Witches' Halloween Ball [Game Over]

[Firebringer]

it is directed at maria

[MariaR]

No, I also don't understand your push on RC prior to the dance flipping.

Like I kinda think if you were town you would have just chilled, waited for RC to be dead, and then pushed people on sheeping him post death

Instead it feels like you wanted the moral highground of him having flipped his read on you pre-death

I'm not that big of an egotistical maniac. I asked RC if he really thought people would sheep his plan and that he'd be better off explaining why someone was scum over his top 4 being town. That is all I did and you're pushing me for 2 statements because you don't know how to read me. Do you know how-I'ma stop here

[DVa]

Now you seem to be flailing.

Am I scumreading you now Maria?

[Sakura Hana]

First of all town only loses if deadline runs out for second dance with at least 1 mafia alive no?, but we really should try to be lynching today, I'm going to make a stand and not move my vote, I'm dying tonight anyways so I could care less at this point.

[Firebringer]

Now you seem to be flailing.

[RadiantCowbells]

i came out and said why I'm voting dunn/maria it's fundamentally based onn associative

you are in some sense correct that my push on you has been intellectually dishonest but my pushes are always intellectually dishonest because the real reasons I push people aren't sexy and enticing and it does NOT mean that my play is incorrect. this is something that you should be used to and using it as an attack on me is ??? given that I claimed Ventriloquist was scum because they posted 3 times consecutively even though notepad obviously exists. sometimes the real reasons people are scum aren't enticing to people and it's easier to just lie and not have to explain why something that to the untrained eye is NAI is super telling. the fact that LLD was super set on those Dunn/LLD and Cakez/Maria pairings is super telling, and to me it was super obvious that 1 of the 3 was the case. I do not believe her just randomly setting up TvT pairings makes much sense because if everyone is town, dunn/maria softconfirming each other helps LLD stay alive but Cakez/Maria reaches endgame first and LLD hasn't set a paper trail for defending her buddies, so the Maria/cakez pairing is far more likely to reach endgame because Maria at the end could easily convince Dunn to leave and LLD would know that.

So, in terms of scum pairings either

1) LLD wanted Maria paired with Cakez to keep scum him alive and wanted Dunn with him so maria/dunn could each get pocketed by one scum and townbin each other and they'd win together

least likely

or 1/2 of

1) LLD wanted to be paired with scum!Dunn and was worried that Maria would suss something was up potentially and really pushed for that pairing and also set someone up for Maria to make her happy
2) LLD wanted to keep Scum!Maria and Town!Dunn apart so she hard tried to steal Dunn as a partner so that she could prevent a Maria/Dunn pairing that scum evidently felt would end up backfiring on Maria.

That's why I think you need to die as a pairing, you cover 2/3 of the explanations for why LLD was obsessed with dunnstral and why her pairings were what they were.

[MariaR]

I'm holding myself back from yelling at you because you really upset me and I don't want to be tr for ate but I know if I make a statement about how I feel I'll either be tr for it or get called fake

[MariaR]

Dunn is town RC.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like you say that you're not angry but what cause do you really have to be angry. you started attacking me for calling you scum and I eventually retaliated.
i'm not only angry because having all my accomplishments discredited and unrecognized is so, so standard of MS these days that it barely even registers, i'm more pissed because it comes from people i consider friends.

[RadiantCowbells]

maybe you're not, then.

[MariaR]

I knew you'd say that

[RadiantCowbells]

My LLD interaction reasoning supersedes any of my player reads. I thought and still think by play both of you are more likely to be town and I'll hold to that even if you both flip scum but I think it's more likely I'm wrong on my reads on you guys than my reads on LLD. And if it's just Cakez then sure it's just Cakez but this has to happen before endgame.

[DVa]

Like, it's simple. I feel like you, as town, would be like no. "Brian" or whoever isn't lock town. You're wrong on this, RC. We should redo the top 4.

Instead you're like, "Let's drag this out for a while as deadline gets close right when the plan seems to be solidified."

I have a hard time seeing town motivation from your choice, particularly when you have said you didn't actually disagree with the logic of the final 4.

Nor have you said you want to be in the final four, or proposed another pairing.

So what has been the point of this big fight?

[Dunnstral]

During the dances, normal nightless lynch mechanics will take over. A lynch will NOT reset the deadline. If the Mafia makes up 50% or more of the remaining players at any point, Mafia immediately wins. If all of the Mafia are lynched, then Town wins. If the game runs out of time and at least one Mafia is still alive, then Mafia wins.

@Sakura doesn't differentiate between first dance or second dance in the rules

With that said, town has the ability to leave the dance before deadline so it's not a huge concern (that is, as long as we're not being super boneheaded)

[MariaR]

You can't read me RC and you're just pushing me at this point to save your ego and it's pathetic

[MariaR]

Like, it's simple. I feel like you, as town, would be like no. "Brian" or whoever isn't lock town. You're wrong on this, RC. We should redo the top 4.

