Witches' Halloween Ball [Game Over]

[Firebringer]

You're a pretty big VI.

I am a village intelligent, thank you

[Gamma Emerald]

It’s 3

So scum team is LLD, Karmelon and [placeholder]

Agreed on Karmeleon
Why LLD?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Then we pair the remaining groups wiht the following values in mind:

Most townie remaining Lady -> Least Townie remaining Gent

by definition it'll create some TvT pairings but I think more importantly, it allows for us to put high trust targets with low trust targets. I also considered doing like 3 bad with bads for them to agree to die, but basically we need to have pairings where we can read them while also relying that there is a solid town person able to leave the dance if necessary.

I don't entirely understand this. What is the benefit of having it such that people can leave the dance? Wouldn't it be better to simply have the least townread people pair together and lynch them to kill two birds with one stone, so to speak? Killing a townread player along with a scummier player seems plainly suboptimal compared to the alternative.

---

People, be less boring

This post, plus other earlier posts reads like someone who drew scum and is really fucking excited about it. Anyone know if this player hates to be scum or anything that would preclude this tone read?

Why drew scum and is excited over simply being excited in general?

---

DVa is town

Why? I don't find anything particularly towny about the throwing out of all of those early reads.

Because what happens when you pair a bunch of low fruit with other low fruit is that people get it in their head that you're wrong about those low fruit, the low fruit won't agree to pair and what ends up happening is they take down a bunch of non-low fruit with them.

It's better to high low pair because the odds that all the low hanging fruit are scum is low. Additionally, since we're making a buffer zone for a couple of the most obivous T+T pairings, it's important as the game goes on and votes get lower, the ability to suicide leave the game. It's very important.

[Karmeleon]

Karma was looking kinda dodgy, there.

For not wanting to answer whether I'm an alt or not?

[Lady Lambdadelta]

As for the other two things

One is a tone read, I don't have a reason for thinking that beyond it just being an explanation of his(Karmelon) posts that fits well. Additionally, it doubled as an ability to draw aggro and reactions from him that would influence my read more. As you can see, he's become much more obviously scum post my pressure on him.

DVa town is a gut read based on posts. I don't explain town reads, it's anti town.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Karma was looking kinda dodgy, there.

For not wanting to answer whether I'm an alt or not?

That's not what you did and your active attempt at obliviousness is.... yeah no you're scum. Why am I arguing with you

[Moment]

It's slightly bothering me that people aren't seeming to take this seriously - even if you don't care about winning, you don't have to sabotage everyone else's chances of winning.

Who's trying to sabotage here?

Perhaps "sabotage" was a bit dramatic a term, but I just mean taking actions that don't seem very well thought out. Asking someone to dance just because "why not?" is just like voting someone to lynch just because "why not?".

---

I've been looking over some of the old dances since my /in, and wow, this game is different. Cool, though!

Is that so? From what I remember it seems relatively similar. What's different?

Several lynches per day, only 1 night kill, roster of all lovers, lynches not resetting deadline, etc.

These rules are nothing like the way I'm used to playing.

Ah, different from regular games of mafia - I thought you meant different from the previous dances.

---

This doesn’t feel right to me. He seems to be trying to subvert the argument.

Elaborate on what exactly it is you mean by "subvert the argument".

[shortaru]

We absolutely can control people's pairings. If you pair out of order, you die via lynch. Prerogative of the town. It takes two to tango, which means if you pair out of order, then two people agreed to do awful thing and that icnreases the odds at least one of you is scum.

So yeah, death for anyone who pairs early or pairs outside plan.

Good luck with that

It really will not be hard.

I promise if you pair out of order or early to spite us we will lynch you because it's anti-town. I don't care if you decide to do it as town as some kind of "message that yuo can't control people"

The fact is you don't need to flip mafia to be working for the scum.

But how do we know that you're not Mafia trying to control pairings?

There's a lot to gain for scum to decide who lovers are.

I'm going to be listening to confirmed town Radiant.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

We absolutely can control people's pairings. If you pair out of order, you die via lynch. Prerogative of the town. It takes two to tango, which means if you pair out of order, then two people agreed to do awful thing and that icnreases the odds at least one of you is scum.

So yeah, death for anyone who pairs early or pairs outside plan.

Good luck with that

It really will not be hard.

I promise if you pair out of order or early to spite us we will lynch you because it's anti-town. I don't care if you decide to do it as town as some kind of "message that yuo can't control people"

The fact is you don't need to flip mafia to be working for the scum.

But how do we know that you're not Mafia trying to control pairings?

There's a lot to gain for scum to decide who lovers are.

I'm going to be listening to confirmed town Radiant.

...

I wonder....

[Karmeleon]

Karma was looking kinda dodgy, there.

For not wanting to answer whether I'm an alt or not?

That's not what you did and your active attempt at obliviousness is.... yeah no you're scum. Why am I arguing with you

I answered your post which was "are you an alt or something?" and you say I'm dodging the question.

wtf?

[Karmeleon]

Perhaps "sabotage" was a bit dramatic a term, but I just mean taking actions that don't seem very well thought out. Asking someone to dance just because "why not?" is just like voting someone to lynch just because "why not?".

Oh right, didn't notice Kokichi was playing the game

[Sakura Hana]

Asking someone to dance who hasn't even posted yet is a questionable decision regardless of whether or not you meet the criteria for some optimal pairing. What about thinking you won't be widely townread leads to the conclusion of immediately asking someone to dance? Even further, I wouldn't take that last game as a real example of anything - from memory, you were pretty widely townread in Minuet's Trio and Forgotten Hourglass.

---

I'm leaning Gamma Emerald and Sakura scum for now. It's slightly bothering me that people aren't seeming to take this seriously - even if you don't care about winning, you don't have to sabotage everyone else's chances of winning.

