Mini 2032: TAZ Mafia: Murder on the Rockport Limited [over]

[skitter30]

Then just lynch me, Skitter. You're either scum, or you're frustratingly narrow-minded beyond the point that I'm willing to deal with today. You're clearly not going to lynch the obvious scum in NSG. And you keep trying to cast suspicion onto obvious town Gamma. What's the point of us discussing anything?

wow you're frustrating to play with

[Gamma Emerald]

Skitter acts like him presenting the crumb against nsg makes him town
No it doesn’t, in MY FIRST EVER SCUM GAME, I had the idea to present something against my buddy to distance. If that type of play occurs to me as a raw newb, it certainly could occur to skitter. That’s not a reason to clear skitter, especially in this scenario

[Shoshin]

You don't think NSG is scum? Yeah, nothing to discuss with you, Skitter.

Gamma's obvious town from the night actions, while Varsoon's roleblock clearly points to NSG as scum. And you come out saying NSG is town and Gamma scum?

C'mon, Skitter. How can you expect me to believe you're doing any of this in good faith?

[Gamma Emerald]

I used tracker on Gamma on N4 because I doubted my innocent result and wanted to see

if he'd be caught visiting the nightkill again

(after the Creature thing).

this is incredibly strange wording

why would he be 'caught visiting the nk again'? nobody caught him in the first place?

I claimed to visit the nk
If I was seen targeting the nk it would make sense to say it was me being caught visiting the nk “again” because Id already stated I’d done it once

[Shoshin]

Skitter acts like him presenting the crumb against nsg makes him town
No it doesn’t, in MY FIRST EVER SCUM GAME, I had the idea to present something against my buddy to distance. If that type of play occurs to me as a raw newb, it certainly could occur to skitter. That’s not a reason to clear skitter, especially in this scenario

Why would presenting the crumb against NSG make Skitter town if NSG is town in Skitter's mind? It's actually absurd.

[skitter30]

Spoiler:

Holy fuck, Gustavo. I didn't lie. And everyone in the game agrees with me, not you. You're just blinded by your own arrogance. And you're the one who has been needlessly combative from your very first question to me. Everyone in this game agrees with me, and if it weren't for Stun, lots of people wouldn't even townread you.

But whatever. I'm pretty tired of this, so fuck it, I'm just gonna claim because I'd rather have you invested in the game in a meaningful way.

I'm a doctor. I protected you last night.

I don't know if I'm the only doctor or protective in the game so I can't guarantee that Gustavo was the nightkill, but I'm guessing he was because it just makes a lot of sense.

I voted him today to see if I could tease out some reactions from scum. Then I decided to stop doing that because it was obviously pissing Gustavo off. I didn't think he'd actually abandon the wagon on Key because of my prodding but I guess he's obsessed with me to the point of still harping on all this lying bullshit.

And with that, I'll probably die tonight. Which is okay with me, I'm getting burned out from mafia anyway.

Now, Gustavo, stop talking about me and reevaluate the game please. I actually want your input and want you invested in this.

I thought Gus was the obvious nightkill but whatever. I'm done talking to him.

Why did you protect Gustavo @Shoshin?

I was trying to predict the nightkill while protecting one of my stronger townreads. I had Gus as strong town - his slot wasn't mislynchable because Stun was widely townread, and even Gus alone was strong town to me because his play was so different from his scum game. I also thought he expressed a strong desire to move on from D1 in a way that made me think scum would target him as a nightkill because scum tend to mistake that as a PR-tell.

In case this wasn't obvious to anyone, the reason I claimed was to try working with Gustavo. But he still doesn't want to stop tunneling me or reevaluate anything, so please address any issues you have about that to him.

ok this is what shoshin claiming looked like the last time i played with her

[Gamma Emerald]

Skitter acts like him presenting the crumb against nsg makes him town
No it doesn’t, in MY FIRST EVER SCUM GAME, I had the idea to present something against my buddy to distance. If that type of play occurs to me as a raw newb, it certainly could occur to skitter. That’s not a reason to clear skitter, especially in this scenario

Why would presenting the crumb against NSG make Skitter town if NSG is town in Skitter's mind? It's actually absurd.

