Mini Normal 2044: Game over!

[Garmr]

@everyone, what's your favourite book

Karl Marx's the capital

Oh what do you think of Karl Marx?

[Lady Angel]

Votecount 1.8:

Bji: 2 (Clemency, Garmr)
Texdoeshalo: 3 (bji, Sashaddin, ReaperOfSouls)

L-2

ReaperOfSouls: 2 (Irrelephant11, Skitter30)

Not voting: TexdoesHalo, Creature

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 will end on December 1st, 2018 at 3:30 PM PST or 11 days, 22 hours, and 20 minutes from this post.

The following players have not posted since the last votecount and will be prodded if they have not posted before the next one, unless they are V/LA: bji, Texdoeshalo, ReaperOfSouls (V/LA)

[bji]

Votecount 1.8:

Bji: 2 (Clemency, Garmr)
Texdoeshalo: 3 (bji, Sashaddin, ReaperOfSouls)

L-2

ReaperOfSouls: 2 (Irrelephant11, Skitter30)

Not voting: TexdoesHalo, Creature

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

Day 1 will end on December 1st, 2018 at 3:30 PM PST or 11 days, 22 hours, and 20 minutes from this post.

The following players have not posted since the last votecount and will be prodded if they have not posted before the next one, unless they are V/LA: bji, Texdoeshalo, ReaperOfSouls (V/LA)

This vote count is not correct.

I am going to re-read the game and do some analysis of Day 1. Will be posting sometime later tonight.

[bji]

OK I've re-read the game as critically as I can. I can only do this as a wall because there is alot of evidence to present. Sorry.

I see consistency from everyone except Raya in this game. Of course there are marginal inconsistencies from everyone (myself included) except the lurkers who have had so little content as to not even be readable. But Raya is head and shoulders above the rest. I would like to convince town to run a Raya slot wagon please.

I will start it off with my vote:

UNVOTE: Reaper
VOTE: Creature

My reasoning:

- I didn't like how Raya volunteered that she had already played with Skitter and Flubber (post 55) after RVS voting Skitter without having mentioned it until I asked someone (Sash, Clemency? Can't remember, and I neglected to write it down in my notes and am too lazy to go look it up) about who they had played with before. She popped in to volunteer this info. Something about volunteering to answer a question not asked of her as an opportunity to volunteer that she had already played with those two and to make a point that she would be "starting fresh" so as to reduce interest in her association with them, doesn't sit well with me. I will repeat that the Flubber slot ended up being a lurker, which also fits into my general gut feel that we have at most one active scum playing - and Flubber could easily be the other scum. Tex replaced in and replaced right out. The slot is very dirty.

- Raya's sequence from post 60 to post 79 seems a little off to me. Clemency and I had almost no exchange before her post 50 where she said she had some thoughts but wanted to hear his defense first. Then post 79 included conclusions that only could have been drawn

after

all the stuff that happened between Clemency and I (and to some degree, her) in between post 60 and post 79. This suggests to me that she already had a position she wanted to state (Clemency and I being TvT) at the time she posted 60 and then it just happened that the posts from 61 to 79 supported that position; I didn't see her appear to change her viewpoint on either me or Clemency any time in the middle or to ask any questions that indicated that she was waffling on a viewpoint. So how could she already know at post 60 that she was going to declare me and Clemency TvT by post 79 unless she already knew we were both town?

- She town read me for my initial push on Clemency, then switched to using the same push on Clemency as a reason for a scum read on me, and then when challenged on it, just changed her mind. At every step of the way she appears to be trying to avoid confrontation/criticism much more so than actually scumhunting or holding any conviction on her previously stated point of view.

- Post 108 has some very artificial-sounding logic in it: "Clemency's reaction as I said seemed genuine, I'm just not sure from which alignment". This makes no sense: Clemency's reaction was frustration at being the target of an early push. This frustration can only be genuine if from town - because town can be frustrated by feeling like they are going to be mislynched early, especially when they feel that other town are the ones driving the mislynch. But if you're a scum!Clemency, then why would you be frustrated at being the target of a push? You're playing a game where you expect to be a target since you

are

the scum, I wouldn't be frustrated by town suspicion, but I would certainly be trying hard to allay it. So I just don't think that the argument that "Clemency's frustration was real but I can't tell which alignment it is coming from" is plausable. Raya sounds more like scum trying not to be committal; to be seen as expressing opinions and ostensibly "trying to figure out the game" but actually not realizing the way that waffling on that opinion doesn't make sense when argued from a town point of view.

- Raya post 216 tries to back up some of her reasoning by claiming that Clemency would be easy to get a mislynch on, and that "his reactions in general could easily be interpreted as scummy". At no point did I see even Raya claiming that any of Clemency's reactions could be "easily" interpreted as scummy (at most, some of his reactions left question marks for her), so I don't see where this conclusion comes from. There is no justification for any of this given that Clemency was mostly town read and the worst that people had were slight scum leanings on him. I don't think anyone else would have argued that Clemency's reactions could easily be interpreted as scummy or saw him as an easy mislynch target. The logic here just doesn't make any sense and doesn't even seem like it could have come from Raya who had previously devoted so much attention to Clemency and me. Had she already lost interest in the game and couldn't put forth the effort necessary to put forth a believable town position here?

