Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[Keyser Söze]

Why was your D1 vote on Dr J and not me/Lab?

[Keyser Söze]

{tw}
{DrJ}
{volxy}
{Relly}
{lefty}
{carmen}
{labby}
{keyser}
{crature}

{me}
{tw, volxen, DrJ}
{labrat}
{Carmen, lefty} - null
{keyser}
{creature}

[volxen]

Did you know?

Highland cattle are well adapted to the scottish highlands, and have been compared to caribou in resiliency..

Votecount 1.10

Creature (5) - Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, volxen, Ausuka, the worst, Irrelephant
Keyser (2) - LabRat01, Creature
Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde (1) - Eragon
Eragon (1) - Keyser Söze
Not Voting -

Creature has been lynched! He was...

Spoiler:

A Vanilla Townie

Time till end of heaven phase 1: (expired on 2018-11-22 15:30:00)

I feel like I need to reevaluate my reads and this entire game. I've had suspicions of Keyser, Eragon, and Labrat all being scum, but I don't think Creature's wagon was all town, which means at least one of {Keyser, Eragon, Labrat} is town. I need to see which one of those three has the most town equity.

And regarding Creature's wagon, I kind of doubt his five-person wagon was [town, town, town, town, scum]. Meaning I don't think Irrelephant is the sole scum on his wagon -- I believe there is scum among the first four voters on his wagon. Especially because Creature would have been lynched regardless of whether Irrelephant joined the wagon due to the plurality lynching rules, and he voted for Creature just hours before the deadline, so he effectively contributed the least to Creature's mislynch. I'm not ruling out the possibility of scum!Irrelephant, but if he is scum then there were most likely multiple scum on Creature's wagon. So fmpov that means I need to look at {TW, Dr. J, and Ausuka}, as there is most likely scum among those three.

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

Why was your D1 vote on Dr J and not me/Lab?

ok, thoughts on tw -

I kind of feel this is a bit telling.

Creature (1) -

the worst

Creature (2) - Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde,

the worst

Creature (4) - Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde,

the worst

, Keyser Söze, volxen

Creature (4) - Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde,

the worst

, volxen, Ausuka

Creature (5) - Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, volxen, Ausuka,

the worst

, Irrelephant

he moved successively from leading the wagon to #4 on it. It looks to me like he was moving from the beginning to the end of the wagon, trying not to be associated with it. he also voted creature very early and kind of stayed on him the whole day. I'm not necessarily scumreading him, but I'm not reading him quite as much town as I was. I wouldn't be happy to send him to heaven especially combined with the buddying incidents earlier.

also, another thing
I feel like we'd be better off picking someone and getting on with it
we could go round in circles for 7 days otherwise

no, what's your angle with this post? and why is your TR wavering?

Ok so this is my thought process behind this

Basically I thought scum would be likely to want to be near the end of the wagon to not be associated with the lynch. So I felt a bit concerned that you were seemingly moving 'down' the wagon from #0 to #5

I've also had concerns in the past about you buddying me a bit. So overall I am townreading you less than I was.

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

3 really bad posts from Eragon EoD1:

i'll hammer if neccesary

What was your whole entrance scene then - Masturbatory posturing?


Surely you must have a PoE?

Keyser’s AtE And shit is incredibly wolfy but makes me sad to lynch him

Creature on the other hand I still hold his tone has been towny but i’ve Liked his posts a lot less recently

I’ll be voting one of keyser/creature in 20 minutes

Stinks of opportunistic and very willing to execute the misslynch and keep the focus/pressure on us.... "yeah, they look so towny but, but, but, but yeah they also sound so scummy"


I.e their actions do not reflect their supposed reads.

To add to what you said, notice how he says his tone is 'towny' but he has 'liked his posts a lot less recently'

That definitely looks a bit suspicious. Why would he be willing to lynch someone who he thinks is 'towny' in tone?

[Keyser Söze]

Btw Volxen, it’s hard to get a solid/genuine read on you if you’re poppping in and out every 5 pages.

NGL, right now I’m relying on Irrelephant’s meta defence on you to put you above null into green.

Need to see some natural conversation/interactions. I can see you’re thinking alot, but would prefer to see you think on your toes, instead of these longer posts (I’m sure you’d understand if I feared scum-you would have time to manufacture these posts).

[Ausuka]

(I know that the basic answer to that is going to be "meta" like you've said in your ISO and I probably should've said that in the post above, sorry. I just don't understand why his ISO is so towny and I don't understand why his scumgame can't have just, improved - I don't think it's that rare.)

