A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[WhemeStar]

Shouldn’t we lynch nico I’m confused

[Vecna]

Btw Mastina, can I not convince you to just pull the trigger on one of your reads? Or on Porkens? Even though the motivation might not be completely pure, its to the towns detriment to not just keep going and clear stuff at a decent pace.

As long as the targets isnt something that is likely to get nightkilled soon, its a good target regardless.

[Vecna]

VOTE: Porkens

[Vecna]

Im almost prone to say that townclears > scum catches at this point.....even though having a confirmation scum caught to confirm that loyalty modifier would put a lot of minds at ease.

[jjh927]

Your analysis is faulty, and too simplistic. Its comparable to the standard creature read, where people are just being lazy and looking at activity level (although granted this goes further, but as I said, not 100% town indicative).

My explanation is faulty and simplistic, my reasoning is neither. I was phoneposting and trying my best to be succinct about it, so I couldn't fully unpack it. Nico can be active as scum, sure.

She can also be inactive as town, too! Heck, that's common enough where she's been replaced before even though her flaking is something which happens MORE OFTEN when she's scum.

But I didn't say she was town because she was posting.
I didn't say she was town because of the crazy.
I didn't say she was town for a death tunnel.
I said she was town because of the unique combination of all of them, and specifically how she interacted with ME.

If her interactions were with YOU, then they wouldn't be town.

But her interactions with ME are what make her town.

Player history is important, and I am telling you that my history with her, and her history with me, is such that when you overlap the two, there is a nigh-soulread dynamic.

Let's go back to Spring Fever. Scum!Yume is capable of gearing up her play specifically to be townread by one player. Credit where it is due.

I have never read NicoRobin wrong. Across all her accounts, in dozens of games, I have always had the correct read on her. What's more--she knows it, too. She knows I have had the correct read on her every game, and she thus expects it of me to be accurate. When she first started getting engaged in the game, it was with an OMGUS scumread on me, her main attacker...but based around a WELL-JUSTIFIED burden of proficiency argument that's

not

fallacious, that IS valid.

No. Why is this one-directional? Why would she incorrectly BOP you when she knows how you play? I don't want to trawl through every game you've played with Yume to find you're bullshitting again but I do think you believe this bullshit so it's whatever.

If you assume she is town, then you can also assume that me reading her as scum is a sign that I am scum. Of course, my read changed later on, when I had a better grounding in the game and she had provided content (her lack of content was the main contributing factor to said scumread), but her initial suspicion on me was from a place I can understand as totally reasonable.

Yeah okay that's my last point, except that you do admit that your read changes; you don't get to say you're never wrong in such a case.

NicoRobin also has the bad habit of, when getting a scumread, not letting it go. Yes, she can do that as scum as you note, but she also does it as town so it is not a scumtell. She is highly-omgusy as town, and has NUMEROUS past games which demonstrate this. I can highlight any number of her past games which show how she attacks the people who scumread her. Look at her Porkens stance and her stance on me and her stance on jjh and Jingle, and then compare them to, say, her stance on Wisdom and then OnTheMark in this game.

She is competent at manipulating her own meta like this. I mean, it's not hard because I think her town meta is fuck awful. But she can do it. That's why this happens in both towngames and scumgames.
[/quote]

That game also contains a tremendous example of Nico changing her claim multiple times. As town.

Check her "we're masons we're not masons we're masons we're not masons" talk there and you'll get what I mean quite quickly. She was all over the place, omgusy, emotional, irrational, and highly anti-town with the shenanigans.

And now you are personally looking at that as a way that NicoRobin can towntell, which is, in my honest opinion, her best trick. It's still that personalised meta manipulation. You are way too surface-level, macro-game.

I can read NicoRobin almost as well as I can read Ginngie. It is a borderline-soulread. Nico's attitude here is something where, for her to be scum, you have to go through a series of hoops.
"Okay, she CAN do that thing as scum.
Okay, she CAN do that different thing as scum.
Okay, she CAN do that third thing as scum.
And I think that she, as scum, is doing all of them."

I don't trust you on either, and it's partly because of your confidence there. It's also partly because I caught her as scum in a game when nobody else did, and I think it's BECAUSE I was the only one with no expectations of her. I'm gonna keep saying this; she IS capable of manipulating her town meta, and you're a total fool to be using meta solely to place her. That you townread her because of the role bullshit is exactly the reason she would do it as scum, when if she is doing it as town it is supposedly a mistake that I honestly don't think anyone could make.

Which is an outright violation of occam's razor. The simpler explanation applies.
She CAN do those things as scum--but typically only one at a time in limited doses.
Doing them all at once is simply outside of her scum range altogether. Because the simpler explanation is, while she CAN do those things as scum, she is far FAR more likely to do them as town.

This is fallacy and you should know exactly why

The burden of proof lies on the accuser.

So, what has NicoRobin done that is actually

scum

?

I still intend to get on that in detail later. However, if you want to look at mechanics, I still don't think it's possible she could have no-resulted you and you still received the message detailing the whole thing. I am also absolutely goddamn certain that she tried to kill me last night. I have fuckin magical powers that detect whenever Yume is trying to kill me in an RC upick, which have the same amount of legitimacy as your soul read claims. I can tell you for a fact that without any prompting, scum!her has belittled my play, town!her has respected it, and whatever we have here has again belittled it. Your interpretation that she is still trying to solve the game is EXTREMELY wishful thinking; she is deathtunneling 4 people, and appears to have no townreads that she is actively working with. I also think there is a tell where you can determine her angle when she talks about her own proficiency

[jjh927]

Oh oops I have a misplaced [/quote] not that that broke anything

[Nero Cain]

what i am saying is that there was never any pretense of a case in the first place

then why would you vote someone you don't scumread?

