Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[Eragon]

:3

921 is a v v wolfy post

:3

[Keyser Söze]

Uh oh Eragon

[Eragon]

Uh oh Eragon

wat?

[Eragon]

getting off school bus will bbl

[Keyser Söze]

@Eragon - Read mine and Irrelphants posts regarding Dr J (in terms of his playstyle).

Yes, Dr J is still a top end t/lean. Not a full seasoned town read though (Imma waiting for two specific things first).

[Keyser Söze]

Now would be a good time for Creature to turn up (nope I’m not “coaching my teammates”! )

[Keyser Söze]

Mostly for coming out of reading DrJ with a strong townread
and wanting him to be town because I like him

I love how we can work together, while resting our hands on our holsters, ready to blow eachother’s heads off. That felt healthy.

[Eragon]

@Eragon - Read mine and Irrelphants posts regarding Dr J (in terms of his playstyle).

Yes, Dr J is still a top end t/lean. Not a full seasoned town read though (Imma waiting for two specific things first).

Strong town lean.
Destined for heaven.

ok I just reliazed you said "strong town

lean

*

my b

[Eragon]

Mostly for coming out of reading DrJ with a strong townread
and wanting him to be town because I like him

I love how we can work together, while resting our hands on our holsters, ready to blow eachother’s heads off. That felt healthy.

:thonk:

[Eragon]

Ausuka has replaced Lefty, thanks!

wow lmao.

NSG/dunn/huntress/tora/nauci when

I just skimmed eragon's ISO

Someone else said they saw a strong start. I didn't see that, all I saw was basically a lot of fluff there. Without knowing any meta of him I can't really draw substantial conclusions as to his alignment from that. I like the tone of his posts, but that's about it. I also noticed in his post on creatures iso, there was a lot of IIOA. I think town will tend to do that actually day 1, since it's about all the scumhunting they can do at that period. Wheras scum, especially newscum doesn't have to scumhunt with the benefit of foreknowledge so they will probably just fluff around not doing much - at least, that's what I did end up doing in my other two games. When you see someone posting a case with IIOA maybe later on that's more scummy imo. Basically what I'm saying, IIOA at this stage would be evident of genuine effort which I think scum probably won't do at that stage

I'm putting that down as slight town based on that

for me...
that start is hella strong
i actually did things in my first 10 posts.

what do you mean by "newscum"?

(and whats IIOA again )

AUSUUKKKKAAAAAAA
watchmen wanted reunion hype \o/


you scum?

HYPE

Sure, if this is a WW reunion I have to get called opportunistic at least once right?

VOTE: Creature

OPPORTUNISTIC

jk u gud fn fam

Uh oh Eragon

i still don't get what this uh oh is about?

[Eragon]

Also, where the hell is Creature? I just realized that he's in the game trying to see who we haven't heard from.
If Creature keeps up this activity, I think its very safe to assume that he is scum.

-Kor

Did you know?

Lions and tigers can crossbreed to create a species known as Ligers..

Votecount 1.03

the worst (3) - LabRat01, Keyser Soze, Irrelephant

Keyser Söze (2) - Lefty, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
Carmen (1) - LabRat01,
Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde (1) - Carmen
LabRat01 (1) - the worst
Not Voting - Creature, volxen,

Time till end of hell phase 1: (expired on 2018-11-15 17:00:00)

I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum among [TW, Rat, Keyser, and Rel]. I don't think it's that likely that TW, as town, would get up to L-2 so quickly on the second day of day one with no scum involvement.

I don't think TW and Rat are scum together, with them cross voting each other, and with TW's detailed casing of Rat. It seems really unnecessary for them to try to mutually distance themselves and start wagons against each other this early on day one if they are scumbuddies.

I do wish TW would case Keyser to the same degree that he has cased Rat, but he seems to want to hold back on this for some reason.

Out of [TW, Rat], Rat definitely has far more scum equity in my opinion. TW's casing of Rat felt genuine, whereas Rat's interactions with others came off as scummy to me. For example:

wanna check it for me?

Nah, it's not there.

VOTE: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

aww, that's a shame VOTE: carmen
I'm p sure some form of it should be there though, cuz the bracket thingy is written in my RC
wanna check it again? or are you lying in order for someone to notice this "contradiction" and derp you as town?

ugh, I was talking about the town RC if it wasn't obvious

I was re-reading the thread and noticed that my post could be understood as a disgusting joke
that vote was half-serious, it was not pure RvS, so read it as so

and c'mon, someone write sth
it's boring being here alone

I don't think Rat really had a good reason for "seriously" voting Carmen here, and she did say that the vote was "half-serious".

