Mini Normal 2044: Game over!

[Irrelephant11]

sashaddin what do you think of reaper

[Raya36]

I am going to be honest I was a little excited because I thought caught scum early on but now I'm not as sure.

This response seems towny. Scum would be likely to be more persistent since nothing I said really screamed town in my opinion and scum could've easily kept pushing. This shows re-evaluation.


Irrelephant did have a pretty bad entrance but this is really uncalled for:

garmr/skitter definitely town
clemency/bji/sashaddin prob town
VOTE: raya

Terrible entrance, non effort reads. Scum or worthless town, kill it either way.

UNVOTE: Clemency
VOTE: Irrelephant11

That is a really weird conclusion to immediately jump to as town. Most town would want to talk about the reads instead of immediately calling him out as scum or worthless town who needs to be lynched. Seems a little reachy and like an overreaction to me.

I'm questioning what I was saying earlier about bji just trying to get us out of rvs now. This makes 2 incredibly reachy pushes.

I'm a little worried that maybe he was trying to give them a bad rep right from their opening posts. If someone is called out as scummy early on that can be influential to later reads without even really thinking about it. It could make pushes later on easier.

Yeah I'm not liking bji either now. One reach was excusable, but this second one seems even more forced. Especially how he ended it with "irrelphant being a null read but worthless if town so should lynch anyway."

Exactly my thoughts! It's weird though because I don't see scum actually thinking this would work to get a lynch but I certainly don't see this coming from town. That's why I'm thinking it was meant to be a light push that could be used to his advantage later on in the game.

Yeah I'm not liking bji either now. One reach was excusable, but this second one seems even more forced. Especially how he ended it with "irrelphant being a null read but worthless if town so should lynch anyway."

Ended with? That's what I started with. You should pay closer attention.

What are the two reaches? Do you mean the two instances where I actually tried to progress the game instead of sitting back and playing safe?

This response is not good either. Sounds like he was trying to discredit him by suggesting he wasn't paying that close of attention. The second part doesn't sit with me well either.

VOTE: bji

@skitter @irrelephant (and anyone else)
Why are you both leaning away from scumreading bji now?


(I'll respond to you soon Skitter)

[Clemency]

that's L-1 btw

[Irrelephant11]

@bji did you know it was L-1?
@clemency want to vote raya with me? Personally I think L-1'ing Bji does not match the strength of the case raya is making/reads sorta agenda-y. Agree y/n?

[skitter30]

@skitter @irrelephant (and anyone else)
Why are you both leaning away from scumreading bji now?

i mean i think i explained already why i don't find much of what he did to be scum-indicative; what part of that do you disagree with?

also i find the following to be kinda townie:

I was hoping to see how things played out a bit further before saying this but I think now is probably most appropriate: I am not sure my reads on Garmr can ever be trusted. I want Garmr to be scum and I want to lynch him. Garmr is the only player in this game that I have ever knowingly played with before, and I do not want to create bad blood here so early in the game, but it was not a pleasant experience.

that he acknowledges that he wants garmr to be scum and that he is biased but that he is aware of the bias and that he can't super trust his read on him

i'm not super liking that you put bji at l-1 at this stage tbh, where flubber has done nothing and sash and reaper haven't really either; it feels a little early and opportunistic to me tbh

i also feel like the above question to me was a little busy-work-y given that i talked about him *a lot* on the previous page imo

VOTE: raya

i think i'd like to go here for now

[Irrelephant11]

ebwop

@

raya

did you know it was L-1?
@clemency want to vote raya with me? Personally I think L-1'ing Bji does not match the strength of the case raya is making/reads sorta agenda-y. Agree y/n?

[skitter30]

@clemency want to vote raya with me? Personally I think L-1'ing Bji does not match the strength of the case raya is making/reads sorta agenda-y. Agree y/n?

oh i hadn't even gotten this far when i wrote my last post, yeah i agree with this tbh

[Garmr]

Oh l-1 ok. I feel people panic to much when someone hit's l-1. That being said
UNVOTE: Bji
I don't want the day to end yet.

Was going to give a few thoughts of the people I haven't mentioned yet since I'm having trouble sorting them.

Sashaddin-kinda a fluffy poster as most of his posts are fluff his none fluff post mirrors my reads a bit so I do like that.

Skitter- Post walls information. Some of it is fluff some it actual information. Doesn't really progress the game much but not really scummy. I think his actions will dictate his alignment more than what he posts.

flubber-flubber is flubber so a compromise lynch.

Reaper of souls- nothing game relevant.

I'll keep my thought on irrelphant to myself .







@Skitter Going through walls it ta bit hard Since it's so unfocused I'd rather if you did a wall that focus's on one player per post. Keeps my thoughts on track and is easier to digest. That's personal bias through...

[Irrelephant11]

I'll keep my thought on irrelphant to myself .

?

[Garmr]

I'll keep my thought on irrelphant to myself .

?

???

