Overkill 2: A Blood-Thirsty Stallone Themed Game

[Wisdom]

im saying you have no case
Not that you voting him is scummy
Youre way too defensive
Guilty conscience?

[DrewVa]

im saying you have no case
Not that you voting him is scummy
Youre way too defensive

Guilty conscience?

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Wisdom

Feel free to OMGUS me.

No way does town!you ever scumread me for this.

[Wisdom]

VOTE: drewva

[DrewVa]

im saying you have no case
Not that you voting him is scummy
Youre way too defensive
Guilty conscience?

Nancy you dont really have a case on majiffy.

Why are you voting him then?

This post makes 0 sense coming from you.

I almost want to revote you

Nancy you dont really have a case on majiffy.

Because shes town
I doubt she can fake moonlogic so believably

gah i cant stand this backwards logic

VOTE: majiffy

Wisdom/Profil/Majiffy scum team?

[DrewVa]

VOTE: drewva

Your Majiffy vote seems like a distancing vote. Both you and Profil had really strange reactions to it.

Why else would you attempt to discredit a case I made, backing up

your

vote?

And when I call you out on that, I’m scum because of it? Tell me how you’re actually town here?

[RCEnigma]

Do you really think a whole scumteam is gunning for you? Or is it just because they don't like you right now.

[Amzela]

@Farside: Amzela is my gf, not Drixxs, and I think I would rather let her answer any questions directed at her. With regards to the playstyle change, it's experimental, and recent. :)

@Farside
Hi hello welcome. I do not know how to play Mafia online, only in person, but if you have issues with that you can take that up with A50. No offense taken at all, I know I'm slow.
However, I don't know if that can account for my off-ness. I'm always... off.
:]

Amz can you state a reason or reasons for your vote?

@Wisdom: Why are you townreading Amzela?

Im not

I asked her if shes townreading drewva
I want to know why she voted me

I'm less watching her and more watching Cerb watching her.

@BuJaber, @Wisdom - I honestly just bandwagoned (sheeped?) with the first couple of posts. So much time has passed and a lot of information has come up (DrewVa), so I have to recheck.

UNVOTE:

But seriously, I hope RR is keeping track and seeing what I'm seeing.

This scares me.

The amount of people SK-reading people is staggering.

@Cerb - how shy is amz? At what point should we consider inactivity to be AI?.

I am pretty shy but I should become more active the more comfortable I get with people. However, given the fact that this is a newer medium to me, I'm not sure how I'll act around here. I do believe that once I figure out my system, you should see an uptick in posting.
On the other hand, a lot of these posts seem to have happened overnight and Cerb can attest to my need for massive amounts of sleep. That I do read the forums and post at work where I have access to a not-laptop. So pardon my slowness and call me out. Appreciate the help.

@RR: How would you feel if I got Amzela lynched?

@Wisdom: Why are you townreading Amzela?

Still catching up on the overnight posts, but its early and I'll forget this if i don't respond now.

I would feel the same way i would if Varsoon, or Chickadee, or anyone else I've chatted with enough to grow fond of were to be lynched this early: sad that I don't get to play with them more, relieved that I won't have to deal with the mental strain of being objective about someone I actively want to remain in the game, but also disappointed in the survival skills of anyone who can't avoid being lynched on D1. Also a little guilty for throwing her into the deep end of this particular forum.

-Cerb

I am a strong, independent woman who don't need no man!
That being said, if hiding behind Cerb or RR doesn't get me lynched, I will gratefully and most definitely hide behind the two.
:]

[RCEnigma]

My thoughts about this last 8 pages: the tinfoil hat is back, babyyyyyy. Wisdom and DrewVa's drama finishing with both voting the same slot seems staged. But I'll leave the tinfoil hat saved for later.

Addendum: FL are openly flaunting as a scum pair.

[RCEnigma]

My thoughts about this last 8 pages: the tinfoil hat is back, babyyyyyy. Wisdom and DrewVa's drama finishing with both voting the same slot seems staged. But I'll leave the tinfoil hat saved for later.