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way

OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.

Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

Why did Rat make such a big deal about this? All TW did was ask Lefty what he thought of Keyser's entrance -- I don't see how that's really LAMIST, which is what Rat seems to be implying here. Yes everyone should be sorting players and coming up with their own reads, but there is nothing wrong with asking player X what they think about player Y, as long as you are still sorting everyone else in addition to that. Rat seems to be suggesting that TW want's other people to sort Keyser for him so he doesn't have to do the work of sorting Keyser himself, which I don't think is accurate at all. She is also suggesting here that TW's motivation in asking the question was to appear LAMIST, as opposed to him actually wanting to know what Lefty thought of Keyser's entrance.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.

Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

Again, here Rat is criticizing someone for asking a question regarding Keyser. I don't think her criticism of Lefty was really warranted here -- he asks a question about Keyser, and she insinuates that his reason for asking the question was to appear like he was doing something, as opposed to it being a question he genuinely wanted answered. In other words, she is again suggesting that the motivation behind the question was to purposefully appear LAMIST, as opposed to it just being a question that Lefty wanted answered. It's just odd that on two different occasions, two different people ask a question about Keyser, and Rat attacks (unreasonably IMO) both TW and Lefty for asking their respective questions about Keyser. I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town.

VOTE: LabRat01

here is another post where you call creature out simply b/c he hasn't posted but forgot volxen again

What if the team is {Lab, Creature, TW}?

-Kor (to both)

[Eragon]

i get that activity is the way to read creature, but its hard to read someone on activity when they dont post in the game at all?

so i just feel its REALLY weird that you called out creature and think he's scum, but you didn't even give a candle to volxen

[Eragon]

im doing a volxen ISO now, so instead of requoting that mega intro-post


-its not hard to say theres at least one scum in {TW, Rat, keyser, irrel} when that makes up 4/9 of the playerlist, 4/8 if you consider yourself as town, meaning that takes up 50% of the playerlist remaining.

so calling at least one scum is actually a granted,

the rest of that passage was fine but like either alignment can easily post that.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
accusses rat for voting carmen half-seriously without reasoning in post 16

just feels opportunistic of rat's semantics tbh.

not all votes have good reasoning, especially when its not even off the first page of the game yet.
plus rat said it was half-serious, meaning there was some joke in there, although also some serious.

but on that note, serious /=/ well-reasoned.
serious votes can be votes without reason to cause pressure
serious votes can be gut pings that you can't articulate
Serious votes can be something you see but are scared to share(i guess? i dont really know on this <:)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ye i agree with this, but also i see it as surface level like all those words add up to "why are you making a big deal and why do you think its LAMIST and why are you suggesting he isnt trying to do work"
i dont mean its scummy, this part is just NAI
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is it false though?
:^)

btw same as the above.

and then the vote.

So really the reasoning for the vote is "hes being too pushy saying that people are LAMIST and making too big a deal out of nothing"
not unnaceptable, but the tunnel on rat pings me, especially with the assumptions going on.

[Eragon]

do i kill all you guys with a massive wall or do i spoiler it and then no one will read it...

choices choices

[Eragon]

i give thou fools 5 minutes to decide

[Eragon]

I decided to spoil it beacause im nice and it hurt my eyes

Spoiler:

actually
VOTE: Creature

lynch this today for 11/10 guaranteed scumflip
send Dr. J to heaven tomorrow

if Lab/Keyser are town they can prove it

Why do you think Creature is scum, and why is he a better lynch than Rat?

asking "why is he a better lynch" is simply busywork that is always opinionated depending on reads.

@volxen putting associations, VCA and scum partner theories aside, are you t/reading the worst independently?

I don't feel comfortable giving TW a townread yet, no. I do think he made a good case against Rat, especially in post 297, and I do find Rat to have the most scum equity at the moment, but I'm not ready to write off TW as town yet either.

Where I am currently at is I find Dr. J to be the most towny player and Rat to be the most scummy player. I'm still kind of unsure on everyone else.

@Keyser, I am starting to get concerned that if Rat is scum, you could be one of her partners. As I pointed out earlier, it was just odd how quick she was to attack two different people for asking, in my opinion, completely legitimate questions about your slot. If she is scum it's possible that she is simply buddying/defending town!Keyser, but the way she wanted to shut down both questions about Keyser's slot could be indicative of SvS interactions. Keyser, if Rat is scum, why is TW more likely to be one of her partners than you?

