Open 738: Purgatory | LA FIN

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

I think thats mostly quotes, not comments... I have no idea. Hopefully not. Next post coming

[Eragon]

yep that was 97.68% quotes

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

wow there's some long posts here
Anyone want to feed me a short version of what they're thinking rn?

no one ever takes me up on this

i don't know what you expect wrt creature
what's your read on lab?

I had lab at town at this point

and sorry relly :c i love catching teh scumz as much as the next adorbs animal but sadly you're on the wrong track this time

I mean rn you're super reminding me of your play in Presidents
Have I ever read you correctly though? I think only the once, when I repped into the game you were caught!SK, so your odds I'm reading you wrong are good
Still though you're super reminding me of American Presidents rn and super not reminding me of the amazingly solve-y tw I've seen before

Keyser.....are you trying to steer us off your scumbuddy?
Answer honestly

ew what

Keyser.....are you trying to steer us off your scumbuddy?
Answer honestly

And here you’re already linking me with labrat.

You saying me defending / town leaning / wanting to give Rat room as “trying to steer us off (my) scumbuddy” again feels too intense.

I.e TMI. Why can’t I be a townie with a wrong read here?

I sorta don't love the last sentence, can't name why
wait yeah it's because it sort of assumes a scum!labrat even though keyser was townreading him I think
could just be keyser using wording I don't like though, let me not get caught up in this

Keyser.....are you trying to steer us off your scumbuddy?
Answer honestly

And here you’re already linking me with labrat.

You saying me defending / town leaning / wanting to give Rat room as “trying to steer us off (my) scumbuddy” again feels too intense.

I.e TMI. Why can’t I be a townie with a wrong read here?

this is too much goddamnit man i just wanted you to be town just this once FUCK

This feels like way too strong a reaction
tw why are you scummmm

Keyser.....are you trying to steer us off your scumbuddy?
Answer honestly

And here you’re already linking me with labrat.

You saying me defending / town leaning / wanting to give Rat room as “trying to steer us off (my) scumbuddy” again feels too intense.

I.e TMI. Why can’t I be a townie with a wrong read here?

this is too much goddamnit man i just wanted you to be town just this once FUCK

Again, why can’t I be town who isn’t scum-reading Labrat?

This overdramatic foreplay still doesn’t answer my question.

Why am I scum forcefully ‘steering’ off players from my ‘scumpartner’?

This new narrative about me and labrat being scum partners is very concerning.

anyway the takeaway from this conversation is that my first feeling of town!keyser, scum!tw still feels very correct.

Me same level as creature?

Yeah, you're probably below

lol
oh but also, no

Also if I was scum I'd be more willing to give townreads. I'm rn struggling to get decent reads.

Can you give an example of town!you struggling to get decent reads? I'm not really believing this post... at all

Keyser.....are you trying to steer us off your scumbuddy?
Answer honestly

And here you’re already linking me with labrat.

You saying me defending / town leaning / wanting to give Rat room as “trying to steer us off (my) scumbuddy” again feels too intense.

I.e TMI. Why can’t I be a townie with a wrong read here?

this is too much goddamnit man i just wanted you to be town just this once FUCK

Again, why can’t I be town who isn’t scum-reading Labrat?

This overdramatic foreplay still doesn’t answer my question.

Why am I scum forcefully ‘steering’ off players from my ‘scumpartner’?

This new narrative about me and labrat being scum partners is very concerning.

i asked you a question, i'm not pushing the fact i s/s read you all that hard atm because i was hoping you'd laugh it off and give me more shiny content.
what's your angle here? like fyi i'd rather flip labby first and work it out from there but i don't townread you either and there's nothing that's disallowing me from reading you guys as s/s

what's the aversion to this question?

tbf I did have an early game though that keyser and labrat are probably on the same team, and though I would be more surprised than not if either flipped red I would definitely look at the other one next

Let's dominate this fucking thread.

Are you also gonna argue the worst is gamethrowing? He like did the same thing I did, but kept adding I'm scum in every post of his.

Can you give an example of town!you struggling to get decent reads?

schadd's micro friends mafia. Too lazy to get the link.

I would like to send volxen to heaven please

Ok, let’s stop talking about you (but Volxen and I are still waiting for the full case on me before D2).

Can you give me a summary case of Creature.

From my experience with town-Creature:
- his spam will always outweigh his content
- he’ll never LAMIST/try to convey super-Townie
- he’ll project that he’s not bothered about being s/read
- antagonise players s/reading him
- not explain every one of his votes in great detail
- his read trajectory won’t be explicit and supported

I would usually s/read other players for being guilty for some of these, but Creature does these as town.

You said my “meta on Creature is a joke”. If so, you think Creature is obv-scumming right now?

Please present why Creature is scum (via meta) in a summary paragraph so that we can send him to hell.

You’re making it sound like you’re sure that creat is unreadable. Have you ever played scum with him? if not, why even resort to meta arguments if so many people said that he does play differently as scum?
and I think it should be rather clear that it’s highly unlikely for TW to be scum with any of [me, you, creat], so does that mean you think TW will flip scum sooner than creat?

labrat is probably town, too
way too many words to be scum for like 80% of players
I'll double-check this before sending them to heaven but not interested in a labrat lynch atm

I would probably send labrat to heaven first.

@LabRat- I had no reasons to vote you (anti town of me, sorry). I wanted to bait a reaction out of TW and you. But not the reaction I was hoping for... the opposite happened... you stopped posting, and TW has grown colder with your lynch.

I stopped posting because I was outdoors most of the day yesterday and then got brutally reminded that the exams start this week, not next one
it was not even related to the game

and why are you apologizing for voting me? all the players are here to reach some sort of goal, so in most cases, I don't really care about that. I mean, it's nice and all, so thank you, but if there's ever a situation like that in the future, you don't really need to do that.
And if you think TW is scum, why do you think it's important that he thinks I'm scummy?

and sorry relly :c i love catching teh scumz as much as the next adorbs animal but sadly you're on the wrong track this time

I mean rn you're super reminding me of your play in Presidents
Have I ever read you correctly though? I think only the once, when I repped into the game you were caught!SK, so your odds I'm reading you wrong are good
Still though you're super reminding me of American Presidents rn and super not reminding me of the amazingly solve-y tw I've seen before

Wait, was he scum there? Can you elaborate?

stupid internetttt let me postttt


Still don't really understand volxen's scumread of labrat? Like it seemed like it came from "there has to be 1 scum in {tw, labrat}" and imo tw is scummier here

If LabRat flips scum - we never send me to heaven. Deal?

Spicy

If LabRat flips scum - we never send me to heaven. Deal?

I didn't read anything past the last post I quoted, so sorry if I missed anything, but that post is worthless

If you think that I'm town, then defend me and talk about it so that even IF you're wrong, the other people might prove you wrong
telling people to punish you IF I flip scum feels like you're acting all high and mighty to gain the towncreed when I flip town

I've seen people do it as town and tbf I also did it once near the end of the game when I was really confident in my reads, but just don't because it's making me feel weird
you're not even townreading me

I actually really like this post and would like to think it's anti-partner indicative for keyser/labrat but the fact that it came shortly after paranoia about a keyser/labrat team makes me less sure
Still though I didn't even think of Keyser's "deal" this way and think it's overall towny that this pinged you, especially since I feel like it might not even occur to you that Keyser's "deal" is sour if you weren't measuring it against your own town-alignment

My one thought without fully catching up is this seems like a towny volxen, unless he’s trying very very hard to improve his scumgame (no nuance there)

Improvement noticed too... would like to witness wider focus though.

is this you saying he's "improved scum" or that he's town?
It's theoretically possible this is his improved scumgame (and he's tryhard enough to get there) but it's a BIG jump from easy-to-lynch-d1 scum!volxen from WW

Tw is probably town based on the lack of any wagon - while I don't doubt scum could be WIFOMING there, I think thats much less unlikely than them leaving a wagon sit there.

-snip-

I still am a little concerned at him seemingly trying to buddy me, but hmph, I'm probably reading too much into it

I think this is a pretty meh wagonomics read, only three of us have shown any interest in voting him and I pulled it together really quickly by asking them to vote him i.e. I think it's definitely possible tw is scum with 2-3 town on-wagon. Actually if he's scum it's probably always with one of keyser/labrat given scum would not feel in-danger at all if they can shift momentum at their leisure
meh maybe that's too picky a read but overall I still think this is a bad reason to townread tw

I also have definitely gotten pocket-y vibes from him regarding your slot ("so pure!!!!" iirc?).

how does volx play as scum?

without nuance
haha to explain further he seems to really struggle as scum to come up with thought-out reasoning for his reads. His reads aren't perfect but the amount of thought that goes into them shows a lot about his alignment (I think he's almost certainly town here)

Labrat, well, I'm getting plenty of scum pings there.

-snip-

Overall I think Labrat is scum and led a wagon on TW
And when he saw it wasn't going anywhere unvoted

-snip-

I led the wagon on tw. Does that change your read on labrat at all?

I literally have no idea what you're asking me for here LOL
if it's in relation to a specific post can you quote that post?

sorry to be difficult but your line of questioning is really jarring with the way I think for some reason

It's posts like these that keep swinging me back to scum!tw every time
I swear I've seen scum!him make this post before
I might be caught in confbias though so let me assume he's town for a bit and see what that does for me

we actually just hydra'd in a game, maybe i've learned more from him than i realised?

Learned to misread me like three games a row from him?

well we only just hydra'd so...no?
also you used this "misreading me" thing as scum in Heroes Wanted didn't you? I use the same argument as scum..

town!tw is probably right about creature?
scum!tw might be right about creature tbh

Both my t/leans and the players I’m not t/reading are loving TW.
Willing to except I’m wrong about him...
this wagon has been killed.
UNVOTE:

this seems like bad reasoning?
Like where's the usual Keyser-brand push against the grain
Is there a world where Keyser and tw are both scum?
Anyway if tw is town here (like I'm trying to read everything as) this is scummy - "oh there's no more support for the lynch? Then he's town!"

You think scum-labrat is chainsaw defending scum-me on PAGE ONE against TWO PLAYERS?

why is this so ridiculous...?
the reason chainsawing is a scumtell is that inexperienced scum players tend to do it unintentionally

lol

You think scum-labrat is chainsaw defending scum-me on PAGE ONE against TWO PLAYERS?

why is this so ridiculous...?
the reason chainsawing is a scumtell is that inexperienced scum players tend to do it unintentionally

I was just being OMGUS’y against you and Volxen it seems......... unwilling to accept being scum read unjustly.

[In truth though, in that scenario, ‘scum-LabRat’ was using me as a springboard to attack ‘townies’ for questioning me (who she knows is town).]

Obviously, I’m terribly wrong about everyone.

Let’s kill LabRat then “town”.

VOTE: LabRat

This post is bizarre.

If you are town, you are really misunderstanding why I am scumreading you

volxy i owe you a drink postgame regardless of alignments ~_~

trying to townread tw still but this also reads pocket-y

just musing bc i've got to the top of this page:

there is a world where i'm wrong on labby
i don't think i'm wrong on creature and i think keyser is more likely scum than labby if i'm wrong on them being s/s

the language around "if labby flips red..." and the fact keyser appears to be JUMPING INTO their associatives so heavily pings agenda-ey, but feels anti-s/s. at the same time i think keyser knows that this kind of behaviour doesn't look like s/s so i feel like he might even do it as s/s? i need to have a better think abt this but like i'm vibing

hell: Creature unless he towns, Keyser
heaven: volxen, DrJ, maybe me

If tw is town, this is probably mostly accurate. I had some of the same feelings about Keyser in his posts leading up to thiso ne

what's your read on keyser, labby?

I don't really have a read on him rn, most of his posts are tonally composed and he doesn't show many emotions besides those few posts where he seemed surprised for you SRing him and the happiness/jokiness from time to time. Like, I don't think I can read that. I'd probably need to read some of his games (or at least the ISOs) to check if he's normally that reactionless as now, but for now meh.

If there's anything I could said to have pinged me, it would be his suggestion to "never lynch him to heaven if I flip scum". Like, that was just bad and I don't get his reasoning for thinking that "the martyrs would have obviously lynched him",
Kind of seemed like a cheap excuse, but again, I don't think I'm able to tell if he really forgot about the judgment day mechanics or not so it's not a read I value strongly

idk, honestly, I've been kind of flaking with reading him, but I'll prob have to change that when I can along with my other bad reads on the nuller half of the playerlist

nnnnnnnnnhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

VOTE: Keyser
sorry my love</3

Ah so Lab Rat is town now?

I DON'T KNOW KEYSER

this is actually probably the towniest thing from tw yet

VOTE: keyser

keyser what's your read on creature rn

- Didn’t want to lynch D1, usually proves his alignment later on
- provided town meta defence for Creature (defence deemed a joke and bullshit)
- happy to concede and sheep TW’s case

Spoiler: hmmmm

keyser
scumcasing you to you accomplishes two things
1) it tells you what i am looking for to townread you
2) it makes you self-aware so that i lose any tells i have on you currently

spend more time solving and less time fussing over me pls. i am not scum, clearly, and you should try and solve as though i'm cleared

1) I’d rather you present to the whole playerlist why you think I am scum. Surely you want me lynched? Even Volxen wanted to escalate it into a consolidation.
2) I don’t want you to keep peddling my lynch/wagon through to D3, and beyond, as I am very misslynchable. I rather we deal with it over 1 or 2 pages then continue from there.
3) I personally don’t like you linking me to LabRat, and to Creature.
4) disagree with your point two: If I magically transform you can still s/read me for changing up my playstyle to fit your idea of what town-Keyser is
5) If I believe your scum-case I think I’ll be more inclined to trust you. All I feel is agenda-driven pushes from you so far.

1) I want Creature lynched today, we can lynch his buddy next hell phase
2) why are you mislynchable? This list should be able to read you fairly well if you're town I would think?
3) I'm linking you to Creature more strongly than LabRat. your associatives with Labby can easily be mistaken (just your recent posts feel very agenda-driven around hard-pushing for her lynch ://)
4) that's an holistic statement and is probably not super relevant atm anyway
5) how so? what do you think my agenda is here other than sorting players and nuking teh scumz?

while i'm on a roll someone talk to me about something with keyser

i'm used to seeing a dude with a badass attitude who doesn't give a fuck how he's perceived. he delivers reads whimsically and wonderfully and rarely looks to be townread by it.
this is what causes people to reactively think he's a wolf, there's like a lack of the logical, blood sweat & tears type of reads you expect to see
this game his reads have been markedly less interesting and nuanced than usual and carry the feel that he's delivering them to get townread rather than advance the game

someone who isn't keyser please engage with me on this (lookin @ u rel)
i've already kinda said more than i wanted to say but it's nibbling on my brain

I mostly don't feel like this is tvt (the two of you are normally great at reading each other) but I can't decide how to resolve it from there
tw has had more moments I dislike in isolation
I have not had any mindmelds with keyser, on the other hand, which I normally have like every third page when we're t/t (besides my tunnel on him the first time we played together)
It's probably not svs even though I kinda like to flatter myself and say you two would maybe put on this show just for me
I also think tw has gone WAY up in the past like 6-8 pages in game-solving and I think his Creature case is somewhat compelling, and I agree with his townreads on volxen and the hydra, not to mention keyser unvoted tw with super weak reasoning?? so for now I'm leaning town!tw if I have to pick a town

There's a CARMEN this game???????????????
that maybe explains why I feel like I have only been able to find two scum at a time

We really need 9 active voices, with a third of us being scum. There has been a stagnant focus on me, LabRat and Creature so far which I don’t like. That is not a gamesolve.

there was a couple minutes where I did indeed think this was the game solve

Carmen and lefty both need to show up, willing to bet there's a scum in at least one of those two

...
I don't think you're scum here. You're right that it died somewhere between 547 and 552
Also I went back to re-read American Presidents and I think I was conflating it with your play in Watchmen Wanted. You have a few tonal moments of similarity, but you're right that it is probably mostly personality

Spoiler: this is like sorta similar to your early play here, but

1218 WIFOMy as fuck but I actually kinda agree that Gamma's scumflip spews Gustavo as town.

Keyser's take on Irrelephant/self TvT read my mind. actually being itt both of them feel legit.

1231 doesn't feel like town reacting to a case scum is making on them. @Gamma do you feel grossly misrepped by town!Key or actually think scum!Key is pushing you? it feels like you're not really willing to commit to either take?

nauci is probably town too

super interested in why you think this, the nullness of my read on Nauci is like. nibbling at the back of my skull.

i kinda want a mom wagon to be a thing

my gut's screaming that gamma is a mislynch. it doesn't really feel like a wagon on scum to me

what part of the wagon composition is bugging you? note for myself to reconsider this.

idk that you've ever as town said that "nibbling at the back of my skull" thing (which I think you have said this game) but I doubt I just found a magical tell for you, so... great!

{me}
{tw, volxen, DrJ}
{labrat}
{Carmen, lefty} - null
{keyser}
{creature}

wild, I don't mind those reads

how do you feel about
Hell: Creature
Heaven: DrJ
Hell: Keyser
Heaven: Volxen

Confession I'm not 100% sure when the win is triggered but I think this just gets us there

tw sort labrat and lefty for me

I'm sorry labrat is either town or scum with keyser and keyser's later against her makes him read unaligned with her so like 60% of the time she's town but it's not a great confidence read (she did push some buuuullshit with aggression which I think she would agree with post-game (a la scum!me bahaha))

I think Lefty vibed very slightly more town than scum

wild, I don't mind those reads

how do you feel about
Hell: Creature
Heaven: DrJ
Hell: Keyser
Heaven: Volxen

Confession I'm not 100% sure when the win is triggered but I think this just gets us there

also I feel mmmm pretty good about this? Carmen/lefty showing up could unseat any of these, really, but that can wait
I think I maybe like swapping volxen/DrJ, or putting you in the second Heaven if we get there

I'm actually kinda curious if the goons got that in their RCs as well or is it just a one-time thing

Did you double check?

The old switcheroo

nice

This is pretty crisp + fwiw reads unaligned with Labby (not a big deal bc I'm starting to think maybe I really was wrong on her but also slightly worth noting imo)

oh so we're pretending derp clears have actual merit or

?

I don’t think anyone should read any of pg 1 as anything but tongue in cheek shitposting

this is an OK take and like something I don't objectively vibe with but also a pretty abrasive take on rvs site meta which I think comes from town marginally more than it comes from scum (scum probably more concerned with tonality here)

Jesus this site formatting makes phone posting hard

@Soze I’m not sure how serious I should be reading you rn

I buy this for a first reaction to Keyser. Doesn't read unaligned tho

But based on 28 & 29 in succession I’m assuming somewhat serious?

