Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[the worst]

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way
OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.
Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

can you rephrase this post because it sounds like you're trying to allocate motive to my posting without wanting to appear too forceful which is filthyyyy

if you're asking a question please rephrase it as an open question i can actually give a qualitative answer to if you're town FYI, I don't take well to leading questions because they're manipulative and kill conversation in favour of agenda-forcing.

Underhanded, yeeeah
But effective

That was not exactly a question. The way you combined the request for reads with the explanation of why you’re doing it felt off and lamist.
And kinda buddyish/pocketish now that I look at it
Can you comment on that?

I literally have no idea what you're asking me for here LOL
if it's in relation to a specific post can you quote that post?

sorry to be difficult but your line of questioning is really jarring with the way I think for some reason

ugh, nvm
it was the first quote in the post btw

i mean the "quoting the usual suspects and burninating scum" thing was a joke, sorry if it didn't come across that way
huh maybe that's why people thought i was scum in rvs. note to self, be moar srsbsns in rvs again.

[Keyser Söze]

Why don’t you join us on “obvious scum” Lab rat?

[the worst]

what's your read on keyser, labby?

I don't really have a read on him rn, most of his posts are tonally composed and he doesn't show many emotions besides those few posts where he seemed surprised for you SRing him and the happiness/jokiness from time to time. Like, I don't think I can read that. I'd probably need to read some of his games (or at least the ISOs) to check if he's normally that reactionless as now, but for now meh.

If there's anything I could said to have pinged me, it would be his suggestion to "never lynch him to heaven if I flip scum". Like, that was just bad and I don't get his reasoning for thinking that "the martyrs would have obviously lynched him",
Kind of seemed like a cheap excuse, but again, I don't think I'm able to tell if he really forgot about the judgment day mechanics or not so it's not a read I value strongly

idk, honestly, I've been kind of flaking with reading him, but I'll prob have to change that when I can along with my other bad reads on the nuller half of the playerlist

nnnnnnnnnhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

VOTE: Keyser
sorry my love</3

[Keyser Söze]

Ah so Lab Rat is town now?

[the worst]

I DON'T KNOW KEYSER

[volxen]

You think scum-labrat is chainsaw defending scum-me on PAGE ONE against TWO PLAYERS?

why is this so ridiculous...?
the reason chainsawing is a scumtell is that inexperienced scum players tend to do it unintentionally

I was just being OMGUS’y against you and Volxen it seems......... unwilling to accept being scum read unjustly.

[In truth though, in that scenario, ‘scum-LabRat’ was using me as a springboard to attack ‘townies’ for questioning me (who she knows is town).]

Obviously, I’m terribly wrong about everyone.

Let’s kill LabRat then “town”.

VOTE: LabRat

@TW, what do you think about this? Keyser is essentially saying that if Rat is scum, she is buddying/defending him in a similar manner to how I buddied/defended Keyser as scum in Watcher Wanted (link for anyone interested to that game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77119). As you, Irrelephant, and Keyser will all recall, as scum in that game most of my ISO revolved around Keyser, and I chainsaw defended him by attacking people who attacked him (e.g., 2.781/Huntress). To quote Keyser, my strategy as scum in that game was to use Keyser as a springboard to attack and scumpaint any townies who attacked him. Keyser is claiming that may be happening again in this game, except this time it is Rat who is buddying/defending him.

Do you think that is likely to be going on here -- do you think town!Keyser is being buddied/defended by scum!Rat? Does Rat's treatment of Keyser's slot seem similar to how I treated Keyser in Watcher Wanted, where Keyser was town and I was scum? Or do you think the interactions between Rat and Keyser are more likely SvS?

[LabRat01]

UNVOTE:
Meh, Duck’s posts got so much better. I don’t think I agree with them, but I really like their enthusiasm while talking about their TRs
Not overly townie, but I'm ok with it rn

And I’m not a fan of volxen’s read on me.
The arguments he uses feel underwhelming compared to how much time was he willing to waste writing it
read prob coming soon

why did you unvote me here if you don't think I'm town but are blindly sheeping others?

I'm clearly wagonable in this gamestate. Look at the VCs for D1.
Why didn't you vote volxen here? Can you show me which parts of it felt underwhelming, and why you think that's scum indicative?

lmao, you're doing the same thing here you accused me of.
if you said the answer to your question inside the question, it's making it difficult for me to answer differently.

I unvoted you because I don't think you're the optimal lynch anymore. My previous read on you was rather flimsy and the new one is flimsy as well, but goes in the other direction
Besides, I think there are better people to push rn that I don't even have a flimsy read on


ugh, I was going to, then got freaked out that sth is wrong because of his other post and forgot
the freakout was dumb and my reactions to it were dumb, but I won't really do anything about it now
now I'm kind of waiting for irre's answer to the stuff about their meta, cuz he seemed confident so I want to check it out before I do anything else :/

[LabRat01]

yeah post 99 was.. a post
did you have any other reasons or?

also, read on Keyser?

besides the stuff I know about the mod, not really?
but I didn't really care about that tbh

[Keyser Söze]

Let’s lynch LabRat!