- Skitter post 221 says that Raya played a scum game with him where she did pretty much exactly what she did this game -- call a TvT argument (which she knew was TvT because she was scum) and then replace out early. How much of a coincidence can this possibly be?

Every one of those points could have some town motivation too, obviously, but when put all together I just think there is too much evidence of questionable play from Raya.

[bji]

My position on other players:

- I am naturally suspicious of lurkers in this game -- I can totally see Raya replacing out because she felt like she was getting no support from her scum partner. I have seen exactly this same thing before. So Reaper and Texdoeshalo are right now just mired in that suspicion for me.

- Clemency feels town. Every bit of his play makes sense from the perspective of a town player who just wanted to have a fun/easy game, he harked back to his previous game a few times with descriptions that make me believe that it was very low on confrontation (especially for him!) and that this is the kind of game he is seeking. And since some people - especially me - are making this game more serious/confrontational than he was hoping for, he's probably just lost interest.

- skitter30 feels very town. Lots of well reasoned and patient analysis of the game.

- Sashaddin feels kind of town. Seems a little too noncommittal to me, and doesn't seem to want to get involved in any contentious issues. My suspicions are based mostly on his lack of any apparent scum hunting effort. Could just be play style. He came from the same game that Clemency liked so maybe he was another player who prefers the "no confrontation, no serious pushes, just keep reading the game and making guesses" play style.

- Irrelephant seems very town to me. Feels alot like skitter30 - well reasoned, thoughtful, genuinely looks to be trying to figure out the game.

- Garmr's exchanges with me and others look pretty town. I notice that his attitude towards me seemed to shift after I reminded him of our previous game, and now he is just looking for reasons to pick fights with me and call me scum. I think he wants me to be lynched regardless of whether or not I am scum. To be honest I feel the same way but I think I am trying harder to play to a town win for this game than to exercise a grudge. Yeah I know everything I just said is going to piss Garmr off to no end and he's probably going to swear at me some more, but I'm just calling it like I see it here.

Aside from his interactions with me, I think Garmr has used reasonable analysis when discussing other people's positions.

Raya/Creature I already talked about in my previous post.

So that's everyone.

[Clemency]

aw, i kinda wanna be more serious and confrontational too but i just lack the skills to do that and i don't wanna make a fool of myself
now to read your essay

[Clemency]

welp i'm just gonna keep sheeping the confident players
i can't really refute #353
UNVOTE: Reaper
VOTE: Creature

[Creature]

@everyone, what's your favourite book

Karl Marx's the capital

Oh what do you think of Karl Marx?

Rhe dude is funny

I disagree with him mostly

Still enjoyed reading his book

[Creature]

welp i'm just gonna keep sheeping the confident players


welp i'm just gonna keep sheeping the confident players

Hope you'll be as happy as you are rn to sheep me on a confident scumread.

[Creature]

Yeah the game is lurky and usually it's easier for scum to taje control by being the first to blame others

[Creature]

penis

Oh I love that game!

Penis

What tf did I just read?

[Creature]

Wtf you're both male

[Clemency]

imagine being straight in 2018

[Garmr]

@everyone, what's your favourite book

Karl Marx's the capital

Oh what do you think of Karl Marx?

Rhe dude is funny

I disagree with him mostly

Still enjoyed reading his book

Lol I felt the same with mein kampf. A book I love is the art of war. You could even technically apply it to mafia.

[Creature]

imagine being straight in 2018

RIP

[Creature]

@everyone, what's your favourite book

Karl Marx's the capital

Oh what do you think of Karl Marx?

Rhe dude is funny

I disagree with him mostly

Still enjoyed reading his book

Lol I felt the same with mein kampf. A book I love is the art of war. You could even technically apply it to mafia.

Apparently the wicked have the most interesting personalities, they don't hide behind a mask only pointing problems with no solutions like many modern leftists do.

[Creature]

I have the Sun Tzu book, just need to start reading it.

[Creature]

Obviously don't misinterpret me here, I don't defend anyone here.

[Clemency]

oh boy lets not get political

[Creature]

Better not, I don't think my opinions are very respected here.

[Creature]

Shall we talk about criminology instead?

[Garmr]

@everyone, what's your favourite book

Karl Marx's the capital

Oh what do you think of Karl Marx?

Rhe dude is funny

I disagree with him mostly

Still enjoyed reading his book

Lol I felt the same with mein kampf. A book I love is the art of war. You could even technically apply it to mafia.

Apparently the wicked have the most interesting personalities, they don't hide behind a mask only pointing problems with no solutions like many modern leftists do.

Obviously don't misinterpret me here, I don't defend anyone here.

I lean right very slightly very close to the centre so I'm pretty open to concepts. I feel like discussions are often shut down because of feelings. But yeah there's a lot of extreme left leaning people on the site and I'm hated by a few of them despite having no ill feelings towards them since they are people to and everyone is different.

[Garmr]

Shall we talk about criminology instead?

We can continue talking about the art of war if you want or in game stuff like some reads?

[Creature]

Heh better return to the game

Still glad I'm not the only one against the general leftism.

[Clemency]

Heh better return to the game

Still glad I'm not the only one against the general leftism.

i'm pretty left-leaning myself and i totally agree