I like the reevaluation of his own question

I understood what you meant lol. I figured as much at the time, but then you followed up with Dr. J/Rat spec so I wasn’t sure. I’m not really interested in arguing the merits of it anyway

How are you reading Dr. J and LabRat independently?

Pushing Keyser for reads out of rvs is indeedy +unaligned and reads towny given his vexation with the phase deadlines

I mean, you already decided they’re not M/M in two pages so why not

This ridicule makes me smile. I like that he's voteparking key as well

oh so we're pretending derp clears have actual merit or

?

I don’t think anyone should read any of pg 1 as anything but tongue in cheek shitposting

I mean some sites open day 1 by aggressively shitposting which is v v boring

I often carry some reads out of rvs and reality check them later ;>

I shoulda said *this* pg 1. At least in regards to the responses in the RC talk

Soul reads are real, man. I get it

Cognisance of poor page 1 tonality is wild
Otherwise this is maybe buddying vs. nai I guess
Don't think buddying is only scum indicative so take it how you will

Likewise. Over there we have our own resident Aussie who is pretty fun (and cranky)

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

Swings game back to focus (I read wolfier out of us two, wonder if he had me pegged for a keyser scumbuddy)
Obviously thinking heavily about Keyser's alignment which is consistent with him being a legit scumread

Might need to play a game over there and make sure this isn't my long lost twin!

as far as Keyser goes, he's not someone I would townread off a derpclear or tone or anything like that. He's tonally smoother than silk, even though I haven't seen his scumgame yet I feel like he'd be very capable of something like that.

pedit: either or both!

You should! We're a fun bunch.

I thought the Okapi thing was funny. Generally I think the hitting-the-ground-running approach is a good thing and the thought process afterwards would be some pretty deep leveling (unless I'm assuming wrongly he was considering DrJ/Lab as *the* team - as in just two goons - or just weighing them as partners in general).

But your note is noted.

What would be something you TR them for?

This is towny

how do you feel about
Hell: Creature
Heaven: DrJ
Hell: Keyser
Heaven: Volxen

Sure, the game will end as soon Volxen is sent to heaven.

{me}
{tw, volxen, DrJ}
{labrat}
{Carmen, lefty} - null
{keyser}
{creature}

didn't expect your reads to be pure sheep.

As in, you think DrJ and Volxen are both scum?

I expressed multiple times I scumread volxen.

Also DrJ didn't seem to do anything other than bugging me for inactivity when like the entire playerlist was inactive.

Like the generic scumreads are "scum are creature and keyser, never rescinding blah blah blah"

even though it should be pretty obvious keyser and I aren't scum together.

I'm probably getting to the point where I feel like I should scumread anyone who scumreads me.

We'll, I'm off to bed
Hoping town does the right thing and votes creature

It will flip scum, I'm 99% sure

Lcp


Also @tw what 521 page monstrosity is that?!

Yes, that's why I asked TW about it as well. I don't intend to read all 521 pages of Heroes Wanted, but I feel like reading a portion of it could hopefully help me to understand TW's meta read of Creature. That's why I would like TW to narrow down what portion of that game would be most beneficial to read.

lol this post

Is this the entirety of your read on volxen or

While the worst, Keyser and I were arguing, volxen just came, deposited "yes, i agree yada yada" and left.

We'll, I'm off to bed
Hoping town does the right thing and votes creature

It will flip scum, I'm 99% sure

Lcp


Also @tw what 521 page monstrosity is that?!

Yes, that's why I asked TW about it as well. I don't intend to read all 521 pages of Heroes Wanted, but I feel like reading a portion of it could hopefully help me to understand TW's meta read of Creature. That's why I would like TW to narrow down what portion of that game would be most beneficial to read.

lol this post

Like volxen who just came here to fart and left

So now I am scum because I asked TW about another game of yours because it might help me to read your slot?

You don't seem to have a genuine interest in solving this game.

VOTE: Creature

Also I'm pretty sure scum are aware of the "oh scum will always townread town!creature", so likely they'd try to break it like this game.

DrJekill is the most likely scum imo.

Though, I don't feel like telling why.

Throw me some reasoning

You've played that open where I was IC.

lol even this game I'm putting more effort than that other game.

tell me, has creature obv. towned yet?

First 10 posts-
-I dont see anything AI, mostly memes/not really content posts

Cool I almost posted in a game that ended months ago

Next 10 posts-i see a few things here
-196 the stuff about replacing out seems like natural interaction? I don’t really know I just kinda like the tone from it
-200 this post gives me strong town pings, specifically saying “dont send me to heaven”

21-30
-202 *pats*
-204 you poor soul.
-218 I dont know where this read comes from? He hasn’t said anything about tw, and all of a sudden “oh hey your probably right on TW”
-219 makes my heart feel warm inside 0.0 but on a serious note It does seem weird, but why would scum say a single intro RvS post reads town? pocket?

31-40
-225 prove it. Insofar you can, this post is fine, but if you aren’t trying, this is probably LAMIST

41-50
-240 personally feel towny tone here, but I also think this is a stretch
-319 why are you bringing this up again?? And the “i wouldn’t notice it myself though” sounds like “oh hey I didn’t get a scum rc so I couldn’t see that”
-323 personally I abhor self-meta, but I know people do it on this site (?) so im in-between here. Reasoning is b/c if someone knows their meta enough to comment about it, can’t they manipulate it? like, creature says “i’d give town reads as scum”
> gives like, 1 townread.
“oh hey I cant be scum”
-329 do you have a response to their vote?

51-60
-330 then does it
-331 can you elaborate a bit more on “he did enough” and why you are hesistant?
-332 towny vibes
-338 I have no idea the context, but I feel towny ping he doesn’t want to do unnatural things.

61-70
-466 isn’t that what you did? (except for saying it outloud)

71-80
-471 town ping, scum would force reads out, town wants to make accurate reads
-479 was that an actual scum read?




81-90
502 do you feel you are doing that this game? And is it normal as all alignments?
504as above town ping, scum would try to force a read
511above

91-100
525 its all well and good to try to make reads the way you want, but its normally good to have some reads by that point of the game… I still like how you aren’t giving in to people forcing you to make reads, as I feel scum would, but I think its about time…
556 mostly calm reaction to the vote, but it also strikes me a bit odd
“ I dont care if you vote me just don’t Lynch me” feels like an indirect way of saying “why the fuck did you vote me”

101-110
558 this made me laugh
568 most people like it when you give reasons for town reads ;_;
please?
572 I dont know whats going on in this post

111-120
580 :3
582 *pat*
611 do it. I dare you.
612 I also want an explanation from lab

121-130
622 why des it matter if he’s an alt?
656 what do you mean? You think volxen is scum, or you think this puts us into judgement day? And if you think volxen is scum explain. And if you think everyone is town, explain.
657 I see that too, but why go pure shade instead of asking WHY rel is sleeping TW?
662 can you explain why you SR volxen?


131-141
666 speak of the devil, please don’t do this. Odd coincidence for the post numbers lmao.
671 so basically your read is he had a wolf pop-in. Got it. But what about the rest of his posts? scummy? Towny but not enough to counter-act, null?
681 IM HERE BISH AND YOU CANT STOP THIS
682 well, its also statisticly likely that at least 1 is scum, based on there being 4/9 players and 3/9 are scum…
684 when did you change the read?

142-155
-685 try to draw a conclusion yourself, as well as asking
-686 MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA
-687 again, you literally need to have worse reads than RNG(i’ve seen it happen) to not have one of these be scum
-688 do you truly believe this?
-691 I think you should
-693 so you don’t acknowledge the fact that you could be scum and people think you might be scum??????? Everyone that scum reads you, no matter what, your skeptical of?
-699 ok.

conclusion:

So, i saw a lot of posts that gave me towny pings and i felt the tone was towny, but i also read a few that just made me go "WTF???" so i don't think i can consider this strong town, but i definitely have a townread here

this is what i feel needs to happen for heaven phase

Heaven 1: send the towniest person we can spare(basically mislynch bait)
Hell 1: hopefully scum, but if town its ok
Heaven 2: this is when it gets interesting with this amount of players, ESPECIALLY if we put town into both heaven and hell phase 1.
IF we send another mislynch bait we can spare to heaven, then thats 3 townies down and puts us into judgement day, with the experienced players left and only the inexperienced ones to solve in judgement day, where the thread is closed.
IF we send a super towny experienced player(im not naming any names but Irrelephant for example) they will do better in judgement day, but we will have a mislynch bait player in the thread maybe? but hopefully we feel good enough with it how it is.

IF we lynch town to hell Phase 1, i suggest putting experienced player to heavem
IF we lynch scum to hell Phase 1, i suggest putting towny/spareable player to heaven and continuing from there.

sorry if any of these offend you, im just using the words for lack of better

he is active lurking but yeah not aggressively inactive

thanks for being the reality check i've been yearning for, i indeed am no longer confident in my ability to read creature. uuRRGGHHH

i feel like within the context of knowing his meta he's transparently playing as scum!creature but like. i'm not 100% sure that's scum indicative anymore.

exhausting.


pedit: eragon please claim your full role and alignment right now thanks

he is active lurking but yeah not aggressively inactive

thanks for being the reality check i've been yearning for, i indeed am no longer confident in my ability to read creature. uuRRGGHHH

i feel like within the context of knowing his meta he's transparently playing as scum!creature but like. i'm not 100% sure that's scum indicative anymore.

exhausting.


pedit: eragon please claim your full role and alignment right now thanks

A quick note about WW theory and how I will play this game. Note that the arguments and facts presented here are indisputable, and that I will not engage in arguments about them, because those arguments are you wasting everyone else's time about meta that is well and comprehensively established. Go make reads so we can read you.

I've reflected on my role and realized that there is a GTO play for me in this game, and therefore I am compelled to pursue it. I am going to brute force my clearness immediately upon the opening of the thread.

I am hard-claiming, and I will never be rescinding. I am the cop. When it becomes prudent I will provide my check.

Benefits:

1. I will survive tonight: I do not believe the wolves are able to kill me tonight, because it is so objectively unlikely that I would ever do this as the cop. I believe that this decision reduces the importance of the cop cover to be provided by all of you to the point of it being negligible. The wolves have already been outplayed, as it were.

2. I'm lock clear: All of you already know I'm lock clear, because it is so objectively unlikely that I would do this as a wolf. You know this for at least two reasons. First, this is the easiest, lowest-stress, lowest-demand game to wolf in that I've ever played in (except for turbos). I have no need to complicate my life, as a wolf, by open-claiming on thread open, when all Ihave to do is provide like a C-level wolf game to probably win. This is the rare instance where you literally know that I have a billion other options as a wolf, AND that I would pursue probably ALL of them before pursuing this. Second, I engage in FPS exceedingly rarely, which necessarily means that I *know* that this will look WEIRD and SHOCKING to you. There is no merit to a wolf play that instantly generates WEIRD and SHOCKED responses that I would be obligated to finesse and manage for the remainder of the game. As a villager, which I am, the burden is totally on you to not $#@! up and lynch me. Makes my life super awesome.

3. There are only 11 players you need to try to read, rather than 12: I have already provided a "free" check of me in a game with a mere 13 players. Our win equity is dramatically improved by my being entirely off the table for the entire game.

Conclusion:

The burden of sound reasoning is now entirely upon you. I am the cop, and thus a villager, and thus lock clear. The game is immediately simpler than it would otherwise have been, because of my decision. Now, let us enjoy that benefit and win the game.

Also, to preempt a lengthy and pointless discussion.

It is NOT dumb to ponder this post and convince yourself of its wisdom. That is your obligation as a villager, and I encourage you to think it over for as long as it takes to quell your (initially valid but ultimately unnecessary) concerns.

It IS dumb to, AFTER doing that pondering, conclude that I'm "neutral" or "wolfy." That is legitimately stupid, and I won't entertain it. ONE of the reasons it is a stupid conclusion is that the upside of this play as a wolf is absolutely DWARFED by the upside of this play as a villager. There is no equivalency between the EV gain for wolf-me in this position and villager-me in this position. They're universes apart. That means I wouldn't DO the poorer option of the two (by extension, wolf-me also wouldn't BELIEVE that I could convince the entire game of the truth of these assertions for the entire game, which as an end-game wolf I would have to believe if this strategem were to be worth pursuing). A SECOND reason that conclusion is stupid is that the EV bonus of doing this as a wolf is COMPLETELY DWARFED by me baseline wolf EV anyway. Anything that complicates my wolfing life is RIDICULOUSLY stupid for me to do, given that my wolfing life is ALREADY one of the smoothest, highest expectation wolfing lives in WW history anyway. A THIRD reason that conclusion is stupid is that you would probably have to worry about being EXPLOITED by this gambit in order to get there. However, I have NEVER engaged in this, or any similar, gambit in my entire career, meaning that if there IS exploitation to be had with this play, it is in FUTURE GAMES, not this game. For these reasons, pressuring me is extremely wolfy and should not be engaged in by any villager, ever, in this game. There will be no less productive pursuit than that in this game.

Sucks for the wolves when meta is wielded this brutally, but my allegiance is plain and my strategy perfect. Get #rekt.

Goddamnit my internet just went down.

Uhhhh


Well...

Eragon-meme is love, Meme is life

Creature- town

TW- skim town, needs deeper look

Dr.J- skim scum lean, needs deeper look

Keyser- haven’t seen nothing yet(no read)
Irrel(ain’t seen nothig but that sheeped read yet) no read

Lefty- no read

Lab rat- no read

Volxen- laugh read from creature’s posts about farting. No read

I think some of their pushes have been surface level and opportunistic but not in a way that is pro mislynch if that makes sense. The fluidity of their reads and the timing on how they've shifted between pushes also feels towny. If they're scum they do not give a fuck about appearances which is chilled

I really struggle with Korina's playstyle regularly bc I always find him reach and opportunistic feeling but as town he is jUSt trYING and I kinda have to bend myself into a pretzel to read it correctly without surrendering to my natural bias. but I'm seeing it here more than I usually see it. Lcp has a pretty similar energy wrt jUSt trYING and I've found him like pretty much fine but I'm townreading Korina more atm

lmk if this makes sense, I think we're seeing pretty similar behaviours in the hydra's iso just coming at it from different angles

Spoiler: fluff for Irrelphant

Yeah, you're not actually voting/sheeping TW's target right now. You're just trying to kill a townie :/
Out of 9 players with 3 scum in it, I am your #1 scum lord trying to send innocent animals to hell?

No I don't buy you think that. Unfortunately you're caught in the web. I am thus forced to look at you to try find out if you're an innocent bystander or pulling the strings.

1 At worst I am a townie who has de-railed/slowed down two wagons on two legitimate obvious scum, and will pay the consequences.
2 At best I am a townie trying to reshake the stubborn mindscape of the majority and trying to stop the planned misslynches.

(Currently I believe in 2. If it's 1, it's another learning lesson for me for being to paranoid)

My only allie this game is Creature , who I helped to put to L-1 who actually thinks I'm "genuine".


I will promise to stop talking about me now, as this does nothing to help me achieve my win-con, only to protect my image with a disclaimer

Tell me why Volxen is in the 75%-99% town criteria right now?
I admittedly witnessed a technical "improvement", but I am hesitant to invest

serious

town coin in that slot right now.
Please convince me there.

Okay

To start, volxen and I just finished a newbie game together tvt.
One of the biggest differences I saw in his play in the newbie vs in Watchmen Wanted was in how he formed reads. In WW his reads were something like "This player is pushing someone I think is town, therefore scum" and "lurking is scummy". That's about as deep as he ever got (read: so shallow they're not even in the water, even as he wrote walls to say it all)
In the newbie, his reads were "This player's suggestions help a pro-scum agenda, therefore scum" and "This player's play would be extremely risky and likely to fail if scum, therefore town". The first of the two reads I'm describing here (scumread on varsoon) was wrong, but he
a) clearly believed it
2) was considering other players' motivations in both cases, which showed much deeper thinking about "why" someone's play is scummy, rather than leaning on caricatures of scummy play to make other players more mislynchable.

From his 307 - "I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town."
This paragraph alone is halfway to townclearing for volxen imo. It reminds me of his push on Varsoon - probably wrong (if I'm right about labrat), but he believes it and is taking into account more than surface-level scum traits. He's really trying to find another player's motivations.

I won't say volxen HAS to be town here, because I will take into account his tryhard-ness and comments he's made about wanting to improve his scumgame, but I think his similarities to his play in the newbie and the difference between this and WW is notable and obvious - not to mention he is game solving mostly un-prompted so far, whereas a lot of the development of his reads in WW came after he was wagoned

the fact that tw also meta-townreads volxen helps confirm, as I think regardless of tw's alignment he'd probably agree that this is very different from the weak scumgame we've seen from volxen, and is very similar to town!volxen as seen elsewhere

How do you read him?

I won't say volxen HAS to be town here, because I will take into account his tryhard-ness and comments he's made about wanting to improve his scumgame, but I think his similarities to his play in the newbie and the difference between this and WW is notable and obvious - not to mention he is game solving mostly un-prompted so far, whereas a lot of the development of his reads in WW came after he was wagoned

the fact that tw also meta-townreads volxen helps confirm, as I think regardless of tw's alignment he'd probably agree that this is very different from the weak scumgame we've seen from volxen, and is very similar to town!volxen as seen elsewhere

Strongly agree with this post and strongly agree with the quoted as well. I was half tempted to push him as scum to see how he reacted (we TvT'd in my first IC game genuinely and by the end of it volxy in particular was v v obvtown) but given the depth of nuance in his reads I don't think I need to

I actually think they're indicative of the trajectory of his improving towngame more so than where I'd expect to see his scumgame improve (i.e. I strongly agree that he believes what he's saying) and would be pretty surprised if he has improved this markedly and in such a surprisingly specific way as scum

He might be my strongest townread following your read here. :0

[/quote]

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

First 10 posts-
-I dont see anything AI, mostly memes/not really content posts

Cool I almost posted in a game that ended months ago

Next 10 posts-i see a few things here
-196 the stuff about replacing out seems like natural interaction? I don’t really know I just kinda like the tone from it
-200 this post gives me strong town pings, specifically saying “dont send me to heaven”

21-30
-202 *pats*
-204 you poor soul.
-218 I dont know where this read comes from? He hasn’t said anything about tw, and all of a sudden “oh hey your probably right on TW”
-219 makes my heart feel warm inside 0.0 but on a serious note It does seem weird, but why would scum say a single intro RvS post reads town? pocket?