Case in point

[Gamma Emerald]

It's slightly bothering me that people aren't seeming to take this seriously - even if you don't care about winning, you don't have to sabotage everyone else's chances of winning.

Who's trying to sabotage here?

Perhaps "sabotage" was a bit dramatic a term, but I just mean taking actions that don't seem very well thought out. Asking someone to dance just because "why not?" is just like voting someone to lynch just because "why not?".

---

I've been looking over some of the old dances since my /in, and wow, this game is different. Cool, though!

Is that so? From what I remember it seems relatively similar. What's different?

Several lynches per day, only 1 night kill, roster of all lovers, lynches not resetting deadline, etc.

These rules are nothing like the way I'm used to playing.

Ah, different from regular games of mafia - I thought you meant different from the previous dances.

---

This doesn’t feel right to me. He seems to be trying to subvert the argument.

Elaborate on what exactly it is you mean by "subvert the argument".

He’s distracting from the main point with an obvious truth.

[Brian Skies]

This game would have been more fun to spectate, to be honest.

I'll be back later when I care more about analyzing than laughing at some of the things that's been said so far.

[shortaru]

I don't explain town reads, it's anti town.

Wait is this true or theory?

[Moment]

Because what happens when you pair a bunch of low fruit with other low fruit is that people get it in their head that you're wrong about those low fruit, the low fruit won't agree to pair and what ends up happening is they take down a bunch of non-low fruit with them.

It's better to high low pair because the odds that all the low hanging fruit are scum is low. Additionally, since we're making a buffer zone for a couple of the most obivous T+T pairings, it's important as the game goes on and votes get lower, the ability to suicide leave the game. It's very important.

Implicit in your argument is presumption that your reads will be wrong and that a player that you consider strongly town will be scum, and thus you should play to that expectation. To that I would say that I don't think it makes sense to begin from the idea that your reads are wrong - it makes more sense to begin with lynching your scumreads. Should

that

fail, then there may be cause for concern and at that point it would be time to begin looking in the pairs previously more townread. Beginning with trying to lynch both the "scummy scum" and the "towny scum" by pairing them together seems destined to simply sacrifice a townier player for every scummier player we lynch.

Of course, this is quite abstract and a level removed from the actual people pairing together and playing the game, but on a theory level I don't think it's correct.

---

One is a tone read, I don't have a reason for thinking that beyond it just being an explanation of his(Karmelon) posts that fits well. Additionally, it doubled as an ability to draw aggro and reactions from him that would influence my read more. As you can see, he's become much more obviously scum post my pressure on him.

Perhaps I need to get my vision checked, then.

---

Asking someone to dance who hasn't even posted yet is a questionable decision regardless of whether or not you meet the criteria for some optimal pairing. What about thinking you won't be widely townread leads to the conclusion of immediately asking someone to dance? Even further, I wouldn't take that last game as a real example of anything - from memory, you were pretty widely townread in Minuet's Trio and Forgotten Hourglass.

---

I'm leaning Gamma Emerald and Sakura scum for now. It's slightly bothering me that people aren't seeming to take this seriously - even if you don't care about winning, you don't have to sabotage everyone else's chances of winning.

Case in point

You're gonna have to elaborate what point you're trying to make there.

[Sakura Hana]

You're gonna have to elaborate what point you're trying to make there.

The point that im not gonna be obvtown nor gonna be some of those supertown TvT pairings.

[shortaru]

This game would have been more fun to spectate, to be honest.

I'll be back later when I care more about analyzing than laughing at some of the things that's been said so far.

Scum equity, here.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

I don't explain town reads, it's anti town.

Wait is this true or theory?

It's both!

The concept is that by explaining what made you town read someone, it opens attack vectors allowing others to get into your blind spots.

So it's just not worth it.

[Sakura Hana]

Why are you so worried that I asked Kokichi to dance? I had decided that i'd do that since he in'd for this because he's a cool person i like playing with. Besides it's not like he has accepted or rejected yet.

[Moment]

I don't explain town reads, it's anti town.

Wait is this true or theory?

It's simply her opinion. I would disagree myself, in almost every situation I can think of.

---

You're gonna have to elaborate what point you're trying to make there.

The point that im not gonna be obvtown nor gonna be some of those supertown TvT pairings.

And so explain to me how that thought (whether it's true or not) leads to the conclusion "I should pair with someone whose alignment I have literally random information regarding"? Assuming you're town, of course.

---

This game would have been more fun to spectate, to be honest.

I'll be back later when I care more about analyzing than laughing at some of the things that's been said so far.

Scum equity, here.

I disagree. I would come to the exact opposite conclusion, actually.

[shortaru]

I don't explain town reads, it's anti town.

Wait is this true or theory?

It's both!

The concept is that by explaining what made you town read someone, it opens attack vectors allowing others to get into your blind spots.

So it's just not worth it.

By "true", I meant objective fact. Sorry for the confusion.

It can't be both. They're mutually exclusive.

So, it seems to be theory. Ok.

[Lady Lambdadelta]

Why are you so worried that I asked Kokichi to dance? I had decided that i'd do that since he in'd for this because he's a cool person i like playing with. Besides it's not like he has accepted or rejected yet.

By doing it early it shirks any way for us to plan pairings that optimize town's benefits. Additionally, doing it before KOKICHI HAS EVEN POSTED shirks our ability to try and isolate a scum and deny them a pairing.

[Firebringer]

Why are you so worried that I asked Kokichi to dance? I had decided that i'd do that since he in'd for this because he's a cool person i like playing with. Besides it's not like he has accepted or rejected yet.

Because she has a control boner she likes to flex

[Karmeleon]

One outed scum doesn't hurt