[skitter30]

@Skitter Going through walls it ta bit hard Since it's so unfocused I'd rather if you did a wall that focus's on one player per post. Keeps my thoughts on track and is easier to digest. That's personal bias through...

sorry, i try to make them readable (i disagree that they're unfocused tho)

i usually use '==' to signify that i'm talking about something else, and quote the post that i'm responding to

[skitter30]

(also i'm a she btw)

[Irrelephant11]

I'll keep my thought on irrelphant to myself .

?

???

I'll admit this made me laugh, but why keep your thoughts about me to yourself?

[Sashaddin]

sashaddin what do you think of reaper

Of his seven posts? Well 4 is rvs. Posts 50, 80 and 112 , 121 are not scumhunting posts, so I'm not reading anything so far.
This leaves 94 and 166. In 94, I'm not sure I'd agree with TvT but Reaper seems to know Clemency for some time, so he might see more clearly than I do about this. He then removed his rvs vote, which is null to me because I do this myself.

In short: He's a lurking null read for me.

[Garmr]

(also i'm a she btw)

Sorry will remember that.

[Garmr]

I'll keep my thought on irrelphant to myself .

?

???

I'll admit this made me laugh, but why keep your thoughts about me to yourself?

Because I'm still deciding things and don't want it to affect your play to much.

[Raya36]

@sash and reaper
Either of you have any thoughts on the bji/clemency exchange?

I thought bji appeared a lot more scummy to me than Clemency
Tunneling over a single idea, so soon, appears a lot more scummy than Clemency's posting.
I must also say that I don't take what happens in RVS too seriously either. It's the time of the game when people get to know each other and when rookie scums vote their partner to distance each other

You're right
I sort of agree. I think bji might've been genuinely just trying to get us out of rvs plus it did work. But I do see where you're coming from. Could've been scum trying to put some early sus on a towny. Clemency's reaction as I said seemed genuine, I'm just not sure from which alignment. Both could react this way when frustrated imo.

this post feels kinda fence-sitty to me, on both bji and clemency

Clemency - town
Bji - scum

-I think his playstyle makes him lynchbaity/easy to mislynch

why does clemency strike you as lynchbait-y?

Just his playstyle and reaction. Seems like if scum could spin it right and get the right reactions out of him he could be easy to get a mislynch on. Also his reactions in general could easily be interpreted as scummy.

-bji had a good point about him being a 'chatty opener'. It is possible for scum to open chatty so they can easily get a town leading role and it is possible he was faking reluctancy ot taking this role. This is when I started to hesitate on him being town for sure but alone this is a weak reason to scum read someone.

yeah but he said he doesn't like the town-leading role so i still don't get why he'd purposefully put himself in that position

That's what I mean by faking reluctancy.

Bji:
-Seemed to be putting in a genuine effort to get us out of rvs (town points)
-His 'attack' on clemency was weak but it was good for the start of the game and did bring out some interesting reactions (town points)
-did have a good point about him being a 'chatty opener'
-Like Clemency seemed intent on starting the game. Something scum would likely not do as I explained above. (Town points)
-I also did consider he could've been trying to put some sus on clemency but I'm not convinced this is the case

what's your holistic read on bji?

At the time of this post town. Now it is scum.

@Raya did you know it was L-1?

I was unaware. I considered checking to be sure but I didn't think it was even close. I would've still voted but had I realized I would've said it was L-1.

@skitter @irrelephant (and anyone else)
Why are you both leaning away from scumreading bji now?

i mean i think i explained already why i don't find much of what he did to be scum-indicative; what part of that do you disagree with?

also i find the following to be kinda townie:

I was hoping to see how things played out a bit further before saying this but I think now is probably most appropriate: I am not sure my reads on Garmr can ever be trusted. I want Garmr to be scum and I want to lynch him. Garmr is the only player in this game that I have ever knowingly played with before, and I do not want to create bad blood here so early in the game, but it was not a pleasant experience.

that he acknowledges that he wants garmr to be scum and that he is biased but that he is aware of the bias and that he can't super trust his read on him

i'm not super liking that you put bji at l-1 at this stage tbh, where flubber has done nothing and sash and reaper haven't really either; it feels a little early and opportunistic to me tbh

i also feel like the above question to me was a little busy-work-y given that i talked about him *a lot* on the previous page imo

VOTE: raya

i think i'd like to go here for now

I disagree with him not doing much scummy. When I get an opportunity I'll look back over his iso though. I tend to get lost in wall posts and may have missed stuff.

This is a good point though. I see a post like that coming from town way before I see it coming from scum.

Ugh I need to reconsider again

UNVOTE:

[bji]

@bji did you know it was L-1?

I did not know it until I read it just now.

PEDIT: I've caught further up and I'm no longer L-1.

@clemency want to vote raya with me? Personally I think L-1'ing Bji does not match the strength of the case raya is making/reads sorta agenda-y. Agree y/n?

I propose a scenario where Raya is scum with either ReaperOfSouls or Flubbernugget. A few reasons:

1. The feeling I get from Raya is that she's playing kind of solo right now. Like she's out there on her own trying to carry the scum team while her partner in crime is lurking, either intentionally (game plan) or unintentionally (real life reasons? Just don't care that they're dragging the game down?). Some evidence:

I've played with Skitter and Flubber before and I think that's it. It's been a while since I've played though so I'm just going to pretend I don't know anybody and start fresh.