31-40
-225 prove it. Insofar you can, this post is fine, but if you aren’t trying, this is probably LAMIST

41-50
-240 personally feel towny tone here, but I also think this is a stretch
-319 why are you bringing this up again?? And the “i wouldn’t notice it myself though” sounds like “oh hey I didn’t get a scum rc so I couldn’t see that”
-323 personally I abhor self-meta, but I know people do it on this site (?) so im in-between here. Reasoning is b/c if someone knows their meta enough to comment about it, can’t they manipulate it? like, creature says “i’d give town reads as scum”
> gives like, 1 townread.
“oh hey I cant be scum”
-329 do you have a response to their vote?

51-60
-330 then does it
-331 can you elaborate a bit more on “he did enough” and why you are hesistant?
-332 towny vibes
-338 I have no idea the context, but I feel towny ping he doesn’t want to do unnatural things.

61-70
-466 isn’t that what you did? (except for saying it outloud)

71-80
-471 town ping, scum would force reads out, town wants to make accurate reads
-479 was that an actual scum read?




81-90
502 do you feel you are doing that this game? And is it normal as all alignments?
504as above town ping, scum would try to force a read
511above

91-100
525 its all well and good to try to make reads the way you want, but its normally good to have some reads by that point of the game… I still like how you aren’t giving in to people forcing you to make reads, as I feel scum would, but I think its about time…
556 mostly calm reaction to the vote, but it also strikes me a bit odd
“ I dont care if you vote me just don’t Lynch me” feels like an indirect way of saying “why the fuck did you vote me”

101-110
558 this made me laugh
568 most people like it when you give reasons for town reads ;_;
please?
572 I dont know whats going on in this post

111-120
580 :3
582 *pat*
611 do it. I dare you.
612 I also want an explanation from lab

121-130
622 why des it matter if he’s an alt?
656 what do you mean? You think volxen is scum, or you think this puts us into judgement day? And if you think volxen is scum explain. And if you think everyone is town, explain.
657 I see that too, but why go pure shade instead of asking WHY rel is sleeping TW?
662 can you explain why you SR volxen?


131-141
666 speak of the devil, please don’t do this. Odd coincidence for the post numbers lmao.
671 so basically your read is he had a wolf pop-in. Got it. But what about the rest of his posts? scummy? Towny but not enough to counter-act, null?
681 IM HERE BISH AND YOU CANT STOP THIS
682 well, its also statisticly likely that at least 1 is scum, based on there being 4/9 players and 3/9 are scum…
684 when did you change the read?

142-155
-685 try to draw a conclusion yourself, as well as asking
-686 MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA
-687 again, you literally need to have worse reads than RNG(i’ve seen it happen) to not have one of these be scum
-688 do you truly believe this?
-691 I think you should
-693 so you don’t acknowledge the fact that you could be scum and people think you might be scum??????? Everyone that scum reads you, no matter what, your skeptical of?
-699 ok.

conclusion:

So, i saw a lot of posts that gave me towny pings and i felt the tone was towny, but i also read a few that just made me go "WTF???" so i don't think i can consider this strong town, but i definitely have a townread here

Alright, so you've done a fairly detailed ISO dive of Creature. And it also seems you not only believe that Creature is town, but he is your strongest townread. It seems like you came to that conclusion fairly easily, but if Creature is somehow obvious town, then several players (including myself) are missing it, so it's a bit concerning to me that he became your strongest townread so quickly and so easily. Especially because a lot of the things you listed as being townie for him could easily be faked by scum. For example:

-196 the stuff about replacing out seems like natural interaction? I don’t really know I just kinda like the tone from it

Why is him asking Lefty whether he replaced out more likely to come from town!Creature than scum!Creature? I don't really see that as being AI at all.

-200 this post gives me strong town pings, specifically saying “dont send me to heaven”

Scum could do that just as well to try to make themselves look more towny, especially with his whole follow-up of "I don't plan to be sent to heaven early anyway. I'm more of an endgame guy." in post 382.

-319 why are you bringing this up again?? And the “i wouldn’t notice it myself though” sounds like “oh hey I didn’t get a scum rc so I couldn’t see that”

When Labrat brought up the typo about the mafia RC saying "aligned with town" in post 6, people were quick to point out that that may be more likely to come from scum than town (i.e., scum would be more likely to notice the typo), which may be a fair assessment. But why is Creature's response of "I wouldn't notice it myself though" townie? Couldn't that just be scum!Creature making a joke about it in jest?

-332 towny vibes

Why? In that post he says, "tbh I'm more ready to send players to heaven than scum to hell." Considering it's arguably a lot worse to send scum to heaven than it is to send a townie to hell, why does he get town points for that?

-471 town ping, scum would force reads out, town wants to make accurate reads

Like volxen who just came here to fart and left

As in, you think DrJ and Volxen are both scum?

I expressed multiple times I scumread volxen.

Also DrJ didn't seem to do anything other than bugging me for inactivity when like the entire playerlist was inactive.

That might have been a fair point to make for Creature earlier in the game, but his read of me is either forced/faked (if he is scum) or incredibly lazy (if he is town). I asked TW legitimate questions about the Heroes Wanted game (since TW himself brought it up as his basis for meta reading Creature), and Creature responds by throwing shade at me saying I was "fart posting" by asking about the game. It came across like he was more interested in throwing shade at me rather than trying to accurately sort my slot.

Now if Creature is in-fact town, I agree with his assessment in post 682 that he probably didn't get up to L-1 without scum involvement, especially since a third of the playerlist is scum. And I am one of the people on his wagon, so it makes sense for town!Creature to be critical of my slot. But his wagon consisted of myself, Dr. J., The Worst, and Keyser. He has been throwing shade at me and Dr. J, but why is he not being critical of the rest of his wagon? He seems to be giving Keyser in particular an easy townread, as he seems convinced that Keyser is the only person on his wagon that is town. But he never explained why Keyser's joining of his wagon is more "genuine" than TW, Dr. J, or myself joining his wagon:

Keyser feels like the most genuine atleast. The rest all have some scum equity.

Now I think there's very likely scum among {DrJ, the worst, volxen}

I could see any of them deciding to push me as scum.

Any why doesn't he consider the possibility that Keyser could be pushing him as scum as well? Why is Keyser the only person on his wagon that gets a free pass?

I'm just not seeing anything in Creature's ISO or interactions that is strongly indicative of him being town. It really feels like you are giving Creature an incredibly easy townread.

about as neutral as it should be I think

So he’s just WIFOM shooting... shouting names for null fun...?

Including his scum read of Volxen + Dr J (two of the most loved slots this game)?

My brain aches because I think having nonsense reads which go against the grain is >rand town but citing meta and calling people bad when you're asked to explain them is >rand wolf (refer: my scumgame)

if he is indeed scum yeah he just yells random names. there isn't a discerbable rhyme or reason to whether or not he would treat a scumbuddy or a townie the way he's treating you I don't think

I can re dive Heroes Wanted or smth to see if it might spew you but his meta is in a state of aggressive flux so like, I don't want to

“

Yells random names

”
Good, just protecting myself incase he does flip mafia

I just thought to myself, in that scenario, he may be trying to shade two of the most established universal town reads by instilling paranoia in our minds... then link me to himself via an unexplained town read!

Good thing he isn’t scum though right!

He’s probably pocketed me in the sense I empathasized with his frustration yesterday (his appeal to emotion, regardless of alignment) made me want to take a step back. When you’re in the same boat as someone you can’t just help but feel like brothers. If the shoe was on the other foot and I was L-1 i’m sure he would have

unvoted too!

hammered me probably

I was hoping he would expand on his t/read of me but I don’t think that’s his style.

But the thing why try pocket only me? I’m only one vote, who hasn’t got any serious credit or control right now, so it’s a wasted buddying attempt if anything. There are lots of more persuasive players out there willing to flip him today. Eragon wasn’t even directly buddied/pocketed.. he just jumped in there with a straight town read.

The read on creat is kind of easy, but not really weird considering that eragon hasn’t read anything from the thread yet

612 I also want an explanation from lab

From how I understood it, people were SRing Creat here because he tends to freeze as scum (lurks while badly pretending to be doing anything?), also if I understood it right, he’s not good at interacting with the townies as scum and has way worse reads than when playing town.
I haven’t seen any game where he’d be scum yet, but that’s what I understood about his scum meta so far. From what I know, he isn’t anywhere close to helpful as town either, but most of the time is sort of readable? (or at least that’s what other people say)

In the early game I kind of refrained from reading him because of my bad experiences with his town meta, but I didn’t like his interactions with TW in the mid-game. (515 and most of the interactions earlier (you can read the page and the previous one and it should be ok))
--------------------------
In short, TW was SRing Creat since quite a while and started interacting with him to get sth out of him and Creat responded mostly by empty-posting and refusing to do stuff while explaining it as town motivated/normal for him.
It kind of felt like he was just getting salty that people were SRing him, when he’s been doing similar stuff in his bad town games and refused to contribute not because he wasn’t able to, but “just for the sake of proving his point“. (which comes more often form scum than town imo)

And 515 and 516 kind of did it for me. Like, I think it’s rather common knowledge that hard jesting for reaction tests is a really bad way to get reads. Noobs may do it sometimes, but it’s weird seeing it coming from someone who played for a few years
It felt like absolute bullshit to me

I mean, I do have bad experiences with reading creat and the stuff about his town meta sometimes being shitty were true, but even if that’s true, if he’s gonna be unreadable and if he’s claiming to be doing it on purpose, I do not have any reason to waste my time by keeping him alive in the game. Just no

His latest posts were better though

Creature (4) - Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, the worst, Keyser Söze, volxen

First, this is never all town, specially if I'm town.

All of them reaching to the same wrong conclusion simply never happens in mafia history.

That was kinda townie.
The fact that he takes his “scum-flip” into probability when talking about interaction reads is not sth I think often comes from stressed scum.

Also I'm pretty sure scum are aware of the "oh scum will always townread town!creature", so likely they'd try to break it like this game.

waht.

like, it's pretty usual for scum to townread me because I will obvtown and they will look bad if I don't.

So they could push me as scum and when they turn to be wrong they can use the argument above.

And maaaybe that

I also kinda liked his “farting” read on volx, but meh

he kind of jumped up for me from an: "absolutely lynch" position to sth like: "yeah, ok.... go on..."

I'll probably just let you find the tells there.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm being wrong and Creature is actually willing to be bad town to fix his lopsided meta

Huh? I'm not being bad town.

stop whinging and play the game more then :p

Sure

(even though I'm the top poster)

P.Edit
About the heaven lynch, I think I’d be fine with volx after all
That’s not personally my strong SR, but if he really is scum (I'm kind of tempted to believe in the TRs on him, but meh), that’s a very valuable flip to get (even if it’s a heaven lynch imo)
I really doubt that scum would just remain idle if they got such a wonderful opportunity to get rid of one of them to heaven and only 2 people (as far as I remember) seemed to strongly push them being town

VOTE: eragon

Elaborate please (or quote the read cuz your posts are long and I might have missed it xd )

----------------------

I disagree with most of it, but I think volx’s read on eragon was good

----------------------

And sorry, that’s just a catchup, I got back like 2 hours ago, so I haven’t been able to do anything yet
Going to sleep rn, but I will 100% have time to work on my reads tomorrow
Sry for that

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... er_sort=Go

Creature's finished scumgame, he's even townier than he is here
He's either a wolf or he's literally gamethrowing to fix his lopsided meta which is like.. bannably shit.

I like to think he's a wolf.

Kinda think analysing theatre here makes me want to to revisit Creature/Keyser associatives

if we mislynch and it's policy, good. He can learn not to be shit.

Fyi considering I love a good gaslighting as scum, I do not take kindly to it as town, especially when it is transparently gaslighting with no substance.

Don't care about natural and tonal just want content
You don't strike me as the type of person who tries to be shit as either alignment and you're actually generally someone I really enjoy playing with, it just feels like you're desperate to avoid playing this game regardless of your lip service

besides you and me convince me on someone who is locktown beyond belief? then we're at a 50% chance of hitting red. convince me on two and were up to 60% and this one's in the bag

Hi Eragon
Strong entrance.
I’m happy you’ve joined us x

happy :3

One thing, what do you mean “timing between the push”?

The flitting between dog with a bone and just poking and prodding which makes them look like a woofer

this somehow made me even more confused

Well if TW is town, then maybe scum after sheeping his wrong reads.

I didn’t like how D1 right through to D4 was already planned out without at least a third of the playerlist not contributing. That stinks. Maybe just exuberant over-confidence from Ducky then.

Creature-Keyser-LabRat: Gamesolve? No judge. That is not.

so going off of how you explained it in a later post
this is saying
"he might be town if he's not the agena driven scumlord"
"but i dont like his D1-D4 pre-setup", which IMO feels pretty nitpicky, especially due to the likelihood of change,
"Creature-keyser-lab" gamesolve? nope." now, here im not sure if you are talking about YOU thinking those three are town and asking if thats gamesolve, of if you are talking about THE WORST thinking you 3 are scum, and saying thats not gamesolve.

IF its the first, then is that not a good start D1? having 1/3 of the playerlist sorted out and have a 50% chance of RNG'ing a correct lynch? If i could find 2 people i feel strongly enough to be lock-town i'd be happy.
IF its the latter, then do you have anything else to say about it than "nope you are wrong"?

I'm townreading too much of the playerlist... Hm.
Keyser what did that first sentence mean?

"Well if TW is town, then maybe scum after sheeping his wrong reads."

TW doesn't have to be the agenda-driving scumlord. Scum will more likely be in his allies, hiding in his sails, completing his conquest for him.
Unfortunately that means I'm looking at you right now among others.
I now await Lefty's next move (or inevitable replace out) to complete the picture.

so are you thinking tw is town being sheeped by scum or tw scum and sheep scum or tw scum and sheep town?
im getting mixed signals from your posts here.

in fact sheeping is town indicative for me, and you know this ???
eragon, come vote keyser with me

I'm not sure if you are talking to me or keyser, but i do know i don't know sheeping is town indicative for you.
the only game i've played with you i think is WW, where i felt you were pretty nuanced and the epitome of non-sheepy(tbf i didnt pay much attention due to insta lock-towning you) but i still feel you weren't really sheeping?

also, have you explained why keyser is scum, or is it new?
and why ask me specifically?
especially going to show in the next post you make(or one of them) you voted me, so FYPOV you asked scum to vote with you?

Spoiler: fluff for Irrelphant

Yeah, you're not actually voting/sheeping TW's target right now. You're just trying to kill a townie :/
Out of 9 players with 3 scum in it, I am your #1 scum lord trying to send innocent animals to hell?

No I don't buy you think that. Unfortunately you're caught in the web. I am thus forced to look at you to try find out if you're an innocent bystander or pulling the strings.

1 At worst I am a townie who has de-railed/slowed down two wagons on two legitimate obvious scum, and will pay the consequences.
2 At best I am a townie trying to reshake the stubborn mindscape of the majority and trying to stop the planned misslynches.

(Currently I believe in 2. If it's 1, it's another learning lesson for me for being to paranoid)

My only allie this game is Creature , who I helped to put to L-1 who actually thinks I'm "genuine".


I will promise to stop talking about me now, as this does nothing to help me achieve my win-con, only to protect my image with a disclaimer

Tell me why Volxen is in the 75%-99% town criteria right now?
I admittedly witnessed a technical "improvement", but I am hesitant to invest

serious

town coin in that slot right now.
Please convince me there.

i feel the first part is a lot of shade and AtE, but ofc those are things that can come from town as well...

Okay

To start, volxen and I just finished a newbie game together tvt.
One of the biggest differences I saw in his play in the newbie vs in Watchmen Wanted was in how he formed reads. In WW his reads were something like "This player is pushing someone I think is town, therefore scum" and "lurking is scummy". That's about as deep as he ever got (read: so shallow they're not even in the water, even as he wrote walls to say it all)
In the newbie, his reads were "This player's suggestions help a pro-scum agenda, therefore scum" and "This player's play would be extremely risky and likely to fail if scum, therefore town". The first of the two reads I'm describing here (scumread on varsoon) was wrong, but he
a) clearly believed it
2) was considering other players' motivations in both cases, which showed much deeper thinking about "why" someone's play is scummy, rather than leaning on caricatures of scummy play to make other players more mislynchable.

From his 307 - "I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town."
This paragraph alone is halfway to townclearing for volxen imo. It reminds me of his push on Varsoon - probably wrong (if I'm right about labrat), but he believes it and is taking into account more than surface-level scum traits. He's really trying to find another player's motivations.

I won't say volxen HAS to be town here, because I will take into account his tryhard-ness and comments he's made about wanting to improve his scumgame, but I think his similarities to his play in the newbie and the difference between this and WW is notable and obvious - not to mention he is game solving mostly un-prompted so far, whereas a lot of the development of his reads in WW came after he was wagoned

the fact that tw also meta-townreads volxen helps confirm, as I think regardless of tw's alignment he'd probably agree that this is very different from the weak scumgame we've seen from volxen, and is very similar to town!volxen as seen elsewhere

How do you read him?

so you have a good enough meta read on volxen from his 14 posts(i think thats the #) that you are, as keyser puts it, "75-99% sure volxen is town"

i don't disagree with what you have posted, i disagree with the strength of the read you have.

VOTE: eragon

why the vote?
i haven't seen any progression from you, nor explanation, to warrant a naked vote.
especially after asking me to follow you on keyser, shows that you dont

truly

have a scumread on me, else why would you ask me to follow you?

I won't say volxen HAS to be town here, because I will take into account his tryhard-ness and comments he's made about wanting to improve his scumgame, but I think his similarities to his play in the newbie and the difference between this and WW is notable and obvious - not to mention he is game solving mostly un-prompted so far, whereas a lot of the development of his reads in WW came after he was wagoned

the fact that tw also meta-townreads volxen helps confirm, as I think regardless of tw's alignment he'd probably agree that this is very different from the weak scumgame we've seen from volxen, and is very similar to town!volxen as seen elsewhere

Strongly agree with this post and strongly agree with the quoted as well. I was half tempted to push him as scum to see how he reacted (we TvT'd in my first IC game genuinely and by the end of it volxy in particular was v v obvtown) but given the depth of nuance in his reads I don't think I need to

I actually think they're indicative of the trajectory of his improving towngame more so than where I'd expect to see his scumgame improve (i.e. I strongly agree that he believes what he's saying) and would be pretty surprised if he has improved this markedly and in such a surprisingly specific way as scum

He might be my strongest townread following your read here. :0

same as with reundo, i see the points, i agree with the read, i think its slightly to earler to have that be the strongest read IMHO.
if he continues with the nuance, sure, but i find it easy to start off a game well, but its when it gets later the true colors leak out.