I'm concerned about him, mainly due to his general push of {Creature, Keyser, Eragon} i.e the most suspected players in the game as a category.

pedit: I think I'm alright at interacting with you? So I probably could just play for a few days and if I don't have a definite read back then go for the quotewalls etc.

It's within the scope of his town meta pretty comfortably and it'd be like quite a stretch for his scum meta

I don't think his scum meta is currently gearing towards improving so dramatically in such specific ways so to speak - I hope this makes sense but if not hmu and I'll iso dive

Yeah idk I don't get that. Does he really have such a distinctive scum meta to the point where you can easily predict exactly how it would improve? I mean, I've had scum games before where people have just believed that I'm town because I played a terrible scumgame with them recently and they believe an extremely mediocre scumgame was beyond my capacity; I think that sometimes just playing scum, even if you don't do so well, can help you get used to it and perform better next time. And IMHO volxen's play in Watchmen really wasn't that bad and could've got him pretty far had things gone differently / the game had a different playerlist?

[volxen]

Btw Volxen, it’s hard to get a solid/genuine read on you if you’re poppping in and out every 5 pages.

NGL, right now I’m relying on Irrelephant’s meta defence on you to put you above null into green.

Need to see some natural conversation/interactions. I can see you’re thinking alot, but would prefer to see you think on your toes, instead of these longer posts (I’m sure you’d understand if I feared scum-you would have time to manufacture these posts).

That's in large part my playstyle, though. Yes I do at times engage in real time interactions when I can, but a lot of the time I write fewer but lengthier posts as opposed to a lot of shorter posts. My playstyle is very different from someone like Creature for that reason. I know your only first-hand experience was with scum!me in Watcher Wanted, but I do the same thing in my town games. I've completed several newbie games as town, and you will see my posting style is largely the same across all of those games.

But is there anything in particular that is making it hard for you to read me?

[Irrelephant11]

VOTE: volxen

[Keyser Söze]

Yes, it’s harder to draw tone out of walls... plus restricts associations between you and players.

It’ll probably stop me from having you ever as my #1 pick for heaven tbh, as there’ll always be that worry you’re playing a very careful game (I can see potential scum motivation in that).

I look forward to your reads today though: can remember you being part of the mob that pushed the Creature-Keyser scumteam narrative. How does Creature’s flip effect your read on me now? Were we just two desperate townies in the same boat?

Can also remember you strongly disliking Eragon’s town case on Creature too... do you think it was unnatural/not believable/forced? Your vote stayed on Creature for the second half of D1.

[Keyser Söze]

VOTE: volxen

Didn’t expect this. What changed? Creature’s flip?

[Keyser Söze]

Fuck , ignore me

[Keyser Söze]

{me}
{tw, volxen, DrJ}
{labrat}
{Carmen, lefty} - null
{keyser}
{creature}

Where are Eragon and Ausuka in your reads right now?

[Eragon]

Ouch ok.

Unless I get a reason to vote elsewhere will likely vote heaven in {Jekyll, Keyser}

who do you think keyser is town?
i could see having some reasons for a town lean, but willing to put in heaven im suprised tbh.

This Creature-Keyser scum team agenda must stop.

uhh creature died, so yes, it did stop...

I was only going to catch up until I got reads to play with; I work much better from realtime and don't enjoy catchup. Was that wrong of me?

Yeah Keyser wagon for heaven probably isn't happening but whatever.

Pedit: Why can't we sort him now?

thats fine.

i feel the same way as you

My intent to sort keyser tomorrow has acrually firmed up because I desperately need a townflip rn to confirm I'm not gOiNg CrAzY

i could name 4 people to vote i am confident in, but 1 is you and 1 is me and the other you voted :3 and the other is Doc. J

(I know that the basic answer to that is going to be "meta" like you've said in your ISO and I probably should've said that in the post above, sorry. I just don't understand why his ISO is so towny and I don't understand why his scumgame can't have just, improved - I don't think it's that rare.)

I'm concerned about him, mainly due to his general push of {Creature, Keyser, Eragon} i.e the most suspected players in the game as a category.

pedit: I think I'm alright at interacting with you? So I probably could just play for a few days and if I don't have a definite read back then go for the quotewalls etc.

why do you specifically suspect volxen who is pushing those 3 instead of, for example, TW, who also suspects those 3?