Addendum: FL and Hebi are openly flaunting as a scum pair.

Ebwop

[DrewVa]

Do you really think a whole scumteam is gunning for you? Or is it just because they don't like you right now.

One of them definitely is. Explain a 180 from someone who’s vote I not only supported but strengthened.

Profil demoted me specifically because of it.

You don’t find anything at all suspicious about any of this?

[RCEnigma]

Possibly.

How did you strengthen his vote? What was his case on Majiffy in the first place?

[DrewVa]

Possibly.

How did you strengthen his vote? What was his case on Majiffy in the first place?

He never gave any reasons but I have never ever seen Wisdom attempt to discredit a case from.someone who had sheeped him - as any alignment and if I doubted my initial sr on him - due to his Majiffy vote seeming like a decent one to me - his suddenly sr me for it , after apparently tr me for being “moonlogicy” in his mind, makes 0 sense.

In what world, does town ever view questioning him about discrediting my case on

someone HE was voting

, scummy?

[ruru]

votecount

With 26 alive it takes 14 to lynch.

RCEnigma (3):	Thor665 (61),	BuJaber (262),	Tails (477),
BuJaber (3):	DrippingGoofball (609),	Varsoon (614),	Majiffy (631),
DrewVa (3):	BrightEyedFish (192),	Gamma Emerald (268),	Wisdom (652),
hebichan (2):	Reasonably Rational (57),	CheekyTeeky (69),
profii (2):	Fortian (111),	pinturicchio (450),
Wisdom (2):	hebichan (435),	DrewVa (651),
Majiffy (1):	Malakitty (42),
DrippingGoofball (1):	davesaz (56),
BrightEyedFish (1):	Alchemist21 (386),
Reasonably Rational (1):	profii (407),
CheekyTeeky (1):	farside (440),
Not voting (6):	Creature,	Toogeloo,	Chickadee,	Flavor Leaf (416),	RCEnigma (438),	Amzela (656),

(expired on 2018-12-04 02:30:00) remain.

[DrewVa]

Possibly.

How did you strengthen his vote? What was his case on Majiffy in the first place?

Okay I just found ths.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8&start=25.

I was curious as to why Wisdom was voting Majiffy, so I ISO’d a towngame of his where his play was entirely different than it is here.

He has objectively speaking, the worst ISO in this game. There is 0 game content of any kind - which contrasts sharply with the game I’m linking.

so

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Majiffy

P.edit Better link.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=200

As contrasted with this: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=17371

I think this is scum, sheep me.

[Reasonably Rational]

The amount of people SK-reading people is staggering.

Why do you care? Without any scum flips anybody scummy is scum. Only when groupscum flips you can then say something like "This guy is scummy but because of reason x he is not groupscum with flipped scum, he might be scum of a different faction or SK"

Even if you are right about someone being SK you are helping scum by pointing out 3p. You shouldn't care about SK at this stage. Scumhunt.

I can give you at least two examples where scum v SK ended up helping town that I witnessed myself. I'm sure most of you have examples also.

@Cerb - how shy is amz? At what point should we consider inactivity to be AI?.

Well, I was going to say that I'm not going to speak with her with regards to her activity/play/what you should expect from her, but it seems she showed up to say things.

@RR and anyone else who thinks they know:

What is your scum range? How would you characterize the difference between your town meta and scum meta?

It occurs to me that for someone like you (someone whose posts are kinda emotionless) the line becomes rather blurry.

But tails here claims you're already out of your scum range.