But in any case, do you really think TW would gambit as scum and try to get his one of his scumbuddies sent to hell on day one? I would consider that quite a risky gambit because if he does that, then the only way he could win as scum is if both he and his remaining scumbuddy get sent to Heaven. So unless he's convinced that both he and his other scumbuddy could get a lot of towncredit for busing Rat, it seems like quite a risky play to open on day one by busing one of his partners in a game mode that, in my opinion, heavily discourages busing.

i have pretty good vibes about this post.
the fact they are going back and forth on reasons that TW is town but maybe should'nt be written off yet strikes me as truly trying to solve the slot, as in, not just insta-towning the slot,
the stuff about keyser too, "its possible that this is ____, BUT also it could be [opposite], but THIS [proves the first point].
the question is NAI

also the stuff about TW is really true as well, "do you think TW would gambit this" "[explains why it would probably be a bad choice] [gives reasoning it might not be a bad choice] [comes back with conclusion]"
feels like a towny thought process from all angles instead of tunneling a single point.

You think scum-labrat is chainsaw defending scum-me on PAGE ONE against TWO PLAYERS?

I don't think it's too far-fetched that scum!Rat would chainsaw defend one of her scumbuddies against two players. And her two posts where she attacked both TW and Lefty for asking a question about your slot were on pages three and four, not on page one:

boom gottem :^)
serious note: i do see this, and although im not used to (normally) scum hard-defending other scum, i've heard people do it often here? but another note is Scum!rat chainsawing town!Keyser for towncred and/or bad associations with keyser,

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way
OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.
Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

This was at the bottom of page three.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.
Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

And this was as the top of page four.

And both posts were written within seven minutes of each other, which makes it even more odd.

the stuff about seven minutes is ???

first off, wouldn't that be expected his posts are near each other???
plus saying that its odd is borderline angleshooting and you shouldn't use that ever.

Out of [TW, Rat], Rat definitely has far more scum equity in my opinion. TW's casing of Rat felt genuine, whereas Rat's interactions with others came off as scummy to me. For example:
[quote="In post 307, volxen]

wanna check it for me?

Nah, it's not there.

VOTE: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

aww, that's a shame VOTE: carmen
I'm p sure some form of it should be there though, cuz the bracket thingy is written in my RC
wanna check it again? or are you lying in order for someone to notice this "contradiction" and derp you as town?

ugh, I was talking about the town RC if it wasn't obvious

I was re-reading the thread and noticed that my post could be understood as a disgusting joke
that vote was half-serious, it was not pure RvS, so read it as so

and c'mon, someone write sth
it's boring being here alone

I don't think Rat really had a good reason for "seriously" voting Carmen here, and she did say that the vote was "half-serious".

First off, volx seems to have read the thread till duck’s posts, so he should have also been aware of the whole conversation between me and korina. I don’t feel like going all over it again and this argument is

exactly

the same one I’ve been arguing with Korina about.

If he does fully understand why I pushed Carmen, I find it off that he’d find it important enough to mention here.
and if he disagreed to my answers to Korina’s pushes, he should have quoted those posts, not this one.

Him not doing that and including the exact same reasoning kinda feels like he made the argument just “to make the read look more townie/impressive” and doesn’t actually care to think about it seriously

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way

OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.

Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

Why did Rat make such a big deal about this? All TW did was ask Lefty what he thought of Keyser's entrance -- I don't see how that's really LAMIST, which is what Rat seems to be implying here.
Yes everyone should be sorting players and coming up with their own reads, but there is nothing wrong with asking player X what they think about player Y, as long as you are still sorting everyone else in addition to that.
Rat seems to be suggesting that TW wants other people to sort Keyser for him so he doesn't have to do the work of sorting Keyser himself, which I don't think is accurate at all.
She is also suggesting here that TW's motivation in asking the question was to appear LAMIST, as opposed to him actually wanting to know what Lefty thought of Keyser's entrance.

This one is actually fair, except the “why did rat make such a big deal of this?” part.
This is nearly the same thing as in the last part of the quote, but it’s more visible in the quote there, so just read it there, but it feels kinda fake to me that a player who’s capable of writing an elaborate analysis like this one would base his reads on reasons that are just so obviously wrong.

And the way he defended TW was funny imo. Prob too daring to be SvS, but I don’t think I can say anything more about that

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.

Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

Again, here Rat is criticizing someone for asking a question regarding Keyser. I don't think her criticism of Lefty was really warranted here -- he asks a question about Keyser, and she insinuates that his reason for asking the question was to appear like he was doing something, as opposed to it being a question he genuinely wanted answered. In other words, she is again suggesting that the motivation behind the question was to purposefully appear LAMIST, as opposed to it just being a question that Lefty wanted answered.
It's just odd that on two different occasions, two different people ask a question about Keyser, and Rat attacks (unreasonably IMO) both TW and Lefty for asking their respective questions about Keyser.

Yes, I think Lefty’s post was lamist. I don’t think it’s necessarily scum indicative though, because awkwardness and not knowing what to write early in the game is not really scummy. Both town and scum can feel that way and even though his question/post wasn’t sincere imo, both alignments could have had their reasons for doing it.
The read was kind of a push, but it was also a suggestion to do sth else, because even if they’re town, their motivation isn’t difficult to notice and it’s gonna get them lynched if they keep doing that for a long time.

I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town.

VOTE: LabRat01

Here he pushes me for pushing others instead of asking for their motivations, which I find funny coming from someone with such a high game-count.
Even regardless of how many games he played, I find it hard to believe that a player who’s capable of writing such an elaborate analysis of my posts would be unaware that “pushing people” “allows you to read them better” and progresses the game, which is necessary at any point of the game.
Like, c’mon, he did play a lot of games on the site so he should have realized that if people ask questions, they’re most likely gonna get calm, composed answers, which aren’t really gonna help you do anything. Of course some people might just not like pushing others without a reason, but it doesn’t mean others can’t do that and everyone who pushes people early is scum.

Like, I really don’t want to believe that he’s being serious here. Him pushing me for that feels like he was just forcing himself to find a looong, non-sheepy reason for me being scum, without actually caring if it actually makes sense or not.
This post is long and I’ll give him credit for saying that the reasons behind my pushes were bad (even though they weren't), but the main part of it is just terribly empty.

And I don’t like how he disappeared right after writing that. Except the short VCA reasoning and TR on duck, he hasn’t done anything to progress the game, not even asking questions which he was pushing me for.
That’s just incredibly lazy

P.Edit…
Which just changed, so ignore that part.

If you are town, you are really misunderstanding why I am scumreading you -- or you are deliberately trying to misrepresent me if you are scum. I am not against aggressively pressuring and pushing people. I do it myself all the time, and I have even put someone at L-1 on page one of a newbie game as town (see: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77453) precisely because I wanted to pressure that person. The last thing I am against is pressuring people to see how they react.

No, my problem is that you tried to

shut down/discourage

legitimate questions from both TW and Lefty, both of which were questions about Keyser's slot. In your post you seem to be setting up this false dichotomy where a choice has to be made between questioning someone vs pressuring someone. Why does it have to be either or? You can certainly ask people legitimate questions while simultaneously pressuring them. You want to push TW and Lefty to see how they react? Fine, but you shouldn't be trying to shut down and discourage the legitimate questions they asked about Keyser's slot.

THAT

is what I have a problem with -- you could have pressured Lefty and TW without trying to shutdown their questions about Keyser.

The first one you quoted didn't shut it down, it pushed them for the questioning or whatever happened. the second one you quoted "no, dont do that" which yes, shuts its down, but not extremely forcefully IMO, but i do see where you are getting at(and you used false dichotomy which im fine with giving you a /s townread for :3)

I'm struggling to see the town motivation in trying to shutdown both of their respective questions about Keyser. I mean, if TW and Lefty are both town, think about it from their perspective. If they are both town, and they find one another to be townie, doesn't it make sense for them to talk to one another about Keyser, especially if they are both trying to get an accurate read on Keyser? I mean this is a team game after all, so it makes sense to discuss your reads and other slots with people you find to be towny. So they ask legitimate questions of each other about Keyser's slot, and then you come along and within seven minutes, write two back-to-back posts where you basically call both of them LAMIST, and tell both of them that they are wasting time by asking each other questions about Keyser's slot. But why call it a waste of time -- why assume the questions they were asking each other wouldn't help both of them get a better read on Keyser? Because if getting answers to their questions would help them to better sort Keyser, then it would be a pretty good usage of time, no?

yada yada yada "theres no town motivation in stopping their talking, and you shutting their legit questions down is wolfy" done.

and again, STOP WITH THE ANGLESHOOTING OF "7 MINUTES APART"
(not that it even affects anything because IT MAKES SENSE THE POSTS WOULD BE BY EACH OTHER BECAUSE THATS WHEN HE'S POSTING)
you're make good reads this game volxen, i like that, but when you start grasping for straws like that it just annoys the fuck out of me.