I think we should actually let my D1 PoE (Ausuka, LabRat and Eragon) take the lead for the heaven phase

I’d love to see them send someone town to heaven.

vote volxen or Doc. J

EZPZ

So wait, we couldn’t send Ausuka to hell coz they’d only made 22 posts... but now we’re gonna send Volxen to heaven who has only 20 posts?

i don't think thats the reason or lacktherof of sending them to heaven or not?

and anyways, volxens 20 posts has a ton of words and stuff, like their 20 posts = 50 normal posts.

I say we sort Dr J and LabRat today, in regard oath to heaven.

Lots of data on both.

Lots of connections on both.

Lots of opinions on both.

im good with this

Gonna park my vote there for now and look at LabRat. Didn’t like where their focus was in the latter part of D1 (they kept pressure on Creature and me). They began D1 as an easy town read, but ended it in my PoE - now I gotta take off my OMGUS glasses.

so they were an easy read while defending you but once they pushed you, they lost towniness
that sounds right.
/s

I'd be inclined to put tw in heaven though obviously I'm not averse to being put in myself

Let me see who else is in my heaven pool

I wasn't expecting that result... I had him down as basically confirmed scum. I guess I tunneled too much. I need to reread a bit in light of that.

300k word re-read cannoneer :3

Also, like, I need my laptop back for that, because there’s no way in hell I’m posting like 8 different posts from my phone, much less try to salvage like 30+ pages worth of quotes.

-Kor

jesus thats a lot of pages

Trying to figure out the point where LabRat turned on me, and why.


Start of D1, I felt we were mutually 'happy' with eachother (defending eachother..?).
LabRat even was happy with my apology for voting for her (even though she was a t/read of mine), but not to do it again.

so ye, when they were defending each other, keyser townread lab, but then...

Then LabRat said he was going to do a re-read...

*MAYBE HERE*

Then LabRat started her surprising late assault on me:

when lab starts to push keyser, keyser loses the townread? thats just pure OMGUS and a lot of deflection.

"I want to lynch him today."
"don’t like his interactions with Creature"
"the way he was going about TW the whole game was just weird"
"the way Keyser pushed TW during the game to be really off"
"didn’t also get a good feeling out of the way he interacted with TW in general"
"stressed scum"
"POE, MY ASS, NO IT’S NOT"
"it feels like you’re either getting desperate and trying to think of bullshit that would save you and creat from getting lynched"
"Seriously, this is awful"
"vote keyser with me"
"what do you think about lynching him?"
"wagon Keyser with me"

Ooooh, here is an interesting post, late D1.

Eragon rages a question to TW, but LabRat answers:

so im assuming you are pretty sure keyser flips scum based off of this and other posts, but you think the most likely thing is Town lab defending Scum keyser and then hard-pushing him EoD?

I don’t think I’ve ever defended him? I didn’t have a strong read on him through most of the game and even if I wanted to, I wouldn’t even have an opportunity to defend him till like, people started making reads that weren’t 90% based on meta… It was more of him defending me through most of the game

This legit feels sounds like a townie who doesn't want to be connected with scummy slime (me)

, or seen to be doing a suspicious U-TURN. LabRat jumped in to answering Eragon's question to TW and put the record straight: 'I HAVE NEVER HAD TOWN RELATIONS WITH THAT MAN!'
I think LabRat may be back in my good books.

so its a good thing that he is worried about assocations or looking suspicious?
i dont really understand how thats towny? can you explain how being scared of being scumread is towny?

Am I miss-reading this?

3 really bad posts from Eragon EoD1:

i'll hammer if neccesary

What was your whole entrance scene then - Masturbatory posturing?


Surely you must have a PoE?

so im assuming you meant my post in this, not TW.

the hammer, "IF

NECCESARY

was me forgetting about plurality and just saying i'd rather a creature lynch than a no-lynch

its really funny how you ignored all my posts about the PoE and how i felt creature "was slightly leaning town IMO, but if thats the lynch that happens i wont complain too much."

Keyser’s AtE And shit is incredibly wolfy but makes me sad to lynch him

Creature on the other hand I still hold his tone has been towny but i’ve Liked his posts a lot less recently

whats wrong with this????i think their tone was towny but some of their EoD posts were wolfy. reads can change right? and if not, then you are wolf because you changed you read on Labrat twice, from strong town to nullish wolfish to town again. So what is it? are you wolf because reads change, or are you pushing this baseless-ly due to reads having a possiblity of change?