Yeah, Tails shouldn't actually have any idea of what my scum range is....BUT that's not what he said, I don't believe. He seems more certain that we're in our town range, than out of our scum range, which is a position he can have given that he *has* seen us as town. With that said, the actual answer to your question is: I'm fairly unaware of any difference between town meta and scum meta. I'm hyper-self-aware of my posting as both town and scum. I'm more likely to be sloppy and say something that will stir up shit I don't want to stir up as scum(that is, I'll probably review a post more before making it, and/or run controversial things by my partners/other head if hydraing) than I will as town, but I am still pretty damn aware of those things. It's sort of like as town I'll notice something while posting, and post it anyways because fuck it...while as scum I will probably still post it, but I might tweak/polish it a bit depending on feedback. Scum!me does a lot to actively help town solve the game(which is why I've been quite successful in my limited time as 3p here I imagine), and comes up with plans and shit to solve the game, the same way town me does...but those plans don't work because of information only scum are privy to, or because of fundamental flaws in reasoning that town is making that I don't correct, which I would correct as town.

So, honestly: The best way to tell if I'm out of my town range is probably to massively BoP me(if i'm engaged and paying attention) with regards to mechanical gamesolving things. There's always subjective bits to such discussions, like the fundamental setup spec someone has might be flawed in my opinion, but if everything mechanically seems to go a certain direction, and I'm not agreeing with a guaranteed win type scenario, that doesn't require assuming unproven things are true(because I will never simply accept that a mason pair is a mason pair, for example, until one flips/mod confirmation comes in some way or another), or I'm resistant about the evident flaws in a plan...then you might be looking at a scum!me.

Of course, to find that you need to be at least as good at finding mechanically optimal solutions to games as I am, and as good at arguing in favor of your purely logical position as I am, because otherwise it's unlikely you'll actually realize the path I'm leading town down doesn't actually work if assumption x y or z is incorrect, and I'm too certain those things are true....and there really aren't very many people I've played with(if any) who pair those two things as well as I do.

@Amz: Real talk though, Wisdom asked you a specific question about your read on DrewVa, and you ignored it. Why no response at all ,not even a "i'm too busy to actually have an opinion on them yet." All you did was back off the vote on Wisdom, but gave no content.

I'm pretty sure you're really just a bit lost right now, but I don't know if it's because you're completely clueless town or newbscum too afraid to actually push anything.

-Cerb

pedit: Right, Drewva's majiffy case thing, and the wisdom thing: 1) your repeated apparent assertion that because Wisdom was scum in the game he was linking, his point that you can't keep using a single game and the fallout as a way to dodge all negative interactions with him, is bullshit. The fact that he was scum does not change the fact that no, you actually can't keep hiding behind that. With regards to the Majiffy thing: I don't think I've played with Majiffy much, I haven't read the game you posted, nor will I, unless he gets to like L-1 and I need to make a hammer decision, but I really doubt the content generated in what, 36 hours, is enough to establish a firm read on whether he's behaving abnormally. Give it a few more days and if that trend holds, I can see it(which is why you probably shouldn't have pushed this so hard so quickly,b ecause now he's alerted to it!), but right now there simply isn't enough evidence that whatever is different about his play, if there is a difference, it's just static.

[Majiffy]

Oh Varsoon too

Damn I wanted to be cool and lead the charge

You can still take the reigns if you have some actual reasons to elaborate on why other folks should be voting there
This is my worst challenge when it comes to mafia
It's really hard for me to get others to see shit that I consider obvious

That sounds like work and I don't really effort mafia anymore

[DrewVa]

votecount

With 26 alive it takes 14 to lynch.

RCEnigma (3):	Thor665 (61),	BuJaber (262),	Tails (477),
BuJaber (3):	DrippingGoofball (609),	Varsoon (614),	Majiffy (631),
DrewVa (3):	BrightEyedFish (192),	Gamma Emerald (268),	Wisdom (652),
hebichan (2):	Reasonably Rational (57),	CheekyTeeky (69),
profii (2):	Fortian (111),	pinturicchio (450),
Wisdom (2):	hebichan (435),	DrewVa (651),
Majiffy (1):	Malakitty (42),
DrippingGoofball (1):	davesaz (56),
BrightEyedFish (1):	Alchemist21 (386),
Reasonably Rational (1):	profii (407),
CheekyTeeky (1):	farside (440),
Not voting (6):	Creature,	Toogeloo,	Chickadee,	Flavor Leaf (416),	RCEnigma (438),	Amzela (656),

(expired on 2018-12-04 02:30:00) remain.