I'm at a bit of an impasse. I wanna pressure Eragon bc it's hard to split his reads from lip service to solving but like also...

that's probably not going to do anything...

bolded part :thumbs_up:
I gave the reads that you asked me to give.
i didn't have time to do all of them, so i just put "No read"
its basically equal to me leaving out everyone i put "no read" on and only giving the ones i did, except i was making it clearer to you.

IF you're talking about my specific creature read, then explain why you think that might not be truly solving the game.

akshully Era's Creature read is pretty shocking but it doesn't feel as wolfy as I wish it did

Rel rel rel rel what's his theatre game like?

wat.

do you mean "what does eragon faking a read look like?"?

pedit: ok
keyser are you scum

what do you hope to gain by asking this question?

I don't remember eragon faking a towncase
I remember him faking a scumcase on ausuka

i can fake any case as scum if i want to

If i might do some horrid self-meta to clear things up,

Spoiler:

i find that as scum i have set parameters in what i want people to look like with my read on them, so i'll focus on making them look like town or making them look like scum as it would be. As town its more "solvey-ish" and trying to figure it out through the case,

First 10 posts-
-I dont see anything AI, mostly memes/not really content posts

Cool I almost posted in a game that ended months ago

Next 10 posts-i see a few things here
-196 the stuff about replacing out seems like natural interaction? I don’t really know I just kinda like the tone from it
-200 this post gives me strong town pings, specifically saying “dont send me to heaven”

21-30
-202 *pats*
-204 you poor soul.
-218 I dont know where this read comes from? He hasn’t said anything about tw, and all of a sudden “oh hey your probably right on TW”
-219 makes my heart feel warm inside 0.0 but on a serious note It does seem weird, but why would scum say a single intro RvS post reads town? pocket?

31-40
-225 prove it. Insofar you can, this post is fine, but if you aren’t trying, this is probably LAMIST

41-50
-240 personally feel towny tone here, but I also think this is a stretch
-319 why are you bringing this up again?? And the “i wouldn’t notice it myself though” sounds like “oh hey I didn’t get a scum rc so I couldn’t see that”
-323 personally I abhor self-meta, but I know people do it on this site (?) so im in-between here. Reasoning is b/c if someone knows their meta enough to comment about it, can’t they manipulate it? like, creature says “i’d give town reads as scum”
> gives like, 1 townread.
“oh hey I cant be scum”
-329 do you have a response to their vote?

51-60
-330 then does it
-331 can you elaborate a bit more on “he did enough” and why you are hesistant?
-332 towny vibes
-338 I have no idea the context, but I feel towny ping he doesn’t want to do unnatural things.

61-70
-466 isn’t that what you did? (except for saying it outloud)

71-80
-471 town ping, scum would force reads out, town wants to make accurate reads
-479 was that an actual scum read?




81-90
502 do you feel you are doing that this game? And is it normal as all alignments?
504as above town ping, scum would try to force a read
511above

91-100
525 its all well and good to try to make reads the way you want, but its normally good to have some reads by that point of the game… I still like how you aren’t giving in to people forcing you to make reads, as I feel scum would, but I think its about time…
556 mostly calm reaction to the vote, but it also strikes me a bit odd
“ I dont care if you vote me just don’t Lynch me” feels like an indirect way of saying “why the fuck did you vote me”

101-110
558 this made me laugh
568 most people like it when you give reasons for town reads ;_;
please?
572 I dont know whats going on in this post

111-120
580 :3
582 *pat*
611 do it. I dare you.
612 I also want an explanation from lab

121-130
622 why des it matter if he’s an alt?
656 what do you mean? You think volxen is scum, or you think this puts us into judgement day? And if you think volxen is scum explain. And if you think everyone is town, explain.
657 I see that too, but why go pure shade instead of asking WHY rel is sleeping TW?
662 can you explain why you SR volxen?


131-141
666 speak of the devil, please don’t do this. Odd coincidence for the post numbers lmao.
671 so basically your read is he had a wolf pop-in. Got it. But what about the rest of his posts? scummy? Towny but not enough to counter-act, null?
681 IM HERE BISH AND YOU CANT STOP THIS
682 well, its also statisticly likely that at least 1 is scum, based on there being 4/9 players and 3/9 are scum…
684 when did you change the read?

142-155
-685 try to draw a conclusion yourself, as well as asking
-686 MUAHAHAHAHAHAHA
-687 again, you literally need to have worse reads than RNG(i’ve seen it happen) to not have one of these be scum
-688 do you truly believe this?
-691 I think you should
-693 so you don’t acknowledge the fact that you could be scum and people think you might be scum??????? Everyone that scum reads you, no matter what, your skeptical of?
-699 ok.

conclusion:

So, i saw a lot of posts that gave me towny pings and i felt the tone was towny, but i also read a few that just made me go "WTF???" so i don't think i can consider this strong town, but i definitely have a townread here

Alright, so you've done a fairly detailed ISO dive of Creature. And it also seems you not only believe that Creature is town, but he is your strongest townread. It seems like you came to that conclusion fairly easily, but if Creature is somehow obvious town, then several players (including myself) are missing it, so it's a bit concerning to me that he became your strongest townread so quickly and so easily. Especially because a lot of the things you listed as being townie for him could easily be faked by scum. For example:

i'll do this in blue do to large post and hard reading.
So, for you're first point, saying that creature is my strongest townread: No duh? he's the only person i've full on read this game. i don't think he's obvious town, i read his tone and some of his posts as towny, but not all, and i can definitely see some scum in there. I feel he's town, thats all. again "its concering that he became your strongest townread so quickly and easily" its not hard to be the strongest townread when theres only 1 thought through townread, now is it? ITs like saying I got first place in a one person tournament.

-196 the stuff about replacing out seems like natural interaction? I don’t really know I just kinda like the tone from it

Why is him asking Lefty whether he replaced out more likely to come from town!Creature than scum!Creature? I don't really see that as being AI at all.

Its not the comment itself, i felt the tone was slightly natural IMO, as clearly stated in my post.
"i dont know, i just kinda like the tone"
meaning its not the content thats ai, its my read on how his post read

-200 this post gives me strong town pings, specifically saying “dont send me to heaven”

Scum could do that just as well to try to make themselves look more towny, especially with his whole follow-up of "I don't plan to be sent to heaven early anyway. I'm more of an endgame guy." in post 382.

eh, agreed.

-319 why are you bringing this up again?? And the “i wouldn’t notice it myself though” sounds like “oh hey I didn’t get a scum rc so I couldn’t see that”

When Labrat brought up the typo about the mafia RC saying "aligned with town" in post 6, people were quick to point out that that may be more likely to come from scum than town (i.e., scum would be more likely to notice the typo), which may be a fair assessment. But why is Creature's response of "I wouldn't notice it myself though" townie? Couldn't that just be scum!Creature making a joke about it in jest?

This is a reason that i think Creature could be scum? did you think i was calling him town here? i felt it was kinda LAMIST actually.

-332 towny vibes

Why? In that post he says, "tbh I'm more ready to send players to heaven than scum to hell." Considering it's arguably a lot worse to send scum to heaven than it is to send a townie to hell, why does he get town points for that?

*shrug* i can see both sides of the coins, i actually misread this the opposite way, and i liked he was being consitent with "hard to get townreads right now" but re-reading it this way that is invalid.

-471 town ping, scum would force reads out, town wants to make accurate reads

Like volxen who just came here to fart and left

[/quote]

As in, you think DrJ and Volxen are both scum?

I expressed multiple times I scumread volxen.

Also DrJ didn't seem to do anything other than bugging me for inactivity when like the entire playerlist was inactive.

That might have been a fair point to make for Creature earlier in the game, but his read of me is either forced/faked (if he is scum) or incredibly lazy (if he is town). I asked TW legitimate questions about the Heroes Wanted game (since TW himself brought it up as his basis for meta reading Creature), and Creature responds by throwing shade at me saying I was "fart posting" by asking about the game. It came across like he was more interested in throwing shade at me rather than trying to accurately sort my slot.

i don't find "he came in to fart and then left" as a very shade-y post, but i give you if thats his only reason for Sr'ing you thats a bit odd.

Now if Creature is in-fact town, I agree with his assessment in post 682 that he probably didn't get up to L-1 without scum involvement, especially since a third of the playerlist is scum. And I am one of the people on his wagon, so it makes sense for town!Creature to be critical of my slot. But his wagon consisted of myself, Dr. J., The Worst, and Keyser. He has been throwing shade at me and Dr. J, but why is he not being critical of the rest of his wagon? He seems to be giving Keyser in particular an easy townread, as he seems convinced that Keyser is the only person on his wagon that is town. But he never explained why Keyser's joining of his wagon is more "genuine" than TW, Dr. J, or myself joining his wagon:

he hasn't explained a lot of things this game tbf, but i don't think he's being very critical of TW because i agree, i find TW pretty towny rn, and i also remember from quick skim Dr. J being pushy(which i figured out is NAI) and you not having a lot of posts, so i understand why he focuses on those 2.

Keyser feels like the most genuine atleast. The rest all have some scum equity.

Now I think there's very likely scum among {DrJ, the worst, volxen}

I could see any of them deciding to push me as scum.

Any why doesn't he consider the possibility that Keyser could be pushing him as scum as well? Why is Keyser the only person on his wagon that gets a free pass?

you are sort of contradicting yourself here, earlier you said "hes only being critical of Me and Doc J" but here it shows he thinks TW might be scum too. (i posted the above about not pushing TW based off of what you said and without reading on so im just keeping that their but you can ignore it if you want) and maybe because he thinks keyser is town??? i admit he hasn't explained it yet, and he should, but b/c he does townread keyser, why would he consider keyser is scum pushing him>?

I'm just not seeing anything in Creature's ISO or interactions that is strongly indicative of him being town. It really feels like you are giving Creature an incredibly easy townread.[/quote]

maybe there isnt, maybe i am. i feel that he is town, its fine that people disagree. Its by no means a strong read, and i could see him flipping scum, i just don't think so if i was forced to give a read on the spot, i'd say town over scum.

So 724 seems to be how eragon formats any deep read he makes as either alignment (I remember learning this upon metadive to figure out his scumgame)
Umm his fake scumread of Ausuka in Watchmen Wanted consisted mostly of "Can't explain this??" and "one interpretation of this post would be ____, and that's the one I pick"
doesn't focus much on trajectory so much as isolated moments

...that's all I got, it's kinda hard to pick out what makes a fake read fake, plus at the time I believed his reads mostly

Ye pretty much.

yea I think his creature case is more consistent with how town eragon forms reads but the actual content is like... babby no....

@volxy good post gimme a sec.

why do you think the content is bad? simply cuz you disagree?

actually Era needs to respond to your post, me throwing my weight around would be a waste of time. plus I only weigh as much as a witch

^_^ ofc i'll respond.
also, im fine with you pushing the read too, it helps me iron the kinks out of my case(like the things volxen pointed out different interpretations for), and every little bit counts you fluffy little featherweight

In your opinion, does scum-Creature saying I’m the only “genuine” mofo, good or bad in terms of associations with him?

why do you even need to ask this??

about as neutral as it should be I think

So he’s just WIFOM shooting... shouting names for null fun...?

Including his scum read of Volxen + Dr J (two of the most loved slots this game)?

My brain aches because I think having nonsense reads which go against the grain is >rand town but citing meta and calling people bad when you're asked to explain them is >rand wolf (refer: my scumgame)

if he is indeed scum yeah he just yells random names. there isn't a discerbable rhyme or reason to whether or not he would treat a scumbuddy or a townie the way he's treating you I don't think

I can re dive Heroes Wanted or smth to see if it might spew you but his meta is in a state of aggressive flux so like, I don't want to

“

Yells random names

”
Good, just protecting myself incase he does flip mafia

I just thought to myself, in that scenario, he may be trying to shade two of the most established universal town reads by instilling paranoia in our minds... then link me to himself via an unexplained town read!

Good thing he isn’t scum though right!

this post strikes me as really weird, like "protecting myself incase he does flip mafia" why would town post this, or why would town plan on needing to protect themselves if their townread flipped scum??
and "good thing he isnt scum though right!" feels forced and OTT, and doesn't really fit with the rest of the post.

In your opinion, does scum-Creature saying I’m the only “genuine” mofo, good or bad in terms of associations with him?

If I may answer that as well, in my opinion its scum buddying town, given I see no reason from his perspective to see why you should be genuine. I have difficulty reading you tbh but I'd... tenatively mark you as slight town, and this goes to confirm that.

I've felt tw to be town, however, I do have a thought that he could also be scum with creature given it would be natural for him to bus his scum partner. I'm fairly confident he isn't esp as I don't think scum would be a second vote on a wagon on their partner, but I'll want to revisit that to see what other interactions there are there.

"given i see no reason from his perspective"
well i see the problem already
you can't see from his perspective
ya'll are different people with different thoughts and you can't mindread through a computer screen

why are you townreading keyser based off the thought creature is scum pocketing keyser before any flips?

lol @tw bussing that hard D1 in this setup

I don't think I can scumcase a buddy as well as I cased creature, also fwiw I'm like insanely burned out on bussing so w/e take that how you will

Rel can probably back up from that one newbie game I would rather fight uphill than bus atm, also suss open 730 or whichever one was grey flag by the awesone rurururu

i agree

@Keyser, do you think Creature is perhaps pocketing/buddying you? Does his townread of you feel "genuine"?

well if he felt like he was pocketed wouldn't that make his reads different???

He’s probably pocketed me in the sense I empathasized with his frustration yesterday (his appeal to emotion, regardless of alignment) made me want to take a step back. When you’re in the same boat as someone you can’t just help but feel like brothers. If the shoe was on the other foot and I was L-1 i’m sure he would have

unvoted too!

hammered me probably

I was hoping he would expand on his t/read of me but I don’t think that’s his style.

But the thing why try pocket only me? I’m only one vote, who hasn’t got any serious credit or control right now, so it’s a wasted buddying attempt if anything. There are lots of more persuasive players out there willing to flip him today. Eragon wasn’t even directly buddied/pocketed.. he just jumped in there with a straight town read.

yep [/quote]

First thoughts when catching up:

Irrelephant seems to be really happy to town-read Voxel, which is kind of weirding me out.

My one thought without fully catching up is this seems like a towny volxen, unless he’s trying very very hard to improve his scumgame (no nuance there)

Improvement noticed too... would like to witness wider focus though.

is this you saying he's "improved scum" or that he's town?
It's theoretically possible this is his improved scumgame (and he's tryhard enough to get there) but it's a BIG jump from easy-to-lynch-d1 scum!volxen from WW

without nuance
haha to explain further he seems to really struggle as scum to come up with thought-out reasoning for his reads. His reads aren't perfect but the amount of thought that goes into them shows a lot about his alignment (I think he's almost certainly town here)

He’d have to be bullshiting hard for it to be a lie.

how does volx play as scum?

Still don't really understand volxen's scumread of labrat? Like it seemed like it came from "there has to be 1 scum in {tw, labrat}" and imo tw is scummier here

I find it off though that he’d use a non-personal way of talking to them here though.
I mean, if volx is really sooo townie to him, I think it would be more natural to treat him as town and just simply ask him about his reads instead of doing that from a distance. That’s used more often when you’re judging someone, which feels kinda weird here considering irre’s enthusiasm while TRing volx.

It doesn’t really give me a strong read on him, but it’s just sth I wanted to mention.

uhh im seeing a contradiction

you say "the happiness of the townread weirds me out" but also
you say "he'd have to be bullshitting hard to make this a lie" which means its a real read which is good right?

so its it wierd and overhappy or truthful and good?

sup

Eragonna kick some scum butt?

yes my bready friend.

I've played this set-up before , albeit from the opposite side, and it was extremely mind-game fun

Oof, that’s dumb, like, extremely dumb, but it’s giving me town vibes

I don’t think I’ve ever seen eragon meme so hard btw

few things i gotta settle with you
1. what's dumb?
5. i've never playe with you before(unless alt)
17. I meme hard alot, especially early.

The read on creat is kind of easy, but not really weird considering that eragon hasn’t read anything from the thread yet

612 I also want an explanation from lab

From how I understood it, people were SRing Creat here because he tends to freeze as scum (lurks while badly pretending to be doing anything?), also if I understood it right, he’s not good at interacting with the townies as scum and has way worse reads than when playing town.
I haven’t seen any game where he’d be scum yet, but that’s what I understood about his scum meta so far. From what I know, he isn’t anywhere close to helpful as town either, but most of the time is sort of readable? (or at least that’s what other people say)

In the early game I kind of refrained from reading him because of my bad experiences with his town meta, but I didn’t like his interactions with TW in the mid-game. (515 and most of the interactions earlier (you can read the page and the previous one and it should be ok))

uhh I meant more along the lines of "why is not lynching -Lynch target- game throwing"

--------------------------
In short, TW was SRing Creat since quite a while and started interacting with him to get sth out of him and Creat responded mostly by empty-posting and refusing to do stuff while explaining it as town motivated/normal for him.
It kind of felt like he was just getting salty that people were SRing him, when he’s been doing similar stuff in his bad town games and refused to contribute not because he wasn’t able to, but “just for the sake of proving his point“. (which comes more often form scum than town imo)

And 515 and 516 kind of did it for me. Like, I think it’s rather common knowledge that hard jesting for reaction tests is a really bad way to get reads. Noobs may do it sometimes, but it’s weird seeing it coming from someone who played for a few years
It felt like absolute bullshit to me

I mean, I do have bad experiences with reading creat and the stuff about his town meta sometimes being shitty were true, but even if that’s true, if he’s gonna be unreadable and if he’s claiming to be doing it on purpose, I do not have any reason to waste my time by keeping him alive in the game. Just no

k

His latest posts were better though

Creature (4) - Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, the worst, Keyser Söze, volxen

First, this is never all town, specially if I'm town.

All of them reaching to the same wrong conclusion simply never happens in mafia history.

That was kinda townie.

I don't think its that great of a conclusion, given the statistical approximation of at least one of them being scum simply by RNG

The fact that he takes his “scum-flip” into probability when talking about interaction reads is not sth I think often comes from stressed scum.

I can see this, although some semantics I noticed(using semantics to show its not strong and more just tinfoil) he used "if" as if he might not flip town even from his PoV?

Also I'm pretty sure scum are aware of the "oh scum will always townread town!creature", so likely they'd try to break it like this game.

waht.

like, it's pretty usual for scum to townread me because I will obvtown and they will look bad if I don't.

So they could push me as scum and when they turn to be wrong they can use the argument above.

