Micro 831: Great Idea Mafia (Game Over)

[Rob14]

Simeon has been prodded. Since this is a third prod, I am immediately seeking replacement. He can reclaim his slot by posting here before I find one.

[davesaz]

Hmm, I was kinda hoping the answer on multiple actions would be no. Though yes was the expected answer TBH.
That means nobody is mechanically clear.
I could climb up on a pedestal and say I'm actually trying to solve and so I should be obv, but y'all

should

see that anyway.
Micc is a little sketch for trying to use my votes as evidence. VCA is pretty useless in a setup that's more likely to be MB than not.

[Micc]

I could climb up on a pedestal and say I'm actually trying to solve and so I should be obv, but y'all should see that anyway.Micc is a little sketch for trying to use my votes as evidence. VCA is pretty useless in a setup that's more likely to be MB than not.

Are you really trying to solve tho?

You've made votes and you've said you think I'm scum here but you haven't put any reasoning down for any of it. You called me sketch for giving my opinion and presenting things that happened as evidence. You misrepresent my evidence as being VCA when that's not what it is. You ignored my attempts to engage regarding kittenlicks during day 2 and you again decided not to engage me about why my blundered night action makes me scum.

I feel like I'm the one trying to engage and solve here not any of you. Kind of crazy to think considering I've been regretfully mia for big stretches of this game.

[Rob14]

Bicephalous Bob has been prodded. Since this is a third prod, I am immediately seeking replacement. He can reclaim his slot by posting here before I find one.

[Rob14]

Bulbazoor replaces Simeon.

[Bulbazoor]

Well, I wasn't exactly sure what exactly I was going to replace into. But I am here now. I will be catching up probably tomorrow. But if I can today, I will give my thoughts on the current state of the game.

[davesaz]

You ignored my attempts to engage regarding kittenlicks during day 2

Umm, I'm fairly certain we had a conversation. You may not have been satisfied with it, and it's true that I didn't reply back to your last post on the subject, but I don't think it's fair to refer to it as not engaging. I also asked KittenLicks some things, and was satisfied with the answers. The point of that whole sequence was to challenge what seemed to be townreads both from and to her which were too easy.

I have the same problem with your night actions, in particular N2, as I had generally with Maru. I feel like a town role would know 100% what they should do with it. Or at least not do something 100% wrong. Especially after you had pointed out to KittenLicks that Simeon's role was 50/50 town or mafia -- if your role is what you claimed, it's hard to believe that you could point out the percentages to someone else and then forget them within a couple RL days (going by memory on that). There are plausible reasons you might have ignored the percentages and made that same play anyway, but you don't raise them as a defense.

It's pretty weak. Everything this game is weak. Dinner is ready so I need to stop typing.

[Micc]

Spoiler:

I'm leaning toward KittenLicks reaction to the lynch being a possible partner.
I have to get up early in the morning and can't do much except run the workshop all day, so hoping to see some discussion on this by the time I'm back.

I had this thought briefly but KittenLicks being unsure of supersaint mechanics lead me away from it. If your partner is a supersaint you probably look that up before he’s claiming in the game thread and it would be an impressively wierd thing to fake. Similarly investigating the universal Miller is not an interaction that I think a scum player thinks of. I’m leaning pretty strongly towards town on KittenLicks right now.

Might a scum player fake that as a way to appear not scum? Or be worried about a watcher so claim a plausible visit?

Sure those things are possible. Anything’s possible. I’m just here trying to make reads based off what I think is most likely to be true. Youre not actually playing a game of mafia if you read everything as null right?

How about you offer your read on KittenLicks and back it up with evidence?

Here's the extent of the conversation. It starts with you asking for discussion on the point you presented. I respond with my opinion which you immediately challenge by calling wifom. I rebuttal while trying to move the conversation back towards productivity, and then you don't respond. I don't see any indication you had a real interest in having a open minded discussion about the topic.

I clearly didn't think my night action through regardless of my alignment tho right? I didn't just decide as scum that claiming a bonehead action was the right play to make. If you're saying town me is more likely to take the action seriously then I guess my counter is that scum me has a lot more to lose because its clearly an easy way to get caught. I can honestly say as town that it doesn't feel like my night action in this game matters at all so I didn't put much thinking into what the best play was. I know that's pretty ugly and I'm not happy to admit it, but it's what happened.

