A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[Jingle]

So you knew that NR was good at manipulating her meta when you told me that the game she was in seemed like a perfect match to what you needed to meta. Which means that it was already useless to you and you were lying about it being useful.

Like, all of this is literally proving my point that either you're lying about metaing her or you're lying about the reason behind changing your push.

[jjh927]

You still don't understand my angle.

She is good at understanding what specific people might look for. This only became a relevant point after Mastina made the defence, Mastina being the player in the game on whom she was most focused on early on

[Jingle]

My summation of the game included the fact that mastina was a mason with her in that game, and yet it was the perfect example. So by your own logic of "she was doing it to manipulate mastina" how was it "the perfect game to meta."

[jjh927]

She is, however, a relatively simple person, and I don't think concerning yourself with macro "She did this thing as town here" meta is worth it at all. You want to go more subtle on the meta. Tendencies, motivation and the like

[jjh927]

My summation of the game included the fact that mastina was a mason with her in that game, and yet it was the perfect example. So by your own logic of "she was doing it to manipulate mastina" how was it "the perfect game to meta."

Because it should be a good place to look for the subtle shit that I'm trying to test out here.

[Nero Cain]

Didn't Yume just use to lurk and flake?

[Jingle]

I'm comparing two separate circumstances wherein her behavior is an almost identical match. The difference is the target of her rage. This was a perfect ecological sample, and yet also a bad approach to meta.

These are literally opposite viewpoints

from you

. Either that game is a perfect example from which to draw meta, in which mastina's meta defense is fine, or it's not. You've taken both directly contradictory stances, because you're not trying to read NR. You're trying to lynch NR.

I've explained why the motivation is the same (and NAI) and your response is that she's manipulating that meta. I neither care nor want to read enough games in the next two days to deal with tendencies.

[Jingle]

She still does in some games, which is why I can't be arsed to look at a plethora of games for tendencies.

[Firebringer]

but she actually made a long defence post

That’s all mastina does

More words doesn’t equal better argument
Especially when 99% is filler

[NicoRobin]

You think I can possibly manipulate mastina, a God tier player?

Well, I thank you for overestimating my skillz, but be realistic here.

[Creature]

Only remember mastina making long posts which I don't remember any

[Gamma Emerald]

NicoRobin, are you DoubtingThomas?

Lolno

[jjh927]

These are literally opposite viewpoints from you. Either that game is a perfect example from which to draw meta, in which mastina's meta defense is fine, or it's not. You've taken both directly contradictory stances, because you're not trying to read NR. You're trying to lynch NR.

My meta approach is different

It's a perfect game for me to test my approach

However I disagree with the points you and Mastina made regarding that game

[jjh927]

You think I can possibly manipulate mastina, a God tier player?

Well, I thank you for overestimating my skillz, but be realistic here.

Also, your case relies on the fact that I am smart enough to reverse-pocket Titus, when that is simply not true. If I were scum, she'll snuff me out faster that you can blink.

[Jingle]

My point being simply that this game and that game both show NR going off the rails and doing stupid shit because of a perceived persecution, showing a vulnerability in her character to tunneling and a propensity towards misapplying setup knowledge that implies she would be perfectly capable of doing the same thing here, as town?

What part of that is invalid?

[Jingle]

I'm not gonna be able to post for about 12 hours. Try to do something that looks vaguely like scumhunting in the meantime, thread. I also promise to policy townread at least half of the players who are voting me at the end of that period.

[jjh927]

There's so much more of this "stupid shit"- the role related stuff- that it makes more sense that she is actively doing it because Mastina and apparently you will townread her for it as she has done similarly before and that was commented on before she went and did even more stupid shit

[jjh927]

She also had to abort the 1V1 with Mastina when she couldn't conceivably win it

[mastina]

Btw.

For the people who said *I* was holding the game hostage.

This

is what a REAL "holding the game hostage" looks like:

I am going to be imposing a new timer on this game
In (expired on 2018-10-29 00:00:00) I will use ZA WARUDO to freeze your votes and Mastina won't be able to use her gladiate today
The only way to thwart my evil plan is for her to gladiate before that time

He thinks I'd be scumclaiming by using my ability

No, not using your ability.