And maaaybe that

I also kinda liked his “farting” read on volx, but meh

he kind of jumped up for me from an: "absolutely lynch" position to sth like: "yeah, ok.... go on..."

what did you like about the "Farting read"

im not doing any more big posts due to MY GODDAMN TESTS THAT I STILL NEED TO STUDY FOR

(good news: one got moved back to thursday)
(bad news: i still have 3 in the next 2 days)

Oof, and I thought I had it hard

this is what i feel needs to happen for heaven phase

Heaven 1: send the towniest person we can spare(basically mislynch bait)

Kind of agree, but don’t go overboard with it
everyone’s got different reads anyway, so honestly, any kind of townie-looking lynch except the super confident/helpful ones will be plenty good

FYI the study guide for my English test tomorrow is 23 pages long on google docs.

TWENTY.
THREE.
GOD.
DAMN.
PAGES.
FOR.
ONE.
EXAM.

They exist

You can be town.

I'm starting to wonder if I'm being wrong and Creature is actually willing to be bad town to fix his lopsided meta

Huh? I'm not being bad town.

you're certainly not being good town ergo this is a scumclaim

...

scum claim is quite a bit too strong here

P.Edit
About the heaven lynch, I think I’d be fine with volx after all
That’s not personally my strong SR, but if he really is scum (I'm kind of tempted to believe in the TRs on him, but meh), that’s a very valuable flip to get (even if it’s a heaven lynch imo)
I really doubt that scum would just remain idle if they got such a wonderful opportunity to get rid of one of them to heaven and only 2 people (as far as I remember) seemed to strongly push them being town

VOTE: eragon

Elaborate please (or quote the read cuz your posts are long and I might have missed it xd )

he didn't make a read lol xd

----------------------

I disagree with most of it, but I think volx’s read on eragon was good

I didn't even know that was a read 0.0
I thought that was a response to my case

----------------------

And sorry, that’s just a catchup, I got back like 2 hours ago, so I haven’t been able to do anything yet
Going to sleep rn, but I will 100% have time to work on my reads tomorrow
Sry for that

It's all good man. Sorry for getting snappy earlier.

I'm townreading LCP more than I'm townreading Korina, but I think Korina's contributions are particularly town indicative for him. Hold on I'll see if I can find some succinct ramblings in my iso (I've had wine )

My problem with Korina is that her playstyle here feels different than what I remember.

What game/s did you guys play together? What kinda differences are you vibing?

He's been pretty v/la for most of the phase too which is tricky

Only the game where I was IC.

Korina has like made it pretty clear she was town that game

while I can't tell it here

Huh weird.... I'm getting pretty similar energy (except like I kinda feel like he was tryna play more professional as Vex). Just like, lower postcount. What struck you as super towny from him in Stack the Deck that he's missing here?

I think he lacks energy

yeah.. beyond the v/la thing to you think he's actually vibed like low gamesolving energy and stuff? or just v/la?

Work on another slot? It's sitting in the back of my mind too, but kinda like his contributions so far have been good and his v/la is finite

it's not like tryna sort assembler or something, if we need Korina to spew content and he's still v/la he'll probably be able to sort out a time later I guess

@DrJ

Kor pls confirm
LCP do you guys discord or anything to keep in touch?

TW and Irrelephant - do you town read eachother as highly as eachother?

I have the feeling Relly townreads me more than I townread Relly but I'm.... comfortable.

this is probably true, which is why I'm fine sheeping his reads some
The fact that everyone is townreading tw, basically, gives me some paranoia feels (as does another secret reason I'm feeling paranoid) but I still think he's probably right that he's outside his scum range (~2/3 of my towngames end up staying within my scum range, so I don't blame him for not feeling the same)

I find it off though that he’d use a non-personal way of talking to them here though.

I think this is more of a tonal thing than anything AI. When I'm talking to someone who's online, I usually talk to them. When I'm talking to someone who hasn't been around in awhile, I'm more likely to talk about them

VOTE: keyser

I don’t remember you saying much about keyser, can you link me to your read on him (if you wrote one)?

ISO me and ctrl+F Keyser. It was a progression from feeling like tw/keyser interactions felt not-tvt -> coming around to a townread on tw -> voting keyser. Also, my vote does not always reside on my strongest scumread. It usually ends the day on my strongest scumread (or the compromise lynch), but I use my vote in lots of ways for sorting.
You seem more impersonal/rigid/not sure what the word is in your recent posts... trying to decide if that's AI

They exist

okay maybe I just can't read your tone

P.Edit
About the heaven lynch, I think I’d be fine with volx after all
That’s not personally my strong TR, but if he really is scum (I'm kind of tempted to believe in the TRs on him, but meh), that’s a very valuable flip to get (even if it’s a heaven lynch imo)
I really doubt that scum would just remain idle if they got such a wonderful opportunity to get rid of one of them to heaven and only 2 people (as far as I remember) seemed to strongly push them being town

VOTE: eragon

Elaborate please (or quote the read cuz your posts are long and I might have missed it xd )

----------------------

I disagree with most of it, but I think volx’s read on eragon was good

----------------------

And sorry, that’s just a catchup, I got back like 2 hours ago, so I haven’t been able to do anything yet
Going to sleep rn, but I will 100% have time to work on my reads tomorrow
Sry for that

1 - this comment about sending volxen to heaven even if scum is pinging me. Do you personally think he'll flip scum? Do you think using heaven lynches to sort is a good strategy in this setup?
2 - I haven not yet laid out a case on eragon, because I wanted to see his reaction first. But the short version is that it came from his read on creature - it feels like he's too sure creature is town, which had me paranoid that eragon was TMI-ing bad!town!creature. I also don't think eragon is outside his scum meta so far, and though I understand his being busy, I feel like scum give excuses for being busy more often than town (who will show up when they show up, whatever)
Kinda dependent on TReading creature which idk if I do but I wanted to see what might happen

836
-I was telling Keyser that he does indeed know that sheeping players I think are town is town indicative for me
-I asked you to vote Keyser to test a partner theory, but I got bored and moved on before it went anywhere
-See above for my vote on you
-Don't love you shading volxen by saying I'm townreading him too strongly without giving any reason why

837
-I asked Keyser if he is scum as a joke
-Keyser's comment about creature that you're calling OTT is obviously meant to be funny?
-trying to decide if *lack of awareness of humorous intent* is AI for eragon (I remember it happening a couple times in our last game, too) - maybe sometime I'll have the time to meta research this

DrJ what is your read on eragon?
eragon what is your read on keyser?
keyser what is your read on DrJ?

creature do you have any solid reads yet

creature do you have any solid reads yet

the worst town

that's about it

I've been reconsidering my other reads lately

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde re-read

Gonna try pick out only meaningful items that still bear a ring of truth to me.


(Part 1 of 2?)

"I would see it more as him trying to pocket us"

Yup, some good ol' town paranoia here from Dr J.

"This sounds like you are trying to get out of RVS / shitpost stage. That would give me a slight town inclination on you."

Rings slightly LAMISt-y. Easy town points given out IMO. Scum also have motivation to appear serious too during RVS to appear town...

My head's going round in circles with post #92 regarding their thoughts on Carmen and LabRat. Dr J then asks half a dozen of semi-to-low game solving questions.

"Derp-clears are easy to fake, and shouldn't be used as the basis for a TR IMO."

Dr J is pretty firm with their stance here... but maybe too game theory related to get me excited about.

"I'm town-soulreading his activity, however, I'm scum-reading his content."

Ok, this may eloquently explain Dr J's infatuation with LabRat then. I was intrigued by the associations between these two slots during RVS too.

"because I'm seeing it as you're pretty sure that Carmen is actually scum"

Dr J suspected a Carmen-Labrat scum team. Noted. Overlooked this post (probs coz I couldn't get my head around post #92.)

"HOLD ON, WAIT A FUCKING MOMENT: Why the fuck is Irrel allowed to make a joke about them being scum, and have it be dismissed as RVS, yet Carmen can do the same exact thing, during RVS, and yet gets called out for being scummy on it?"

Hmmm.. calling out LabRat for contradicting himself/being hypocritical is slightly LAMIST-y

Dr J's suspicions is quite intense here. Wondering how they unvote here.

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde re-read

(Part 2 of 2)

"How would Keyser know that unless he's scum?"

It appears Dr J takes things literally... or misses the tone of posts. Is this a cute thing to town read...? @Irrelephant11, or NAI?

"I could see this as scum trying to prolong RVS, try and appear to be there while not contributing, etc."

More LAMIST-y (?) but from LCL this time.

"Have you a case behind this? Or just waiting for the sake of it?!"
This is a weird over-reaction (?)

I feel like scum tends to be more cautious with their votes. I definitely am like that a lot. So this feels scummy.

VOTE: Keyser

N.b. if Korina voted anyone by page 9 I will revote not to disturb his scumhunting

Did LCL need to put that "N.b." after his vote to cover his ass'? (which I personally hated). His momentum needed to stay with LabRat IMO. He does unvote later...

"I'd probably call it an attempt to buddy me, given I know him from back then, and am possibly likely to respond by TRing him."

This self reflection looks good on him.

"Tw is probably town based on the lack of any wagon"

Half the playerlist weren't even actively posting - I don't think we can draw that clear RVS conclusion here.

"he kind of feels like he is enthusiastic"

I would sheep that sentiment about TW though.

"I still am a little concerned at him seemingly trying to buddy me,"

That was bugging me, so I'm glad it bugged Dr J too.

Consolidated case (post #398) on LabRat - better now than I first first.

"Come join me on him. That means scum has to get their entire team into heaven making it much more difficult for them to win"

"It will flip scum, I'm 99% sure"

Some nice confidence shown here on their new zealous scum read of Creature

"good reply, will read in detail later tonight, but I'll bump you farther down the scum list"

"All that being said I definitely feel much less like you are scum. Your reaction here to my post feels very town"

@Dr J , PLease can we see the detail and reasons for this, the whys and hows.

Gonna have to put together some conclusions now...

Want to talk about my concerns.

If you feel me..I mean FILL me with enough confidence and peace of mind over these 2 items, I’d be happy to send Dr J to heaven



What’s the possibility of:

1 DrJ imitating their LAMIST-y output to pad out their active questioning? (Scum motivation? To be town read via meta)

2 is it coincidence or scum pt agenda, that their two main passionate pushes (LabRat and Creature) have reflected the in-game focus too? Notice the two campaigns /scum reads never overlapped. The timing... the support... the tunnel vision...

okay yes, let's talk, will focus on this for a few minutes

LAMIST as a self-meta-replicating strategy is possible but maybe unlikely, given I seemed to surprise Korina by describing their play that way? I'll concede that it's probably closer to NAI/townlean than *strongly* town indicative, given I'm not that familiar with scum!Korina or the other head

I'd have to do a deeper dive to remember if DrJ's pushes led or followed the crowd on labrat - do you know offhand from re-reading? Definitely some element of sheeping tw on Creature, I think

Also, where the hell is Creature? I just realized that he's in the game trying to see who we haven't heard from.
If Creature keeps up this activity, I think its very safe to assume that he is scum.

-Kor

actually seems like DrJ was "onto" creature in the first five pages

What if the team is {Lab, Creature, TW}?

-Kor (to both)

actually yeah I'm not seeing what you're seeing re:tunnel vision

What about DrJ's play feels tunnel vision-y?

I did assign them some homework to do though.

wait how did you get to strong townlean?
I'm not sure I see anything other than mild townlean in your catchup

wait how did you get to strong townlean?
I'm not sure I see anything other than mild townlean in your catchup

They were already a town lean (but I felt dirty)

After my re-read and our chat...

Their playstyle is apparently nothing outside their town meta... it sounds like I’m merely tinfoiling that they’ve pocketed me via meta-replication.

I’m not finding their timing/choice/progression on LabRat/Creature as suspicious as I first was... maybe they’re just slashing at their scum read with unnatural conviction in their own unique way, while the real scum swoop in after (?).



It would be good to hear your view of them after your re-read.

Are they currently higher or lower than town lean?

I decided to pick through Keyser's case:

Bolded things I agree with, underlined disagreements

Spoiler: my formatting here conflicts with keyser's so good luck reading it

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde re-read

Gonna try pick out only meaningful items that still bear a ring of truth to me.


(Part 1 of 2?)

"I would see it more as him trying to pocket us"

Yup, some good ol' town paranoia here from Dr J.

"This sounds like you are trying to get out of RVS / shitpost stage. That would give me a slight town inclination on you."

Rings slightly LAMISt-y.

Easy town points given out IMO. Scum also have motivation to appear serious too during RVS to appear town...

My head's going round in circles with post #92 regarding their thoughts on Carmen and LabRat. Dr J then asks half a dozen of semi-to-low game solving questions.

"Derp-clears are easy to fake, and shouldn't be used as the basis for a TR IMO."

Dr J is pretty firm with their stance here... but maybe too game theory related to get me excited about.

"I'm town-soulreading his activity, however, I'm scum-reading his content."

Ok, this may eloquently explain Dr J's infatuation with LabRat then. I was intrigued by the associations between these two slots during RVS too.

"because I'm seeing it as you're pretty sure that Carmen is actually scum"

Dr J suspected a Carmen-Labrat scum team.

Noted. Overlooked this post (probs coz I couldn't get my head around post #92.)

"HOLD ON, WAIT A FUCKING MOMENT: Why the fuck is Irrel allowed to make a joke about them being scum, and have it be dismissed as RVS, yet Carmen can do the same exact thing, during RVS, and yet gets called out for being scummy on it?"

Hmmm.. calling out LabRat for contradicting himself/being hypocritical is slightly LAMIST-y

Dr J's suspicions is quite intense here. Wondering how they unvote here.

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde re-read

(Part 2 of 2)

"How would Keyser know that unless he's scum?"

It appears Dr J takes things literally... or misses the tone of posts. Is this a cute thing to town read...? @Irrelephant11, or

NAI?

"I could see this as scum trying to prolong RVS, try and appear to be there while not contributing, etc."

More LAMIST-y (?) but from LCL this time.

"Have you a case behind this? Or just waiting for the sake of it?!"

This is a weird over-reaction (?)

I feel like scum tends to be more cautious with their votes. I definitely am like that a lot. So this feels scummy.

VOTE: Keyser

N.b. if Korina voted anyone by page 9 I will revote not to disturb his scumhunting

Did LCL need to put that "N.b." after his vote to cover his ass'? (which I personally hated). His momentum needed to stay with LabRat IMO. He does unvote later...

"I'd probably call it an attempt to buddy me, given I know him from back then, and am possibly likely to respond by TRing him."

This self reflection looks good on him.

"Tw is probably town based on the lack of any wagon"

Half the playerlist weren't even actively posting - I don't think we can draw that clear RVS conclusion here.

"he kind of feels like he is enthusiastic"

I would sheep that sentiment about TW though.

"I still am a little concerned at him seemingly trying to buddy me,"

That was bugging me, so I'm glad it bugged Dr J too.

Consolidated case (post #398) on LabRat - better now than I first first.

"Come join me on him. That means scum has to get their entire team into heaven making it much more difficult for them to win"

"It will flip scum, I'm 99% sure"

Some nice confidence shown here on their new zealous scum read of Creature

"good reply, will read in detail later tonight, but I'll bump you farther down the scum list"

"All that being said I definitely feel much less like you are scum. Your reaction here to my post feels very town"

@Dr J , PLease can we see the detail and reasons for this, the whys and hows.

Gonna have to put together some conclusions now...

I think I come out with a stronger townlean again, actually. DrJ's paranoia seems real (feels uninformed, truly sorting) and the LAMIST style fits town meta w/o being cognizant that that is their town meta
I tried to glance at LCPL's meta for anything LAMIST-y but he only has scum games, so that doesn't help. still, I feel like newbie's look lamist-y more often anyway (and I don't really agree he's as lamist as korina anyway)
Now the question is: would Keyser make this towncase on a townie as scum? I think most of my scumread of Keyser came from lack of nuance/mutual scumread with at first/buddying vibes
If Keyser is scum here he feels confident that buddying with the right people will save his team, or he's scum with DrJ...

Maybe it's just eragon/creature/lefty

Mostly for coming out of reading DrJ with a strong townread
and wanting him to be town because I like him

Yeah I mean I don't love how long it took him to arrive here
if you had to nail three scum to the wall who are they

POW creature
POW...probably Eragon I guess, sigh.. his read on Creature and awkward responses to it just don't mesh but also it felt like a town case
POW Keyser probably

If I'm being finessed it's by {you, Keyser} imo

[/quote]

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

me, LabRat and Creature

Time to turn this a townblock?

Tempted.

Hi.

[snip]

P.Edit
About the heaven lynch, I think I’d be fine with volx after all
That’s not personally my strong TR, but if he really is scum (I'm kind of tempted to believe in the TRs on him, but meh), that’s a very valuable flip to get (even if it’s a heaven lynch imo)
I really doubt that scum would just remain idle if they got such a wonderful opportunity to get rid of one of them to heaven and only 2 people (as far as I remember) seemed to strongly push them being town

VOTE: eragon

Elaborate please (or quote the read cuz your posts are long and I might have missed it xd )

----------------------

I disagree with most of it, but I think volx’s read on eragon was good

----------------------

And sorry, that’s just a catchup, I got back like 2 hours ago, so I haven’t been able to do anything yet
Going to sleep rn, but I will 100% have time to work on my reads tomorrow
Sry for that

1 - this comment about sending volxen to heaven even if scum is pinging me. Do you personally think he'll flip scum? Do you think using heaven lynches to sort is a good strategy in this setup?
2 - I haven not yet laid out a case on eragon, because I wanted to see his reaction first. But the short version is that it came from his read on creature - it feels like he's too sure creature is town, which had me paranoid that eragon was TMI-ing bad!town!creature. I also don't think eragon is outside his scum meta so far, and though I understand his being busy, I feel like scum give excuses for being busy more often than town (who will show up when they show up, whatever)

how am i in any way acting as if im sure creature is town????? during my case i was going back and forth, some scummy things but more towny things IMO, and i came to the conclusion creature is town, but i also acknowledged multiple times im wrong and have responded fairly to everyone(Volxen) who has responded to my case, as well as agreeing that there were a couple posts that seeing a different opinion of changed my opinion. I really can't see why everyone thinks i have such a strong townread on creature, because i really don't think it came offr that way

i agree im not outside of scum meta, but

Spoiler: self-meta

if i were scum i wouldn't be as active as i really am now and would more ride the slank of my business instead of going to this in any free time, which leads to my next point...

you say im using "business" as an excuse to not do anything and its something more liekly for scum to do? Have you seen me NOT putting in effort? do you think im using the "excuse" as you put it for me to not post content, am i taking advantage of my life to effect this game? NO! I told ya'll that im busy, yes, but has that stopped me from putting forward my best effort atm? Its more of a reason to explain why i won't be able to be on like 24/7 and instant-respond, resorting to catchups such as this, as well as me just having a place to rant about my horrors of life.