Profii, why is RR your #1 scumread?

[Amzela]

@RR, Cerb
Haha I'm lost in the quotes and didn't realize the question was about DrewVa. Also, I could be neutral, do not forget that.

@Wisdom
I don't like it but I have to double-check. I also get confused on whether Nancy or DVa is responding sometimes, but I think that just means I need to check the threads a bit more carefully.
That being said, I do feel some aggression? How to analyze that to figure out what side they're on, I have no idea/haven't had time.

[Amzela]

Also, I know people were buddying up but I have no idea what that means/if that actually has any effect on the game/shitposting?

But can I put in my request for a buddy as well?

[Majiffy]

Okay I just found ths.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8&start=25.

I was curious as to why Wisdom was voting Majiffy, so I ISO’d a towngame of his where his play was entirely different than it is here.

He has objectively speaking, the worst ISO in this game. There is 0 game content of any kind - which contrasts sharply with the game I’m linking.

so

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Majiffy

P.edit Better link.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=200

As contrasted with this: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=17371

I think this is scum, sheep me.

Oh you're trying to meta case me on a game where a bunch of Torontomeet people were playing. That's cute on its own because it's bad meta play. But sure, I'll bite. Why don't you check out how much I tried after Day 1 when everyone I wanted to play with replaced out?

[DrewVa]

The amount of people SK-reading people is staggering.

Why do you care? Without any scum flips anybody scummy is scum. Only when groupscum flips you can then say something like "This guy is scummy but because of reason x he is not groupscum with flipped scum, he might be scum of a different faction or SK"

Even if you are right about someone being SK you are helping scum by pointing out 3p. You shouldn't care about SK at this stage. Scumhunt.

I can give you at least two examples where scum v SK ended up helping town that I witnessed myself. I'm sure most of you have examples also.

@Cerb - how shy is amz? At what point should we consider inactivity to be AI?.

Well, I was going to say that I'm not going to speak with her with regards to her activity/play/what you should expect from her, but it seems she showed up to say things.

@RR and anyone else who thinks they know:

What is your scum range? How would you characterize the difference between your town meta and scum meta?

It occurs to me that for someone like you (someone whose posts are kinda emotionless) the line becomes rather blurry.

But tails here claims you're already out of your scum range.

Yeah, Tails shouldn't actually have any idea of what my scum range is....BUT that's not what he said, I don't believe. He seems more certain that we're in our town range, than out of our scum range, which is a position he can have given that he *has* seen us as town. With that said, the actual answer to your question is: I'm fairly unaware of any difference between town meta and scum meta. I'm hyper-self-aware of my posting as both town and scum. I'm more likely to be sloppy and say something that will stir up shit I don't want to stir up as scum(that is, I'll probably review a post more before making it, and/or run controversial things by my partners/other head if hydraing) than I will as town, but I am still pretty damn aware of those things. It's sort of like as town I'll notice something while posting, and post it anyways because fuck it...while as scum I will probably still post it, but I might tweak/polish it a bit depending on feedback. Scum!me does a lot to actively help town solve the game(which is why I've been quite successful in my limited time as 3p here I imagine), and comes up with plans and shit to solve the game, the same way town me does...but those plans don't work because of information only scum are privy to, or because of fundamental flaws in reasoning that town is making that I don't correct, which I would correct as town.

So, honestly: The best way to tell if I'm out of my town range is probably to massively BoP me(if i'm engaged and paying attention) with regards to mechanical gamesolving things. There's always subjective bits to such discussions, like the fundamental setup spec someone has might be flawed in my opinion, but if everything mechanically seems to go a certain direction, and I'm not agreeing with a guaranteed win type scenario, that doesn't require assuming unproven things are true(because I will never simply accept that a mason pair is a mason pair, for example, until one flips/mod confirmation comes in some way or another), or I'm resistant about the evident flaws in a plan...then you might be looking at a scum!me.