I was countering his counter to my argument

[skitter30]

Skitter acts like him presenting the crumb against nsg makes him town
No it doesn’t, in MY FIRST EVER SCUM GAME, I had the idea to present something against my buddy to distance. If that type of play occurs to me as a raw newb, it certainly could occur to skitter. That’s not a reason to clear skitter, especially in this scenario

a) she

b) i really see no reason why i'd point at a rb guilty on my partner in mylo

[Gamma Emerald]

Skitter acts like him presenting the crumb against nsg makes him town
No it doesn’t, in MY FIRST EVER SCUM GAME, I had the idea to present something against my buddy to distance. If that type of play occurs to me as a raw newb, it certainly could occur to skitter. That’s not a reason to clear skitter, especially in this scenario

a) she

b) i really see no reason why i'd point at a rb guilty on my partner in mylo

a) sorry

b) for the WIFOM? What you’re doing right now?

[skitter30]

aniofanfORF

did i mention i hate xylo

i need to go back and like rearead the start of this day +
i guess track what shoshin's gamma read has been since like day2

[Shoshin]

Spoiler:

Holy fuck, Gustavo. I didn't lie. And everyone in the game agrees with me, not you. You're just blinded by your own arrogance. And you're the one who has been needlessly combative from your very first question to me. Everyone in this game agrees with me, and if it weren't for Stun, lots of people wouldn't even townread you.

But whatever. I'm pretty tired of this, so fuck it, I'm just gonna claim because I'd rather have you invested in the game in a meaningful way.

I'm a doctor. I protected you last night.

I don't know if I'm the only doctor or protective in the game so I can't guarantee that Gustavo was the nightkill, but I'm guessing he was because it just makes a lot of sense.

I voted him today to see if I could tease out some reactions from scum. Then I decided to stop doing that because it was obviously pissing Gustavo off. I didn't think he'd actually abandon the wagon on Key because of my prodding but I guess he's obsessed with me to the point of still harping on all this lying bullshit.

And with that, I'll probably die tonight. Which is okay with me, I'm getting burned out from mafia anyway.

Now, Gustavo, stop talking about me and reevaluate the game please. I actually want your input and want you invested in this.

I thought Gus was the obvious nightkill but whatever. I'm done talking to him.

Why did you protect Gustavo @Shoshin?

I was trying to predict the nightkill while protecting one of my stronger townreads. I had Gus as strong town - his slot wasn't mislynchable because Stun was widely townread, and even Gus alone was strong town to me because his play was so different from his scum game. I also thought he expressed a strong desire to move on from D1 in a way that made me think scum would target him as a nightkill because scum tend to mistake that as a PR-tell.

In case this wasn't obvious to anyone, the reason I claimed was to try working with Gustavo. But he still doesn't want to stop tunneling me or reevaluate anything, so please address any issues you have about that to him.

ok this is what shoshin claiming looked like the last time i played with her

Who cares? My claim doesn't matter to anyone's alignment. In that game, I claimed with a specific purpose without any pressure from anyone to do so. In other words, I claim when there's a purpose to doing so, regardless of pressure. I don't claim when it's pointless, like here, because it's just a waste of time and effort.

[skitter30]

i really can't imagine why i'd do that in the first place instead of just like ... pushing a mislynch

[skitter30]

you're claiming an inno on someone; i odn't understand why you think it's pointless or irrelevant

i don't understand your thought processs wrt gamma much at all

[northsidegal]

Skitter acts like him presenting the crumb against nsg makes him town
No it doesn’t, in MY FIRST EVER SCUM GAME, I had the idea to present something against my buddy to distance. If that type of play occurs to me as a raw newb, it certainly could occur to skitter. That’s not a reason to clear skitter, especially in this scenario

Why would presenting the crumb against NSG make Skitter town if NSG is town in Skitter's mind? It's actually absurd.

she was saying it as a reason for us not being partnered, not for her being town

[northsidegal]

i'm just waiting for nos and porkens to arrive

[skitter30]

yeah ok she was townreading gamma very very strongly since like day3 so that adds up

i still don't understand why she:
a) checked gamma if she was townreading rc
b) tracked gamma later

[skitter30]

or why she thinks an inno is not a relevant piece of information

[northsidegal]

i mean at the risk of sounding facetious i really think the answer to those questions are just that she's scum.