Kinda dependent on TReading creature which idk if I do but I wanted to see what might happen

my read... is dependant on if YOU... townread creature?????

836
-I was telling Keyser that he does indeed know that sheeping players I think are town is town indicative for me
-I asked you to vote Keyser to test a partner theory, but I got bored and moved on before it went anywhere
-See above for my vote on you
-Don't love you shading volxen by saying I'm townreading him too strongly without giving any reason why

i don't feel im shading volxen at all, i said i AGREE with your points that he is town. I just disagree that he should be such strongly considered town simply based on a "nuanced" meta. if anything it looks worse for you than volxen. And i did give reasons, exactly what i stated here. "IT shouldn't be such a strong read yet based off of 14 posts and shit becuase i find the beginning of the game is where people put forward the best effort so its harder to tell metas early game unless there is a crazy distinctive one.

837
-I asked Keyser if he is scum as a joke
-Keyser's comment about creature that you're calling OTT is obviously meant to be funny?

is it a joke? i didnt even realize that i mean, i understand it was told in a humourous way, but i thought it was a serious thought process.

-trying to decide if *lack of awareness of humorous intent* is AI for eragon (I remember it happening a couple times in our last game, too) - maybe sometime I'll have the time to meta research this

I miss sarcasm/irony a lot but i also really like jokes

UNVOTE:

keyser what is your read on DrJ?

Think it was: 'town lean, but it makes me feel dirty'


I really wanted to look at Lefty today :/ TW said he was town but I did not feel it for the short time he was with us.

May look at Dr J and Eragon instead and figure out a PoE. Cos right now it kinda feels like I'm onboard the Orient Express.

i agree with that about doc j :3

1 - this comment about sending volxen to heaven even if scum is pinging me. Do you personally think he'll flip scum?

tbh, if Volxen did flip scum in heaven I would look at you (you are a type of scum-player to white-knight his scum teammates to high heaven and not bus)

chaining lynches together??
what he accused me of in WW

Want to talk about my concerns.

If you feel me..I mean FILL me with enough confidence and peace of mind over these 2 items, I’d be happy to send Dr J to heaven



What’s the possibility of:

1 DrJ imitating their LAMIST-y output to pad out their active questioning? (Scum motivation? To be town read via meta)

2 is it coincidence or scum pt agenda, that their two main passionate pushes (LabRat and Creature) have reflected the in-game focus too? Notice the two campaigns /scum reads never overlapped. The timing... the support... the tunnel vision...

i personally feel LAMIST-y things are scummy just in general, as i feel town have no need to post it.
that said sometimes it happens that people do post things they feel are fine but other people see as LAMIST

so i don't think anything LAMIST deserves a townread, but if its something they do and/or the rest of their posts are fine its not a scum-tell either

okay yes, let's talk, will focus on this for a few minutes

LAMIST as a self-meta-replicating strategy is possible but maybe unlikely, given I seemed to surprise Korina by describing their play that way? I'll concede that it's probably closer to NAI/townlean than *strongly* town indicative, given I'm not that familiar with scum!Korina or the other head

I'd have to do a deeper dive to remember if DrJ's pushes led or followed the crowd on labrat - do you know offhand from re-reading? Definitely some element of sheeping tw on Creature, I think

as above, i disagree in . LAMIST ever being towny

Strong town lean.
Destined for heaven.

this about Doc. J correct?
even though you thought they were a bit LAMIST-y

side note:

Spoiler:

i forget if keyser was one of the people saying i had too easy of a townread on creature, but if so then he's p.much doing the same thing with a much stronger read on Doc. J. IF he wasn't one of those people ignore this spoiler.

Btw Irrelephant, you have too many town reads right now

In a game with an especially high number of scum this is suprising too

how many townreads/scumreads do you have?

i mean, "too many townreads" what does that mean?
there are 6 town and 3 scum
take out yourself and you have 5/3
then is too many townreads 5?
or is it 4?
just explain whyt you think they have "Too many"

mmkay great just wanted something committal that I wouldn't have to feel paranoid was just a copy of what I said

also I agree I have too many townreads
I said the same like 3 pages ago lol
tbf I'm not sure I townread you, you're just fun to interact with
I would actually *like* for the scumteam to be you/creature/eragon but that feels lazy and somewhat unlikely
who do you think I should scumread that I don't right now

and then i realize irrel agrees
^_^

wait how did you get to strong townlean?
I'm not sure I see anything other than mild townlean in your catchup

They were already a town lean (but I felt dirty)

After my re-read and our chat...

Their playstyle is apparently nothing outside their town meta... it sounds like I’m merely tinfoiling that they’ve pocketed me via meta-replication.

I’m not finding their timing/choice/progression on LabRat/Creature as suspicious as I first was... maybe they’re just slashing at their scum read with unnatural conviction in their own unique way, while the real scum swoop in after (?).



It would be good to hear your view of them after your re-read.

Are they currently higher or lower than town lean?

so kinda just a completely flipped read from what you thought?

and to me this doesn't add up to strong town.

"they are pretty much replicating their town meta"
"but i also thought of the possiblity they could be repliciating that as scum and pocketing me"
"nah nvm"

"i first thought this was scummy but not anymore"
"maybe they're just really strongly pushing their SR with unnatural conviction in their unique way"
"real scum are actually probably looking to swoop in after"

these to me feel as if you are REALLY trying your hardest to make them look town, even saying "maybe they are being weird(basically unnatural) in their unique(which also means not normal) way. these don't add up to a strong townread

No clue on Carmen's preference

I think I'm right about AT townlean for DrJ. I had them higher before you pointed out that LAMIST-as-town-meta doesn't mean they have to be town just because they're LAMIST. I haven't had the time to read their ISO like I wanted, too much going on at work today

do you townread creature/labrat, keyser?

AT?

side sarcasm note

Spoiler: spaz

AHHH YOU MADE AN EXCUSE YOU SAID YOU HAVE WORK YOU"RE SO SCUM AHHH YOU SAID YOU ARE BUSY THATS LIEKLY TO COME FROM SCUM THJAN TOWNA

you can ignore this its just me spazzing

I do.

But you know me... winds can change


LabRat would be a good full re-read. To determine: what have they actively discovered this game?

Creature I like, but I wouldn’t be surprised whatever way they flip (this is not me saying they are null).

by "What have the actively discovered this game" do you mean what they've done unique, like, "who've rat pushed?" "what are his reads" etc...?

Also, where the hell is Creature? I just realized that he's in the game trying to see who we haven't heard from.
If Creature keeps up this activity, I think its very safe to assume that he is scum.

-Kor

Did you know?

Lions and tigers can crossbreed to create a species known as Ligers..

Votecount 1.03

the worst (3) - LabRat01, Keyser Soze, Irrelephant

Keyser Söze (2) - Lefty, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
Carmen (1) - LabRat01,
Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde (1) - Carmen
LabRat01 (1) - the worst
Not Voting - Creature, volxen,

Time till end of hell phase 1: (expired on 2018-11-15 17:00:00)

I'm pretty sure there is at least one scum among [TW, Rat, Keyser, and Rel]. I don't think it's that likely that TW, as town, would get up to L-2 so quickly on the second day of day one with no scum involvement.

I don't think TW and Rat are scum together, with them cross voting each other, and with TW's detailed casing of Rat. It seems really unnecessary for them to try to mutually distance themselves and start wagons against each other this early on day one if they are scumbuddies.

I do wish TW would case Keyser to the same degree that he has cased Rat, but he seems to want to hold back on this for some reason.

Out of [TW, Rat], Rat definitely has far more scum equity in my opinion. TW's casing of Rat felt genuine, whereas Rat's interactions with others came off as scummy to me. For example:

wanna check it for me?

Nah, it's not there.

VOTE: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

aww, that's a shame VOTE: carmen
I'm p sure some form of it should be there though, cuz the bracket thingy is written in my RC
wanna check it again? or are you lying in order for someone to notice this "contradiction" and derp you as town?

ugh, I was talking about the town RC if it wasn't obvious

I was re-reading the thread and noticed that my post could be understood as a disgusting joke
that vote was half-serious, it was not pure RvS, so read it as so

and c'mon, someone write sth
it's boring being here alone

I don't think Rat really had a good reason for "seriously" voting Carmen here, and she did say that the vote was "half-serious".

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way

OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.

Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

Why did Rat make such a big deal about this? All TW did was ask Lefty what he thought of Keyser's entrance -- I don't see how that's really LAMIST, which is what Rat seems to be implying here. Yes everyone should be sorting players and coming up with their own reads, but there is nothing wrong with asking player X what they think about player Y, as long as you are still sorting everyone else in addition to that. Rat seems to be suggesting that TW want's other people to sort Keyser for him so he doesn't have to do the work of sorting Keyser himself, which I don't think is accurate at all. She is also suggesting here that TW's motivation in asking the question was to appear LAMIST, as opposed to him actually wanting to know what Lefty thought of Keyser's entrance.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.

Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

Again, here Rat is criticizing someone for asking a question regarding Keyser. I don't think her criticism of Lefty was really warranted here -- he asks a question about Keyser, and she insinuates that his reason for asking the question was to appear like he was doing something, as opposed to it being a question he genuinely wanted answered. In other words, she is again suggesting that the motivation behind the question was to purposefully appear LAMIST, as opposed to it just being a question that Lefty wanted answered. It's just odd that on two different occasions, two different people ask a question about Keyser, and Rat attacks (unreasonably IMO) both TW and Lefty for asking their respective questions about Keyser. I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town.

VOTE: LabRat01

here is another post where you call creature out simply b/c he hasn't posted but forgot volxen again

What if the team is {Lab, Creature, TW}?

-Kor (to both)

i get that activity is the way to read creature, but its hard to read someone on activity when they dont post in the game at all?

so i just feel its REALLY weird that you called out creature and think he's scum, but you didn't even give a candle to volxen

I decided to spoil it beacause im nice and it hurt my eyes

Spoiler:

actually
VOTE: Creature

lynch this today for 11/10 guaranteed scumflip
send Dr. J to heaven tomorrow

if Lab/Keyser are town they can prove it

Why do you think Creature is scum, and why is he a better lynch than Rat?

asking "why is he a better lynch" is simply busywork that is always opinionated depending on reads.

@volxen putting associations, VCA and scum partner theories aside, are you t/reading the worst independently?

I don't feel comfortable giving TW a townread yet, no. I do think he made a good case against Rat, especially in post 297, and I do find Rat to have the most scum equity at the moment, but I'm not ready to write off TW as town yet either.

Where I am currently at is I find Dr. J to be the most towny player and Rat to be the most scummy player. I'm still kind of unsure on everyone else.

@Keyser, I am starting to get concerned that if Rat is scum, you could be one of her partners. As I pointed out earlier, it was just odd how quick she was to attack two different people for asking, in my opinion, completely legitimate questions about your slot. If she is scum it's possible that she is simply buddying/defending town!Keyser, but the way she wanted to shut down both questions about Keyser's slot could be indicative of SvS interactions. Keyser, if Rat is scum, why is TW more likely to be one of her partners than you?

But in any case, do you really think TW would gambit as scum and try to get his one of his scumbuddies sent to hell on day one? I would consider that quite a risky gambit because if he does that, then the only way he could win as scum is if both he and his remaining scumbuddy get sent to Heaven. So unless he's convinced that both he and his other scumbuddy could get a lot of towncredit for busing Rat, it seems like quite a risky play to open on day one by busing one of his partners in a game mode that, in my opinion, heavily discourages busing.

i have pretty good vibes about this post.
the fact they are going back and forth on reasons that TW is town but maybe should'nt be written off yet strikes me as truly trying to solve the slot, as in, not just insta-towning the slot,
the stuff about keyser too, "its possible that this is ____, BUT also it could be [opposite], but THIS [proves the first point].
the question is NAI

also the stuff about TW is really true as well, "do you think TW would gambit this" "[explains why it would probably be a bad choice] [gives reasoning it might not be a bad choice] [comes back with conclusion]"
feels like a towny thought process from all angles instead of tunneling a single point.

You think scum-labrat is chainsaw defending scum-me on PAGE ONE against TWO PLAYERS?

I don't think it's too far-fetched that scum!Rat would chainsaw defend one of her scumbuddies against two players. And her two posts where she attacked both TW and Lefty for asking a question about your slot were on pages three and four, not on page one:

boom gottem :^)
serious note: i do see this, and although im not used to (normally) scum hard-defending other scum, i've heard people do it often here? but another note is Scum!rat chainsawing town!Keyser for towncred and/or bad associations with keyser,

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way
OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.
Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

This was at the bottom of page three.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.
Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

And this was as the top of page four.

And both posts were written within seven minutes of each other, which makes it even more odd.

the stuff about seven minutes is ???

first off, wouldn't that be expected his posts are near each other???
plus saying that its odd is borderline angleshooting and you shouldn't use that ever.

Out of [TW, Rat], Rat definitely has far more scum equity in my opinion. TW's casing of Rat felt genuine, whereas Rat's interactions with others came off as scummy to me. For example:
[quote="In post 307, volxen]

wanna check it for me?

Nah, it's not there.

VOTE: Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde

aww, that's a shame VOTE: carmen
I'm p sure some form of it should be there though, cuz the bracket thingy is written in my RC
wanna check it again? or are you lying in order for someone to notice this "contradiction" and derp you as town?

ugh, I was talking about the town RC if it wasn't obvious

I was re-reading the thread and noticed that my post could be understood as a disgusting joke
that vote was half-serious, it was not pure RvS, so read it as so

and c'mon, someone write sth
it's boring being here alone

I don't think Rat really had a good reason for "seriously" voting Carmen here, and she did say that the vote was "half-serious".

First off, volx seems to have read the thread till duck’s posts, so he should have also been aware of the whole conversation between me and korina. I don’t feel like going all over it again and this argument is

exactly

the same one I’ve been arguing with Korina about.

If he does fully understand why I pushed Carmen, I find it off that he’d find it important enough to mention here.
and if he disagreed to my answers to Korina’s pushes, he should have quoted those posts, not this one.

Him not doing that and including the exact same reasoning kinda feels like he made the argument just “to make the read look more townie/impressive” and doesn’t actually care to think about it seriously

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way

OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.

Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

Why did Rat make such a big deal about this? All TW did was ask Lefty what he thought of Keyser's entrance -- I don't see how that's really LAMIST, which is what Rat seems to be implying here.
Yes everyone should be sorting players and coming up with their own reads, but there is nothing wrong with asking player X what they think about player Y, as long as you are still sorting everyone else in addition to that.
Rat seems to be suggesting that TW wants other people to sort Keyser for him so he doesn't have to do the work of sorting Keyser himself, which I don't think is accurate at all.
She is also suggesting here that TW's motivation in asking the question was to appear LAMIST, as opposed to him actually wanting to know what Lefty thought of Keyser's entrance.

This one is actually fair, except the “why did rat make such a big deal of this?” part.
This is nearly the same thing as in the last part of the quote, but it’s more visible in the quote there, so just read it there, but it feels kinda fake to me that a player who’s capable of writing an elaborate analysis like this one would base his reads on reasons that are just so obviously wrong.

And the way he defended TW was funny imo. Prob too daring to be SvS, but I don’t think I can say anything more about that

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.

Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

Again, here Rat is criticizing someone for asking a question regarding Keyser. I don't think her criticism of Lefty was really warranted here -- he asks a question about Keyser, and she insinuates that his reason for asking the question was to appear like he was doing something, as opposed to it being a question he genuinely wanted answered. In other words, she is again suggesting that the motivation behind the question was to purposefully appear LAMIST, as opposed to it just being a question that Lefty wanted answered.
It's just odd that on two different occasions, two different people ask a question about Keyser, and Rat attacks (unreasonably IMO) both TW and Lefty for asking their respective questions about Keyser.

Yes, I think Lefty’s post was lamist. I don’t think it’s necessarily scum indicative though, because awkwardness and not knowing what to write early in the game is not really scummy. Both town and scum can feel that way and even though his question/post wasn’t sincere imo, both alignments could have had their reasons for doing it.
The read was kind of a push, but it was also a suggestion to do sth else, because even if they’re town, their motivation isn’t difficult to notice and it’s gonna get them lynched if they keep doing that for a long time.

I would think town!Rat would understand that this game isn't just about everyone forming their own reads in isolation and then presenting their readslist to the rest of the group, but it's largely a game that involves interacting with everyone else to understand their motivations, which includes asking players questions such as, "what did you think about X from player Y?" The fact that Rat's initial reaction to both questions about Keyser was to immediately label them as attempts to be LAMIST rather than as genuine questions that were asked to gather information to help gamesolve, seems much more likely to come from scum than town.

VOTE: LabRat01

Here he pushes me for pushing others instead of asking for their motivations, which I find funny coming from someone with such a high game-count.
Even regardless of how many games he played, I find it hard to believe that a player who’s capable of writing such an elaborate analysis of my posts would be unaware that “pushing people” “allows you to read them better” and progresses the game, which is necessary at any point of the game.
Like, c’mon, he did play a lot of games on the site so he should have realized that if people ask questions, they’re most likely gonna get calm, composed answers, which aren’t really gonna help you do anything. Of course some people might just not like pushing others without a reason, but it doesn’t mean others can’t do that and everyone who pushes people early is scum.

Like, I really don’t want to believe that he’s being serious here. Him pushing me for that feels like he was just forcing himself to find a looong, non-sheepy reason for me being scum, without actually caring if it actually makes sense or not.
This post is long and I’ll give him credit for saying that the reasons behind my pushes were bad (even though they weren't), but the main part of it is just terribly empty.

And I don’t like how he disappeared right after writing that. Except the short VCA reasoning and TR on duck, he hasn’t done anything to progress the game, not even asking questions which he was pushing me for.
That’s just incredibly lazy

P.Edit…
Which just changed, so ignore that part.

If you are town, you are really misunderstanding why I am scumreading you -- or you are deliberately trying to misrepresent me if you are scum. I am not against aggressively pressuring and pushing people. I do it myself all the time, and I have even put someone at L-1 on page one of a newbie game as town (see: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=77453) precisely because I wanted to pressure that person. The last thing I am against is pressuring people to see how they react.

No, my problem is that you tried to

shut down/discourage

legitimate questions from both TW and Lefty, both of which were questions about Keyser's slot. In your post you seem to be setting up this false dichotomy where a choice has to be made between questioning someone vs pressuring someone. Why does it have to be either or? You can certainly ask people legitimate questions while simultaneously pressuring them. You want to push TW and Lefty to see how they react? Fine, but you shouldn't be trying to shut down and discourage the legitimate questions they asked about Keyser's slot.

THAT

is what I have a problem with -- you could have pressured Lefty and TW without trying to shutdown their questions about Keyser.