[Micc]

I'm not exactly sure I'm ready to write off Bob as being town with his claim being the biggest reason cause that should really be NAI, but it's where I'm at.

I haven't moved much from this opinion. davesaz, if you're actually interesting in interacting lets make this the topic. Do you think my opinion is reasonable or not?

[davesaz]

Bob’s claim is totally NAI. There are two alignments with that role, and he could just as easily have something completely different. The way he was saying multi ball from the start always struck me as weird. It’s the type of thing that is true but why is it worthy of discussion? When questioned about use of the role he falls back to a more survivalist approach which is ok on a personal level but less than stellar from a town POV.

[Micc]

I looked when someone brought it up earlier and just looked again. there is one treestump and it's town. Where are you finding a second?

I'm also curious to what you think the pro town approach is in his position?

[davesaz]

I would have sworn I saw two, but you're right there is only one. The 2nd mention is a role that makes treestumps.
Probably saw it in the context of a greater/est idea where it could be composed from two cards...

I posed this as a question: Is town better off in a 2v1 with a stumped advisor, or a 3v1 where we don't have anyone confirmed? In the 3v1, all 3 town need to agree on who is scum, or we no-lynch and scum get to choose whom to remove for the LYLO. In a 2(+1) v1 we get a classic LYLO with an added voice. Numbers wise stumping "seems" better.

I would not be willing to play the stump

if that helps the discussion at all. It doesn't suit me at all -- I'd probably give losing advice. Or at least I'd be worried it's losing.
I don't expect

anyone

to

like

the idea. But I expected there to be open and frank discussion on its merits. I might be wrong, and if that's the case I expected a more open response on why I'm wrong.

[davesaz]

The point about claiming the role being NAI is also valid. If claiming it makes town unwilling to lynch that player until it's too late, it's a potential winning strategy for scum.

[Rob14]

Persivul replaces Bicephalous Bob.

[Rob14]

Vote Count #3.1 (unchanged):

Not Voting:

Micc, Persivul, Bulbazoor, davesaz

With 4 players alive, it takes 3 to lynch.

V/LA:

None.

Deadline:

(expired on 2018-11-24 07:30:00)

[Bulbazoor]

Yo Persivul. Long time no see

[Micc]

I posed this as a question: Is town better off in a 2v1 with a stumped advisor, or a 3v1 where we don't have anyone confirmed? In the 3v1, all 3 town need to agree on who is scum, or we no-lynch and scum get to choose whom to remove for the LYLO. In a 2(+1) v1 we get a classic LYLO with an added voice. Numbers wise stumping "seems" better.

Yeah I get this. But if the consensus is that Bob's town, and Bob knows he's town, then stumping him has no upside and only downside.

There doesn't seem to be consensus that Bob's slot is town. I could see forcing them to stump in that case. I guess I'll put a little more effort into to reading him in the earlier days tonight. I still want to say that no solo scum player decides to claim treestump as the last person in mass claim, but I don't know if I'm willing to gamble the game away on that.

Looking forward to hearing from the replace in's. Hopefully in a timely manor. I'll be pretty busy all week with holiday stuff after tomorrow night.

[Micc]

Yo Persivul. Long time no see

When can we except a post with your thoughts on the game?

[Persivul]

Vote Count #2.3 (FINAL):

Maruchan: Micc, Bicephalous Bob, Simeon, Maruchan (4)

My eyes must be going bad. I went through Maruchan's ISO twice and don't see him voting for himself.

[Persivul]

Yo Persivul. Long time no see

Yeah it's been over a year.

[Persivul]

FOS: Micc

[Rob14]

Fixed VC 2.3. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Rob14]

davesaz has been prodded.

[Persivul]

1. There was a day kill D1.
2. The only roles that can do this are town 1X dayvig and mafia 1X dayvig (please correct me if that's wrong, but that's all I see).
3. No one has flipped or claimed town dayvig, so there's a mafia dayvig.
4. Mafia dayvig killed shortaru.
5. shortaru had already claimed town compulsive childkiller.
6. Compulsive childkiller is not at all dangerous to scum.
7. Therefore, shortaru was killed for his reads.
8. Aside from Tazaro, shortaru scum read Gamma (who is now dead and flipped town) and ... Micc.

I'm really not vibing Micc atm.

I could totally lynch him.

Micc, who is scum?

[Micc]

Shortaru died because he hammered a supersaint not because of a day vig.