Mini Normal 2041 [Game Over]

[OkaPoka]

VOTE: DDL

[Gamma Emerald]

anyways case on ddl could be typed but alternatively you could go to the DDU game, go to page 2 of katyusha's iso, ctrl+f "stating" and see katy's case on me about stating motivations and creating narratives vs genuine scumhunting

gamma is just a player who
has no fire to their spirit. if ur going to vote me and call me out for my bullshit then you need to be a little more combative than that

Lol don’t let DDU mislead you, I can fight real hard, I just dislike fighting losing battles these days.

[Sephiroth]

Down with oka wagon VOTE: okapoka

I need to think about the claims. I'm not gonna lie, I can 100% see A50 faking this gunsmith claim. He puts a shit town of prep into his meme-y posts and its totally within his scumrange to post this absurdly long breadcrumb just so he has it lined up for the fake claim later.

Mew, why did you wait so long to claim non-ascetic? Any reason you didn't say so almost immediately?

[Sephiroth]

In fact I'm surprised people are taking A50s claim this seriously.

[Mewtaph]

The claim was not voluntary.

It was forced.

[Mewtaph]

VOTE: DVa

This or A50 can go 10/10 times before Oka.

[Sephiroth]

The claim was not voluntary.

It was forced.

How do you figure? Its more like he slowly softclaimed and then worked his way around to full claiming. I don't see any way in which you could say A50 was forced into claiming. He even acknowledges that it wasn't an optimal play and that he did it because he was annoyed at Dva nagging him. Prompted maybe but forced seems like an oddly inaccurate way of describing how that went down unless I'm just misreading things.

[Mewtaph]

The claim was not voluntary.

It was forced.

How do you figure? Its more like he slowly softclaimed and then worked his way around to full claiming. I don't see any way in which you could say A50 was forced into claiming. He even acknowledges that it wasn't an optimal play and that he did it because he was annoyed at Dva nagging him. Prompted maybe but forced seems like an oddly inaccurate way of describing how that went down unless I'm just misreading things.

My Ascetic claim.

[Mewtaph]

Mew, why did you wait so long to claim non-ascetic? Any reason you didn't say so almost immediately?

Here.

[Mewtaph]

OK, well, let's see what Mew says since you targeted him, but at this point it might be better if she said whether she targeted Mew before Mew claims

It does if she was blocked. She wants to see if a) her target would claim Ascetic/Hider/Commuter, or b) Someone claims RB/JK and then claim they targeted her.

also outs the entire power structure of the town at the risk that you just confirm someone is ascetic, which isn't even alignment indicative

[Sephiroth]

I must be dumb because I still don't follow. I thought you claimed non-ascetic, and that you didn't claim anything until just recently. Still not understanding your 'ascetic claim' forcing A50 claim when you didn't claim ascetic...?

[Mewtaph]

Seph, let's catch up here before I claimed non-ascetic. DVa and A50 postured in my slot to force this out of me. Now my next post will explain why this process looked scummy to me when I participated in interacting with their slot.

[Mewtaph]

1) Nako declares V/LA
2) DVa shades Nako and says I should claim.
3) DVa states that Nako's hypoclaim as tracker bringing the suggestion of a mass claim, rather than actually enforcing it as "foolish at the risk that you just confirm someone is ascetic, which isn't even alignment indicative".
4) I don't claim.
5) DVa doesn't ask me again specifically for an Ascetic/Not Ascetic claim, skips that process of questioning and makes a case on me.
6) This case is heavily based around the idea that Ascetic is alignment indicative.
7) I claim non-ascetic.
8) DVa approaches me in the intent of making sure that I look as scummy as possible for "withholding my Ascetic claim" which "cannot possibly be town motivated".
9) He explicitly shows that my non-Ascetic claim is not AI but that me withholding that information is AI.
10a) DVa is intending to out the entire power structure of the town.
10b) My non-ascetic claim makes the town PRs clearer to scum at no immediate benefit to town.