The first one you quoted didn't shut it down, it pushed them for the questioning or whatever happened. the second one you quoted "no, dont do that" which yes, shuts its down, but not extremely forcefully IMO, but i do see where you are getting at(and you used false dichotomy which im fine with giving you a /s townread for :3)

I'm struggling to see the town motivation in trying to shutdown both of their respective questions about Keyser. I mean, if TW and Lefty are both town, think about it from their perspective. If they are both town, and they find one another to be townie, doesn't it make sense for them to talk to one another about Keyser, especially if they are both trying to get an accurate read on Keyser? I mean this is a team game after all, so it makes sense to discuss your reads and other slots with people you find to be towny. So they ask legitimate questions of each other about Keyser's slot, and then you come along and within seven minutes, write two back-to-back posts where you basically call both of them LAMIST, and tell both of them that they are wasting time by asking each other questions about Keyser's slot. But why call it a waste of time -- why assume the questions they were asking each other wouldn't help both of them get a better read on Keyser? Because if getting answers to their questions would help them to better sort Keyser, then it would be a pretty good usage of time, no?

yada yada yada "theres no town motivation in stopping their talking, and you shutting their legit questions down is wolfy" done.

and again, STOP WITH THE ANGLESHOOTING OF "7 MINUTES APART"
(not that it even affects anything because IT MAKES SENSE THE POSTS WOULD BE BY EACH OTHER BECAUSE THATS WHEN HE'S POSTING)
you're make good reads this game volxen, i like that, but when you start grasping for straws like that it just annoys the fuck out of me.

Again the problem isn't that you were aggressive towards TW and Lefty, it's that you tried to "redirect" them away from talking about Keyser and questioning each other about Keyser, when I don't believe you had a legitimate reason for doing so. So yes, for now I am quite skeptical of your motivations.

VOTE: LabRat01

this tunnel is getting a bit unsatisying
we get that you scumread labrat strongly
we really do.
( i quoted the vote here because it was the easiest to quote. its not neccesarily what im referring to in this)

You think scum-labrat is chainsaw defending scum-me on PAGE ONE against TWO PLAYERS?

why is this so ridiculous...?
the reason chainsawing is a scumtell is that inexperienced scum players tend to do it unintentionally

I was just being OMGUS’y against you and Volxen it seems......... unwilling to accept being scum read unjustly.

[In truth though, in that scenario, ‘scum-LabRat’ was using me as a springboard to attack ‘townies’ for questioning me (who she knows is town).]

Obviously, I’m terribly wrong about everyone.

Let’s kill LabRat then “town”.

VOTE: LabRat

@TW, what do you think about this? Keyser is essentially saying that if Rat is scum, she is buddying/defending him in a similar manner to how I buddied/defended Keyser as scum in Watcher Wanted (link for anyone interested to that game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77119). As you, Irrelephant, and Keyser will all recall, as scum in that game most of my ISO revolved around Keyser, and I chainsaw defended him by attacking people who attacked him (e.g., 2.781/Huntress). To quote Keyser, my strategy as scum in that game was to use Keyser as a springboard to attack and scumpaint any townies who attacked him. Keyser is claiming that may be happening again in this game, except this time it is Rat who is buddying/defending him.

Do you think that is likely to be going on here -- do you think town!Keyser is being buddied/defended by scum!Rat? Does Rat's treatment of Keyser's slot seem similar to how I treated Keyser in Watcher Wanted, where Keyser was town and I was scum? Or do you think the interactions between Rat and Keyser are more likely SvS?

the question to TW is good. the post is well reasoned.
so whats YOUR thought about what you just posted.
what do YOU think.
similar to what someone said before,
"dont let TW make your reads for you, make your own"
the questions at the end are good and again trying to truly "solve" the issue of alignments.
but also can you answer them yourself?

@TW, what do you think about this? Keyser is essentially saying that if Rat is scum, she is buddying/defending him in a similar manner to how I buddied/defended Keyser as scum in Watcher Wanted (link for anyone interested to that game: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=77119). As you, Irrelephant, and Keyser will all recall, as scum in that game most of my ISO revolved around Keyser, and I chainsaw defended him by attacking people who attacked him (e.g., 2.781/Huntress). To quote Keyser, my strategy as scum in that game was to use Keyser as a springboard to attack and scumpaint any townies who attacked him. Keyser is claiming that may be happening again in this game, except this time it is Rat who is buddying/defending him.

Do you think that is likely to be going on here -- do you think town!Keyser is being buddied/defended by scum!Rat? Does Rat's treatment of Keyser's slot seem similar to how I treated Keyser in Watcher Wanted, where Keyser was town and I was scum? Or do you think the interactions between Rat and Keyser are more likely SvS?

In short:

most likely: SvS
second most likely: town!labby / scum!Keyser
then: scum!labby / town!keyser
probably never: TvT

@TW,

Why would town!Rat chainsaw defend scum!Keyser in these two posts thugh?

how do you read Key's entrance to the thread btw? I wanna try and sort him as quickly as possible so I can comfortably resume quoting The Usual Suspects and burninating scum.

Was the “I wanna try to sort Key as quick as possible” supposed to be an excuse for asking Left to post reads?

No?
but it def feels that way
OR it feels like your question to Lefty was just an excuse to show off your great town motivations.
Which one do you pick?

I don’t like the previous post either (the one I joked about). It’s prob not directly scum motivated, but it feels a really safe and non-personal way of questioning someone.

What’s your take on Soze so far? Is the ‘I thought it was just two goons’ and then the break down of DrJ/Rat following that line of thought something you think they’d do/are capable of as scum?

You know, sth like that could prob be faked by a 5-year old.
Possibly younger

It kinda feels like you didn't want to appear useless so decided to write

anything

that might appear helpful without actually considering if it makes sense to ask about that.
Do not do it like that. If you want to do sth, you can comment on the stuff:
-I wrote about duck,
-keyser wrote about me&DrJ,
-DrJ wrote about me/keiser
-or w/e.
Just pick a wagon and go with it, there’s no need to be wary here

I agree they could simply be scum together. But if one of them is scum and one of them is town, scum!Rat and town!Keyser seems far more likely to me than scum!Keyser and and town!Rat.

first off, from my site its more likely scum defends town and town defends scum than scum defending scum.
scum would defend town, obviously, for anti-spew and bad associations
town defends scum, because, first off, they aren't worried about associations because obviously they don't know peoples alignments and are not informed, thus they only can go off what they feel. Second off, they can have a townread on someone and defend them right? im not saying this is whats happening, im saying its a possiblity.

for me, based on what i have seen, its probable TvS in one way or another then S v S
and maybe bare minimum TvT with 2 people just going at it with defense fest?

@TW, earlier you said you would present your full case against scum!Keyser if one of your townreads requested it.

I'm one of your townreads, so I would like to take you up on that. I need to case Keyser again myself, but I need you to help me understand how you have come to the conclusion that Keyser has more scum equity than Labrat.

Perhaps I need to skim through some of Keyser's scum games? My only experience with Keyser is Watcher Wanted, where he was town.

this is good and bad(i feel more good than bad)

good: wants to see a full case on keyser, and also realizes that they don't have experience with scum keys so they should go read.
bad: continues the labrat tunnel and thinks that its weird that TW feels keyser more liekly scum than labrat.

@Labrat, what are your thoughts on The Worst and Keyser at the moment?

good question, NAI in practice.

g r o o a n

my reservation is I have some spicy tells on keyser which I believe are working really well. as soon as I name them I become unable to use them again

are you sure you can't take my word for it or read it from his content?

I see. Is your scumread of him based entirely off of his content from this game, or is it in part a meta read based on other games you have played with him? Would I need to read his other games to be able to see these same tells that you are seeing from him?

And have you played with scum!Keyser before in other games?

same as above but without the bad.

We'll, I'm off to bed
Hoping town does the right thing and votes creature

It will flip scum, I'm 99% sure

Lcp


Also @tw what 521 page monstrosity is that?!

Yes, that's why I asked TW about it as well. I don't intend to read all 521 pages of Heroes Wanted, but I feel like reading a portion of it could hopefully help me to understand TW's meta read of Creature. That's why I would like TW to narrow down what portion of that game would be most beneficial to read.

lol this post

Like volxen who just came here to fart and left

So now I am scum because I asked TW about another game of yours because it might help me to read your slot?

You don't seem to have a genuine interest in solving this game.

VOTE: Creature

this is a very quick turn-around and quick-mis-interpret, due to creature not even calling you scum in that post?
"like volxen who just came in, farted, and left"
and you get
"now im scum because i asked a question about your game"


{enter Eragon}

TL;DR(IM STILL EXPECTING YOU TO AT LEAST SKIM THE WALL YOU LAZY BOIS)
Things I like:
-going back and forth on their own posts
-truly trying to solve
-asking other people questions and giving a detailed explanation on what they want
-towny parts of it(you can read the wall)
-good/nuanced(using this b/c its what I’ve heard its described as) reads
-staying consistent with their reads
-good questions
-‘want’ to solve

Things I dislike:
-hard-tunnel of rat
-saying a LOT OF WORDS to say the same thing
-GODDAMN ANGLESHOOTING HOW HARD IS IT
-reaching for straws a little on Rat
-asking other people questions but not answering their own question
-quick return on creature and fmpov a mis-interpretation.

conclusion:

the good outwieghs the bad, and the nuance, the questions, the consistency, and the trying to solve are all good towny-tells. I don't however, feel as confident in this as people(Irrelephant) are and i don't see any reason for him to be that strong of a townread, albeit i do see towny pings, there are some things i find i bit wolfy.
Still

Town

: slightly above creature

{volxen}
{creature, Doc J, tw}
(lefty, irrel}
{keyser, lab}


NOTE: i am not labeling these because i do not feel confident in most of the reads yet, and the strengths of them are skewed by that but for now. (for example, my brackets show that Volxen is my strongest tr by far and close to locktown, yet i don't quite feel that confident}
so its just
{strongest townread}
{next strongest}
{next}
{weakest}

basically im happy with any of the bottom 4 being lynched, but if you so choose creature/doc J. to be lynched i wont neccesarilly complain( i will complain about TW)

What if the team is {Lab, Creature, TW}?

-Kor (to both)

It really hasn't been very long since the game began. I don't get why you seem so convinced Creature's scum already. Also I don't think he really does the lurking thing as scum anymore.

Fck, just noticed that there’s less than a day left xd

VOTE: Keyser

I want to lynch him today. I still don’t like his interactions with Creature and the way he was going about TW the whole game was just weird imo.
I’ve got a half-finished reads on everyone on the computer at home, but there isn’t much time, so I’ll try to re-write at least part it on the phone. Sorry if it ends up being unreadable, I can't really do anything about that here


I find the way Keyser pushed TW during the game to be really off. He was perfectly able to TR me based on my emotional postings and he’s absolutely refusing to notice the same thing in TW’s posts, even though there’s way more of it and it’s way more obvious.
TW’s flip-flops are a really good example imo. Like his “I DON’T KNOW KEYSER” flip-flop on me, or the way he’s being paranoid about creature since quite a while, or even the way he refused to present his case on keyser for so long and was sulking later because he felt like he said so much. There’s so freaking much of it and it’s an obviously better argument than most of the scum-tells keyser has been posting so far.
It kind of feels like Keyser got frozen with his read on TW early on and didn’t want to change it or notice anything townie going on about TW because he was salty that TW managed to SR him right.
Keyser said multiple times that he’s trying to re-evaluate TW, so if he’s town and he was really trying to get over his bad feelings, he’d surely have noticed all of those town-tells. I mean, he was able to notice those in my posts, so why the heck not in TW’s?

I didn’t also get a good feeling out of the way he interacted with TW in general. He was SRing TW nearly the whole game, yet when talking about the other reads, he seemed to be treating him as a town-leader (kind of a weak attitude, still willing to sheep reads despite having TW as his SR and without bothering to change his read later).
It kinda feels like coming from a stressed scum, who has no idea how to interact with TW as TvS.

This gives me a rather decent SR on him rn.


I’ve got a rather decent catchup at home, but those are the posts I wanted to address a bit faster
Gonna post the rest later:

First thoughts when catching up:

Irrelephant seems to be really happy to town-read Voxel, which is kind of weirding me out.

My one thought without fully catching up is this seems like a towny volxen, unless he’s trying very very hard to improve his scumgame (no nuance there)

Improvement noticed too... would like to witness wider focus though.

is this you saying he's "improved scum" or that he's town?
It's theoretically possible this is his improved scumgame (and he's tryhard enough to get there) but it's a BIG jump from easy-to-lynch-d1 scum!volxen from WW

without nuance
haha to explain further he seems to really struggle as scum to come up with thought-out reasoning for his reads. His reads aren't perfect but the amount of thought that goes into them shows a lot about his alignment (I think he's almost certainly town here)

He’d have to be bullshiting hard for it to be a lie.

uhh im seeing a contradiction

you say "the happiness of the townread weirds me out" but also
you say "he'd have to be bullshitting hard to make this a lie" which means its a real read which is good right?

so its it wierd and overhappy or truthful and good?

It's weirding me out because there’s a lot of emotions in it
It’s prob more accurate to say that I strongly feel that the read is a honest one, thus analyzable, but I’m getting tinfoily every single time I try to get sth out if it

yes my bready friend.

I've played this set-up before , albeit from the opposite side, and it was extremely mind-game fun

Oof, that’s dumb, like, extremely dumb, but it’s giving me town vibes

I don’t think I’ve ever seen eragon meme so hard btw

few things i gotta settle with you
1. what's dumb?
5. i've never playe with you before(unless alt)
17. I meme hard alot, especially early.

The way you described your purgatory game, while saying that you were scum and it was fun, felt really sincere to me
That’s def not a good argument though, cuz it’s dumb as hell and easy to fake, but damn…

And I am an alt. We haven’t played a lot together, but prob enough for me to have a decent grasp of your playstyle

uhh I meant more along the lines of "why is not lynching -Lynch target- game throwing"

I was talking about creature gamethrowing in his conversation

Creature (4) - Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde, the worst, Keyser Söze, volxen

First, this is never all town, specially if I'm town.

All of them reaching to the same wrong conclusion simply never happens in mafia history.

That was kinda townie.

I don't think its that great of a conclusion, given the statistical approximation of at least one of them being scum simply by RNG

The fact that he takes his “scum-flip” into probability when talking about interaction reads is not sth I think often comes from stressed scum.

I can see this, although some semantics I noticed(using semantics to show its not strong and more just tinfoil) he used "if" as if he might not flip town even from his PoV?

I mean, I’m not really gonna argue about that, cuz it doesn’t give me a strong read either, but “saying that he might flip scum ” doesn’t make sense from town’s pov either
It felt like he was just trying to do sth while thinking of the other players, not only of himself, which I sort of liked, especially since if he’s scum, there’s quite a chance that he’d have to be telling the truth there

what did you like about the "Farting read"

I agree with the reasoning (cuz my thoughts about volx’s early posts were kinda similar) and the way he presented the read was just so bold
He could have been just sheeping me (or keyser cuz I think he said sth similar before) so it def wouldn’t have been difficult for him to fake it, but it was just so different than his previous non-commital posts, that I ended up liking it

You seem more impersonal/rigid/not sure what the word is in your recent posts... trying to decide if that's AI

Actually, that’s exactly the type of post I’d expect you to write in the third person
Are you trying to judge me or interact with me here? Did you do it on purpose?

And idk, it’s possible, but it’s not sth I did intentionally
It might be also caused by the fact that I’ve been only catching up lately cuz of stuff IRL, which generally tends to make me exhausted
My mind is also still cloudy today despite that I’ve been resting the whole day
But I don’t think my playstyle should have changed that much because of it

P.Edit
About the heaven lynch, I think I’d be fine with volx after all
That’s not personally my strong TR, but if he really is scum (I'm kind of tempted to believe in the TRs on him, but meh), that’s a very valuable flip to get (even if it’s a heaven lynch imo)
I really doubt that scum would just remain idle if they got such a wonderful opportunity to get rid of one of them to heaven and only 2 people (as far as I remember) seemed to strongly push them being town

1 - this comment about sending volxen to heaven even if scum is pinging me. Do you personally think he'll flip scum? Do you think using heaven lynches to sort is a good strategy in this setup?

No, I don’t think volx is likely to flip scum rn. His later posts were better and he’s strongly TR by my strong TR, which kinda makes me less confident in my previous read. He’s still a person I’m struggling to get a read on, but I feel that I should sort him as soon as possible, because he gives a lot of spicy interactions

Yeah, I do think sending not-obv town to heaven it is a valid strategy. A bit more in a 15p than in a 9p, but still it makes a lot more sense to do that than to simply send the most townie player there
You’d be basically wasting a cop check and a full day of discussion

It shouldn’t be relied on too much, but I think the risk is worth it here

1 - this comment about sending volxen to heaven even if scum is pinging me. Do you personally think he'll flip scum?

tbh, if Volxen did flip scum in heaven I would look at you (you are a type of scum-player to white-knight his scum teammates to high heaven and not bus)

man, you’re either a genius or just suck at interactions
it smells of SvS so god damn much
How are you so confident that Irre’s scum meta from the lovers game would be valid and he isn’t bussing in here right now? Seriously, no carefulness, no hesitation, nothing?
If it was a joke, it didn’t make me laugh

Now the question is: would Keyser make this towncase on a townie as scum? I think most of my scumread of Keyser came from lack of nuance/mutual scumread with at first/buddying vibes
If Keyser is scum here he feels confident that buddying with the right people will save his team, or he's scum with DrJ...

Maybe it's just eragon/creature/lefty

Of course he freaking would
Nearly everyone has been TRing DrJ before Keyser did it rn, so him changing his opinion rn is of absolutely no value
C’mon, you’re better than this, this logic doesn’t even make sense

but actually his case on DrJ was the first time this game he's been objectively very much like his town self, imo
reminds me of his Presidents play, finally
Not sure it's enough for anything resembling a strong townread but I think we already agreed not to lynch him today

And I really don’t like that change

:3

921 is a v v wolfy post

Wait, why?

Everyone will receive a Mafia Goon or Vanilla Townie role PM
The game cycles between hell phase and heaven phase, starting with a hell phase

@Manatee

lovely are you enforcing this rule via plurality lynching? <3

{quack quack}
{DrJ, volxen}
{Labby}
{Ausuka, Relly}
{Eragon}
{Keyser}
{Creature}

decent chance I am being Very Bad here but that's a block of 4 people i really want to be town

basically sorted by how likely I am to send them to heaven

chance I'm being finessed by Relly and he does read s/s with Keyser v much but also like.... keyser randomly reads as s/s with players out of nowhere even when they're t/t so it's kind of not a super reliable gut ping. Still if I'm being really bad it's in the Rel/Ausuka tier and means I'm wrong on Era.