[Shoshin]

@Skitter

You're ignoring a key piece of evidence when evaluating Gamma. Don't ignore any piece. This is why Gamma is town.

Gamma came under substantial pressure on D3. He was almost lynched. He struggled to prove his role because he gave the food to NSG and lots of people (myself included) were suspicious of that claim (yes, I don't care about investigative results - you can check my previous games to check that point - innocents/guilties are too eaisly manipulated in my experience). Now, that's the backdrop for Gamma's actions on N3.

Let's assume Gamme is scum. On N3, he was under significant pressure to prove his role because he had come under so much pressure. His #1 goal would have been to avoid getting lynched. His #1 goal wouldn't have been killing Creature, who wasn't even a major threat to him (his biggest threats were players like Nos or Kokichi or even Pork, who was kind of a wildcard and would join any major wagon). But, instead of pursuing his goals (proving his role, killing a threat to his lynch), Gamma chooses not to prove his role by killing the same player that he gives food to. He also chooses to kill someone who isn't as large a threat to his life (Creature, rather than someone like Nos or Pork). From a scum perspective, the likelihood that Gamma makes this decision is very low. Like 1%. It's probability, Skitter. It's very UNLIKELY that Gamma makes this choice, in light of the substantial pressure that he faced on D3.

It's not just that Gamma gave food to the nightkill. It's WHEN he did that, and the surrounding circumstnaces of his chocie to do that, at a time when his role wasn't clearly proven and he was facing a lot of pressure and risk of lynching.

As for your claim that it doens't confirm him, you're right that it doesn't 100% confirm him. But nothing is 100% in mafia. We're talking about probabiilty. The point is that it's very UNLIKELY that he'd ever make that choice as scum.

Think about PROBABILITY here. Not POSSIBILITY. The issue is the probability that Gamma is scum/town. It's 99% that he's town here because it's so unlikely that scum, in Gamma's positoin, would choose the night actions he did.

[skitter30]

i don't know who scum is rn
i need to like re-evaluate everything

[northsidegal]

who was questioning whether or not gamma was actually a fruit vendor after i said that he gave me fruit?

[skitter30]

i can believe that you strongly believed that
i don't understand why you tracked him the next night then

[Shoshin]

i still don't understand why she:
a) checked gamma if she was townreading rc
b) tracked gamma later

a) I checked Gamma because there were some iffy interactions between RC and Gammagooey, interactions I haven't brought up yet because of the inno result. RC pushes on Gammagooey but he's also pushing for lynches on people who aren't Gammagooey, so I had this feeling he was distancing.

b) As I already explained, I tracked Gamma because of my paranoia that the scumteam was NSG & Gamma. I roleblocked NSG, but that didn't lead to anything. So at that point, I stuck with my read on Kokichi. Then Koki flipped town. At that point, I had some serious concerns that Gamma & NSG were scum, and that Gamma had faked his role and that's why he was unable to prove his role by "killing" Creature. That's a "concern," not a statement of knowledge. I'm talking about the motivating factor behind my track. I wanted to be sure about Gamma. I also knew that Creature was the one doing the nightkill if they were both scum, because I had previously roleblocked NSG. So, I wasn't planning to track NSG. I townread Nos after Koki's flip. My choice for the track was between you, Gamma, and Pork. Gamma was the person I was most paranoid about, and also the person I was closest to townreading, so I just wanted to ease my paranoia so that I could go into xylo with at least one strong townread.

[skitter30]

ok why were you most paranoid of him if you had an inno result on him? this is the part i'm not following

[Shoshin]

i can believe that you strongly believed that
i don't understand why you tracked him the next night then

Gamma's alignment doesn't turn on why I tracked him. You need to read Gamma on his own terms. I'm giving you the exact reasons why Gamma is town. You seem unable to accept the strong probabilistic evidence. Why?