Of course, to find that you need to be at least as good at finding mechanically optimal solutions to games as I am, and as good at arguing in favor of your purely logical position as I am, because otherwise it's unlikely you'll actually realize the path I'm leading town down doesn't actually work if assumption x y or z is incorrect, and I'm too certain those things are true....and there really aren't very many people I've played with(if any) who pair those two things as well as I do.

@Amz: Real talk though, Wisdom asked you a specific question about your read on DrewVa, and you ignored it. Why no response at all ,not even a "i'm too busy to actually have an opinion on them yet." All you did was back off the vote on Wisdom, but gave no content.

I'm pretty sure you're really just a bit lost right now, but I don't know if it's because you're completely clueless town or newbscum too afraid to actually push anything.

-Cerb

pedit: Right, Drewva's majiffy case thing, and the wisdom thing: 1) your repeated apparent assertion that because Wisdom was scum in the game he was linking, his point that you can't keep using a single game and the fallout as a way to dodge all negative interactions with him, is bullshit. The fact that he was scum does not change the fact that no, you actually can't keep hiding behind that. With regards to the Majiffy thing: I don't think I've played with Majiffy much, I haven't read the game you posted, nor will I, unless he gets to like L-1 and I need to make a hammer decision, but I really doubt the content generated in what, 36 hours, is enough to establish a firm read on whether he's behaving abnormally. Give it a few more days and if that trend holds, I can see it(which is why you probably shouldn't have pushed this so hard so quickly,b ecause now he's alerted to it!), but right now there simply isn't enough evidence that whatever is different about his play, if there is a difference, it's just static.

You’re probably right wrt Majiffy. I just found a towngame of his and was struck by the contrast. I’m unfortunately not strategic as town. Wrt to Wisdom, he quoted that post of him being scum in FH, so fair game for me to reference it, I think. However, Wisdom’s bizarre reactions to me today wrt to my casing Majaffy and him scumreading me for questioning him about him, is uberscummy to me. It makes no sense, unless he was distancing. Profii’s “demotion” of our slot - solely based on that is also strange.

Why this weird reaction from both Wisdom and Proffi, about my Majiffy vote?

[RCEnigma]

Possibly.

How did you strengthen his vote? What was his case on Majiffy in the first place?

He never gave any reasons but I have never ever seen Wisdom attempt to discredit a case from.someone who had sheeped him - as any alignment and if I doubted my initial sr on him - due to his Majiffy vote seeming like a decent one to me - his suddenly sr me for it , after apparently tr me for being “moonlogicy” in his mind, makes 0 sense.

In what world, does town ever view questioning him about discrediting my case on

someone HE was voting

, scummy?

When someone they think is scummy jumps on the wagon.

[DrewVa]

Okay I just found ths.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... 8&start=25.

I was curious as to why Wisdom was voting Majiffy, so I ISO’d a towngame of his where his play was entirely different than it is here.

He has objectively speaking, the worst ISO in this game. There is 0 game content of any kind - which contrasts sharply with the game I’m linking.

so

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Majiffy

P.edit Better link.

https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... &start=200

As contrasted with this: https://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.p ... B%5D=17371

I think this is scum, sheep me.

Oh you're trying to meta case me on a game where a bunch of Torontomeet people were playing. That's cute on its own because it's bad meta play. But sure, I'll bite. Why don't you check out how much I tried after Day 1 when everyone I wanted to play with replaced out?

I think you’re misreading my read on you that game. You were blatantly obvtown in that game. That was the basis of my metacase on you.

[Majiffy]

Ya ur prolly rite you caught 3 scumzos right out tha bat nice job

[pinturicchio]

Yeah, Wisdom's reaction makes perfect sense to me. You're tunneling hard and not seing the issue with a clear head. I would say Wisdom has been pretty townie, but the tinfoil hat doesn't allow me to