Instead you're like, "Let's drag this out for a while as deadline gets close right when the plan seems to be solidified."

I have a hard time seeing town motivation from your choice, particularly when you have said you didn't actually disagree with the logic of the final 4.

Nor have you said you want to be in the final four, or proposed another pairing.

So what has been the point of this big fight?

I DID SAY THIS.
I DID SAY HALF THE SHIT YOU ARE SAYING RIGHT NOW

[DVa]

Spoiler:

Now you seem to be flailing.

Fire, let's dance next game ok?

[DVa]

I DID SAY THIS.
I DID SAY HALF THE SHIT YOU ARE SAYING RIGHT NOW

so why is brian not even a part of the conversation at this point then?

[Dunnstral]

Here are my reads:

I believe the way MariaR was acting when pairing up was towny, and she got mad in me in the pt because she thought I was tricking her in a way that seemed genuine, Right now I think it's really likely she is town

Firebringer is leaning town - he could be scum, sure, but I'm not optimistic about lynching him and finding scum
Gamma I can't really read, again not optimistic on finding scum here, with that being said I don't see a reality where this pair makes it to end of the game without being lynched anyway - sorry guys

Shortaru/Nancy - I'm thinking probably scum, a lot of the stuff he's said is really dodgy looking back at it with the perspective that he wasn't a new player, I remember at one point I asked him to expand on something and he ignored it twice - this is my scumread right now - I'm pretty sure this slot won't survive until the end of the game (DVa will probably leave before that point)
DVa - I still think she's been obvious town, and it seems most people agree with that (unless I'm mistaken..?)

Sircakez - I don't have a good track record of reading this guy, poe makes me want to scumread him but reading his iso makes me want to townread him
Malakittens - I think she's town

Brian - More town than not - still, I'm not completely convinced that this isn't scum
Chibi - I'm pretty convinced this is town, though

Kokichi - Leaning town, wouldn't exactly be surprised if he was scum though, he doesn't really give us a lot to read him off of
Princess - Could definitely be scum, hasn't done much but what she has done has had me raising my eyebrows

[MariaR]

Of course I wanna be in the final 2 pairings but that's never going to happen because it's me. You just admitted you can't read me so you're clinging on 2 posts and justifying the sr on that logic. Like
pedit: Dva stop talking to me please before I do something I regret let me put it simply.

You are finding every reason to cling to your sr to me because you can't read me and you're unwilling to change your mind. That is just wrong and makes the lack of wanting to play regardless of what side I'm on. I have shown you that you're outright wrong and you refuse to look at that. I proved you wrong but you still try to twist it for no reason

[Firebringer]

holy shit i am watching code ment.

i can't believe i forgot about this hilarious shit.

I am dying

[MariaR]

Hey fire if I leave would you look at Gamma for me

[Sakura Hana]

During the dances, normal nightless lynch mechanics will take over. A lynch will NOT reset the deadline. If the Mafia makes up 50% or more of the remaining players at any point, Mafia immediately wins. If all of the Mafia are lynched, then Town wins. If the game runs out of time and at least one Mafia is still alive, then Mafia wins.

@Sakura doesn't differentiate between first dance or second dance in the rules

With that said, town has the ability to leave the dance before deadline so it's not a huge concern (that is, as long as we're not being super boneheaded)

if the

game

runs out of time, the end of the game is at the end of the second dance.

First dance will end if there are 12 players or fewer left alive

or deadline is reached.

During the intermission, Mafia may secretly force one of the dance pairs to leave. Second dance will then begin,

and continue until the game's end.

[Dunnstral]

or 1/2 of

1) LLD wanted to be paired with scum!Dunn and was worried that Maria would suss something was up potentially and really pushed for that pairing and also set someone up for Maria to make her happy
2) LLD wanted to keep Scum!Maria and Town!Dunn apart so she hard tried to steal Dunn as a partner so that she could prevent a Maria/Dunn pairing that scum evidently felt would end up backfiring on Maria.

I know 1 is untrue and think 2 is an unlikely scenario

Didn't you just say I couldn't read Maria? That that was an objective fact?

Why do you think 2 is a likely scenario?

[DVa]

Yeah but this debate has not been about Brian

You haven't really critiqued the fundamental feature of RC's plan, which is one locktown pairing, and one "not scum together" pairing to ensure town gets the win by eliminating one scum.

And, like, it's not a secret that I'm pretty likely to leave as soon as we flip one more scum, because the strategic significance of the second pairing at that point is irrelevant.

So if you want to fight Brian being in the final pairing, then make that the fight. Because looking at your reads list, there's no one to replace that pair. There's no *better* pairing that actually makes it to endgame

so yeah, what's the point? You're not proposing a pairing over brian? you're just kinda grumpy about it or what?