Acknowledges playing with Flubber before but wants to start fresh - possibly doesn't want anyone to consider any interaction with Flubber from prior games when evaluating their relationship this round, which would be convenient if they were the scum team and Raya was sensitive to being judged in interactions this game with Flubber against interactions in previous games.

2. First post is "Hey Everyone!" and voted skitter. OK presumably she is voting a player she's already played with before for laughs but ... why pick skitter over flubber? Skitter happened to end up being an active player, flubber not. If my theory is correct then it would be quite the coincidence that for skitter and flubber, only flubber has ended up being a non-player.

3. I genuinely believe that scum is more likely to lurk and replace out than town. I have played scum before and in my opinion it is much more work than town. It is not fun to spend an entire game with the feeling that you are being hunted (not for me at least), you have the added pressure of feeling like one slip up from you will cost the entire game whereas town doesn't get that generally until very late in the game when in LYLO or close to it. Also for me at least, lying doesn't feel good, at least until I get used to it within the first day or two of a scum game. And I think that playing scum well takes alot of careful work to ensure that you do not say anything that can be shown to be contradictory or unusually inconsistent later (which is why I like to pressure people because I want that tangled web to be even more tangly for the scum to make their job even harder and more likely to slip up). And finally, in my actual experience, scum does replace out more frequently (although I only have like 7 games evidence and so the data set is small). So for these reasons I think it's more likely for a casual player just looking for a "fun game" to decide it's not worth it to have to play scum. And hey presto, flubber is currently the least contributory player and most likely to replace out.

4. I sense super inconsistency on how her reads are being applied. When my push was on Clemency she wrote alot of text giving great detail about why she would call it TvT with careful analysis of several points for and against a scum leaning for both me and Clemency (post 132). But then later, when I applied a very similar push style against Irrelephant, she was immediately suspicious (post 201) and suddenly my early push which was in her initial evaluation "a good attempt at getting out of RVS and thus town" is lumped in the category of "2 incredibly reachy pushes". And she switches to a vote on me. My play style did not change between my first and second pushes -- but what did change was that Garmr was suddenly attacking me for them, and it feels opportunistic for Raya to change her evaluation of my first push just so that she could follow Garmr on a wagon against me.

Sorry I am at work and I have alot to catch up on in thread so give me a minute ...

[bji]

And before anyone says it, YES some/all of those reasons are reachy. At this point in the game it would be fairly impossible for them not to be.

[bji]

I think an L-2 on Raya is the right thing at this point in the game. Her post 216 has confirmed this for me.

UNVOTE: Irrelephant
VOTE: Raya

[Raya36]

Rvs vote was because I knew Skitter. Just random between him and Flubber.

The bit about not playing in a while and wanting to start fresh is because I don't trust past experience with them to be something that can influence my read on them. You are more than welcome to look at my interactions with them in the past.

I'll agree that my reads are inconsistent. I'll also admit that it isn't usual of me. I generally tend to decide what I think early on and get trapped in confirmation bias. I used to have trouble reevaluating well. Now I'm reevaluating too much.
We can talk more about those reads if you want to?
I know I have a lot to do as far as rereading and trying to decide what my stance is so if you have anywhere you want me to start in particular I don't mind.

[skitter30]

I disagree with him not doing much scummy. When I get an opportunity I'll look back over his iso though. I tend to get lost in wall posts and may have missed stuff.

This is a good point though. I see a post like that coming from town way before I see it coming from scum.

Ugh I need to reconsider again

UNVOTE:

explain again why you unvoted here?

==

Acknowledges playing with Flubber before but wants to start fresh - possibly doesn't want anyone to consider any interaction with Flubber from prior games when evaluating their relationship this round, which would be convenient if they were the scum team and Raya was sensitive to being judged in interactions this game with Flubber against interactions in previous games.

i actually played a game with both of them, where raya was scum (and repped out fairly early) and flubber was town

she rvs'd him and answered a question from him, but that was it before she repped out

there was an early argument between two players there that she called tvt (and was indeed tvt) - if she's scum she did something kinda similar with clem/bji and may have townspewed them imo

==

@raya: can you clarify your read on bji please?

[Raya36]

I invoted because I'm really unsure of my read. I don't have much time now but tonight or tomorrow I'll go over bji's iso and attempt to form a more solid read on him.

[Flubbernugget]

replace out

I am extremely sorry

[Lady Angel]

Votecount 1.4:

Bji: 2 (Clemency, Sashaddin)
Clemency: 1 (Flubbernugget)
Raya36: 3 (Irrelephant11, Skitter30, bji)

L-2

Not voting: ReaperOfSouls, Garmr

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 will end on December 1st, 2018 at 3:30 PM PST or 16 days, 22 hours, and 23 minutes from this post.

The following players have not posted since the last votecount and will be prodded if they have not posted before the next one, unless they are V/LA: ReaperOfSouls

Seeking a replacement for Flubbernugget. If I do not have one within 72 hours, the game will be paused until I find a replacement or have to modkill the slot.