Again the problem isn't that you were aggressive towards TW and Lefty, it's that you tried to "redirect" them away from talking about Keyser and questioning each other about Keyser, when I don't believe you had a legitimate reason for doing so. So yes, for now I am quite skeptical of your motivations.

VOTE: LabRat01

this tunnel is getting a bit unsatisying
we get that you scumread labrat strongly
we really do.
( i quoted the vote here because it was the easiest to quote. its not neccesarily what im referring to in this)

You think scum-labrat is chainsaw defending scum-me on PAGE ONE against TWO PLAYERS?

why is this so ridiculous...?
the reason chainsawing is a scumtell is that inexperienced scum players tend to do it unintentionally

I was just being OMGUS’y against you and Volxen it seems......... unwilling to accept being scum read unjustly.

[In truth though, in that scenario, ‘scum-LabRat’ was using me as a springboard to attack ‘townies’ for questioning me (who she knows is town).]

Obviously, I’m terribly wrong about everyone.

Let’s kill LabRat then “town”.

VOTE: LabRat

@TW, what do you think about this? Keyser is essentially saying that if Rat is scum, she is buddying/defending him in a similar manner to how I buddied/defended Keyser as scum in Watcher Wanted (link for anyone interested to that game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77119). As you, Irrelephant, and Keyser will all recall, as scum in that game most of my ISO revolved around Keyser, and I chainsaw defended him by attacking people who attacked him (e.g., 2.781/Huntress). To quote Keyser, my strategy as scum in that game was to use Keyser as a springboard to attack and scumpaint any townies who attacked him. Keyser is claiming that may be happening again in this game, except this time it is Rat who is buddying/defending him.

Do you think that is likely to be going on here -- do you think town!Keyser is being buddied/defended by scum!Rat? Does Rat's treatment of Keyser's slot seem similar to how I treated Keyser in Watcher Wanted, where Keyser was town and I was scum? Or do you think the interactions between Rat and Keyser are more likely SvS?

the question to TW is good. the post is well reasoned.
so whats YOUR thought about what you just posted.
what do YOU think.
similar to what someone said before,
"dont let TW make your reads for you, make your own"
the questions at the end are good and again trying to truly "solve" the issue of alignments.
but also can you answer them yourself?

@TW, what do you think about this? Keyser is essentially saying that if Rat is scum, she is buddying/defending him in a similar manner to how I buddied/defended Keyser as scum in Watcher Wanted (link for anyone interested to that game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77119). As you, Irrelephant, and Keyser will all recall, as scum in that game most of my ISO revolved around Keyser, and I chainsaw defended him by attacking people who attacked him (e.g., 2.781/Huntress). To quote Keyser, my strategy as scum in that game was to use Keyser as a springboard to attack and scumpaint any townies who attacked him. Keyser is claiming that may be happening again in this game, except this time it is Rat who is buddying/defending him.

Do you think that is likely to be going on here -- do you think town!Keyser is being buddied/defended by scum!Rat? Does Rat's treatment of Keyser's slot seem similar to how I treated Keyser in Watcher Wanted, where Keyser was town and I was scum? Or do you think the interactions between Rat and Keyser are more likely SvS?

In short:

most likely: SvS
second most likely: town!labby / scum!Keyser
then: scum!labby / town!keyser
probably never: TvT

@TW,

Why would town!Rat chainsaw defend scum!Keyser in these two posts thugh?

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way
OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.
Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.
Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

I agree they could simply be scum together. But if one of them is scum and one of them is town, scum!Rat and town!Keyser seems far more likely to me than scum!Keyser and and town!Rat.

first off, from my site its more likely scum defends town and town defends scum than scum defending scum.
scum would defend town, obviously, for anti-spew and bad associations
town defends scum, because, first off, they aren't worried about associations because obviously they don't know peoples alignments and are not informed, thus they only can go off what they feel. Second off, they can have a townread on someone and defend them right? im not saying this is whats happening, im saying its a possiblity.

for me, based on what i have seen, its probable TvS in one way or another then S v S
and maybe bare minimum TvT with 2 people just going at it with defense fest?

@TW, earlier you said you would present your full case against scum!Keyser if one of your townreads requested it.

I'm one of your townreads, so I would like to take you up on that. I need to case Keyser again myself, but I need you to help me understand how you have come to the conclusion that Keyser has more scum equity than Labrat.