Yes, you said "I still scumread him" but those/that reason(s) are/is a case.

I like where my vote is at even if it makes my skin crawl that Sky is also voting you.

[Nero Cain]

Varsoon replaces Titus.

{Sky, Porkens, jjh, Whemestar, Firebringer, KuroiXHF, Vecna}
{Mememen, Nicorobin, Chickadee, Titus, Invisibility, randomidget, GE, Ginngie, Nero Cain, Mastina}
{Nosferatu, Lady Angel}

like TBF, Titus was dead null for you and her content was fairly scummy when she was her but what made her leapfrog 8 other scummier reads here?

[Jingle]

Hey, mastina? Why is jj town?

But mastina senpai how do you correctly sort firebringer?

-rh

He's a fire type.

But for serious, I need to go back and remember how to do that, so thanks for reminding me.

Btw Mastina, can I not convince you to just pull the trigger on one of your reads? Or on Porkens? Even though the motivation might not be completely pure, its to the towns detriment to not just keep going and clear stuff at a decent pace.

As long as the targets isnt something that is likely to get nightkilled soon, its a good target regardless.

Finally, you start making sense.

Unfortunately, mastina doesn't want to take the lynch into her hands, so we need to run someone up to L-Whatever to get a gladiate.

Shouldn’t we lynch nico I’m confused

If you think we should lynch her because she's scum, then vote for that eventuality.

If you think we should lynch her for being antitown, not in the slightest. Policy lynching doesn't work right now, please try again later.

Either way, we shouldn't be lynching rn, we should be gladiating.

We COULD leash Varsoon for a policy lynch if we need to see a flip though, which I think we should do today if at all possible. Currently, I'm thinking we use varsoon to test the deathproof claim, but to do so we need to reach a consensus on a gladiate like, now, so that we can actually have time to decide who to really lynch before using it.

[Jingle]

Nico, please ask RC my question.

"Does my action resolve as two separate actions, or is it one individual one? Specifically, if I was roleblocked between mastina being acted upon and my receiving the result, would I get the normal result or a no result? If I was rolestopped between mastina being acted upon and my receiving the result, would I get the normal result or a no result?"

[Nero Cain]

Either way, we shouldn't be lynching rn, we should be gladiating.

remind me why?

[Chickadee]

Either way, we shouldn't be lynching rn, we should be gladiating.

remind me why?

Mastina is gonna come in and Gladiate anyway.

[Varsoon]

This is a personal hell of mine
Why are we letting this game be held hostage by two players?

[Nero Cain]

Why not just lynch Mastina so we don't have to deal with this?

[Gamma Emerald]

Varsoon replaces Titus.

{Sky, Porkens, jjh, Whemestar, Firebringer, KuroiXHF, Vecna}
{Mememen, Nicorobin, Chickadee, Titus, Invisibility, randomidget, GE, Ginngie, Nero Cain, Mastina}
{Nosferatu, Lady Angel}

like TBF, Titus was dead null for you and her content was fairly scummy when she was her but what made her leapfrog 8 other scummier reads here?

Hmm I like this point

[Varsoon]

Why not just lynch Mastina so we don't have to deal with this?

I'd like that but you know what people will say
"Mastina should gladiate first"

[Nero Cain]

see, the thing is we gotta run her up so she gladiates instead of letting her let the down argue and bicker and descend into chaos...hey maybe she is scum after all.

[RadiantCowbells]

A Story Revisited

Votecount 3.159:

Nicorobin (4): jjh927, Lady Angel, Varsoon, Chickadee
jjh927 (3): Nicorobin, Porkens, Gamma Emerald
Mastina (2): Creature, Firebringer
Northsidegal (2): Nero Cain, Skygazer
Vecna (1): Jingle
Porkens (1): Vecna
Varsoon (1): Northsidegal
Firebringer (1): Mastina
Aristophanes (0):
Chickadee (0):
Gamma Emerald (0):
Invisibility (0):
KuroiXHF (0):
Lady Angel: (0):
Whemestar (0):
Skygazer (0):
Jingle (0):
Creature (0):
Nero Cain (0):
The Meme Men (0):

Not Voting: Sora, Aristophanes, Whemestar, KuroiXHF, Shiro, Invisibility

With 20 alive it's 11 to lynch.

The day will end in (expired on 2018-11-04 17:00:00).

[RadiantCowbells]

No prods I fucking love you guys.

[Varsoon]

VOTE: Mastina

[Chickadee]

VOTE: mastina

gladiate your biggest scum read

[Nero Cain]

vote:Mastina

[WhemeStar]

If you think we should lynch her for being antitown, not in the slightest. Policy lynching doesn't work right now, please try again later.

Why not

[mastina]

OH NOW I REMEMBER WHY I CAME TO PHONEPOST ORIGINALLY YESTERDAY.
I completely forgot my original purpose for coming to post yesterday.

Vecna, RC told me that he forgot to tell me that I was visited by Beavis, so. Your action did work, RC is just a moron who makes mod errors.

[RadiantCowbells]

Tt