For the posts about the role pm, defending me on page 3 and 4 and stuff she did

[the worst]

@TW, what do you think about this? Keyser is essentially saying that if Rat is scum, she is buddying/defending him in a similar manner to how I buddied/defended Keyser as scum in Watcher Wanted (link for anyone interested to that game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77119). As you, Irrelephant, and Keyser will all recall, as scum in that game most of my ISO revolved around Keyser, and I chainsaw defended him by attacking people who attacked him (e.g., 2.781/Huntress). To quote Keyser, my strategy as scum in that game was to use Keyser as a springboard to attack and scumpaint any townies who attacked him. Keyser is claiming that may be happening again in this game, except this time it is Rat who is buddying/defending him.

Do you think that is likely to be going on here -- do you think town!Keyser is being buddied/defended by scum!Rat? Does Rat's treatment of Keyser's slot seem similar to how I treated Keyser in Watcher Wanted, where Keyser was town and I was scum? Or do you think the interactions between Rat and Keyser are more likely SvS?

In short:

most likely: SvS
second most likely: town!labby / scum!Keyser
then: scum!labby / town!keyser
probably never: TvT

[the worst]

there's always gonna be arguments for one way or the other but it's pretty natural that an argument which rings true to your scum meta will resonate with you

i think it's possible, just think keyser has higher scum equity than labby rn even though i don't like labby's posting

[volxen]

@TW, what do you think about this? Keyser is essentially saying that if Rat is scum, she is buddying/defending him in a similar manner to how I buddied/defended Keyser as scum in Watcher Wanted (link for anyone interested to that game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77119). As you, Irrelephant, and Keyser will all recall, as scum in that game most of my ISO revolved around Keyser, and I chainsaw defended him by attacking people who attacked him (e.g., 2.781/Huntress). To quote Keyser, my strategy as scum in that game was to use Keyser as a springboard to attack and scumpaint any townies who attacked him. Keyser is claiming that may be happening again in this game, except this time it is Rat who is buddying/defending him.

Do you think that is likely to be going on here -- do you think town!Keyser is being buddied/defended by scum!Rat? Does Rat's treatment of Keyser's slot seem similar to how I treated Keyser in Watcher Wanted, where Keyser was town and I was scum? Or do you think the interactions between Rat and Keyser are more likely SvS?

In short:

most likely: SvS
second most likely: town!labby / scum!Keyser
then: scum!labby / town!keyser
probably never: TvT

@TW,

Why would town!Rat chainsaw defend scum!Keyser in these two posts thugh?

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way
OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.
Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.
Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

I agree they could simply be scum together. But if one of them is scum and one of them is town, scum!Rat and town!Keyser seems far more likely to me than scum!Keyser and and town!Rat.

[Keyser Söze]

there's always gonna be arguments for one way or the other but it's pretty natural that an argument which rings true to your scum meta will resonate with you

i think it's possible, just think keyser has higher scum equity than labby rn even though i don't like labby's posting

You can post your whole scum case on me now please.

I have the right to defend myself to the witnesses present.

[LabRat01]

That’s just incredibly lazy

Labby what parts of this post do you think actually indicate that volxen is not aligned with the town?
I think you're just tunnelling his playstyle and think he should die for it. if you're town I need you to reassess this asap because you're aggressively driving us off a cliff by clogging the thread up with posts which don't actually advance any gamesolving :(

yeah, I'm waiting for that rn... I should prob do some research before pushing people I don't know, but on the other hand it's so time-consuming... xd

If you're talking about the stuff I said about volx being lazy, I think kaiser explained it somewhere rather well
I just find it odd that he'd just go in the thread, post a read on me, which was partially based on me hindering the process of "town forming their reads"
while he did close to nothing to progress that himself and he disappeared as soon as he posted the read on me. If he cared about town getting their reads, I'd assume that he should have idk... at least asked some questions or interacted with the other players a bit instead of just (mostly) tunneling one? The VCA reads don't count as interacting with the other players imo. Like, they were good, but also rather safe and I didn't get the feeling that they changed the game in any way

Their response to my response was a bit better though. Like, idk, I still think my thought process on this was rather correct (not necessarily that he's scum, but more that it should be SR, because it's weird), but I'll just wait with saying anything more till I read some of their games
preferably tomorrow, cuz I'm going to sleep soon

btw, is your TR on him also based on meta or just the content of the post?

[the worst]

@TW,

Why would town!Rat chainsaw defend scum!Keyser in these two posts thugh?

if she were reading him incorrectly I guess
chainsawing isn't something scum EXCLUSIVELY do (i probably chainsaw slightly more as town than as scum because i'm conscious of it as scum)
don't think this is a smoking gun on s!lab / x!keyser

[the worst]

btw, is your TR on him also based on meta or just the content of the post?