Perhaps I need to skim through some of Keyser's scum games? My only experience with Keyser is Watcher Wanted, where he was town.

this is good and bad(i feel more good than bad)

good: wants to see a full case on keyser, and also realizes that they don't have experience with scum keys so they should go read.
bad: continues the labrat tunnel and thinks that its weird that TW feels keyser more liekly scum than labrat.

@Labrat, what are your thoughts on The Worst and Keyser at the moment?

good question, NAI in practice.

g r o o a n

my reservation is I have some spicy tells on keyser which I believe are working really well. as soon as I name them I become unable to use them again

are you sure you can't take my word for it or read it from his content?

I see. Is your scumread of him based entirely off of his content from this game, or is it in part a meta read based on other games you have played with him? Would I need to read his other games to be able to see these same tells that you are seeing from him?

And have you played with scum!Keyser before in other games?

same as above but without the bad.

We'll, I'm off to bed
Hoping town does the right thing and votes creature

It will flip scum, I'm 99% sure

Lcp


Also @tw what 521 page monstrosity is that?!

Yes, that's why I asked TW about it as well. I don't intend to read all 521 pages of Heroes Wanted, but I feel like reading a portion of it could hopefully help me to understand TW's meta read of Creature. That's why I would like TW to narrow down what portion of that game would be most beneficial to read.

lol this post

Like volxen who just came here to fart and left

So now I am scum because I asked TW about another game of yours because it might help me to read your slot?

You don't seem to have a genuine interest in solving this game.

VOTE: Creature

this is a very quick turn-around and quick-mis-interpret, due to creature not even calling you scum in that post?
"like volxen who just came in, farted, and left"
and you get
"now im scum because i asked a question about your game"


{enter Eragon}

TL;DR(IM STILL EXPECTING YOU TO AT LEAST SKIM THE WALL YOU LAZY BOIS)
Things I like:
-going back and forth on their own posts
-truly trying to solve
-asking other people questions and giving a detailed explanation on what they want
-towny parts of it(you can read the wall)
-good/nuanced(using this b/c its what I’ve heard its described as) reads
-staying consistent with their reads
-good questions
-‘want’ to solve

Things I dislike:
-hard-tunnel of rat
-saying a LOT OF WORDS to say the same thing
-GODDAMN ANGLESHOOTING HOW HARD IS IT
-reaching for straws a little on Rat
-asking other people questions but not answering their own question
-quick return on creature and fmpov a mis-interpretation.

conclusion:

the good outwieghs the bad, and the nuance, the questions, the consistency, and the trying to solve are all good towny-tells. I don't however, feel as confident in this as people(Irrelephant) are and i don't see any reason for him to be that strong of a townread, albeit i do see towny pings, there are some things i find i bit wolfy.
Still

Town

: slightly above creature

[Eragon]

{volxen}
{creature, Doc J, tw}
(lefty, irrel}
{keyser, lab}


NOTE: i am not labeling these because i do not feel confident in most of the reads yet, and the strengths of them are skewed by that but for now. (for example, my brackets show that Volxen is my strongest tr by far and close to locktown, yet i don't quite feel that confident}
so its just
{strongest townread}
{next strongest}
{next}
{weakest}

basically im happy with any of the bottom 4 being lynched, but if you so choose creature/doc J. to be lynched i wont neccesarilly complain( i will complain about TW)

[the worst]

so you're more or less ok w lynching anyone in the game except me and volxy eh

[Eragon]

so you're more or less ok w lynching anyone in the game except me and volxy eh

right now...

yes.

i prefer to lynch in lefty(ausuka), irrel, keyser, and lab, but i wouldn't complain about lynching creature( for one my TR is decreasing, and for two it gives hella info) and doc J, i think they are town but its certainly not strong, so i'd much rather not, but if for some reason? ya'll decide to lynch them id be not sad

[Eragon]

FYI please pray for my english and mandarin test grades to be at least a B

Spoiler:

and also my science tommorow

and my math tuesday

oh god i feel like im dying in stress lmao

[the worst]

don't get Es for Eragon
get As for Aragorn

I believe in you Elessar!

[Eragon]

don't get Es for Eragon
get As for Aragorn

I believe in you Elessar!

[the worst]

Viggo Mortensen is indeed awesome
I'm gonna lurk a little til others appear...

[Eragon]

Viggo Mortensen is indeed awesome
I'm gonna lurk a little til others appear...

Do you still scumread me?

If so, why anything other than PoE?

[Eragon]

K it’s late now.

Goodnight.