Mini Normal 2041 [Game Over]

[skitter30]

VOTE COUNT 2.12

DrDolittle (5)

- DVa, Nako, Kokichi Oma, Almost50, OkaPoka

OkaPoka (2)

- Sephiroth, DrDolittle

Mewtaph (1)

- PenguinPower

PenguinPower (1)

- Gamma Emerald

Not Voting (2)

- ofrhz, Mewtaph

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-11-24 22:00:00)

Mod Notes:

[OkaPoka]

what are you talking about? Are you dense on purpose? The wagon was clearly stalling, seph was going to unvote, a50's didn't plan to hammer, and tchill and bef were willing to switch to any other wagon. all these statements are true. whats your narrative?

lmao ok

lets refute this baby so we can hammer you because im tired of this nonsense

]what are you talking about? Are you dense on purpose?

nice attack on character to open things up

The wagon was clearly stalling,

VOTE COUNT 1.14

BrightEyedFish (3)

- Mewtaph, PenguinPower, OkaPoka

OkapOka (1)

- Sephiroth

Tchill13 (1)

- Dva

Nako(1)

- DrDolittle

DrDolittle (1)

- Gamma Emerald

Kokichi Oma (1)

- Tchill13

Mewtaph (1)

- Nako

Not Voting (4)

- Joey_, BrightEyedFish, Almost50, Kokichi Oma

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-11-12 11:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- Sephiroth is v/la until Tuesday
- DrDolittle is v/la until Friday

note how nobody is voting PP here, that was posted on Nov 6,2018 12:04 A.M. (my time). You can check skitter's isos for verification

VOTE COUNT 1.15

BrightEyedFish (4)

- Mewtaph, PenguinPower, OkaPoka, Almost50

PenguinPower (3)

- Kokichi Oma, DVa, Nako

Nako(2)

- DrDolittle, BrightEyedFish

OkapOka (1)

- Sephiroth

DrDolittle (1)

- Gamma Emerald

Kokichi Oma (1)

- Tchill13

Not Voting (1)

- Joey_

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-11-12 11:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- Sephiroth is v/la until Tuesday
- DrDolittle is v/la until Friday

this is 11 hours later, PP gets three votes.

9 hours after that he has 5 votes.

there is a bunch of shuffling with the wagon but PP remains at L2.

Speed and counterwagon
Though the composition actually looks alright
Idk what deadline has to do with it

I'm not so sure now. My top 2 scum reads are on my 3rd scum read's wagon. Maybe they are trying to help PP.
I don't know, but maybe a little L-1 can push us along further.

VOTE: PenguinPower

then this happens. check bef iso for timestamps, but basically in less than two real life days (a bit more than one day) PP goes from no votes to L1.
oh and then A50 hits up the intent to hammer 6 hours after BEF gives L1.
So where is the clear stall of the wagon?
?
?
?

next on the docket:

seph was going to unvote

literally not true. He unvoted post A50 giving intent to hammer and post argument. Sephiroth pretty clearly wanted to wagon PP for info and had reasons for not townreading PP beforehand. He only changed to A50 after A50 got mad. Pressure on PP was still there when Seph was voting, all the way up until A50 "had an emotional breakdown."

a50's didn't plan to hammer

First PP was at L1 so anyone at anytime could have given their own intent to hammer if they felt like it to push it along.
Second, there was no indication on the second time A50 gave intent to hammer that he wasn't being serious until later he revealed it.

and tchill and bef were willing to switch to any other wagon

and being at l1 is being at l1. Sure they could have swapped but it doesn't undermine anything I've said about PP. PP was still very much at the threat of a hammer and in fact the desire/eagerness of tchill and bef to get someone lynched only solidifies my theory.


PP was a very viable lynch and if he flipped town there would have been very easy cover for scum to use for the lynch.
We have Tchill and BEF being lazy voters who were blatantly just voting out of apathy or self preservation instincts. If PP flips town and we go after PP wagoners, those two are the easiest lynches to sell ever as scum.

my narrative is the same thing ive been posting over and over. either pp is scum or we had a lot of scum already on his wagon who couldn't push it all the way through. don't know whats so hard to understand and why you want to die on this hill.