90% content, 10% is just a buffer that i've seen his scumgame and think it's less likely this is fake

[LabRat01]

Btw, Keyser’s baffled reactions to TW SRing him so hard feel really natural. That’s not anything I’d feel safe basing my read on him, but I think I can rather fairly say that they’re not SvS

you didn't find Keyser's tone shift and reaction to be too much?
I actually felt it was unnaturally dramatic. I'm pretty sure the town!Keyser I know and love would have given me an equally shitposty response to my question about you and him being scumbuddies. But instead he flipped his lid. :(

-_-
no, considering how dramatic your actions were, I definitely don't see him being overly dramatic there
I don't know him nor you, but both of your posts were giving me a freaking migraine, which I still don't think I can read in any other way than I did

[LabRat01]

Yes, if you could, I'm off to bed now, its fairly ate. If not I can do it tomorrow afternoon...?

seems we're in a fairly similar time-zone
just in a sec

[LabRat01]

wait, wtf is going on

[the worst]

hhhmmm?

[LabRat01]

@TW,

Why would town!Rat chainsaw defend scum!Keyser in these two posts thugh?

[...]

I agree they could simply be scum together. But if one of them is scum and one of them is town, scum!Rat and town!Keyser seems far more likely to me than scum!Keyser and and town!Rat.

I'm not gonna comment on the interaction reads, because it's already giving me a headache

can you elaborate on your read on keyser?
and you didn't respond to my last response to your read, so can you elaborate on the read again?
(if it's still the same thing, can you comment on my responses in 380)

[ManateeDude]

@mod, the VC is incorrect. For example I voted for LabRat in this post:

Did you know?

Lions and tigers can crossbreed to create a species known as Ligers..

Votecount 1.03

the worst (3) - LabRat01, Keyser Soze, Irrelephant

Keyser Söze (2) - Lefty, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
Carmen (1) - LabRat01,
Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde (1) - Carmen
LabRat01 (1) - the worst
Not Voting - Creature, volxen,

Time till end of hell phase 1: (expired on 2018-11-15 17:00:00)

I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum among [TW, Rat, Keyser, and Rel]. I don't think it's that likely that TW, as town, would get up to L-2 so quickly on the second day of day one with no scum involvement.

I don't think TW and Rat are scum together, with them cross voting each other, and with TW's detailed casing of Rat. It seems really unnecessary for them to try to mutually distance themselves and start wagons against each other this early on day one if they are scumbuddies.

I do wish TW would case Keyser to the same degree that he has cased Rat, but he seems to want to hold back on this for some reason.

Out of [TW, Rat], Rat definitely has far more scum equity in my opinion. TW's casing of Rat felt genuine, whereas Rat's interactions with others came off as scummy to me. For example:

wanna check it for me?

Nah, it's not there.

VOTE: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

aww, that's a shame VOTE: carmen
I'm p sure some form of it should be there though, cuz the bracket thingy is written in my RC
wanna check it again? or are you lying in order for someone to notice this "contradiction" and derp you as town?

ugh, I was talking about the town RC if it wasn't obvious

I was re-reading the thread and noticed that my post could be understood as a disgusting joke
that vote was half-serious, it was not pure RvS, so read it as so

and c'mon, someone write sth
it's boring being here alone

I don't think Rat really had a good reason for "seriously" voting Carmen here, and she did say that the vote was "half-serious".

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way

OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.

Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

Why did Rat make such a big deal about this? All TW did was ask Lefty what he thought of Keyser's entrance -- I don't see how that's really LAMIST, which is what Rat seems to be implying here. Yes everyone should be sorting players and coming up with their own reads, but there is nothing wrong with asking player X what they think about player Y, as long as you are still sorting everyone else in addition to that. Rat seems to be suggesting that TW want's other people to sort Keyser for him so he doesn't have to do the work of sorting Keyser himself, which I don't think is accurate at all. She is also suggesting here that TW's motivation in asking the question was to appear LAMIST, as opposed to him actually wanting to know what Lefty thought of Keyser's entrance.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.

Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

Again, here Rat is criticizing someone for asking a question regarding Keyser. I don't think her criticism of Lefty was really warranted here -- he asks a question about Keyser, and she insinuates that his reason for asking the question was to appear like he was doing something, as opposed to it being a question he genuinely wanted answered. In other words, she is again suggesting that the motivation behind the question was to purposefully appear LAMIST, as opposed to it just being a question that Lefty wanted answered. It's just odd that on two different occasions, two different people ask a question about Keyser, and Rat attacks (unreasonably IMO) both TW and Lefty for asking their respective questions about Keyser. I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town.

VOTE: LabRat01

I guess I will vote again.

I fixed it in a later edit im p.sure

[ManateeDude]

E

[ManateeDude]

F

[ManateeDude]

G