[Mewtaph]

Nako suggests a mass claim and brings it into discussion.

DVa states, I think it could be possible to break a 13p closed setup with a mass claim. Let me figure out if this is correct or not - doesn't bring it into discussion.

There is a difference.

[Mewtaph]

It is definitely possible that A50 is not a gunsmith and can just be a scum (likely investigative) PR.

They admit that they played like garbage on D1 (which they did).

Then A50 is accepting/advocating a case on me entirely based on "I'm withholding Ascetic or not".

If A50 is town and he makes the opening he does on D2, it is inconsistent for him to jump to the conclusion of me being Ascetic over him being roleblocked.

If they are scum, they gain more clarity on where their night actions should be going.

If they are town, they gain more clarity on what? Whether it is plausible to gamesolve the setup through a D2 massclaim. I find that hard to believe.

[Mewtaph]

Conveniently, both players have seemed to have entered each other's "blind spots" when considering their mafia scum pool. DVa said A50's read progression is genuine and mine is fake. Their proposed scum pool seems to be: {PP, Seph, DDL, Mew} based on their post to me. They stated they have town leaned PP so putting him in his pool for me to choose from makes no sense because that implies that you think they are mafia (DVa is fine with the players in that pool being lynched). A50 shows no qualms with helping a wagon on me led by the same player that they pushed at the start of D2 - not damning, but not a good look.

[Mewtaph]

I read DVa and A50's exchange more as scum theatre rather than TvT that both players happened to come out of it in agreeance that each other were both town. That is not the outcome you reach when they clearly fought each other in frustration and anger. That leads me to believe this is more likely staged than real.

[Mewtaph]

Going to sleep now. Bye.

[DVa]

I'm thinking optimal play is for the masons to choose both the lynch and the vig shot, if we have a vig.

That might be better than mass claim given the roleblocker.

If Mew is town, I think I understand his frustration with me, but he needs to understand that we are dealing with two possible scenarios, one in which there is a vig, and one in which there is not.

If there is a vig, then a mass claim may very well indeed be optimal play, since that would also imply a doc save.

If there is not a vig, then a mass claim would not be optimal.

This creates a conundrum and I think masons choosing lynch and shot is the closest we get to a solve.

[Sephiroth]

I really hope the masons are masons and not just pulling a gambit. As has been noted they haven't really been shining stars of town play since claiming.

[Sephiroth]

Like I get where you're coming from but if they aren't actually masons and we do have a vig, you just fast laned us to losing the game with that strategy.

[Joey_]

I really hope the masons are masons and not just pulling a gambit. As has been noted they haven't really been shining stars of town play since claiming.

Being claimed mason makes me lazy and less competent, hence why i hate claiming and was pissed for being outed

Also, im really busy atm and only have an hour or two at nights to read so im doing what i can do

[Kokichi Oma]

I really hope the masons are masons and not just pulling a gambit. As has been noted they haven't really been shining stars of town play since claiming.

Been busy. But I personally think mew is scum, Joey disagrees

[DVa]

Yeah I'm not sure we can get consensus on that even if I think it might be optimal play here, particularly because despite having 6 implied tprs we nonetheless have 0 hard confirms, and the numbers there are really concerning because that's basically too many for all of them to be real. It's also concerning because we now have 3 hard claims and 3 really obvious softs, and the scum already know at least some of which are real and which are not.

But while I know I'm wrong on something, it's hard to tell what exactly I'm wrong on, and continuing to interrogate my different theories basically would force a mass claim so I'm struggling to figure out what we're actually supposed to do here. I don't want the vig to shoot a tpr, assuming the vig is both real and isn't heavily gated anyway. And at this point we might have to just accept we need to prioritize dayplay because with the scum roleblocker and the outed gunsmith our investigative abilities are probably fucked anyway

[Almost50]

My reads are the same. My vote is still intact.