[DrDolittle]

np your play is so bad your character deserves to be attacked

[OkaPoka]

did you just straight out attack my character and fail to refute a single a point i just made?

wtf

[DrDolittle]

here's seph

I'm not sure I understand the most reasoning behind the start of current PP wagon but I'm okay joining it.

VOTE: PP

What an interesting list.

You believe that I am hard townreading one scum buddy, voting another, and that one more potential is bussing me.

How do you think read lists work? Because that isn't how my read lists work. My 4 top srs on D1 are under no requirement of being scum together. In fact my reads change quite a bit come D2 most of the time.

Why am I scum?

Oh that's -1,

unvote

poe. I don't think you've been doing anything to move the game forward in recent memory whereas the other slots have done more or made posts that ping me as town. I don't think the reaction to your wagon of just posting images helps your case. Not that it hurts it.

I don't understand the start of your wagon because I don't know your meta. Like the whole explaining vs saying reexplain thing seems kind of arbitrary but those who do have your meta feel it pretty strongly.

I'm voting you because you're the current wagon and I wagoning is always a good thing to do

[DrDolittle]

did you just straight out attack my character and fail to refute a single a point i just made?

wtf

yeah i really dont want to refute your points cause they are bug crap and anyone with two eyes can see its big crap but ill humor you

[Gamma Emerald]

Meh I don’t like DDL as much rn.

intent to hammer

[OkaPoka]

@Seph: Seriously now, what IS the purpose of your vote on PP? You don't want him to claim, and you don't want to move off him. You do agree that we don't have to use the full deadline, but you won't do anything to change the fact that we are indeed exhausting all the time we have for no good reason and with no real revenue. What's your plan here? Are you hoping for a lol!hammer w.o. a claim, so you can accuse the poor player who inadvertently placed it of being scum, perhaps? Or maybe you are waiting for a scum partner to lay the hammer and then you will protect them by saying they didn't realize it was hammer and still accuse >me< of rolefishing???

See? too many possibilities, none of them is good. And you're not even explaining your stance (about being on PP wagon but not wanting him to claim). So I ask again: WHAT is the purpose of your vote being on PP??

@PP: Intent to bloody HAMMER. CLAIM PLEASE.

Wagons are good for information and he's one of my scum reads. I don't need any further reason to have my vote on him and I don't think any of the conjecture you threw at the wall above changes that for me. I agree that we don't have to use the full deadline but that doesn't mean I want to do what you are doing, which appears to be trying to rush any wagon towards a claim even if you think the player is town. You know damn well its anti town as fuck to be calling intent to hammer and demanding a claim from one of your town reads. The fact that you need to paint this as black and white, like we can only lynch someone immediately or we can wait til the end of deadline and get a lolhammer is absurd. Is there no world in which you think its possible for an organic lynch to appear within the four days we have remaining? Is there no world in which the wagon on PP actually gives us valid information about other slots, outside of demanding a premature claim? Stop trying to paint this as a dichotomy between deadline lynch and lolhammer. Thats just not reality and you know it.

My point is that YOUR stance is extremely scummy since you consider him to be town. Why do you want to force a claim from someone you think is town? Why would you vote him and give intent to hammer if you think he is town rather than trying to move us towards a different wagon WITHOUT him claiming? There is no world in which your stance towards PP and his wagon comes from a town mindset.

[DrDolittle]

also here's your bullshit on a50: in

@Metaph: So, let me try again.. one more time..

I agree PP should not (and probably will not) be lynched today. What I want is for people to move off him and start voting other people, and then I won't be pressuring him for a claim. I have no particular interest in knowing his role, but if that's what it takes to get people to MOVE ON WITH THE GAME, then that's what I HAVE TO DO.

Can you help me move the game forward by convincing people to UNVOTE PP and join any other wagon 9or start their own if they must)?? Because if we wait for 4 more days, starting a "new" wagon would be hard as hell, simply because anyone who votes someone who does not already have a wagon on them would be dubbed "vanity wagoning", so we'd be like "either lynch X or Y".