I’ll be voting one of keyser/creature in 20 minutes

i scumread you, and if there was a wagon on you i woulda gone for you over creature, but i didn't have time to really push anything cause i was on mobile eating lunch at school, thus the "20 minutes" its just me announcing who i will vote and the latest i would.

Stinks of opportunistic and very willing to execute the misslynch and keep the focus/pressure on us.... "yeah, they look so towny but, but, but, but yeah they also sound so scummy"

yes, i thought their tone was towny.... whats so damn hard to understand???? wolves cant have towny tones? i thought their posts were slightly scummy towards the end, but i still thought their town was towny? is there a fucking problem with that??? i didn't have the time or the ability to stop their lynch at the time, so what could i do???

I.e their actions do not reflect their supposed reads.

scumread you, pushed you
light-townread creature, was fine with creature being lynched, AS I EXPRESSED IN MULTIPLE POSTS YOU ARE IGNORING,
those seem pretty reflecting to me

Why was your D1 vote on Dr J and not me/Lab?

i never even voted D1

3 really bad posts from Eragon EoD1:

i'll hammer if neccesary

What was your whole entrance scene then - Masturbatory posturing?


Surely you must have a PoE?

Keyser’s AtE And shit is incredibly wolfy but makes me sad to lynch him

Creature on the other hand I still hold his tone has been towny but i’ve Liked his posts a lot less recently

I’ll be voting one of keyser/creature in 20 minutes

Stinks of opportunistic and very willing to execute the misslynch and keep the focus/pressure on us.... "yeah, they look so towny but, but, but, but yeah they also sound so scummy"


I.e their actions do not reflect their supposed reads.

To add to what you said, notice how he says his tone is 'towny' but he has 'liked his posts a lot less recently'

yes... his tone was towny, and i still thought that, but then some of the content of his posts started to ping me.

That definitely looks a bit suspicious. Why would he be willing to lynch someone who he thinks is 'towny' in tone?

due to getting wagonomics, reads off flip, getting a distraction to the rest of the tone that was sole focused on tunneling creature, and because people started to make me doubt my townread because i was the only person townreading creature other than keyser i think?
as i said above, reads change.

Btw Volxen, it’s hard to get a solid/genuine read on you if you’re poppping in and out every 5 pages.

NGL, right now I’m relying on Irrelephant’s meta defence on you to put you above null into green.

Need to see some natural conversation/interactions. I can see you’re thinking alot, but would prefer to see you think on your toes, instead of these longer posts (I’m sure you’d understand if I feared scum-you would have time to manufacture these posts).

you can make a read on the posts he makes, theres enough content in them.
i do agree natural interaction is a big part of reading, but still...

That's in large part my playstyle, though. Yes I do at times engage in real time interactions when I can, but a lot of the time I write fewer but lengthier posts as opposed to a lot of shorter posts. My playstyle is very different from someone like Creature for that reason. I know your only first-hand experience was with scum!me in Watcher Wanted, but I do the same thing in my town games. I've completed several newbie games as town, and you will see my posting style is largely the same across all of those games.

But is there anything in particular that is making it hard for you to read me?

i like posting in short burst too, although i can at times make big walls for catchup and/or reads, but i definitely agree that your style is walls, and i don't see a major problem with that? i was able to get enough out of your posts to make myself belive you are town, and while it might be stronger with more posts/natural interaction, its not a problem for me

[the worst]

it looks kind of suspicious to me that you go from #1 on the wagon to #4

back later to explain more
can't stop now

why?

[the worst]

This legit feels sounds like a townie who doesn't want to be connected with scummy slime (me), or seen to be doing a suspicious U-TURN. LabRat jumped in to answering Eragon's question to TW and put the record straight: 'I HAVE NEVER HAD TOWN RELATIONS WITH THAT MAN!'
I think LabRat may be back in my good books.

Am I miss-reading this?

I agree, her tunnel is pretty towny and hard scumread on you feels pure

[Eragon]

VOTE: Volxen

im good here

[Keyser Söze]

Btw Volxen, it’s hard to get a solid/genuine read on you if you’re poppping in and out every 5 pages.

NGL, right now I’m relying on Irrelephant’s meta defence on you to put you above null into green.

Need to see some natural conversation/interactions. I can see you’re thinking alot, but would prefer to see you think on your toes, instead of these longer posts (I’m sure you’d understand if I feared scum-you would have time to manufacture these posts).

Moreover, for those interested in WIFOM-inspired reads: been re-thinking my theory about Irrellephant and Volxen.