Doing the very thing the game is accusing ME of doing, with said ability.

Now I happen to think you're still town in spite of that.

But I fully understand where Jingle's coming from here.

Mastina could literally speed this game up but she doesn't care to do so.

Not so.
I absolutely refuse to, on the basis of speeding the game up is incredibly anti-town to do. Yes, dragging things out is also anti-town, I am fully aware of that. But speeding the game up artificially is, and shall ALWAYS be, the worse of the two evils. I would prefer a happy medium but if forced to choose between the lesser of the two, I'll choose the one which gives us the greater amount of time, content, and information to make a more informed decision.

And anybody who thinks otherwise is an absolute moron, because that is just self-evidently the right call to make.

How does mastina hipshooting her gladiates solve thread apathy?
By making people take stances upon which they can be read and interact with each other? Fuck that shit. The problem isn't with mastina. The problem is with the complete lack of anything being done in the thread.

Pretty much.

People think that me hipshooting would make people be forced to take stances?
IN WHAT WORLD DOES THAT LOGIC WORK.
Because that is literally the fucking opposite of what would happen.
By hipshooting, I would be

preventing

people from being forced to take stances. When the only choices are, "Lynch mastina, lynch her innocent, or no lynch", there's no stance to be had. There's no choice to be had. So nobody is held accountable for what they do.
When the choices are, "gladiate this person, gladiate that person, gladiate third third person, don't gladiate at all and lynch this person, don't gladiate at all and lynch that person, don't gladiate at all and lynch this third person", and so on and so forth? You know, like in a normal mafia game?

Suddenly, the stances people hold become something they can and SHOULD be held accountable for.

How do you find scum in a game of mafia?

but I've been pushing my reads and giving my opinions on the game. I'm not the problem.

No argument there.

But you're not who I'm talking about.

Mastina needs to start pressuring ppl.

And why do you think it needs to be me?

Why can't THE TOWN pressure people?

Especially since I have stated multiple times that even if I really don't like it I'll use it on the player THE TOWN dictates?

Answer me that.

Why does it need to be me?

When we had no problem with it being the town on D1.
And when we had no problem with it being the town on D2.
Why, suddenly, on D3, is there the attitude that "the town is helpless here"? Which wasn't the case the prior two days?

^Literally the problem with JJ's role. Now we not only have people not voting because they can't be bothered to play, we also have people not voting because he's threatening to take their voice away from them.

THIS is what removing accountability via your role looks like, and is what I was getting at when I unvoted.

When I said there was a flaw in jjh's strategy, and it's called "unvote", this is what I was getting at. The flaw is that, by him literally telling people that they should be unvoting. He is making it easy for everyone to do exactly that, and thus, not be held accountable for their stances/votes, because they had good reason to not vote.

I want flips that we decide.

Kuroi was a flip we decided.
You were a flip we decided.
Why's this so hard to comprehend?

Mastina want to gladiate me?

Considering you're a townread?

Why no. No, I don't want to gladiate you.

If you were the lead wagon, I

would

, but I wouldn't be happy when doing it because it'd not be what I WANTED to do.

what does ari scumplay look like

Not like this.
The lazy-man's version is "he posts, he's town; he doesn't, he's scum", but obviously, not that simple; there's nuances to it.

like I'm a pretty firm believer in Mastina should be doing more than relying on the town to do shit for her.

Oh you mean like the scumhunting I've already done?

I mean.

Yeah.

I haven't done as much as I'd prefer, there's more points I'd like on why Varsoon and Firebringer are scum in particular (it has to do more or less with how they are cruising off of the excuse of "roles invalidate us doing anything" even when that is self-evidently not the case), but I've given plenty.

Do need a proper readslist tho.

[jjh927]

I guess in a way I'm also misplacing anger at the lack of votecounts

[jjh927]

But I do think the pressure to decide on someone who you can gladiate would be really helpful if we had some way of keeping track of who wanted what

[Firebringer]

Shut the fuck up mastina

You are holding game hostage.

We are lynching you.

Get in the corner

[jjh927]

Hey fire, do you know why I know you're town

[Firebringer]

Not really and I kind of don’t care

[jjh927]

wow rude

at least I know you'd never try to nightkill me