My first analysis on PP wagon came n like post 1200+

[DrDolittle]

Meh I don’t like DDL as much rn.

intent to hammer

ill deal with you in a bit

[OkaPoka]

which came after

@Seph: Seriously now, what IS the purpose of your vote on PP? You don't want him to claim, and you don't want to move off him. You do agree that we don't have to use the full deadline, but you won't do anything to change the fact that we are indeed exhausting all the time we have for no good reason and with no real revenue. What's your plan here? Are you hoping for a lol!hammer w.o. a claim, so you can accuse the poor player who inadvertently placed it of being scum, perhaps? Or maybe you are waiting for a scum partner to lay the hammer and then you will protect them by saying they didn't realize it was hammer and still accuse >me< of rolefishing???

See? too many possibilities, none of them is good. And you're not even explaining your stance (about being on PP wagon but not wanting him to claim). So I ask again: WHAT is the purpose of your vote being on PP??

@PP: Intent to bloody HAMMER. CLAIM PLEASE.

[DrDolittle]

??????? so what

[DrDolittle]

also what does 1106 try to convey

[DrDolittle]

i need to clear my head. im seriously baffled at your play. it's like playing the chewbaca defense.

[DrDolittle]

which i guess in essence does work in a way

[OkaPoka]

it means that PP had a period of time in which he was at l1 and intent to hammer him was legit?

1106 means that Seph was voting PP and was serious about it?

Do you know what chewbacca defense is? If so can you link me what you think I'm chewbaccai'ing?

[DrDolittle]

a period of time like 100 - 150 posts?

[DrDolittle]

im just going to let seph answer his own reads

[OkaPoka]

you can still try and argue that the wagon was stalling and you can argue how im employing the chewbacca defense while you are waiting for sephiroth

[DrDolittle]

here's the chewbacca. You want to paint me as scum. You're argument is that my claim of PP's wagon state is false (irrelevance). Not to mention your argument is false. (wookies don't live on endor they live on kashyyyk). And you repeatedly clutter the thread with garbage.

[Gamma Emerald]

What even

[DrDolittle]

you can still try and argue that the wagon was stalling and you can argue how im employing the chewbacca defense while you are waiting for sephiroth

even if i concede wagon was going "strong" for like 150 posts, the wagon was clearly stalling from A50's 1130s to 1275 (skitters VC) until my new counter wagon.

[Nako]

I don't know about

DrDolittle

very much but I think he would try more as mafia and less as town at this point,

Gamma

, what do you think?

[OkaPoka]

You can't be serious with that analogy.

I'm sheeping my townreads on you and building off my previous scumread of you. My argument on your claim is not irrelevant because you are just making things up and attacking me for who I am rather than what I am arguing for. There's no need for that as town, but when you are painted into a logical corner then the only way out is to attack me personally.

What garbage have I cluttered the thread with? If you are going to content police then content police, but you are only trying to content police me, and only content police things that you specifically disagree with and file that as garbage.

My arguments are not irrelevant, they are directly relevant. Just because they are framed on the premise of PP does not mean I can't develop reads on people other than PP. Your attempt to destroy my credibility on PP is a factor on why I'm scumreading you.

I guess the wagon stalled? But your quote and timeline does not match the timeframe I'm focused on in my analysis. I'm focused on when it grew and got to L1 with the whole intent to hammer thing. But also the lack of enthusiasm for the wagon suggests to me that either scum was tapped on the push or PP is scum and scum didn't want to rejuvenate the game. You are kinda contributing to my case here.

But you should for a fact, know that I'm focused on the build up part. I've been repeating that over and over to you, my quotes and stuff are from that period of growth. That's the important part here. PP was an easy lynch to sell for scum, so why didn't scum go ahead an push it? Why did we end up with two counterwagons of both town? That's the fundamental question I'm posing for people to answer.

[Almost50]

also what does 1106 try to convey

Since I made that I'll tell you what in conveys. It spells "I don't want to hammer you,

but if you don't claim I will

." Clear and simple. I wanted PP to claim something or another. Let's say he claims Doctor. He would have been my check target. Doctors have no guns, so I can verify he is not a goon fake claiming.

Now if he claimed Cop I would have hammered still, because I don't see a Cop alongside a Gunsmith in a 13 players normal.

If he had claimed Vig I would have NOT checked him, because my check will return "has a gun" which he already claimed to have, and I won't know if he's for real or if he's a goon faking that way.

Claims are good for certain PRs to decide their night check. If I was a Tracker I might have went after someone who claims to be a VT to verify they didn't act at night, or catch them lying.