I think the way Era is forming detailed reads comes from a town mindset before a scum mindset but there isn't anything there that's hard to fake as scum. I'm wrong on him before Keyser, and wrong on Keyser before Creature imo

Keyser can be town but I need a contextual meta influenced re-dive and will probably case him in.... hell 2? idk exactly yet

I feel ok rn

also: I propose either myself or Volxen for heaven 1 and will need a fair bit of convincing to send a lower read

Obviously volxen is a better pick objectively because Rel+I are a good duo to air dirty laundry abt Keyser but he's also like... probably a bit better at & more interested in mafia than I am in a realistic sense so.... Idrk

@LabRat you’re not TW
I have no play history with you
Why would I react the same way I react to you the same way with TW
Certain town tells/scum tells aren’t universal that can magically be applied to all players
There is nothing wrong with how I was suspicious with TW this game.
Even if it has put me in the s**t, I had to air it.

Awful vote LabRat.

Sadly Ausuka is still scum

I really don't think we should be lynching a 22 posting slot that's been vacant for nearly the entire day over people who have produced content who are readable. Even if Ausuka is scum she has two buddies we can lynch.

also allows scum an easy bus if it's deemed a burned slot / Ausuka's WIM is low

nah, for what it's worth I would governate that lynch

I really don't think we should be lynching a 22 posting slot that's been vacant for nearly the entire day over people who have produced content who are readable. Even if Ausuka is scum she has two buddies we can lynch.

UNVOTE:
That means today’s lynch is either Creature or me then (?)

Reading comments from the last few pages, we have the most “scum equity”, and are also being strongly linked as “scumpartners”.

LabRat and Eragon have turned on me (while Creature is in the process of being hung, stretched and quartered) so I’m forced to look at them for the last chapter.



Creature before the hammer...

I want to try not be completely useless this game

I don't feel that good about Eragon tbh

Always assume the worst when preparing for the next phase. Like do you have plans if I flip town. My wagon will be pretty sketchy when I do.

{volxen}
{creature, Doc J, tw}
(lefty, irrel}
{keyser, lab}


NOTE: i am not labeling these because i do not feel confident in most of the reads yet, and the strengths of them are skewed by that but for now. (for example, my brackets show that Volxen is my strongest tr by far and close to locktown, yet i don't quite feel that confident}
so its just
{strongest townread}
{next strongest}
{next}
{weakest}

basically im happy with any of the bottom 4 being lynched, but if you so choose creature/doc J. to be lynched i wont neccesarilly complain( i will complain about TW)

so you're more or less ok w lynching anyone in the game except me and volxy eh

right now...

yes.

i prefer to lynch in lefty(ausuka), irrel, keyser, and lab, but i wouldn't complain about lynching creature( for one my TR is decreasing, and for two it gives hella info) and doc J, i think they are town but its certainly not strong, so i'd much rather not, but if for some reason? ya'll decide to lynch them id be not sad

these 2

its basically anyone except tw/volxen with preffering not to lynch Doc J/creatures

I'm fine lynching creature/eragon
ausuka too maybe but would feel bad about it
keyser would be a compromise lynch at this point
I forget why I'm townreading labrat but I wasn't ever really scumreading them so not my preferred lynch

not drj, volxen, tw


also I had some quotes of things to respond to and then my internet got rid of them, gotta love technology. just pretend I responded to everything

I'm gonna aim for the long game.

Find one scum per hell phase
One town per heaven phase

Like what is actually the point of this post? I feel like it's supposed to be game-related content but it contains nothing except Creature saying "I'm going to try and identify who's scum and town" which literally everyone tries to do. If it was as easy as just "finding scum" town would win every game.

I feel I should

answer

LabRat01's post/vote:

Fck, just noticed that there’s less than a day left xd

VOTE: Keyser

I want to lynch him today. I still don’t like his interactions with Creature and the way he was going about TW the whole game was just weird imo.

What is scummy about my interactions with Creature? Is it because you think we're scum partners?

I’ve got a half-finished reads on everyone on the computer at home, but there isn’t much time, so I’ll try to re-write at least part it on the phone. Sorry if it ends up being unreadable, I can't really do anything about that here

I find the way Keyser pushed TW during the game to be really off. He was perfectly able to TR me based on my emotional postings and he’s absolutely refusing to notice the same thing in TW’s posts, even though there’s way more of it and it’s way more obvious.

I've seen scum-TW express a full array of emotions, so I couldn't hold up your emotional parameters against him and judge you by the same measuring stick.

TW’s flip-flops are a really good example imo. Like his “I DON’T KNOW KEYSER” flip-flop on me, or the way he’s being paranoid about creature since quite a while, or even the way he refused to present his case on keyser for so long and was sulking later because he felt like he said so much. There’s so freaking much of it and it’s an obviously better argument than most of the scum-tells keyser has been posting so far.
It kind of feels like Keyser got frozen with his read on TW early on and didn’t want to change it or notice anything townie going on about TW because he was salty that TW managed to SR him right.

I did admittedly become frozen: but it was because I'd given up on pushing his wagon. If both your t/reads and your s/reads are telling you you're wrong... most of the time you are wrong in my experience. If he's scum he's gonna enter heaven non-opposed now.

Keyser said multiple times that he’s trying to re-evaluate TW, so if he’s town and he was really trying to get over his bad feelings, he’d surely have noticed all of those town-tells. I mean, he was able to notice those in my posts, so why the heck not in TW’s?

Yeah, I thought he was driving scum agendas, but I concede he may just be a over-passionate townie.

I didn’t also get a good feeling out of the way he interacted with TW in general. He was SRing TW nearly the whole game, yet when talking about the other reads, he seemed to be treating him as a town-leader (kind of a weak attitude, still willing to sheep reads despite having TW as his SR and without bothering to change his read later).

Just because I don't t/read a player doesn't mean I won't listen to what they have to say. I'm impressionable, and open to being wrong.

It kinda feels like coming from a stressed scum, who has no idea how to interact with TW as TvS.

Frustrated town.

This gives me a rather decent SR on him rn.

1 - this comment about sending volxen to heaven even if scum is pinging me. Do you personally think he'll flip scum?

tbh, if Volxen did flip scum in heaven I would look at you (you are a type of scum-player to white-knight his scum teammates to high heaven and not bus)

man, you’re either a genius or just suck at interactions

It's a mere theory. It's either right or wrong - there's no genius or sucking involved.

it smells of SvS so god damn much

Scum between me and who?

How are you so confident that Irre’s scum meta from the lovers game would be valid and he isn’t bussing in here right now? Seriously, no carefulness, no hesitation, nothing?

It's a quick off-the-cuff theory, not a 1000 word Finger of Suspicion. Are you tryin to project the suspicion I should be having on Irrelphant?

If it was a joke, it didn’t make me laugh

Now the question is: would Keyser make this towncase on a townie as scum? I think most of my scumread of Keyser came from lack of nuance/mutual scumread with at first/buddying vibes
If Keyser is scum here he feels confident that buddying with the right people will save his team, or he's scum with DrJ...

Maybe it's just eragon/creature/lefty

Of course he freaking would
Nearly everyone has been TRing DrJ before Keyser did it rn, so him changing his opinion rn is of absolutely no value

I didn't change my read from scum to town on Dr J. He went from a low end town lean, to a top end town lean. There is no operatic scum motivation for me to do that. There was a developing/gradual change of read after a re-read and chat with Irrelephant.

C’mon, you’re better than this, this logic doesn’t even make sense

but actually his case on DrJ was the first time this game he's been objectively very much like his town self, imo
reminds me of his Presidents play, finally
Not sure it's enough for anything resembling a strong townread but I think we already agreed not to lynch him today

And I really don’t like that change

I tend to change my reads a lot. New information is supplied every page and after every flip. Get used to it.

I love lunch too

VOTE: Ausuka

PoE is a good place to vote right now.

POE, MY ASS, NO IT’S NOT
You’ll have to try hard to make me believe that you wouldn’t be able to get decent reads to push after the whole day has passed. What the heck are you even doing
And you don’t even have a TR on creature while a lot of people do SR him, so why did you even think of the idea to “PoE-lynch”?

VOTE: Eragon

There’s gotta be scum in the Watchmen

Imagine if it’s The Watchman Wanted vs Mafia

Is it a joke?

No, seriously, it feels like you’re either getting desperate and trying to think of bullshit that would save you and creat from getting lynched, or you’re trying to fake defending creat, so that you’ll look better if he flips town
Seriously, this is awful, those are not posts you should be making just before EoD
explain it please

Okay this is too scummy from Keyser

VOTE: Keyser Soze

Okay this is too scummy from Keyser

VOTE: Keyser Soze

AWOO

Fck, just noticed that there’s less than a day left xd

VOTE: Keyser

I want to lynch him today. I still don’t like his interactions with Creature and the way he was going about TW the whole game was just weird imo.

What is scummy about my interactions with Creature? Is it because you think we're scum partners?

The way you defended him when people were SRing him based on his meta felt off to me.
You you didn’t seem to know creat’s scum meta, yet you seemed really confident that pushes like: “he’s even worse as scum” or “he’s an easy read when you know how he plays” being wrong and creat being absolutely unreadable.

It did ping me as a possible SvS and you defending your scummate, but I wouldn’t be surprised if scum!you did this because you knew that creature is town and that all of those meta arguments were wrong anyways.

Yeah, you did make a post later in which you “threw your meta-read in the bin” after TW made that long post about creat’s scum meta, but it doesn’t really change anything imo.

I find the way Keyser pushed TW during the game to be really off. He was perfectly able to TR me based on my emotional postings and he’s absolutely refusing to notice the same thing in TW’s posts, even though there’s way more of it and it’s way more obvious.

I've seen scum-TW express a full array of emotions, so I couldn't hold up your emotional parameters against him and judge you by the same measuring stick.

Could you link me to a scum game like that? And could you comment on the emotional tells I’m TRing TW for? I could quote them for you if you want to

1 - this comment about sending volxen to heaven even if scum is pinging me. Do you personally think he'll flip scum?

tbh, if Volxen did flip scum in heaven I would look at you (you are a type of scum-player to white-knight his scum teammates to high heaven and not bus)

man, you’re either a genius or just suck at interactions

It's a mere theory. It's either right or wrong - there's no genius or sucking involved.

it smells of SvS so god damn much

Scum between me and who?

You and irre
But I guess I should take into account what TW said about you doing that on a normal basis…
It seemed rather legit :/

How are you so confident that Irre’s scum meta from the lovers game would be valid and he isn’t bussing in here right now? Seriously, no carefulness, no hesitation, nothing?

It's a quick off-the-cuff theory, not a 1000 word Finger of Suspicion. Are you tryin to project the suspicion I should be having on Irrelphant?

Now that I think of it, it might have been just your awkward way of interacting with the other players, but basically, yeah
I found it weird that you’d be so carefree to read irrelephant’s interactions based on a meta from a game, where he was basically forced to buddy his scummates.
It kinda felt as if you just wanted to distance yourself from him by reminding the other players that “irrelephant always defends his scummates” while he’s been bussing you half of the day here

Now the question is: would Keyser make this towncase on a townie as scum? I think most of my scumread of Keyser came from lack of nuance/mutual scumread with at first/buddying vibes
If Keyser is scum here he feels confident that buddying with the right people will save his team, or he's scum with DrJ...

Maybe it's just eragon/creature/lefty

Of course he freaking would
Nearly everyone has been TRing DrJ before Keyser did it rn, so him changing his opinion rn is of absolutely no value

I didn't change my read from scum to town on Dr J. He went from a low end town lean, to a top end town lean. There is no operatic scum motivation for me to do that. There was a developing/gradual change of read after a re-read and chat with Irrelephant.

I don’t really care about that tbh. The read wasn’t bad, but I don’t think you should be town-read for it
It was a post addressed to irre btw

but actually his case on DrJ was the first time this game he's been objectively very much like his town self, imo
reminds me of his Presidents play, finally
Not sure it's enough for anything resembling a strong townread but I think we already agreed not to lynch him today

And I really don’t like that change

I tend to change my reads a lot. New information is supplied every page and after every flip. Get used to it.

Same here, it was addressed to irre.

I was VT

Creature's entire dayplay recently has been orientated towards saving himself.

His vote and push on me has been completely devoid of substance and wasn't real. It was an easy compromise lynch because nobody townread my empty slot, Creature pushed that like an actual read. Now labrat says "I'll stop pushing you if you vote Keyser" and he goes and does exactly that immediately by saying "oh Keyser's recent posts wouldn't come from town lol."

Hanging anyone except him today is just a huge mistake.

Like yeah Keyser's vote there wasn't the best but from what he said afterwards it seems likely that he was townreading Creature there hence why he doesn't want that lynch - with less than a day left a compromise lynch does make some sense. And like 991 was a joke and I really don't think it's scum indicative at all.

wrt/ 954 I haven't exactly read the entire game but just because town emotion seems obvious to you doesn't mean every townie is going to interpret it in the same way - I do think TW is capable of faking emotions as scum and a fluid train of thought, and looking at 429 honestly I don't even see why scum can't fake that.

I think it is very rare to be "salty that (somebody) SRd you right" and I also don't get the impression Keyser is that kind of person. And again you interpreting those posts as town tells really does not mean that everybody has to.

wrt/ 1047; you don't need to be an extensive expert to know about Creature's meta; you can simply look at recent games in which he blurred the line. And a lot of people are just strongly against meta in general without any background knowledge of the player being discussed.

the lovers game thing was incorrect, yes, but that doesn't mean his intentions behind bringing it up were malicious; it's perfectly reasonable that he just saw the game, saw Irre buddying his buddies, and reporting his findings without thinking to check too much, since it was an off-the-cuff theory as he puts it. FTR there was a problem in that game with a town player not realizing the setup was Lovers so it's definitely possible the same happened to Keyser.

ew keyser what
what is the AtE on this and last page
do you *want* to get lynched
honestly right now the case labrat is making on keyser is all basically true about eragon except eragon has basically none of the towny moments keyser has, and I think there are worlds here where keyser is town
feels like eragon is only itt when asked, and hoping to just gather little enough attention to survive the day phase.
idk keyser is not my strongest scumread and if lab+creature are the wagon I think I'll probably pass for now
creature has done next to nothing all day, still fine with his lynch

DrJ where's your head at
Ausuka you should place a vote

LOL WHAT?

[Eragon]

im just seeing quotes 4 days?

[Keyser Söze]

MY EYES

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

Thats it

Try to pick out his comments... if you can

I gather he has a slight scumread on soze by a skim, obv thats not my opinion atm

[Keyser Söze]

You just killed my mobile phone

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

It was half written. I'd have preferred to let him post it if he came back in the next 24 hours but tw wanted it now \_(^_^)_/
Hopefully it will be of use



Pedit, I posted it on a mobile phone

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

Tw I hope you haven't left for that 6 hour match of something now I posted it

[Eragon]

MY EYES

its like pouring hydrochloric acid directly onto my pupils without wearing anything protective

[Keyser Söze]

[Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde]

[the worst]

yeah it's hard to differentiate between content and quotes, ty though. I'll have a read a bit later.

[Keyser Söze]

I dreamed we quicklynched Labby and she was town

[the worst]

I'm fine w that, just need a better option!!
for post-game/posterity I actually did dream that Labby was hammered, admitted to being a mastina alt and flipped town

I thought you'd all find it as funny as I did

[ManateeDude]

Did you know?

Adult panda's can produce up to 20 lbs of feces each day

Votecount 2.03

Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde (3) - Keyser Söze, volxen, the worst
Keyser (2) - Ausuka, Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde
volxen (2) - Irrelephant, Eragon
Not Voting - LabRat0

Time till end of heaven phase 1: (expired on 2018-11-22 15:30:00)

[Irrelephant11]

V/la too intense
I see we have time so I’ll game solve tomorrow

Overgaming near holidays was a mistake

[Irrelephant11]

Also @mod: Keyser & Keyser Söze are the same lol

[Eragon]

As a side note this is probably one of my last games on MS that i’ll Join, but I will take PbR(play by request) so is there an MS discord that I could join?

[Keyser Söze]

i think volxen is town outside of meta

Yes, I am seeing this today in the heaven phase.
I always prefer hearing a player talk about their reads in real time.

who are the wolves on wagon tho

LabRat off it

didn't you townread them???

Initially town read, ended in PoE, back to town read for short while and now a solid scum-read in my heart and head.

Dr J
Keyser
Volxen

Eragon
Ausuka

Irrelephant
TW
LabRat

is this order to heaven or townreads?
if townreads, uhhh
why is doc J higher than you?

A combination of preferred order entry into heaven and tiered reads list. In reality, I'd prefer to see all my t/reads/leans into heaven before stepping foot in there myself.

I'll explain it D3.

can you at least give a short summary?

What's been going on is alot of distancing/anti distancing attempts, chainlinking players with their scum teammates, scumslips, forced town reads, discrediting and false bravado.

Yes, forced TMI town reads.

Plus, you town read them both... until now(?)

whose reads were forced and/or TMI?

I believe Irrelephant's and TW's.

[the worst]

VOTE: volxen
Sick as a dog now, I'll be aroundish but kind of feverish and trying to sleep.

[volxen]

i think volxen is town outside of meta

Yes, I am seeing this today in the heaven phase.
I always prefer hearing a player talk about their reads in real time.

who are the wolves on wagon tho

LabRat off it

didn't you townread them???

Initially town read, ended in PoE, back to town read for short while and now a solid scum-read in my heart and head.

Dr J
Keyser
Volxen

Eragon
Ausuka

Irrelephant
TW
LabRat

is this order to heaven or townreads?
if townreads, uhhh
why is doc J higher than you?

A combination of preferred order entry into heaven and tiered reads list. In reality, I'd prefer to see all my t/reads/leans into heaven before stepping foot in there myself.

I'll explain it D3.

can you at least give a short summary?

What's been going on is alot of distancing/anti distancing attempts, chainlinking players with their scum teammates, scumslips, forced town reads, discrediting and false bravado.

Yes, forced TMI town reads.

Plus, you town read them both... until now(?)

whose reads were forced and/or TMI?

I believe Irrelephant's and TW's.

@Keyser, out of TW/Irrelephant/Labrat, which 2 do you feel the most confident about being scum? TW and Irrelpehant? Just wondering where you are at with those 3, since we only have to be correct about 2 of them to win the game. Who is your top pick to send to lynch on Day 3?

[volxen]

VOTE: volxen
Sick as a dog now, I'll be aroundish but kind of feverish and trying to sleep.

What's going on here? I thought we all agreed to send Dr. J to Heaven.

Get some rest and feel better though.