Don’t think scum-Irrelephant t/reads SCUM-Volxen this hard with meta on D1, then driving Volxen’s name forward as lead candidate for heaven in D2. Scum-Irrelephant likely to t/read TOWN-Volxen just as much as town-Irrelephant, after a successful D1 misslynch/hammer of Creature.

[the worst]

Ok so this is my thought process behind this

Basically I thought scum would be likely to want to be near the end of the wagon to not be associated with the lynch. So I felt a bit concerned that you were seemingly moving 'down' the wagon from #0 to #5

I've also had concerns in the past about you buddying me a bit. So overall I am townreading you less than I was.

Why does a scum thought process lead towards me thinking that aggressively tunnelling him all day and encouraging the list to lynch him while using my vote to sort people resulting in it ultimately shifting backwards down his wagon = not being associated with the lynch?

This isn't even level 0 thinking. It's level -0.5. I genuinely don't think it makes any sense.

There's a couple of conventional scumtells on the Creature wagon via vca and I am not one of them. Wanna have another go?

[Keyser Söze]

@Eragon - I didn’t stop t/reading Rat because she was s/reading me. It’s actually the intensity/authenticity of her s/read which I actually t/read. Please don’t miss-rep me.

[the worst]

(I know that the basic answer to that is going to be "meta" like you've said in your ISO and I probably should've said that in the post above, sorry. I just don't understand why his ISO is so towny and I don't understand why his scumgame can't have just, improved - I don't think it's that rare.)

I'm concerned about him, mainly due to his general push of {Creature, Keyser, Eragon} i.e the most suspected players in the game as a category.

pedit: I think I'm alright at interacting with you? So I probably could just play for a few days and if I don't have a definite read back then go for the quotewalls etc.

It's within the scope of his town meta pretty comfortably and it'd be like quite a stretch for his scum meta

I don't think his scum meta is currently gearing towards improving so dramatically in such specific ways so to speak - I hope this makes sense but if not hmu and I'll iso dive

Yeah idk I don't get that. Does he really have such a distinctive scum meta to the point where you can easily predict exactly how it would improve? I mean, I've had scum games before where people have just believed that I'm town because I played a terrible scumgame with them recently and they believe an extremely mediocre scumgame was beyond my capacity; I think that sometimes just playing scum, even if you don't do so well, can help you get used to it and perform better next time. And IMHO volxen's play in Watchmen really wasn't that bad and could've got him pretty far had things gone differently / the game had a different playerlist?

I think his town and scumganes have been pretty markedly different (we play together lots and maybe I've probably inadvertently read all of his games on site I guess). plus we're like buds and have talked a bit about how we approach both alignments + he's sought some feedback from myself and others about his play

so within reason, I think I can anticipate a trajectory of his scumplay/townplay development yeah. Sorry it might sound bizarre from the outside looking in but I feel really comfortable. Relly's defence makes me feel pretty comfortable too (I think he does this as either alignment but it doesn't present as s/s)

[Eragon]

@Eragon - I didn’t stop t/reading Rat because she was s/reading me. It’s actually the intensity/authenticity of her s/read which I actually t/read. Please don’t miss-rep me.

then what is this?

```Then LabRat said he was going to do a re-read...

*MAYBE HERE*

Then LabRat started her surprising late assault on me:```

[Keyser Söze]

Moreover, yes, there’s nothing wrong with changing reads (I do it constantly), but you were holding both options open, to misslynch both of us (I suspect tactical opportunism)

Can’t get the bitter taste out my mouth after reading those 3 posts.

[Irrelephant11]

Ughhhh Tw might not be town
Keyser/Eragon/labrat is never the scumteam and rarely has two scum (though if I were scum here I’d try my best to make that happen) so if I can find a solid town out of those three I *might* prefer that over volxen
My townread on volxen is less dependent on anyone else’s reads than my creature scumread was, though, so for now I’ll believe in it

[Keyser Söze]

This legit feels sounds like a townie who doesn't want to be connected with scummy slime (me), or seen to be doing a suspicious U-TURN. LabRat jumped in to answering Eragon's question to TW and put the record straight: 'I HAVE NEVER HAD TOWN RELATIONS WITH THAT MAN!'
I think LabRat may be back in my good books.

Am I miss-reading this?

I agree, her tunnel is pretty towny and hard scumread on you feels pure

Do you have any doubts with Dr J?

I really wanted to sort Dr J and LabRat today.