Nos. But here's the things about Nos that make him likely town - first, the way Gammagooey townread Nos on D1 doesn't feel like scum/scum to me, if anything it looks like informed scum talking about an actual townie; second, I think the role Nos has doesn't make much sense as a scum role, because it would just give scum too much power to get switcheroo and other items, it makes much more sense as a town role that could swing the game in either direction based on how Nos uses the role; third, Nos has played in way that is just too absurdly annoying to come from scum; and finally, the whole switch from Koki onto you in the middle of D3 is a massive town-tell in light of Koki's flip as town, because scum just have no reason to be so wildly inconsistent in switching their reads on two townies for no discernible reason when both are potential mislynches, and they especially have no reason to make one of those mislynches impossible (i.e. his strong townread on Koki) -t hat inconsistency is a massive town-tell imo. Put it all together, and I just don't see Nos as scum (and yes, yesterday I said he was scum, but that was assuming that Koki would flip scum - with Koki's flip as town, it's actually the opposite).

[Shoshin]

Finally, let's talk about NSG. She led the mislynch on Irrelephant on D1, as a direct counterwagon to scum Gammagooey. She also tried getting a counterwagon to Gammagooey on Reck, who was one of RC's strongest scumreads for personal reasons rather than actual game-related reasons (look at my arguments with NSG about both Irrelephant and Reck, both of whom were town and both who I correctly read as town). On top of that, she's been a complete non-presence ini this game, and she's shown nothing close to the level of aggressive play that she showed in POkemon (where she was inactive town but still played with a lot more care about who was lynched - here, she never showed any care about who the lynch was because all the lynches were ending up on town, and the one time there was a potential lynch on scum (Gammagooey), she actually worked to get Irrelephant/Reck mislynched on D1). And, of course, now she's suddenly townreading Skitter above everyone else, suddenly, for reasons that are so obviously faked because there's actually nothing to townread about Skitter. Like, look at NSG's reasoning ("oh, skitter is town because if she's not town who is??"). And of course she goes after you and me because, well, that's all she's got left now that I'm onto her and Skitter. And of course, it's process of elimination.

[Shoshin]

I welcome thoughts from anyone who isn't NSG or Skitter to challenge what I'm saying or to point out things I'm missing about one of them. I'm fairly confident at least one of NSG or Skitter is scum, though. No way they're both town here.

[skitter30]

a) i didn't have a strong read on gamma for much of the day, repeatedly said i found his posting to be rather off throughout, lol-voted him when asked, thought the fast wagon was suspicious, and i'm pretty sure i was v/la after that for day end. i don't know if i would have gotten back on tbh. i don't think i pushed a wagon elsewhere after that (yeah ok i checked; where did that happen?). yes, i was wrong for thinking wagon speed was town-indicative, and it's possible i would have thought otherwise if i was there, but your'e also mischaracterizing what happened

b) why don't my reasons for townreading you make sense? your early-play game looked quite a lot similar to american presidents (not so much later play like day3 and day4 and today), and so i townread you. when your play stopped looking similar my townread waned quite strongly.

c) yes i was wrong on reck. you were wrong on varsoon. being wrong is scum-indicative because ...? i was also right on irrel, creature, sircakez, kokichi, varsoon. i get tunneled sometimes (i odn't think that happened in american presidents, but i can point to lots of whether games where i have (sometimes i get talked out of it; sometimes i don't), see jungle republic ). i don't think i can push a mislynch like that as scum knowing that i'm wrong. honesly i don't think i ever have; i find it insanely hard to project something like confidence when i know i'm in the wrong (the fact that you're confidentally saying this is what i do as scum but didn't meta me here is kinda ????). like that reck push really never comes from scum!m

d) wrt to kokichi it was mechanically correct but it felt wrong on some level; i did go back and reread him a bit and i felt like he was town so i didn't vote; like i understand it was correct but it felt wrong (also quite a few of your posts wrt kokichi implied that you thougth he was flipping town so calling me scummy for this is a little cog-dissy)

(also it's a little unfair to complain that i'm scummy for saying he should be lynched for mechanical reasons when you were badgering me yesterday to lynch him for mechanical reasons)

e) engagement this late in the game is absolutely a towntell for me (hi, look at open 737 and the scum pt), why are you saying it isn't? (i get burnt out as scum and cna't really maintain active posting this long; show me a scumgame where i posted this much please)

f) hedging language is a writing style thing, not an alignment thing (i even had this argument with irrel in american presidents)

p-edit, therew were a lot of pedits

[skitter30]

i feel like you're vastly mischaracterizing my playstyle

[skitter30]

here's actually nothing to townread about Skitter.

you're actually beginnign to make me rather angry/annoyed tbh

[Shoshin]

It sucks to get caught, so I understand why you'd be angry/annoyed.

[skitter30]

i was told by xyzzy that my role is passive and it kicks in when i die
so i can't be rb'd, it goes through ascetic, i won't be seen by trackers etc

i didn't specifically ask what happens if i ended up choosing myself because of switcheroo, but i'd guess it just goes through that too, but i can ask to clarify

yeah it just goes to the person i picked last night

it doesn't get affected by other roles

[Shoshin]

Okay, Skitter. If you're town, and I'm town, and Gamma is town, who are the scum? Two of NSG, Nos, or Pork? Make a case on them that's stronger than the things I have on you.

[Nosferatu]

Nos + Porkens scum

yikes my guy