In post 3946, Vecna wrote:Your analysis is faulty, and too simplistic. Its comparable to the standard creature read, where people are just being lazy and looking at activity level (although granted this goes further, but as I said, not 100% town indicative).
My explanation is faulty and simplistic, my reasoning is neither. I was phoneposting and trying my best to be succinct about it, so I couldn't fully unpack it. Nico can be active as scum, sure.
She can also be inactive as town, too! Heck, that's common enough where she's been replaced before even though her flaking is something which happens MORE OFTEN when she's scum.
But I didn't say she was town because she was posting.
I didn't say she was town because of the crazy.
I didn't say she was town for a death tunnel.
I said she was town because of the unique combination of all of them, and specifically how she interacted with ME.
If her interactions were with YOU, then they wouldn't be town.
But her interactions with ME are what make her town.
Player history is important, and I am telling you that my history with her, and her history with me, is such that when you overlap the two, there is a nigh-soulread dynamic.
I have never read NicoRobin wrong. Across all her accounts, in dozens of games, I have always had the correct read on her. What's more--she knows it, too. She knows I have had the correct read on her every game, and she thus expects it of me to be accurate. When she first started getting engaged in the game, it was with an OMGUS scumread on me, her main attacker...but based around a WELL-JUSTIFIED burden of proficiency argument that's
not
fallacious, that IS valid.
If you assume she is town, then you can also assume that me reading her as scum is a sign that I am scum. Of course, my read changed later on, when I had a better grounding in the game and she had provided content (her lack of content was the main contributing factor to said scumread), but her initial suspicion on me was from a place I can understand as totally reasonable.
NicoRobin also has the bad habit of, when getting a scumread, not letting it go. Yes, she can do that as scum as you note, but she also does it as town so it is not a scumtell. She is highly-omgusy as town, and has NUMEROUS past games which demonstrate this. I can highlight any number of her past games which show how she attacks the people who scumread her. Look at her Porkens stance and her stance on me and her stance on jjh and Jingle, and then compare them to, say, her stance on Wisdom and then OnTheMark in
this game.
That game also contains a tremendous example of Nico changing her claim multiple times. As town.
Check her "we're masons we're not masons we're masons we're not masons" talk there and you'll get what I mean quite quickly. She was all over the place, omgusy, emotional, irrational, and highly anti-town with the shenanigans.
I can read NicoRobin almost as well as I can read Ginngie. It is a borderline-soulread. Nico's attitude here is something where, for her to be scum, you have to go through a series of hoops.
"Okay, she CAN do that thing as scum.
Okay, she CAN do that different thing as scum.
Okay, she CAN do that third thing as scum.
And I think that she, as scum, is doing all of them."
Which is an outright violation of occam's razor. The simpler explanation applies.
She CAN do those things as scum--but typically only one at a time in limited doses.
Doing them all at once is simply outside of her scum range altogether. Because the simpler explanation is, while she CAN do those things as scum, she is far FAR more likely to do them as town.
The burden of proof lies on the accuser.
So, what has NicoRobin done that is actually
scum
?
Death-tunneled? She does that as town more than she does it as scum. Not a point against her.
Changed her claim? She does that more as town than she does as scum. (Heck I've personally never seen her change her claim as scum. That doesn't mean she can't, mind you, but that gives you an idea of how infrequent it'd be in that it is a definitive aspect of her towngame.) Not a point against her.
Been active in the game? That is a solid towntell of hers albeit not to Creature levels. (Although given Creature has subverted said tell. Maybe it WOULD be appropriate to call it Creature-leveled, with the understanding of Creature-leveled being the level of Creature right now rather than the level of Creature as is his reputation.) Not a point against her.
The points against her are things which are fine as points to raise against a player in theory, but ignore that this is the reality of NicoRobin we are talking about. They aren't taking in her playstyle, her past games, her meta, her self, into account. It's policy, at best. There's no real reasons for the scumreads on her. None which hold up to scrutiny of those familiar with her to the level I am.
Nico just has a way of getting on your nerves when town, but of still trying her damnedest to gamesolve in spite of this. When you look at how she has attempted to use her role--even if it's imperfect, even if it's flawed, even if she has changed her story--you can see an attempt to use it in the way she sees best.
After all. Common consensus seems to be, "She's really a rolecop, just fudged her claim as scum". What would scum gain by rolecopping, of all people, PORKENS? Porkens is not a threat and not someone who is a high-priority check. What would scum gain by rolecopping SOMEONE WHO HAD ALREADY CLAIMED THEIR FULL ROLE?
If instead you think she's a tracker. What would scum gain from tracking these individuals?
Of course they gain nothing. What does a town player scumreading those individuals gain? A shitload of valuable information to bring forward to the town, which Nico did to the best of her ability in her own way. She's also been providing multiple reads on multiple players. Most of them scumreading her, yes, but she's put clear thought into her process and you can follow where she comes from even if you find her logic flawed.
It doesn't need to be right, and it doesn't need to be perfect, and it doesn't need to be something you agree with. You just need to be able to see how she got from point A to point B. And I am telling you I can do that, have done that, and that she is town.
In post 3937, Lady Angel wrote:What made you suddenly start to scumread me now? The fact that I want to lynch Nico, or something else?
You apparently haven't paid attention to my reads the entire game.
You've never stopped being a scumread of mine.
